Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Heaven's Gate - misunderstood masterpiece or waste of film?

This is topic Heaven's Gate - misunderstood masterpiece or waste of film? in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000356

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-09-2004, 09:28 PM:

I finally saw the infamous movie which sank UA on DVD. At first it looked like it was going to be 3h45m of fuzzy-looking,sepia-colored, folk-music-accompanied solid boredom. But then there were actually elements which were much better, some optically attractive shots and also solid action. The movie is definitely way too long, but I didn't think it was the complete catastrophy that many critics say it is. Some reviewers even call it a misunderstood masterpiece which was destroyed by malicious critics. I don't think that's true either, a better movie would have found a certain following by word of mouth.
What do you think?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-09-2004, 10:59 PM:

Its an ok movie but is way too long. I believe it does have a large following in some countries but not here. Alot of the expense was for glorified things like shipping in a steam locomotive for some shots....

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-10-2004, 06:37 AM:

I understand that there are no longer any of those cut versions prints available, which supposedly were much more tolerable to sit through than the 4 hour version. It was supposedily what would save the picture from bombing, but the firestorm of bad press already doomed it at the few theatres it was booked into.

A friend who saw the shortie claims that if it were re-released theatrically today, it might find a niche audience and do well in the art houses. Problem is, from what I can gather, MGM has no short version prints at all for booking, although I understand they have a few full version prints which they have quietly been playing it in art houses -- those brave enough to book it. Me, I would think long and hard about risking booking a 4hr movie, especially if the main thing it's got going for it is its "historical value" (that "historical value" hook, BTW, is not an easy sell, even to the film buff crowd).

You are really going out in deep water when you ask people to come see a movie that everyone says is really boring -- and four hours worth of boring -- just because it once almost bankrupt a Hollywood studio. But I might be able to market the short version for its historical value: "come see how the UA executives in a panic frenzy, had at the film with their own personal splicers." I might be able to pull that off -- tell the audience to watch the long version first at home at their leisure, then come see the shortie on the big screen. I would, that is, IF I could get my hands on a short version print (which they say are only floating around in collector-land). I'd also sell the long DVD version packaged with a box of Viverin caffeen pills out in the lobby. [Big Grin]

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 12-10-2004, 01:15 PM:

Within the last two months "Heaven's Gate" ran here in New York City with a new 35mm print. Plus also booked with it was a new documentry called "Final Cut: The Making and Unmaking of Heaven's Gate". The documentry was pretty good.

The cut 149 minute version of "Heaven's Gate" was horrible. The cut version was available in 70MM at one time.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 12-10-2004, 01:36 PM:

I've never watched it, but I have Heaven's Gate on CED videodisc, it says it's the longer version. It's in stereo but most likely pan & scan. I'm looking forward to eventually seeing the ultimate failure movie on the ultimate failure format.
BTW I thought "Waterworld" would have done the same as Heaven's Gate, it's a shame it didn't. It's essential viewing for bad movie fans, definitely not worth all the money they wasted on it.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-10-2004, 02:28 PM:

quote: Bill Gabel
The cut 149 minute version of "Heaven's Gate" was horrible. The cut version was available in 70MM at one time.

I saw it in 70mm a few years ago; I can't remember how long it ran, and it's the only verson of the film I've seen, so I'm not sure whch version it was.

It was ok; not the greatest film I've ever seen, but a long way from being the worst.

I've also got a VHS copy of it, whiich I've never watched. It's NTSC, which my present VHS machine won't play.

I think the power of the critics has dmished somewhat since then, so the bad reviews might not have killed it if it had been made more recently.

The VHS copy is 3 hours 40 minutes, so it sounds lke the long version. I'll have to watch it sometime; eiither in black and white with linear mono sound, or borrow a NTSC capable player from somewhere. I do have a NTSC to RGB decoder which I normally use for watching NTSC Laserdiscs.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-10-2004, 06:01 PM:

"Final Cut" is also the title of a book after which the documentary was apparently made. I stumbled across it in my local library and checked it out. It is by a former UA executive and tells the story from an inside perspective. There is also a lot of background info about how the studios in general and UA in particluar developed and worked. It's fun to read if you are interested in movie history. I wonder how "objective" it is, coming from the pen of one of those directly involved in the desaster.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-12-2004, 08:08 PM:

"Waterworld" ("Mad Max in the Ocean")- just one, big "wet" ripoff of a good character and story. When the trailers were released in that spring-both scope and flat-especially the scope trailers, one was at least hoping for a good anamorphic, wide-screen presentation. But, "Nooo!" danged thing was in Flat. What a rip-off all the way around. Only thing noticable was the new Universal trademark that is now on their prints, which came out with Waterworld (and the animation trick of that trademark with the globe being absorbed completely with the ocean..).

True, after seeing this movie and hearing about the problems associated with, I couldn't help of thinking back in 1980 with the release of "Heaven's Gate" - the noted movie that film sunk UA as above mentioned, and wondered if "Waterworld" will sink Universal, for Universal really took the "spank" on this one back in 1995. Kevin Costner needs to quit making movies.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 12-12-2004, 10:18 PM:

The current Universal logo that's on the prints now has been the same since May 1997, with the release of Jurassic Park: The Lost World.

The one prior to that was released in 1990 for the ( 75th or 90th ) anniversary of the studio.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-12-2004, 10:50 PM:

I highly recommend the book 'Final Cut' as well. a great read.

-Aaron

Posted by David M. Leugers (Member # 2968) on 01-22-2005, 06:45 PM:

I remember looking forward so much to seeing "Heaven's Gate" when it came out. I loved "The Deer Hunter" and Michael Cimino was being hailed as a great auteur. The film is notorious not just because of the amount of money it took to make (and ultimately lost) but because it was so much less than what it should have been. The edited version was indeed not very great, and I always felt really cheated by the lackluster and boring action scenes and big gunfights. Not really a bad movie, but certainly not a great one either. Michael Cimino never recovered his status he attained with "The Deer Hunter". Truely a "one hit wonder".

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-22-2005, 10:35 PM:

"Heaven's Gate" was (at least partially) filmed in Montana, so it attracted a lot of news coverage. I remember the theatres in Billings playing it. By the second or third week, the savage reviews were out and the theatres were running ads saying "If you don't love this movie, we'll give you your money back!" I'd hate to have been running that place that week.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-24-2005, 01:02 PM:

Over this last weekend the cable station TRIO was playing the documentary "Final Cut: The Making of Heaven's Gate".