Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How can there be a copyright issue with a commercial DVD?

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-23-2006, 09:15 AM:

I never EVER watch movies on a computer monitor, so I had never really tried to play a DVD on my new computer (Win XP Pro) which came with a internal DVD player/burner. But the other day I wanted to check something in CINIMA PARADISO for a post here, so I plopped in the new director's cut version, double-sided DVD CINEMA PARADISO into the computer's DVD drive. A Windows dialog box came up wanting to know what I wanted to do with this disk it just found....play it with Windows Media Player, Real Player, Quick Time Player....etc. I chose Windows Media Player. The the player opened and after a second I got an error message: "Windows Media Player cannot play the DVD because a problem occurred with digital copyright protection." WTF?!! Yeah, I'll say something's wrong with your effin digital copyright protection....it gawdamn effin sucks!

Same thing with Real Player. And QT. Win Media Player showed Disk Unknown in the display window, yet in My Computer knew that CINMEMA PARADISO was the name of the disk in the DVD drive. What is this, Smart operating system, stupid Media Players? What copyright protection is involved in a commercially purchased DVD?

Good friends, this is a bought-and-paid-for commercial DVD right off amazon.com. I paid my money for; I have the sales slip. This means Miramax/Sony took my money and turned around and STOLE MY PROPERTY! How come the chickenshit FBI doesn't investigate THEM as low-life scum thieves that they are for infringing on MY property rights? Huh? Why doesn't the FBI, instead of being the lackies of the MPAA....the studios and record companies own private police, how bout the FBI fighting on MY behalf, how about swathing those Sony CEO's balls with BenGay and letting them BURN like hell until my DVD of CINEMA PARADISO plays in my DVD player? How bout that, you FBI aparatchacks?

These shill bastards had better stop trying to rule the world with their effin copyright security crap that screws honest people who honestly purchase their products. It's enough to make me want to go out and buy nothing but bootleg DVDs, that is if I could find a movie coming out of Hollywood that I would actually want to see, let alone own.

Anyone have any idea what this is all about and why my computer can't play this legitimate DVD? BTW, this DVD plays on all my other regular, stand-alone DVD players, just not on the computer's.

So for all their talk about closing the theatrical/video window so they can make even more billions in video sales (or so they stupidly think in their greedy, beedy twisted little mercenary brains), if this is the kind of problem people can expect trying to use the studios' super protected video products, I say, may the whole damn bunch of them find crumbs in their bed every night and may they be wallowing in their own diarhhea when they wake up in the morning. [Mad]

And I say long live the hackers and the bootleggers. [beer]

Serves them right that a bootleg KING KONG is already out there on the street for $7 -- that's what they get for trying to screw decent people. [fu]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-23-2006, 10:14 AM:

This is one of the reasons why I think the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats are not going to sell well at all.

Look at the success at Apple Computer over the past few years. Perhaps the main reason why the company's fortunes turned around is the company got even more obsessed than it already was in providing cusomters with a good user experience.

When a company makes a product a pain in the ass to use, especially any digital technology product, most people are not going to line up to buy. Those new formats are going to be much more complicated to install and use than standard DVD players. And they'll feature lots of incompatibility problems -namely incompatibility with 1-2 million existing HDTV monitors in the American marketplace that lack HDMI inputs. Great way to treat customers there!

OTOH, Windows Media Player, Real Player and Apple's Quicktime player are not really set up for playing DVDs. Normally you need a dedicated DVD playing application like PowerDVD or WinDVD to play most discs. Most DVD movies are regionally coded and have Macrovision copy protection thrown in for the ride. Windows Media Player doesn't get along with those features. PowerDVD seems to have little trouble dealing with it.

Most computer manufacturers have tried to get more on the ball lately with regard to enabling customers to play DVDs on their computers. Dell has a OEM version of PowerDVD it installs on most of their machines. It automatically launches when you put a DVD movie into an optical drive. Years ago it wasn't quite so simple and lots of customers got pissed.

Computer companies are going to be up against the wall again when Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives hit the market. Hollywood wants to force all sorts of stupid shit to hamstring the functions of a computer system. The computer companies want to still be able to sell new computers at all. They're not going to manage that if someone can fire up a 7 year old PC that functions in a more straight forward manner than a new system.

[ 01-23-2006, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-23-2006, 11:31 AM:

I use PowerDVD to play movies on the PC, and I've never had a single instance when a disc wouldn't play. We're talking about a LOT of them too.

Found this on support.microsoft.com:

quote:
C00D1163: A problem occurred with digital copyright protection
A troubleshooter is available to help you solve this problem. To troubleshoot the problem, see the DVD Troubleshooter in Windows Help. In the troubleshooter, click the "I receive a message about digital copy protection" option.

