Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DVD 480p Question

This is topic DVD 480p Question in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-03-2005, 05:33 PM:

Hi

I am really new to DVD. I have a few questions. I just got a Sony DVP-NS575P player as a gift. It has the standard connection plus the s-video connection and the component Y,Ps,Pr connections.

I also have a new standard Panasonic Tau 21inch flat screen TV with the same three types of connections.

Right now I am using the S-Video connection. I think the image quality is very nice. How much better would it be with the component connection? Would I see the difference in a standard set? Also, it says I can set a switch in the back to play 480p but I must use this component connection. Will 480p play on a standard set using the component connection?

Larry

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-03-2005, 06:13 PM:

Yes, you should be able to see the difference betweeen S-Video and component on a properly set up standard definition (SD) monitor equipped with these inputs.

What's the model number for your Panasonic Tau monitor? Not all of the Tau series are equipped for displaying progressive pictures.

Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-03-2005, 07:08 PM:

Hi

It's a CT20SL14. It's a rather small set but seems to be very sharp for a standard set. At least it looked the best sitting in a group of sets at Best Buy. It does a good job using a DISH setup. Although, the DVD using s-video is actually better then the DISH setup in resolution. The question is just how good can this set get.

Larry

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-03-2005, 09:38 PM:

It can get quite good.

The difference between composite and S-Video is greater than between S-Video and Component.

Component will get you better colors and often a sharper picture. With component you are starting to define the colors, although matrixed, such that they will be truer to the original than S-Video which lumps all of the color information into one "chroma" signal.

If you were to think of it in sound...it is like going from mono, to SVA to discrete channels. In the analog world, nothing is going to beat a 5-wire RGBHV (the three colors with horizontal and vertical sync all on separate cables). In fact, I've seen RGBHV going head to head with DVI (digital source) and the RGBHV was nearly indistingquishable from the all digital signal. One would have to put up the right test pattern to show the analog signal. It isn't anything you would see with actual program material.

Anyway, back to your questions. Progressive is always better than interlaced. Thus, if you have a set with a progressive input and you have a progressive source...it will look about TWICE as good as the interlaced version. Digital displays (ones that display as a form of an X:Y grid like LCD, DLP and LCOS) will always de-interlace the signal before display (Though some will let you set it interlaced). However, it is always better to start with the best signal you can get.

The best de-interlacer is the one you don't need. I've seen projector deinterlacers and scalers in action...they both do decent jobs and some do better than others which is to say, you can always tell a signal that started out interlaced just like you can always tell a signal that was once composite.

The last factor and possibly the biggest one is the source material. Not all are created equal...in fact, I haven't seen two DVD's that were mastered equally. Some compress so much that the picture always pixelates. Some don't pay attention to the luminance levels and crash into the relatively low dynamic range of the video world.

A well mastered DVD can look suprisingly great on even big screen, a poorly mastered one can look like crap on even a little TV.

In short, a well mastered DVD played with a 480p output into a 480p input with component signals will look pretty impressive.

Steve

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-03-2005, 10:23 PM:

To answer the previous question, it looks like the CT20SL14 doesn't do progressive scan. The component inputs would still be the ones to use though, if your video sources are capable. Two 2x subcarrier-sampled color difference signals should be visibly better than a quadrature-modulated, bandwidth-limited, phase-rotated, chroma signal, unless that chroma signal has been carefully (and expensively) pre- or post- combed. [Smile]

Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-04-2005, 08:10 AM:

In reading the DVD manual, it more or less indicates only HDTV's have the progressive scan. Is this true or will some standard sets have component progressive scan? Also, the DVD player has a Dolby Digital output. Says it should be connected to a AV amp having a DTS decoder and 6 speakers or a surround system. Who sells these systems and are they rather expensive.

Thanks

Larry

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-04-2005, 12:52 PM:

That's essentially correct. SD sets cannot display progressive images because their deflection yokes aren't built for it--SD sets are strictly interlaced devices. Any HD set can display 480p progressive images on up to the limits of what their video circuits, deflection yokes, and CRT mask designs will allow, usually 1080i. Very few HD sets can display 720p natively due to the more expensive yokes needed. Instead most HD sets convert 720p to 1080i.

As for sound, everyone and his brother sells home theater sound packages these days. And everyone has their favorites. Search this forum for some threads on this. But there are forums and sites dedicated to home theater that are better sources of information than this forum which is focused on professional film presentation. Here's two recommended places to get started:

http://www.avscience.com/ The forums here cover sound, playback, and display devices.

http://www.dvddemystified.com/ The definitive DVD FAQ.

Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-05-2005, 09:48 AM:

Hi

Let me ask one more question so I understand SD and HDTV resolutions. SD runs in 480i and HDTV runs in 480i,480p 720p and 1080i. The order of increasing resolution is as follows, 480i,480p,1080i and then 720p with 720 p being the best resolution. Is this correct?

Larry

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-05-2005, 11:00 AM:

ATSC DTV Standard:

http://www1.leitch.com/resources/tutorials/atscDTVstandard.pdf

HDTV Fundamentals:

http://www.s3graphics.com/TN107A.pdf

Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-05-2005, 01:02 PM:

John

Thanks. The ATSC standard looks great but for whatever reason, the HDTV fundamentals has come up blank as if the web site isn't working.

Larry

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-05-2005, 01:51 PM:

Be patient, the HDTV Fundamentals site is slow. It's a 16 page .pdf file.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-07-2005, 12:59 PM:

Ok, let me throw in another question; I get most of the above, but there is a mode that is usually called "movie" or "cinema" that I've seen in some video projectors specs claiming that this cinema setting is "optimumized" for motion picture content, in some way compensating for the non-linear pull down that the telecine uses to resolve 24fps to 30fps. What exactly is that? And if the source was recorded using that technique of adding the extra frames, how can the display hardware "undo" it? Or am I not understanding what they are claiming to do?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2005, 12:56 AM:

If it is a slick unit, it will display with a 72Hz refresh rate. After a 3:2 pull-down conversion the output of the DVD will have 3-frames, then 2, then 3 then 2....etc...a good conversion to 72Hz, will show each frame 3 times.

For more information on the concept study this (rather large pdf):

DVS406.pdf

Pay attention to page 4 to see what I mean.

Steve

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-09-2005, 01:04 AM:

MPEG-2 content can be authored at 24p, so there is no need to introduce pulldown only to have it removed again when using a progressive scan output.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2005, 12:46 PM:

No but the output rate should still be a multiple of 24Hz to avoid jerky pans when the conversion is made to whatever the presentation rate is. Thus, again, 72Hz would be a good choice.

Steve

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-09-2005, 05:41 PM:

According to the links provided by John above, HDTV is capable of 24Hz. That would seem too flickery, so it probably is 72Hz.

Pans are jerky even when watching them in theaters. They look pretty much the same (for all intents and purposes) when watching a pan in 480p on my TV. It's jerk-jerk-jerk-jerk-jerk-jerk and not jerk-jerk-jerk-jeeeeerk-jerk-jeeeeerk, etc

Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 01-13-2005, 03:14 PM:

Hi

More on this DVD 480p presentation. I was at Best Buy again to look at DTS decoder and found at least the low end units are not too expensive. A Sony "theater in a box" unit with decoder and six surround speakers sold for $199. Although they did have high end units running about $1000 and more. I think the low end system would be somewhat better then just the standard speakers in a SDTV set.

They also had several LCD sets that were between HDTV abd SDTV quality. It was a wide screen unit playing 480p. The system looked very good.