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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 01-08-2004, 01:12 PM:
 
For Christmas this year, I received a new 24" Flat screen tv to add to my room and this tv came with all component connections, AV connections and S Video. This is the first TV Ive had with these inputs so I went to the local Electronics monopoly (Future Shop) and went for my search of component video cables and an S-Video cable for my laptop. I went in and inquired about these items and I was immediately lead to the most expensive cables in the store. Gold plated, THX certified, blah blah blah! Upon asking what kind of hole this would place in my wallet I was told $50 (and they were on sale this day like they were doing me a favor) just for the component cable. The S-Video another $40. After taking another look around a noticed a few other home theater items like a giant power bar with all the trimmings going for about $500.

My question is why does all this crap sell for so much? Is there really something]special about this stuff that they can justify the pricing for this stuff because for $500 this powerbar better be giving me a blowjob too. Im wondering what the unit cost is for the stuff to make and why people give in to paying so much for this crap. Thanks

P.S. The cables were Monster cable.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 01-08-2004, 02:04 PM:
 
Ditto your frustration, Dino. I've noticed that Radio Shack here in the states is carrying fewer "garden variety" coax patch cords in favor of their own brand Monster-type cables. I have two HD ready sets not yet on HD feeds, and I personally can't see any difference between the high end and normal cables.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-08-2004, 02:27 PM:
 
There was a bit of discussion of "high-end" cables in this thread.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-08-2004, 02:41 PM:
 
THX certifies _cables_?

The fancy cables are primarily a scam for dealers. Since home electronics items (TV sets, DVD players, etc.) are often quite price-competitive, dealers often don't make much money on them. If the dealer sells you a DVD player for, say, $100, he might be making $10 on the sale. If he can sell you a $40 set of cables that cost him $20 (if that), he's just tripled his profit. Thus, the need for him to sell "Monster Cable," etc. Camera stores do the same thing; they'll sell a $500 camera at a low profit and then try to convince the customer to buy a $25 UV filter at a $10 profit "to protect the lens."

For all intents and purposes, there's little difference in most cables above the "really cheap" variety. Some have better quality connectors and/or are less likely to fail, but that's an issue of construction quality not of the ability of the cable to carry the signal. Speaker cables are a bit of an exception, but most homes have short runs, anyway, and adequate cables can be found in the electrical section of any hardware store.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-08-2004, 03:13 PM:
 
Ah yes Adam, we never did get those orgasmic cables for our A/B test. Kimber audio knows the kind of crap they are shoveling.
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 01-08-2004, 04:16 PM:
 
I've had friends BRAG to me how much they spent on speaker wire connectors (one spent 800 bucks on cable with speakers maybe 8-10 feet from the amps!)

I think I read that lampcord wire works as well as the best at a fraction of the cost. Just make sure you pay attention to the correct phasing 9positive, negative) since the only real drawback is that the wire isnt color coded.

As far all this THX video/audio cable nonsense is concerned, industrial/professional suppliers sell conectors and wires that at the very least match and often exceeds the most expensive home theatre wires in performance for a third or less of the price.

And as far as the speaker wires are concerned, these friends brag about how much "clearer" the sound is. They are self-delusional. I've heard no improvement or difference. This is the same principal as those who hear MUCH greater clarity of a CD by taking a sharpie and drawing along the edge. You can convince people of anything. The only thing clearer here is their bank account!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-08-2004, 04:40 PM:
 
In the video world, cables matter every bit as much, if not more than in the audio world. The quality of cable is a function of the bandwidth of what is being carried on it and for how long.

Then there are the connectors on the end too. If you were to A/B cables you can see the difference quite easily as the quality of the signal goes up.

If you are dealing with just composite low-life signals...then most anything with a 75-Ohm impedance will do okay. It isn't a tough signal.

As you move up the ladder with higher frequencies...the cable quality (and connectors) start to come into play faster. This is true for digital and analog...you will be getting attenuation attributed to the cable.

However, if you are talking about a 6-foot component video cable with RCA connectors on the ends...that is about a $15US cable for a reasonable quality cable, which, if you think about it is three $5 cables joined together...not too bad.

Steve
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 01-08-2004, 08:37 PM:
 
You can make your own component video cables with some RG58 coax cable and RCA plugs. Just pick good quality RCA connectors.

