quote:

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November 14

Accepted (HD DVD)
ATL (Blu-ray)
Barry Manilow: Manilow Live! (HD DVD)
Behind Enemy Lines (Blu-ray)
Black Hawk Down (Blu-ray)
Casablanca (HD DVD)
Chicago And Earth, Wind & Fire: Live At The Greek (HD DVD)
Cream: Live At The Royal Albert Hall (HD DVD)
Da Vinci Code, The (Blu-ray)
Eagles: Farewell I Tour Live In Melbourne (HD DVD)
Fantastic Four (Blu-ray)
Forbidden Planet (HD DVD)
Forbidden Planet (Ultimate Collector’s Edition, HD DVD)
Heart: Live In Seattle (HD DVD)
James Taylor: A MusiCares Person Of The Year Tribute (HD DVD)
King Kong (2005, HD DVD)
Kingdom Of Heaven (Director’s Cut, Blu-ray)
Kiss Of The Dragon (Blu-ray)
Last Samurai, The (Blu-ray)
Layer Cake (Blu-ray)
League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The (Blu-ray)
Million Dollar Baby (Blu-ray)
Mutiny On The Bounty (1962, HD DVD)
Omen, The (2006, Blu-ray)
Speed (Blu-ray)
Transporter, The (Blu-ray)
Waterworld (HD DVD)

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quote: Mike Schindler

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Bobby, I'm not 100% sure of all the technical stuff, but I think 1080p is possible with the current HDMI generation.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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As for HDTV, I'm willing to spend oh, maybe around $500 on a new set. When they hit that point for about 60 inches, I'm in.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Why in the world do we have to use a spinning disk for all this stuff anyway? I predict that within 10 years, storage will be so cheap and plentiful that you'll be able to just play movies off of a stick or something.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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When has a TV that big ever been that cheap?

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quote: Mark Gulbrandson

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Since I like to embrace new technology from time to time I will probably buy one but would like to know if they only have an HDMI output. My tv uses RGBHV input for HD.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Very few devices on the market have HDMI 1.3 connections. Even the new Playstation 3, due to hit store shelves on 11/17, doesn't even have them. PS3 was too far along in production to incorporate the new standard.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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According to the Tom's Hardware website, Playstation 3 does not have any HDMI 1.3 connections. They are only HDMI 1.1. So beware of the first batch of those consoles at the very least.

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quote:

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Furthermore, the PS3 is the first A/V device to hit the market to utilize the HDMI 1.3 specification. That doesn't mean much now--there's no corresponding HDMI 1.3 products to connect it to. But in the future--2007 and beyond--that should enable to PS3 to pass HD video and next-gen surround-sound audio (such as Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD) to compatible A/V receivers via a single HDMI cable. In the meantime, the PS3, like other Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, can pass 1080p HD video and uncompressed LPCM surround soundtracks to compatible A/V receivers and TVs.

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quote:

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The others do HD over component as well. The thing that everyone's worried about is that future movies will use the Image Restraint Token, or whatever it's called, which would limit the resolution over component to 540p.

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quote: Frank Angel

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WHAT?!! Can someone elaborate on THIS? Is this just another form of the studios still wanting to regulate what they've already sold you?

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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If any device in the home theater setup has HDMI 1.1 connections, then true 1080p is impossible. Same goes for delivery of Dolby True HD 5.1 signals.

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quote: Martin Brooks

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The other thing I've read recently is that not a single HD or BluRay DVD released to date has 5.1 True HD. Most just have Dolby Digital Plus and the ones that have True HD only have it in 2-channel. What's the story on that?

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Although it was originally described as "bullet proof," the encryption code devised to prevent the copying of high-definition DVD's using Toshiba's HD DVD system may have been broken.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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So then you copy a "rented" HD DVD on to a blank HD DVD at a cost of what? $20? $25? plus the cost of the rental (even netflix costs money) plus the cost of the initial HD DVD writer...where does this even begin to make financial sense? When HD DVD's drop to under $5 each, then teach me how....

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quote: Joel N. Weber II

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Some of us like to play movies we've legitimately paid to buy or rent on our computers, and like to have the source code for everything that runs on our computers.

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What are you, some kind of a wise-ass?....you are supposed to just PLAY WHAT THE COMPANY WANTS YOU TO, AT WHATEVER RESOLUTION THEY WANT. You want to have the source code for everything that runs on your computer? Are you some kind of unAmerican commie or something? Why can't you just be happy and dumb like the rest of the populous and leave all that technical stuff to the HD Security Nazis?
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-11-2007, 08:57 AM:
 
Sooo the latest things in this format war are not only a dual format player, but also a dual format disk. How the heck does THAT work??

Well, apparently, according to the guys over at the digital bits, the new disk does work. It even works in the dual format player. Imagine that. All this so Warner Brothers can continue to produce disks that satisfy both formats, but now they don't have to produce two different disks to do it.

I have to admit, I saw the dual format player coming, assuming someone could get the licensing from both parties that allowed them to do it. I never expected a dual format disk.

