Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: SUPERBIT DVD, can YOU tell the difference anymore?

This is topic SUPERBIT DVD, can YOU tell the difference anymore? in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000437

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 10-21-2005, 12:43 AM:

I was just curious if anyone can really tell the difference between a standard (well encoded) DVD and a Superbit DVD? I used to see a difference, but with player enhancements and better encoding of standard DVD's, is there really a difference anymore? The only reason I ask is because all the Superbit DVD's are now $9.99 and I was wondering why they would drop from the $22 Best Buy was getting to the current $9.99 price. Is it because the standard quality is rising? or is it because Superbit DVD's are more a scam than "higher quality" as advertised. Any opinions?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-21-2005, 01:04 AM:

On a good-enough monitor I can see the difference, but I know what to look for and I graded and shaded video images on the fly during live production for 20 some odd years. The differences are there but for most people it won't make much difference since their playback equipment won't show it. Superbit wasn't a scam but it was a waste of money for most people to buy it.

I imagine those discs are being dumped in preparation for the HD and BluRay DVDs coming in a few months. Superbit is still SD, and even good SD will pale in comparison to HD.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-21-2005, 03:15 AM:

I do a lot of MPEG2 encoding and I have never seen a SuperbitDVD. All they are are DVD's with a higher bit rate. That's it. But from my point of view, good encoding yields better results than just shoving a higher bitrate at the encoded material. I have very little tolerance for poorly encoded video, and there isn't much out there that ISN'T poorly encoded. MPEG2 is a horrible format, one of the worst ever conceived. In fact, ALL MPEG video formats are pure crap. Pure dogshit on a stick. Only a horrible human being who has no right to live would like MPEG in any form. If you like MPEG, you probably think that sticking your tongue up your dog's ass is delicious. Have I made my point yet? I didn't think so. Anyone who likes MPEG absolutely DESERVES fatal breast cancer. In fact, the government created cancer to get rid of people who like MPEG, being as that cancer cells are only attracted to MPEG lovers.

That should do it.

Posted by Andy Summers (Member # 3207) on 10-21-2005, 08:03 AM:

I thought I was that they just leave out the extras on the DVD like audio commentaries, making of etc, reading the back cover of the “Superbit” DVD and reading the cover of the same film, for example “Black Hawk Down.” Thus reducing the amount of data storage on the disc, that makes a whole lot of sense, but not necessarily true, some DVD’s with out all the promises of higher grade quality like there from the dark ages, I have a few laying around on the DVD shelf, but haven’t we all.

Personally I think it’s not worth the money, remember when “Columbia Trisatar” home video was doing the same thing a few years ago with there Laserdisc and VHS tapes.

Calling it (New Digital Master Better Picture Quality) I still have a few of there titles, “The Professional” “Starship Troopers” and “Men in Black” which also happens to be “THX” as well, now then something is fishy about all this, if you as me?

And now a few years on there doing the same thing all over again, only this time there marketing idea is called “Superbit” why not just call it “SuperDVD” oh well, God knows what there going to call it when the (HD-DVD) starts arriving on the shelves…

“…Megabit” it’s just like "THX" Digital Mastering program, only the campaign sold me the idea, sorry “Columbia Tristar” there’s only one DVD that I will buy from you in the “Superbit” range and that’s “Labyrinth” which is in six-track Dolby Stereo, the standard none “Superbit” DVD which is just Dolby Stereo sorry, so there you have it.

Frank’ click on the links below this is a glossary of the “Superbit” DVD campaign.

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/what_is_superbit.html

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

As for seeing the differences yes I can see that, if I had both the same film on DVD and conducted an A&B test, take ”Alien” 1979-2000 and “Alien” directors cut edition 2003-2003 I can see and hear the difference and Alien 1979-2000 edition wins.

Another thing that springs to mind is, film restoration “Vertigo” now that looks good, not sure if “Robert Harris” is pleased with the contents of the film on DVD, I am though he may disagree with that comment. There’s not a whole lot happening with improvements of DVD’s within the market, I mean sure there “THX” with it’s Digital Mastering Program, “Columbia Tristar” with there own Digital Mastering Program, is there anyone else that I have forgot to mention?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-21-2005, 05:48 PM:

Superbit is just fancy marketing for an otherwise bare bones disc that features a high video bitrate and dual 5.1 DTS/DD audio tracks.

Some Superbit titles, such as "Snatch" are in the "Superbit Deluxe" variety. They have 2 discs; one featuring the movie and the disc featuring the extras.

The reason I call it fancy marketing is because lots of other 2 disc DVD release do the "superbit" already. Put the movie on one disc and maximize the bitrate and stick all the extras on the other disc. Pretty old idea really.