Note

To play DVDs, you must have a DVD-ROM drive and a software or hardware DVD decoder installed on your computer. If you do not have a compatible DVD decoder installed, DVD-related commands, options, and controls do not appear in the Player and you cannot play DVDs. By default, Windows does not include a DVD decoder. For more information about DVD decoders, see the DVD Decoder Plug-ins page at the Microsoft Web site.

Are you sure you have DVD decoder software installed? I bet you don't.
Microsoft Technical Article

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-23-2006, 12:06 PM:

I'll second, third, forth, whatever using PowerDVD as the DVD player on a PC. I also use Slyfox AnyDVD with PowerDVD to eliminate any hassles with region codes.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 01-23-2006, 08:49 PM:

Frank, good rant. But I think all you need is PowerDVD like others have mentioned.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2006, 12:27 AM:

Yeppers, and I add my plus vote on PowerDVD as well for DVD watching on PC systems - even on laptops.

Media Player just doesn't cut it in any direction. Reminds you of what Microsoft wants to do and that is to shove their products down your throat no matter what.

But..there is a slick little program called Media Player Classic... Do a search on this one since I'm not going to display any URLS on how to obtain this program.

But a little hint: find the "alternative" programs of QT and REAL for this "classic" program to work extremely well with any video format. These two programs above are plugins to make this program work.

-Monte

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-24-2006, 02:25 AM:

Thanks guys. I will deal with it now that I know what's going on. But just so as not to loose the rant mood: It seems to me you buy a DVD player, it should play DVDs. I mean, if a computer comes with a DVD player, would I be wildly unreasonable to have an expectation that when I put a DVD in it, it would play the DVD? Silly me; who knew; DVD players in computers don't play most DVDs. And again how silly of me to assume a Window's MEDIA PLAYER would actually be able to play a DVD....which is what if not "media"? chopped liver? Or at the very least, when they sell you a computer with a DVD player, if it won't play this or that DVD, truth in advertising (yah, like there's such a thing) would dictate that the thing should clearly say, in big red letters, this piece of crap won't play Region No. whatever disks and it won't play Macrovision disks and it won't play most anything you put in it unless you go buy some other piece of crap cause we only give you half of the stuff you need to make it work.

I don't know what I am getting so pissed about, as I said, I never watch movies on a computer monitor and anyone who does deserves what he gets. It's just the principle of the thing. Just imagine how upset I'll get when the Blu-Ray thing won;t play the DVD unless I have paid an ISP so they can "activate" it (or deactivate it at will). Like I would EVER buy such a pile of [bs]

Also a word of caution of software that requires remote activation. I paid $100 for a program which I purchased directly from the authoring company. It came on a CDrom with a serial number. The opening screen asked for the SN, which was perfectly normal, but then it also required me to register it via the internet. I thought that was a bit pushy....suppose I was not connected to the internet. Ah, no problem, right underneath I am told that I could also register it via telephone and an 800 number. Why they needed me to register it is a mystery because I bought it on line and they had everything, from my credit card to my home address and fone number. But register I must, or the thing terminated. Thing is, when I clicked on the URL -- no go; it was dead. OK, let's go to the phone. Gee, the 800 fone number is disconnected as well. Seems the company had folded, just after I bought their software. So here I am with a $100 piece of useless software that won't run even though I have the CDrom and the serial number.

See what I mean about that big tub of Ben-Gay and a paint brush? Just let me at them.

Oh yah, I'm in a mood.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2006, 02:56 AM:

Now Frank, did you set up your DVD rom's properties to accept any region?

Goto "My Computer" *right click* on that icon, then head to "properties"-click-, then to the "hardware" tab -click-, then to "device manager"-click-.

Find the DVDRom,-click- on the DVDRom's description and *right click* on that description and you'll see a bunch of tabs and should find the Rom's region properties and see what that region is set at.

One could change the properties to any region, but the dinkey is that this region can only be set 4 times, then "Ka-Pooie!"- drive is locked up for good. Kinda sucks in this department.

Region "0" discs are playable in any drive at any region. "Cinema Paradiso" coming from Miramax, should be Region 1. I have the Laserdisc version of this movie.

-good luck. thx-Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-24-2006, 05:32 AM:

Frank...I kinda see your point and kinda dont. The hardware on a computer and the software on the computer don't necessarily have to match.

Look at the latest DTS XD10 player...they have DVD drives...do you expect to put a DVD in the drawer and expect it to play?

If you have a CD burner in your computer it doesn't mean you have a software program that can actually tell the burner to burn the CD. Many people have their preferences on what software they like so one could presume that if you purchased a piece of hardware (DVD player or CD burner or DVD burner...etc) that you would also purchase the appropriate favorite software to use the hardware.