Read more about it here, but be warned, this link points to the latest article, so soon it won't point to this one. Here's the text:

quote:

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Well... I have to tell you I was highly skeptical going into Warner's Total Hi Definition (THD) press event last night. I still think the success of Total HD is going to depend on the studio being able to match performance with promises. But if they can... color me impressed.

As expected, Day Three of CES was capped off by a lavish evening reception and press event at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, where Warner Home Video announced the introduction of a new hybrid high-definition disc... the Total HD. Attending the event with me (among the many industry observers on hand) were Ed Peters of DVD Review, Chris Chiarella from Home Theater Magazine and Shane Buettner from Ultimate AV. I think it's fair to say that all of us were skeptical of Warner's announcement, based on what we expected going in. But that began to change when certain things were revealed at the event.

Here's the nitty gritty: Warner's THD disc will appear at retail starting in the second half of 2007. The discs will contain both an HD-DVD component and a Blu-ray Disc component on the same disc, and the movie and extras content will be exactly the same on each. No price was announced, but WHV president Ron Sanders claims that while he thinks consumers would be willing to "pay a little more" for the security of having a disc that's format war proof, the price "won't be very much more than current HD-DVDs and Blu-ray Discs." He also added that, "We're looking at this thing to consolidate SKU counts - Warner will only release in THD once we get up and running." Warner's senior vice president for marketing management, Steve Nickerson, actually demonstrated on stage a test THD disc containing clips from Superman Returns in both an HD-DVD player, a Blu-ray Disc player and LG's new Super Multi Blue combo player, and it worked perfectly in each (the Super Multi Blue player defaulted to Blu-ray in the demonstration). Surprisingly (though this remains to be proven), Nickerson claimed that each format on the disc will be "full capacity", meaning that you can include both single layer and dual layers for BOTH formats (either 15 or 30GB on the HD-DVD side and 25 or 50GB on the Blu-ray side). We believe THDs will include the different formats on either side of the disc.

Here's the even bigger surprise: Representatives of both New Line and HBO were on hand at the event... and they pledged to begin supporting THD in 2007. New Line's Steve Einhorn commented, "We plan to completely support THD specifically. This will move our schedule ahead considerably." In response to a question from the audience as to whether this means New Line will release the Lord of the Rings films in THD, he added that the studio was "working on it now", that the titles were "high on their agenda" and that they were "looking at the right time and venue" for the release.

Kevin Tsujihara, president of the Warner Home Entertainment Group, also indicated that THD "wasn't done to create a new revenue stream for Warner." Rather they did this as a solution to retailers and consumers in response to the format war. Licensing fees will not be paid to Warner for THD - they're paid instead to the HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc groups just as they would be for releases on either of those formats. Nickerson also added that the replication costs aren't that much higher than regular high-def discs. It was also revealed that the replication equipment to create THD discs is the same as is used to create regular HD-DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, so any replicator with both can produce THDs.

Tsujihara and Sanders produced statistics that they believe support their THD efforts, including that 49% of all consumers surveyed said they would be more likely to adopt high-definition on disc given the choice of THD. They cited projections indicating that there will be 55 million HDTV households in 2007, and 80 million by the end of 2008. They also cited HD-DVD Promotion Group numbers indicating that 2.5 million HD-DVD capable devices will be in homes in 2007, while the Blu-ray Disc Association claims that 6.2 million Blu-ray capable devices will arrive in homes in 2007 (numbers for both formats include game systems). Added to the 775,000 high def players (of both formats) that are reportedly already in homes, that makes a whopping 9 million high def players by the end of 2007... and THDs will work in all of them, regardless of format. By comparison, at the end of DVD's first year, only 1.9 million players were in consumers' homes - a sign (they believe) that the adoption of high-definition discs could be even bigger than DVD.

Like I said, it still remains to be seen if Warner can pull this off technically. With multiple layers and two formats on each disc, there's the potential for compatibility problems. One also wonders if other studios would support it (Tsujihara claims other studios are "evaluating" the format). But just the fact that THD brings New Line into the high-def fray alone is a big deal. As Warner admits, even if THD is only a temporary solution for consumers in the format war... it will still help to pull those consumers in from the sidelines sooner. And if it ultimately turns out that either Blu-ray or HD-DVD wins the format war... those consumers will still have THD discs that work on the winning format's hardware.

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 02-08-2007, 01:28 PM:
 
This is what I get for not wandering into The Afterlife often enough...

Last summer, I was prepared to sit the format war out. I was happy with my front projection system and my HD-TiVo, as my projector is pretty good at upsampling DVD's. I had HBO-HD for a little while, but now I've just got the standard DirecTV HD package (so for movies, I've got HDNet Movies channel). No need to hurry into this format war the studios have decided to wage on consumers, for fear of being on the wrong side of a losing battle, right?

Then, I started to do some more research. As a home theater hobbyist, a technology person in general, and a big movie fan, I couldn't stay away from reading about it at the very least.