The Superbit editions of certain movies do show a difference. I have the Superbit version of "Air Force One." A friend of mine has the previous DVD of that film. The Superbit version does show noticeably better detail, much less in the way of video artifacts and better overall image quality.

The Superbit version of "Lawrence of Arabia" corrects a number of soundtrack gaffes present on the previous versions. Robert Harris has documented the screw ups in previous posts.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 10-21-2005, 11:04 PM:

Thats what I was thinking. Back when Superbit DVD first came out, I beleive it was superior in quality to most other DVDs, however, I think technology has evened the playing field where pretty much all major releases could be considered Superbit quality. Given a choice between a standard version of a movie for $10, and a Superbit version for $10, I'd probably still go Superbit. Most of the extras on some of these movies are pretty weak afterthoughts. Not worth taking up space on the disc.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-21-2005, 11:19 PM:

I don't agree with a possible blanket statement that any major DVD release is effectively a "superbit" release. There's lots of discs out there which don't qualify. Certainly if the studio tries to cram everything possible into a single disc then certain compromises have to be made.

The "superbit" complement can be given to a DVD that fulfills a few requirements. Obviously the video bitrate has to be high and encoding quality very good. The disc has to carry both DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 formats. A couple commentary tracks won't hurt things much, but extra features on the movie disc need to be kept to a minimum of such things as that.

I have quite a few 2-disc DVDs that meet those requirements. My five star editions of "Die Hard" and "Speed" do the job. Same for my Vista Series version of "Tombstone." Lots of other non-Sony titles can be added.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-21-2005, 11:53 PM:

The regular old non-special cheap-o edition of DIE HARD kicks so much ass. Such a smooth sound mix, too. It can really be cranked and rock the house.

They really need a "Superbit" Titanic release with the movie all on one disc and no extras. They can pack the extras on another DVD (with each interview in Dolby and DTS) and a 3rd disc with commentary tracks and crappy video (with each commentary track in Dolby and DTS).

Posted by Andy Summers (Member # 3207) on 10-22-2005, 09:47 AM:

Joe’

Did you know the sound mix on “DIE HARD” is not the same as the theatrical realise, as found on the (“THX” Laserdisc AC-3) the scene where “Hans” is pointing the (Beretta 92 9mm) at “John McClane” and when “Hans” pulls the trigger the sound is positioned to the right screen channel, now with the DVD version the sound is placed in the centre. I hate re-mixes.

Oh yes I have found so many the lists are shocking….

Also dts isn’t going to save the DVD by everyone thinking WOW this is going to great when in fact most of the time it isn’t, so never dump your ole Laserdisc or first edition DVD, believing you have the crème de la crème version.

Note: there is a Spanish language version on the DVD, not sure what languages you have on your version of “DIE HARD” however, the original placement of “Hans” pulls the trigger is in the correct place, then again I only know a few words of Spanish, so this isn’t going to work, quote- from “Gremlins”-“God damn foreign films”

So why is it, there getting the theatrical sound effects placement in the correct placement, and where just getting a (DONKEY) version, check out (STAR TREK V) where the “Klingon” burps it’s got less low end on the DVD English language, but when switching to the German language lot of low end, now some one needs there ass kicking…..

Posted by Andy Summers (Member # 3207) on 10-25-2005, 05:18 PM:

Today I brought GATTACA on DVD SUPER BIT for £8.00 pounds though I seen this before, but not from the very start as I like the ending with a mellow uplifting score by Michael Nman but I did analyze the Dolby Stereo Digital track, begin more puncher than the dts track, but not entirely the dynamics very slightly with frequency but cheeking it with the SPL db meter and noticed a 3db difference between the two Digital tracks the Dolby wins hands down on this one.

As for the image it was clear, for what I was getting and held up very well.

Also was this filmed using anamorphic lenses or did they film it in super 35 framed to the 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

Cheers.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-25-2005, 05:29 PM:

Super 35 format

Posted by Andy Summers (Member # 3207) on 10-25-2005, 05:38 PM:

Bill’

Cheers mate I had my suspicion about it still it looks good…

http://www.theedge.abelgratis.co.uk/filmsgl/gattaca_files/gattaca3.jpg

"GATTICA" plays very well with the centre back surround turned on, as well as the "Sonic Whole Overhead" performs very well and the "Lucasfilm THX" gives it that edge of excellence.

At present watching GATTICA what a Sci-Fi film the performances are creditable and still I can’t get over the split-surrounds on this centre back and Sonic Whole Overhead makes it very viewable.