Most would consider that a computer has world processing as a primary function but MS WORD or your favorite word processor does necessarily come on your computer and are almost always an added cost even though your computer will be able to run the software, if you had it.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-25-2006, 09:46 AM:

OK Steve, if you MUST be the voice of reason, I agree, you shouldn't expect hardware to run without the proper configuration or software....BUT, if you buy a computer, you should have some expectation that everything in it comes with software that is pre-configured, at least in some default mode with some default software that would make it work. You don't expect to have to format and partition the hard drive or have to find software to make the sound card work. All I am saying is that when I tryed to play a DVD for the first time in the computer's DVD player, I shouldn't be told, "Doh! by the way, there is no codec or driver for this device...go get them yourself." And to be fair to my rant, I actually have never gotten a piece of hardware that didn't at least have some rudimentary software (usually "lite," all the while pestering you to buy the "Pro" version, or a version that is already in need of an "upgrade," but at least SOMETHING). What I find so damnable is that none of this stuff is made clear up front. DVDs aren't clearly and conspicously marked whether or not they have Macrovision or what region they are or a caution that they WON'T play in other regions. DVD player/burners, at least the ones in computers, are not clear about what they will or won't play or burn....damn information should be right there on the name plate. Seems that stand-alones have all the software they need to play anything you plop into them, nearly. THEY have the software built in....I guess I figure if they can make a $69 DVD player play DVDs without having to futz with additional software, why are the computer players so uppity? So, ok, yah, maybe I over-reacted a tad....but I just had a birthday, so I can be as pissed as I please.

Oh, and Monte, I did what you said, checked the Properties, and (why am I not surprised) there is no way to set the Region Code to 0. The only choice is to pick a city and it picks the code for you, everything BUT 0. Nazi bastards.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 01-25-2006, 10:21 AM:

Be careful messing with the regiond code on the DVD-ROM also. The number of times mine can be changed is not 4, but 1. And it plainly states that when that number reaches 0, you cannot change it again, even if you re-install Windows or put the device in a new computer.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-25-2006, 12:22 PM:

I'm guessing that the reason(s) Microsoft doesn't include DVD playback codecs in the OS are 1) MS doesn't make DVD drives or configured PCs. It's up to whoever puts the PC together for retail sale to make sure it comes with everything it needs; and 2) They might have to pay to license the codec, which would be redundant considering that many DVD drives sold at retail for use in a PC come with DVD playback software.

Those are just a couple guesses.

Region-restricted playback can be easily defeated. Do some googling.

There's some official Microsoft info on DVD codecs here.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-25-2006, 01:10 PM:

That's why something like Slysoft's AnyDVD is great - install it and you can set any region you like as many times as you like. It also decrypts and disables CSS and Macrovision, allowing you to make backup copies for personal use as is your right under Fair Use, DCMA be damned.

Frank, what'd you expect? [Wink]

We're talking about PCs here. Name another industry that can sell you incomplete hardware and buggy software, call it a turnkey package ready to plug and play, then demand that you the end user be savvy enough to fix/cleanup/patch the product enough to be able to use it. And if you can't do that, why you're just a "user" (computer geek/nerd pejorative), a whiney/ignorant/lazy/stupid slob unworthy of a superior geek/nerd's time. But they'll take your money just the same, then go in the back room and laugh as they watch you struggle with their half-baked crap.

Me? I'm an end user and I've got work to do. If the geek/nerds want to sell me a tool that they claim will make my job easier, I'm all ears. But if their toys take more time and trouble just to get them to work, let alone learn, than it does for me to do my work, they can take their toys and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. I've got more important/pleasant things to do than morph into a another geek/nerd playing with half-assed toys.

Oops! Time to go geek over some 35/70mm toys, much cooler than any PC. [Big Grin]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-25-2006, 02:03 PM:

Recently Circuit City and Good Guys have introduced a new sales strategy for PCs. They flat out tell prospective buyers that their brand new PC will be "broken" out of the box, that it will include a bunch of bloatware, will not have all the Windows updates installed, etc. For a fee they will nuke and pave the system with a clean version of the OS, install all the Windows updates, make sure all the device drivers are current and working, etc. What gets me about this is they're right! Most PCs sold as packaged systems are total crap right out of the box, and the end user can't nuke-and-pave even if they want to or know how to because a "real" XP install CD usually isn't included with the new PC. Nor are the necessary device drivers.

