quote: Brad Miller

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You're going to have to spend more than $2000 to get a good DLP projector, unless you go to the used market and get an industrial model with a couple of years on it.

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And that's for a single chip projector, which has the rotating color filter wheel that can sometimes have the "rainbow effect":

http://hometheater.about.com/cs/television/a/aavprojectora_4.htm
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-18-2005, 01:27 PM:
 
Have they solved the rainbow effect? I have been telling people to avoid DLP due to it's fabulous rainbow effect.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-18-2005, 02:01 PM:
 
Hi

I am not trying to dup film here. I am just wondering just how good you can get a DVD/Digital projector setup vs cost. On ebay, I actually see PRO digital theater projectors come up for sale every so often. They say originally $32,000 with an opening bid of $12,000 and maybe a "Buy it Now" for $21,500.

There must be another 3000 digital projectors on ebay ranging from around $800 to about $6000 with a few in the $10,000 range. Some new in the box and others are up to 4 years old.

Are any of these any good and would they at least match a typical $15 DVD resolution for resolution?

Larry
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-18-2005, 02:15 PM:
 
Rainbow effect only applies to single-chip DLP systems. The 3-chip machines don't have that issue.

Some people notice it more than others. It doesn't bother me, personally, though I have noticed it more with B&W source material and with some video projectors more than others. Obviously, the 3-chip configuration is far preferably, but as far as I know, the "home" DLP machines are all single-chip models.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-18-2005, 06:19 PM:
 
You could use an overhead projector to watch movies on like we discussed HERE.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-18-2005, 07:16 PM:
 
Hi

The only real technical problem with overhead projectors is that the lenses are uncorrected maybe even uncoated. So contrast will be low and the real lack of color correction would make any rainbow effect on a DPL projector look mild.

So no one has any inputs to the various projectors out in the market place? I find it interesting that John Pytlak's link more or less featured the Dell series of projectors. This goes along with my first impression of what I may want in a projector and something that is under $1500.

Larry

[ 03-19-2005, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-18-2005, 10:30 PM:
 
Okey Dokey....

First off...stick with 16:9 projectors...they can "snap" between 4:3 and 16:9 though I don't think there is any "flag" to tell them the source material is one or the other. Most have three (or four) modes, 4:3, zoomed 4:3 to eliminate letter box bars, and 16:9 is for anamorphic sources like DVDs to maximize resolution. The fourth one is that evil fill the screen mode or "wide zoom" so that everyone is wider just to fill the screen (some cheat and only expand the sides so the middle area looks somewhat normal).

As for contrast ratio...those are the biggest lies in video today...the second is Lumens. Any video projector that is boasting contrast ratios above 1000:1 is full of it. I defy any of them to take a contrast test pattern (one with white and black areas) and achieve the numbers they claim. One of the best theatres in the world (Samual Goldwyn theatre in LA) can only achieve about 1000:1 on film....and I've never seen a video projector yet that had true blacks when their whites were a mere 12-14 fL. If you have any ambinet light in your house and/or you don't have a flat-black room, you are not going to be able to achieve near 1000:1 and you will be able to see just how un-black a video projector's blacks are. Use the contrast ratio spec (within a manufacturer) as a relative number

Lumens are always quoted with the theoretical bestest fastest lens in place adjusted just so. Plan on 85% of what the manufacturer claims.

Right now, there are two home theatre projectors that are getting really good reviews. The Sanyo PLV-Z3 and the Panasonic AE-700U. Both boast CRs around 2000:1 and have lumen ratings knocking around 1000.

They are 1280 x 720 projectors and they really are geared toward showing DVDs and HDTV. Their pixel spacing is such the most do not see the screen door of the LCD unless you really go down the the screen and look for it (they have very tight spacing on the LCD panels).

They are also knocking around $2000 street price...the Panasonic being a little more though it has an active iris/gamma feature to enchance its apparent contrast ratio.

The active iris will close down for darker screens and open up for lighter scenes. It is updated at the refresh rate of the projector (60Hz). It is the same feature that was used in Panasonic's display at ShoWest 2005 using their bigger DLP projector the 7000U.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-19-2005, 01:48 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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I don't think there is any "flag" to tell them the source material is one or the other.