Most of Monster & Kimber cables claims are pretty hard to believe and should be taken with a grain of salt. If there is any improvement, you would probably need a scope to see the difference.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-08-2004, 10:43 PM:
 
I don't understand why people don't go and buy 3 composite video wires (or a composite video stereo audio combo cable) to make their own component cables. No need for coax. Do people think that there is some sort of magical difference beween Composite and Component cables besides the number of wires needed? Hell, I use composite video cables and mono audio cables (same exact thing) to transfer the digital audio data from my DVD player, MiniDisc player, LaserDisc player, all connected to a simple and cheap Radio Shack A/V switcher. That way I've got super cheap digital audio switching and it never ever fails. I think perhaps some people are gullible morons. Did you know the Mann Chinese in Hollywood is wired with Monster Cable? I may have mentioned that in the other thread.
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 01-09-2004, 12:28 AM:
 
You can notice a slight difference in the color with Component Video. Ive noticed that there is less flaring (or whatever you would call it) and the colors are more natural. Not a HUGE difference and definitely not worth $60-$70 like they are here. Most DVD players cost that much nowadays. In most cases I can live with going to the dollar store and picking up a cheap pair of RCA's.

I agree with Scott's statement and it reminds me of when you go buy a computer or some more expensive electronics and they shove their warranty down your throat because thats where they make the money. When you go buy a stereo component they wont let you leave the store without harassing you for an hour to buy their THX CERTIFIED cables. It seems as though the guy that used to plug the Kimber cables would fit in nicely with those salespeople.

As for being THX certified, I think everyone knows the take on that. Then again if youre stupid enough to believe that with these cables, George Lucas himself will bow before your home theater, then you deserve to be scammed into buying this crap.
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 01-09-2004, 12:51 AM:
 

quote:

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Did you know the Mann Chinese in Hollywood is wired with Monster Cable?

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As does the Mann Village Westwood. When it was installed in the mid 80's, an article in one of the trades boasted that the Village's Monster Cable (including installation) ran around 50 grand! Monster Cable was included on the lit sound poster that listed the components of the theatre (JBL stage, Cerwin Vega subs, BOSE surrounds, Monster Cable, 70mm 6 track DOlby, THX, etc). I think the subs and surrounds are all JBL now.

My digital link from my DVD player to Amplifier is an old cheap, very thin RCA cable. It works just fine.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 01-09-2004, 07:48 AM:
 
I'm running some 99 cent S-video cables that I bought from MAT Electronics. The same goes for 3-wire video/audio cables.

Just for a historical angle, I am running audio from my main amp over to my Dynaco Stereo 70 tube amp with a pair of RCA cables that came with an old Sony reel to reel tape recorder that I bought in 1970.

Used to have a roommate that bought a $90 roll of Monster Cable to hook to a pair of Yamaha speakers that were 5 feet from the amplifier. He would sit between the huge speakers and let them blast. The whole house rattled. He claimed that he could hear the difference. Eventually, I tossed his ass out the door. Kept his cables, too! BUT, I dont even use the stuff. MY system is wired with 14 gauge stranded lamp cord. Plain brown lamp cord. One wire is marked with a stripe in the molded plastic. It is always +.

My theatre sound is wired with solid 10 gauge wire that has a run of all of 20 feet. Why solid? Well, I was given about 300 feet of it. It is called 3-wire underground feeder cable with ground. I also used it to wire a 240v line 24 inches underground out to my shop building from the main house.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2004, 12:27 PM:
 
Ya'll have it wrong...

First off a RG-58 cable is a 50-Ohm cable...most video, like Component and composite is 75-Ohm cable so you would need RG-59 or RG-6 and the like.

As to something special about video cable...what makes it video cable is its ability to carry high frequencies without attenuation. Again, the higher quality the source signal (high frequency) the more attenuation a cheap cable will contribute (and possible other artifacts).

As to a multi-coax (or twisted pair) cable...it is essential that they are exactly the same length. Without that you will not get proper timing which will show up as poor color alignment and registration. So...three separate cables is not the same as a component triple cable (though they could be made with such precision such that there is no difference). Using audio cables for short runs can indeed work but they will normally attenuate the signal more than a proper RG-59 cable with a solid core.

Steve
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 01-09-2004, 12:42 PM:
 
Thanks for the correction Steve.

As for speaker wire, the stuff from Home Depot is pretty good.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-09-2004, 01:40 PM:
 
Brown lamp cord works best.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-11-2004, 03:55 PM:
 
Steve is VERY correct on this one for sure . Ahh, I can remember the days back in the late 70's when TV camera cable was well over 100.00 a foot .

Any of you that have component video inputs and are not using them even with some sort of decent component cables are missing out on at least three huge advantages including lower chroma noise, complete elimination of moire effect, and wider luminance bandwidth allowing for more overall picture definition. Of course if your set only has video bandwidth of 2 mhz you should be using the RF input anyway!

Buy hey if you all choose to go the inferior composite video route then I will also understand when you post that DLP looks better than film.

