Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Active Crossovers for Hi Fi speakers

This is topic Active Crossovers for Hi Fi speakers in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 08-13-2007, 07:00 AM:

Looking around the net there do not seem to be many people using active speaker setups. Why do alot of Hi Fi people seem to favour passive crossovers? I can't see it being a cost thing as some of the setups you see would cost a fourtune. The reason I am asking as I am building a set of 4 way active speakers using a 4th order active crossover but you don't see alot of this style of thing out there. Sure its alot of added expense in some ways but if you construct the amps yourself (which I am) its not that bad.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-13-2007, 10:35 AM:

If a crossover (passive) can be designed for a particular speaker system, it can do VERY well and even outperform active alternatives. When ever you add an active component, you have created a source for noise and distortion to be added. One must weight the benefits vs problems to see which side is stronger.

Most consumers will not want to deal with multiple speaker lines which, if hooked incorrectly will damage their speakers (and of course make a warranty claim). In the video world, composite and S-Video have done better at penetrating the market than component for this reason...component has three cables and they can be hooked wrong and dispite the "Y" label, no wire color is yellow in component! This is also the reason HDMI is a single cable/connector solution.

So that is more or less the reason you don't see many active solutions for consumer based speakers. The Crossovers are designed for the specific speaker giving it a good crossover with less noise/distortion and it also keeps it a single cable solution.

Don't get me wrong...there are some crap crossovers just like there are for cinema speakers (by and large) in the consumer world too. However, as you get into high-end speakers, the crossovers normally get much better and are designed for a specific speaker.

Have you picked out a 4-way active crossover yet?

Steve

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 08-13-2007, 12:20 PM:

The few HiFi speakers with active crossovers tend to be self-amplified, too. This is probably a marketing expedient to match up with their customers' existing equipment without needing extra channels of amplification and introducing level matching and other problems.

Are you going for 4th order acoustic response, or using a 4th order electronic XO well into the drivers' passbands?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-13-2007, 02:20 PM:

The best place to find a decent design is to go to www.diyaudio.com and do a search. There have been some excellent active x-over designs done by people on there. I have boards to build a really nice three way x-over but haven't gotten around to it yet. You'll find some of the top audio designers in the world on that site and they are usually more than willing to help you with your design.

Mark

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 08-14-2007, 04:49 AM:

I frequent DIY Audio all the time, very good site and very informative, although I find sometimes the truth gets buried among all of the audiophile talk.

I am going with 4th order electronic X over and going to use this design- 24db/Octave Linkwitz-Riley Crossover and the sub sections of each cabinet will use this design with a 12inch driver- Linkwtiz Transform Subwoofer EQ

Why do I read its so hard to align 4th order active systems?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-14-2007, 06:48 AM:

If you are looking for an "out of the box" solution...give Rane a try . They have 2-way, 3-way and 4-way solutions in analog as well as digital products.

In addition to their purpose built products, their RPM line will let you construct a 4-way crossover too.

Steve

[Edited to fix a bad link]

[ 08-14-2007, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 08-14-2007, 10:01 AM:

Rod Elliot is the man! as far as I know there is a good reason why so many on DIY audio use his products and are so passionate about them, web when you buy the circuit board, he gives you access to detailed info in a secure part of his site. he is a legend! He was involved and helped with the Lenard Project at the Chauvel.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-14-2007, 07:04 PM:

Rod is a great engineer and sometimes makes unscheduled appearances on DIY. He always seems willing to be very helpful and completely willing to give of his time.

Being able to purchase just the PCB is a big advantage as you're not stuck with what is sometimes a bargain bin of parts when you purchase boards with parts kits from other places. You can get the board and purchase the parts at any level of quality you wish.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-18-2007, 01:00 PM:

Paul,
Here is a link to an active x-over that I have a set of boards for. This is a top notch crossover and is configurable for just about anything.

Thread

Manual with all formulas

Schematic

WIKI

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 08-24-2007, 10:52 PM:

Hi Mark

That looks pretty similar to the design that ESP has the boards for. Did they include the Linkwitz transform circuit on the same PCB as the crossover? That is what I will be using for the sub bass section of the cabinets. Just finshing up the design and then I have to give it to a cabinet maker friend who is going to cut the MDF for me and then I will assemble it all. I have 2 of the 8 amps built, just going to have some lunch and then start on another one.

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 03-21-2008, 06:26 AM:

Here are a couple of photos of my finished active 4 ways. The crossover/preamp is pretty much finished and looks really good since I had the front panel laser engraved. I have built 4 of the 8 amp modules, but am thinking I might speed things up by building some chip amps to run the lower, upper voice and harmonics sections and putting together my ESP P101 amp boards to run the sub sections as originally planned. They sound amazing from the tests I have done so far, they have the sense of someone being in the room, unlike any speaker I have ever heard! The first photo is when they were pretty much done, just giving them a coat of bees wax, very happy with how the veneer turned out having never done it before.

I will post the photos of my crossover I built and amps when that is done.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 03-21-2008, 08:37 AM:

I have to hear this! [Eek!]

excellent work.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-21-2008, 06:52 PM:

NICE!

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-01-2008, 06:20 PM:

Very Nice, Did you use Peerless drivers?

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 04-02-2008, 09:00 AM:

Hi Cameron, long time no talk! Yeh I used Peerless drivers, the HDS Nomex series and SLS series subs.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-02-2008, 10:38 PM:

Nice! Lets see pics of the x-over....

Mark