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Yes there is. My TV knows when to go to 16:9 or 4:3. It even knows when to zoom on non-anamorphic letterboxed DVDs like Truman Show. I do not tell it to go into the proper ratio. When authoring DVDs myself, I have complete control over this flag and what it tells the TV at all times. If I videotape an anamorphic DVD or videogame to VHS and then play it back on a widescreen TV, the TV will automatically go into widescreen mode even for the VHS tape. Once the material ends and 4:3 stuff comes on, it snaps back.

What I am wondering is if home theater projectors have advanced far enough to recognize these flags. Like I said, projectors are very strange beasts that seem to follow no typical convention so I really have no idea.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-19-2005, 02:28 AM:
 
Hmmmm....I've yet to see one do that (video projector automatically switch modes). I wonder where the flag is on the signal. I would think it is more likely for something like that to be on a projector geared towards consumers rather than for pro use. The PLV-Z3 and the AE-700U are the type of projectors that should have that feature if any do.

How long has that flag been encoded onto videos?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-19-2005, 04:22 AM:
 
Since DVD came around at least. I imagine it is somewhere in the video sync since the flag can be recorded on to video tape. If you are really curious I can videotape a whole bunch of 16:9 and 4:3 stuff back to back and then point my camera at the TV so you can see it snapping back and forth as required as the video plays.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-19-2005, 03:28 PM:
 
There is a 4:3/16:9 flag on DVDs, as shown in the illustration below under Menu Attributes and Title Set Attributes.



As far as the television adjusting for VHS as well, I would have to say that the television itself is looking for blank space on letterboxed video and adjusting itself.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-19-2005, 03:33 PM:
 
I would presume that the flag on a DVD would allow the DVD player to choose between an anamorphic or letterboxed representation of the feature (depending on how the DVD player is set up...only if the 16:9 setting is chosen on the DVD player will the anamorphic version be sent out of the DVD player).

In Europe, I see that the SCART connector has on Pin-8 a flag to tell a receiver the aspect ratio. Apparently there is a line on the encoding of the film to trigger this pin.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-19-2005, 06:28 PM:
 
You can tell the video to force letterbox if the player has been set up for 4:3 pan and scan for the menu s items don't get chopped off. A good example of this is the menu for the DVD I am creating for you. Since there are so many selections on it, I didn't want to risk any of them getting cut off.


 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-20-2005, 12:12 AM:
 
LOLROF, Joe you really have too much time on your hands to put something like that together. It's either that or you're really fast at what you do.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-20-2005, 12:25 AM:
 
When it comes to porn, Joe is proud to be the first one finished!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-20-2005, 02:21 AM:
 
I'm pretty quick. Though I do think that it is interesting that whenever someone does something creative, people usually assume that the person must have a lot of time on their hands. I have seen that a lot on the internet.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 03-24-2005, 11:54 AM:
 
The April "Sound and Vision" magazine has a feature on three "bargain" front DLP projectors that sound like they're right up your alley.

In the end, the reviewer liked the InFocus ScreenPlay 4805 (MSRP $1299) best. They also covered the HP EP7100 and the NEC H410.

Sound and Vision Magazine Online (I didn't see the article there)
 

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Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 03-28-2005, 08:55 AM:
 
I have a Panasonic AE-700 and am extremely happy with it in fact providing the DVD is a good transfer from 35mm film, the viewer could easily be fooled into believing that they are watching 35mm film. The blacks certainly appear black in a dark theatrette even when the projector set on the dynamic setting, which lifts the light output and is intended for rooms that are not completely dark.

The light output of 1000 ansi-lumens provides a well lit scope picture which is 11 foot 6 inches wide on a matt screen.

Another advantage other than the specs Steve mentioned is the zoom range. I had been looking for a projector that has a long enough focal length lens to enable me to install it in the projection room without the picture being too large for my existing theatrette screen which is 9 feet wide on wide screen The throw is 27 feet. The AE-700 manages this with the 16 x 9 image fitting between the top and bottom maskings.