It's not just Windows either. My dad just bought a brand new iMac. Since he's on dialup, he had to buy the external modem for it. He ordered all this online because he lives in the sticks. So he gets the new computer, and there's a note with the modem saying it requires OS 10.4.3 (or whatever the OX X version numbers are). Guess what version of the OS is installed on the brand new iMac? You guessed it: 10.4.2. So he calls Apple and they tell him he has to download the 10.4.3 update, burn it to CD, and upgrade the OS himself. USING WHAT????? His old notebook PC that can't get a reliable modem connection faster than about 20kbps. At that rate, it will take him a full day to download the update, if it works at all (he tried, and it failed). And he doesn't have a CD burner and wouldn't know how to use it if he did. So he asked Apple to send him the update on CD, and they said they couldn't do that! WTF! I downloaded the update on a PC and burned it and mailed it to him, but it didn't install the way Apple tech support said it would. He had to call them again and they walked him through it.

What a crock!

So don't ever get the idea that these problems are isolated to WinTel machines. Apple users go through the same crap.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-25-2006, 04:58 PM:

I know I haven't had that sort of issue with Macs.

The closest problem I've had has been moving older programs over to newer systems. Like when I moved programs from my SE/30 over to my iMac...incompatable drives and such were the hold up. I eventually was able to do it but it was not a piece of cake.

One thing I know I didn't like about the Mac change is when OS X came out...it really put the screws to those programs that came before OS X. Sure you can run OS 9.2 with OS X but what a price to pay on boot up just to support some beloved older runs fast does the job program!

Then again, I still have some DOS apps for the PC and XP has pretty much made them a Hit or Miss proposition...even with Virtual PC. Some deal, some dont.

Steve

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-25-2006, 05:18 PM:

Why would a modem require a particular OS version? Modems are pretty generic devices, except for crappy Winmodems (is there such a thing as a "Macmodem"?), but I don't think that anyone makes an external Winmodem.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-25-2006, 05:31 PM:

Well as long as I'm bashing Apple [Razz]

A long time ago (relatively speaking) my dad bought one of the first-generation iMacs. What a piece of junk! It locked up all the time. The official Apple fix for that problem was one firmware update after another, along with OS updates (this was OS 9). None of these "fixes" ever really fixed it either. [thumbsdown]

We had a couple of those iMacs where I used to work too, and they were always unstable.

Here's an anecdote that proves nothing, but it makes me feel good about using Dell PCs. [Wink]

We had an electrician at our office to add a couple more circuits to one area. He's working on the breaker panel and accidentally pinches a wire against the panel. This caused a big "SNAP!" and blew the main breaker in the basement that feeds the entire 2nd floor (more tenants than just us). At the time we had 40+ PCs and a half-dozen servers running. The servers are on UPSs, but not the PCs. Well all the PCs abruptly shut off of course. We finally restored the power, and every PC came right back up with no problem. Nothing was lost.

But one of the other tenants has a Mac G-Something-or-other (G4? G5?). It wouldn't boot when power was restored. Dead. Nothing. Could have been a fuse in the power supply I suppose. He took it to the Mac Store, who replaced the power supply. He was pissed! Being a lawyer, he demanded that the electrician pay not only for the repair, but for 8 full hours of lost work. I never did hear how that was resolved.

Scott: You'd have to ask Apple. The modem came with a notice saying it wasn't going to work with anything less than 10.4.3, and when my dad tried it anyway, it didn't work. Post-update, the modem worked fine.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 01-25-2006, 08:56 PM:

Dave--sounds like that tenant got [sex]

'd big time! If the store had the customer in mind, there's a much easier fix they could have tried...

One day my G4/866 just would not power up. Thinking the power supply was bad, I removed it and started calling around to locate a replacement. (Kind of difficult on a Saturday afternoon.) The last place I called, the bookstore at the university I work at, luckily had the one I needed in stock.

While on the phone, the technician asked about the nature of the problem...turns out a power glitch could confuse the power-management system and prevent the computer from starting up. The solution? Open up the computer...and press a reset button on the motherboard. Back in went the power supply and, after pressing said button, the computer sprang to life when the power button was pressed.

Removing and replacing the power supply was a waste of time in hindsight, but the right help saved me some $80.00 on a power supply (not to mention the extortionate tech rates I would have paid had I not been able to do the R&R myself).

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-30-2006, 11:36 AM:

Jon, yeah, I don't know what the real problem was. A guy I work with who's Mac-savvy suggested removing the battery from the motherboard for a while so it would drain the CMOS settings and force a hard reset. Mr. Lawyer Guy was too impatient to try that.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-30-2006, 01:07 PM:

Kinda interesting that APPLE didn't place that reset button on the OUTSIDE of the case for easy access and mentioned this in the owners manual when systems that needed resetting...

Or..is this a marketing/service ploy of APPLE to snare more sales by "hiding" this button from the consumer by having the consumer think that their system went "Ka_Plooie!" since it didn't fire back up.