Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: My "VERTIGO" DVD went bad

This is topic My "VERTIGO" DVD went bad in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-14-2004, 11:01 PM:

I suddenly had the urge to watch Alfred Hitchcok's "VERTIGO" yesterday after I had mentioned the film in my Film Handlers forum thread on a question regarding the theatrical showing of "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS". After inserting the disc in my player, it was rejected as unplayable. I thought this was very odd because it played just fine when I bought the disc at the time it was released. After I watched the movie on that disc the first time, I never tried to play it until yesterday. When I examined the disc after it was rejected, it looked just fine and as good as new. After it was rejected by my principle player, I tired playing it on my back up machine and my computer and the disc would still not play on the two other payers. The "VERTGO" DVD was released by Universal Home Video and a friend told me today he had the same thing happen to him with his DVD copy of "SPARTACUS" which was also issued by Universal.
Do you suppose many of my other Universal DVDs might have gone bad too? I was very fortunate when one of my DVD vendors told me this afternoon he would be very happy to replace my defective "VERTIGO" DVD with a new copy.

One of the problems I had collecting laserdiscs was a defect called "Laser Rot". Do you suppose DVDs rot too? [Confused]

-Claude

Posted by Gilbert Travin (Member # 2138) on 03-15-2004, 02:15 AM:

Hi Claude

On the french forum
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/
I have readed a few posts talking about the "rot" phenomena. You can search on this forum and use an on-line translator if you do not read french... I beleave that guys have washed their dvd (with water+soap) and then they were all right for a few days, because the phenomena comes back [Eek!]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-15-2004, 08:27 AM:

Good grief. Here we go again! Just another reason why we should all get that DVD-X-COPY program and burns copies of all our DVD,and CD purchases. And wouldn't you know, the MPAA has taken 321Systems, the author of this DVD copy program, to court and has put a cease-and-desist order on them to stop the company from selling any more of their copy software because the MPAA claims it infringes on their member's copyright materal. Can you believe the chutzpah of these freakin people?

321Systems counters that making a single copy for the protection of a DVD that someone has already purchased is protected by the fair-use clause, just as making a single copy of a video tape, CD or a floppy disk as a means of backing up and protecting the original (your property) is perfectly legal and has been allowed by the fair use provision or years. And of course, the MPAA will loose, just as Universal/Disney lost their ludicrous lawsuit against Sony, trying to stop Sony and the electronics manufacturers from manufacturing VCRs, claiming the VCR was an instrument designed to help people infringe on their copyrighted material. What a joke.

Now this crap about preventing the owner of a DVD from making a single protection copy to protect his investment. Can you imagine, I have already purchased four versions of most of the titles in my collection and the low-life, bloodsucking leaching bottom scum feeders don't want me to make a protection copy of a DVD that I purchased and which in all likelihood, we now find out, will rot in a couple of years!

May a multitude of venonous fire ants cover their nipped and tucked, liposucked, botox-pumped bodies and sting the bastards in places they can't scratch.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 03-16-2004, 12:32 AM:

DVD rot has been identified for a while; it's especially worse on dual-layered discs. The Sydney Morning Herald broke this biggest in Feb. of 2003 with an article about a failure analysis engineer who decided to start getting refunds. As expected, it wasn't without a fight, then only within a "reasonable" time period. It may be that VHS tapes will remain more watchable over time than some DVD's.

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 03-16-2004, 03:31 AM:

This sounds similar to the problem that PDO in England had with their pressings of Hyperion, ASV, Albany and some other labels.
( http://personal.riverusers.com/~manderso/uhjdisc/bronzing.htm )
They gracefully replaced a full dozen CD'S that had become unplayable. I'd be tempted to order my DVD'S from England if the situation becomes more widespread and the North American suppliers will not back up their quality.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-17-2004, 09:19 AM:

Possibly a down side to living in a very humid local.... or possibly something Bob harris added to Hitch's original plot... that all Vertigo DVD's will fail and the film will not be seen by anyone for another two generations.....
Mark

Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 03-17-2004, 07:45 PM:

Is it possible that you might have accidentally bought a "DIVX" DVD? The DIVX format was created as an alternative to video rental stores, it let's you play the disk once, then if you want to play it again, you have to pay for a special code to unlock the disk. These disks only work in players that are designed to play DIVX disks, which would explain why your backup player and computer wouldn't run it.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-17-2004, 08:36 PM:

Rob,

Were you serious when you asked that question? I hope not because I have been a serious videophile ever since Sony first introduced the Beta home video format and have also utilized every video device including VHS, High 8 Pre recorded tapes, laserdicss and finally DVDs. I knew what Circuit City's DIVX format was and would not touch it even if it was offered to me for free!
To answer your question, NO it was not a DIVX but an official DVD I bought at Tower. If you read my post closely, you would have noticed when I had said that Tower Video will replace it with new copy. If it was a DVIX, disc, why would they do that?

-Claude

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 03-19-2004, 09:45 PM:

Welcome, Rob!

Claude: I got 3 discs a few months ago that played fine the first 2-3 times they played, but started skipping and freezing up with no scratches of any kind on them!

Got them at Circuit City.

Store whined about my returning the discs nearly 6 months after the purchase date, but, we worked it out.