The aspect ratio does have an automatic change or you can select between standard 3 x 4, or 1 : 1.85 anamorphic manually. The fit to fill feature, I don't use. Scope DVDs play on 1 : 1.85 anamorphic with black at top and bottom so a zoom adjustment is necessary if consistant height is required. A control at the front of the projector permits horizontal and vertical adjustment of the picture optically . Because of the claimed 1 to 2000 contrast ratio the projected black at the top and bottom is not noticed. Co ordination between the aspect ratio settings on the player and that of the projector is however necessary. This, and given the range of settings and variations between disks, the whole aspect ratio issue does become quite complicated. I really don't know how the non technical owner copes.

Another feature is the HDMI (digital) link between the player and the projector. This is a recent high definition standard and can be used provided you have a recent player that supports it. The picture resolution is better when using this, but only noticable on a disk with good resolution.

One problem I have had with the projector, is a flash of disturbance for about 2 frames duration, occupying about a third of the picture. This happened when using the HDMI link but not when using s-video, composite, and component connections. It usually occured about three times per movie. A software upgrade by Panasonic has remedied the problem. If you are thinking of purchasing an AE-700, make sure it has the upgrade.

The only other imediment is varying sync on some disks. I believe however that this problem maybe related more to the DVDs rather than the projector. Perhaps someone can throw some light on the subject.

I have two friends who have also bought the AE 700 and are very happy. By the way, I don't have any business links with Panasonic and my opinion is based on my experience as a customer only.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-28-2005, 10:03 AM:
 
What kind of price for the AE-700? Right now they are selling Dell 2400's which has the same specs as the AE-700 for about $1200. I am using about the same setup as you for the theater specs. About a 27 foot throw for a 4x9 ft 35mm scope image that is about 15 foot lamberts in brightness. It would be great to get the same 27 foot throw 4 ft high digital DVD image with a digital projector.

Larry
 

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Posted by Christian Volpi (Member # 2370) on 03-28-2005, 10:43 AM:
 
Just whip out your AMEX and buy a Barco.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-28-2005, 08:45 PM:
 

quote: Larry Myers

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Right now they are selling Dell 2400's which has the same specs as the AE-700 for about $1200.

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quote:

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Take into account that the AE700 and Z3 are somewhat optimized for the purpose of running HDTV and other "home theatre" programs,

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quote:

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The Kodak Digital Cinema system includes a package consisting of proprietary software, as well as hardware and services to prepare, distribute, and display quality pre-show advertising through feature movie presentations on theatre screens.

The full system is being demonstrated on multiple cinema screens at ShoWest at a special event prior to feature presentations attended by hundreds of industry professionals. "It's important for us to demonstrate our system in a real world environment to some of the most demanding audiences," Doeren says.

For the pre-show demonstrations, Kodak is using the new three-chip DLP high definition ScreenPlay 333 projectors from InFocus.

"High definition projection is the next step for pre-show presentations," says Doeren. "On the InFocus projectors, the images are brighter and sharper with a greater range of contrast and more color saturation. Combined with surround sound, they make everything, including concerts and other events, a more enjoyable experience. HD images on our system have a crispness and depth that seem to jump off the screen."

Doeren emphasizes there is still a difference between high definition and motion picture-grade quality. For feature presentations, the company is demonstrating the new Kodak CineServer, which is compatible with a range of digital projectors up to 2K resolution. Kodak is using the Barco 2K DLP projector to show trailers and motion picture content at ShoWest.

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quote:

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(March 09,2005)
InFocus Corporation, the worldwide leader in digital projection technology and services, today announced it has been selected by Eastman Kodak Company and Cinema Screen Media (CSM) to provide three-chip Digital Light Processing (DLP) digital projectors to bring high-definition clarity and excitement to pre-show entertainment programming.

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quote:

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By teaming with Kodak and CSM, the world's largest independent provider of digital pre-show presentations, InFocus projectors will be a part of Kodak's new high-definition pre-show capability. CSM is using the Kodak system to raise the standards for the unique programming they provide prior to feature films in movie theaters nationwide.

InFocus will provide high-definition digital projectors with customized lens options to complement the Kodak Digital Cinema system. The specially-produced InFocus ScreenPlay 333 projectors use three DLP chips by Texas Instruments and provide captivating images to set the stage for the feature film presentation. Built from InFocus ScreenPlay engineering, the ScreenPlay
333 uses this legacy to create a professional product ideal for the needs of public cinema.

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