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-11-2004, 06:00 PM:
 
I did upgrade my included S-Video cable with my DVD player with a Monster 2 and the results were great. Sure, an AR cable may have done the same, but cables are definitely something to be concerned with a little bit. As long as the insides are good and it has good connectors (like AR or even Monster) it should do the job well. As far as speaker wire, I just heard the thicker the better. Right now I use Monster, but only because I could get it 50% off when I used to work at Best Buy. I remember having to push the sale of it, but I knew that I was feeding people a line of BS half the time (that's why I'm not there anymore). I do agree about using component over S-Video or Composite if it is available. The color and overall resolution do appear clearer when you take advantage of them. Essentially, it is transporting the same exact signal as S or Composite, but the separation is better. When the signals are sent in this seperate manner, there is less interference and distortion that can happen. Even S-Video is miles ahead of composite because it keeps color and luminence separate. Further, if you can do RGB connections, that's even better!

AJG
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-11-2004, 10:43 PM:
 
I don't know if it's Circuit City or Monster's marketing... but whatever...

I went in one day and got a hard sell for Monster's $25 telephone cord... said to ensure the best connection between my computer and the phone network... heaven help us if there should be anything wrong with the 3 feet between my (former) 56k modem and Ma Bell.

Guess we weren't supposed to consider everything between the other side of the wall and the modem at the other end, eh?


 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-11-2004, 10:54 PM:
 
Jack, you mean your internal house wiring phone lines don't have the "good" stuff? I am shocked!

Heck, when I remodeled my house, even the AC Romex wiring is oxygen-free copper by Monster!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-11-2004, 11:36 PM:
 
Wait a minute Phil, your wiring is oxygen-free copper by Monster? You mean you didn't get Monster's environmentally safe oxygen-free copper cable??? Shame!
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-11-2004, 11:51 PM:
 
Before we know it, we'll have hands free cell phone cords made by Monster to "ensure" the best cellular connection from our ear to the phone! I wanted to get a DVI cable for my new PC to LCD monitor, but all I found at good ole Best Buy was a Monster one for nearly $100!? Is a DVI cable really that expensive?

AJG
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 01-11-2004, 11:56 PM:
 
Adding to what Aaron mentioned, why doesnt Monster venture into the sex toy business? You never know when two women might need a "high quality digital connection" that any "analogue" toy could not offer!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-12-2004, 08:22 PM:
 
Dino,

Analog toys are still way better than digital !

You spell analog as "Analogue"????? What planet uses that sort of spelling anymore ? Thats the old english spelling isn't it? Or is that Old York, or ancient Roman? All those extra letters and such being posted are taking up all that extra bandwidth and such . Perhaps that spelling is why my analog toys are better than your analogue toys......

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-13-2004, 10:12 AM:
 
Yes, DVI cables are inherently expensive and the signal, even with the best cable can only be sent 15-feet.

$100 does seem a bit on the high side though. They are definately more expensive than any of the other "common" type of video cables...including 5-wire RGBHV.

On the up side...if you have a digital device, like your computer and you have a digital monitor...using the DVI output/inputs will keep you video signal in the digital domain and avoid D/A and A/D conversions.

If you ever do want your DVI signal to go a good distance...say over 50-feet...it can cost over $1000 for the equipment to pull it off.

Where I see DVI making the most impact is from computers to their monitors.

Steve
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-14-2004, 01:25 PM:
 

quote:

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Adding to what Aaron mentioned, why doesnt Monster venture into the sex toy business?

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Ahhh... the imagination runs wild. You can just see the packaging..

"Ensuring the best possible connection between the..."

Ummmm, well..... you get the picture!
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 01-14-2004, 03:05 PM:
 
Jay: Im wondering if any of the Photoshop talented members would have a little fun with packaging for a product like that. Im bet that would get alot of laughs around here.

Mark: Im not sure where I picked up the way I spell sometimes. I would say that its a Canadian thing but Im not sure how many of us canuckies actually spell like that. Or I could say its a Greek thing but I doubt thats it. You can all make fun of me as much as you want but AT LEAST........I dont spell like this. I dnt think im kewl enuf!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-14-2004, 10:40 PM:
 
Dino,
Just poking fun at that spelling. Nothing intended...or implied !!
Mark
 

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Posted by Matt Frankish (Member # 2131) on 01-16-2004, 03:41 PM:
 
If you want a good hard laugh, look at:

http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GBP&pf_id=1046&customer_id=PAA1657012104453QBHNOVPOKMMVGHHF

Yes, that is £900, or $1600 for a 3ft power lead. Incredible.
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 01-16-2004, 04:37 PM:
 
Ahhh more Kimber Cable propaganda......

Check out the Oak Cone Feet

quote:

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What do they do to sound and pictures?
Using Oak Cone Feet makes the sound more ‘solid’ and natural. Pictures appear sharper and clearer, too.

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