****

This is my first post on my new (to me) Computer! Seems to be working pretty good!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-19-2004, 10:44 PM:

Is "laser rot" only applicable to video disks/DVDs? I once heard that CDs were affected too but I have 20+ year old disks that still play fine. In fact I can't think of any that have ever stopped playing for me.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-20-2004, 12:27 AM:

Mike,

Has it been twenty years years since CDs were first introduced? I believe I was one of the first person in Hawaii to buy a CD player and in a short period of time, I built up a large collection. Like you, I have never had a problem with any of the earlier discs I bought as well as many I bought later. My "VERTIGO" DVD was the 2nd one to go bad. The first one was a Warner Brothers disc of "THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT". The picture pixilated after an hour and became unplayable on all of my machines. My local video retailer was kind enough to replace it with a brand new copy. So far, I have been lucky with my DVDs with only two going bad. I wonder if I will be able to say the same thing five years from now?

Bruce,

You were very lucky to get Circuit City to replace three of your DVDs that went bad. That store is not very well known for good customer relation where I am. The only label I know that has a disc replacement system is Disney. They do have an on line address where you can register your discs and if any of the discs should ever become unplayable due to a manufacturing defect, they will replace it with a new copy.

-Claude

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-20-2004, 12:32 AM:

Compact discs were introduced in the spring of 1983. Damn I feel old. [Smile]

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 03-20-2004, 06:28 AM:

Daryl, you are old. [Razz]

Claude: I think that the only reason CC replaced 3 disks was that I replaced all of them with the same titles, and that I had bought 12 movies that day.

2 of the 3 disks I replaced were FOX titles. The other one was Paramount.

I generally don't do much trading with CC.

[ 03-20-2004, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce McGee ]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-20-2004, 11:15 AM:

"Laser rot" can affect any disc with an Aluminum layer. CDs, LDs, and DVDs all encapsulate their Aluminum layers to prevent oxidation. If the Aluminum ever becomes exposed to air, it oxidizes and any data recorded there becomes unplayable.

There have been stories of laser rot from the earliest days of CDs. I too have CDs dating back to 1983 and those discs continue to play just fine. But it is possible for a CD to go bad, usually due to a seal failure at the edges of the disc. Some discs have molded edges, others have cut edges. The cut edge type seemed to be more prone to edge failure. If either type fails and lets air in, that disc will eventually become unplayable.

LDs had particular suseptibility to Aluminum layer oxidation for a couple of reasons. One, the plastic used for LDs was hygroscopic--it absorbed moisture from the surrounding air. Another was that most LDs were double-sided, essentially two single-sided halves glued together to form a single disc. Finally, LDs were relatively large, which could lead to large warping forces. So LDs were prone to warping and partial glue failures, leading eventually to edge failures and laser rot.

Fortunately, CDs and DVDs use a plastic that is not hygroscopic so at least warping due to moisture isn't a problem. These discs' small size helps minimize warping as well. But many DVDs are double-sided, and are prone to some of the same failure mechanisms that affected double-sided LDs.

In the end, anything that allows air to come in contact with the Aluminum layer of any of these discs leads to eventual laser rot and unplayability.

Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 03-20-2004, 07:00 PM:

Claude,

I didn't mean to underestimate your intelligence, I actually have a friend that bought a few DIVX disks thinking they were regular DVDs. She'd never heard of DIVX until after she asked me if I know why they wouldn't play anymore. So YES, I was being serious when I asked that question.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 03-21-2004, 06:05 PM:

Claude

I just checked my copy of "Vertigo" and it played fine. I bought a few years ago and this is about the third or fourth play of that disc.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-23-2004, 07:09 PM:

Bill,

I am very happy you are not having any problem with your copy of the "VERTIGO" DVD. Tower video in my area where I frequent often just replaced my defective copy this morning. I have noticed two things that are different with the copy I returned and the copy I just received. First of all, the cover is different. The defective copy had an orange cover and the new one is gray and is exactly the same design as other Hitchcock's classics released by Universal including "REAR WINDOW" and "ROPE". The disc itself on the label side is also different. The defective copy was a almost a medium shade of gold and looked exactly like the dual layered playing side. The new copy has a silver like tone. I suspect this is the way my disc originally looked and it had turned to a golden shade when it might have become oxidized and unplayable.

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-23-2004, 08:27 PM:

I've had three discs in my collection (which numbers about 150 or so) go bad due to rot. "American Beauty, Awards Edition," "The Crow: Collector's Edition" and "Three Kings."

I tried doing a search to find a previous post and picture I uploaded of the rotted American Beauty disc, but didn't have any luck. It and the Crow discs both had a strange appearance to the playing surface. There was this slight milky looking kind of thing close to the outer edge of the disc, which seemed to indicate the bonding glue or something had separated.

The "Three Kings" disc had no visible problems to it at all, but would not play past the beginning of the third act. I tried loading it into my computer and the opening menu just locked my machine all to hell.

I was able to exchange a couple of the DVDs for new copies since I still had the receipts stored in the cases. Didn't do that with the "Three Kings" one, thanks to Warner's shitty snapper cases. I'm not sure I liked that movie enough to even want to spend $8 at Wal-Mart to replace it.

The thing that scares me about DVD rot is how it may one day affect some DVDs I have that are no longer available. I would be pissed if my Criterion version of "Robocop" died of rot.