The picture quality is the easy thing to talk about because it's simpler to understand and easy to see a good picture. If you're accustomed to watching HD, whether over the air broadcasts of football games, etc. or DirecTV's "HD lite," you know the difference between upsampled DVD and HD quality. The difference in picture quality isn't night and day when going from SD to HD, but when you're used to HD, SD isn't good enough.

Reading about the audio specs got me very interested. I liked the idea that the new formats were going to bring more capability to movies, approaching or exceeding the quality of SACD and DVD-Audio. Right around the end of September or so, Toshiba upgraded the firmware on their first generation units to support multi-channel Dolby TrueHD soundtracks. This update could be done via the internet-connected ethernet jack.

I bought a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player at the end of September. My first HD DVD movie was Batman Begins, and it was pretty impressive! In addition to the picture quality and the audio quality, HD DVD provides for some very interesting additional content, such as a true picture-in-picture running commentary and a few things I still haven't fully explored yet.

My primary rationalization for buying the player was that it was a good price (less than $400), I wanted to get a second DVD player for the room anyway, and if I kept to renting discs instead of buying them, I'd lower my exposure in the case that HD DVD didn't win the war.

Now, four months later, I don't regret the decision at all. I'm still working on configuring the sound to get the best possible from it with my receiver, but the PQ is incredible. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Batman Begins was the only HD DVD I owned, keeping to my original thought of renting everything from Netflix. I decided that there were a couple of discs that I'd like to have around as demo material, so I picked up King Kong and The Bourne Supremacy on sale.

Based on the reports from CES, and Universal's staunch refusal to support Blu-ray, I've got a feeling that we'll never see a clear winner in this war. Rather than a VHS vs. Beta situation, or even a SACD vs. DVD-Audio situation, I think we'll have a DVD-R vs. DVD+R situation. Both formats will continue to be produced and supported by the various companies involved. There are big guns on both sides, and neither is showing any signs of faltering.

Rather than sit on the sidelines, I picked a side from which to watch and enjoy movies. If the prices of the Blu-ray hardware comes down to a reasonable level, and they produce a player that's able to support the features the format is capable of, all it will take is for the movies that I really want to see to be released only on Blu-ray for me to start looking at Blu-ray players seriously.

If a person is happy with DVD, that's great. When I first got my projector, I was happy with SD DirecTV. My eyes hadn't become accustomed to what better content would look like. Once I spent a couple of months watching HD, SD was no longer acceptable. DVD's are still acceptable, but HD DVD is my preferred movie watching format.

I'm watching Casablanca, and I'm amazed at the clarity of a movie that was made so many years ago. Same goes for The Searchers. These movies actually are more impressive to look at in some ways than new movies like MI:3.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-08-2007, 06:49 PM:
 
I'm waiting for a couple of things to happen:
1. Dual format players become common, and at more affordable price points.
2. Some issues with computer monitor input support being sorted out with new HDTV monitors.

Both problems will take at least several months to solve.

It does seem pretty certain both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will survive as stalemated formats. The movie studios show no sign whatsoever on supporting a single format. Some are hardline Blu-Ray supporters (Fox, Disney, Sony) and some are hardliners for the HD-DVD camp (Universal, Paramount). Pretty easy math.

Multiple formats seem to be much more the rule than the exception. There are many examples of multiple formats, platforms and other digital standards duking it out over the same turf. It would be much more of a rare thing for any one single standard to live on its own.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-08-2007, 07:22 PM:
 
I am tempted to get the $200 HD-DVD attachment for the Xbox360, but I can't quite seem to make myself take the plunge. Maybe it is because it comes with King Kong, and I wish for nobody to die more than Jack Black.
 

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Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 02-08-2007, 08:25 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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some are hardliners for the HD-DVD camp (Universal, Paramount).

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quote: Scott Jentsch

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Universal's staunch refusal to support Blu-ray

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quote: Sam Graham

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Warner has come up with another solution...dual format discs.

The new discs, called "THD" ("Total Hi Def") are two-sided dual-layer discs that have HD-DVD on one side and Blu-ray on the other.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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I am tempted to get the $200 HD-DVD attachment for the Xbox360, but I can't quite seem to make myself take the plunge. Maybe it is because it comes with King Kong, and I wish for nobody to die more than Jack Black.

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• King Kong is a really good demo disc. Just skip to all the scenes with Kong and Naomi Watts in them. The scene in New York when she walks up to him on the street is a fabulous demo of the HD format.
• You can sell the disc outright on eBay for close to the $22 retail I got mine for. Keep it in the wrapper, and you'll get at least $17-20 for it. Open it, and you can get $12-15.

quote: Steve Guttag

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will the DVD-HD output 1080 on Component outputs?

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quote: Joe Redifer

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But isn't Dolby TruHD (proper spelling, most likely) way the hell better than wimpy-ass uncompressed PCM?

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• BD-J holding up lots of Warner titles? -- AVS Forum
• Are current 1st Gen Bluray Players Obsolete? -- HDNow Online

quote: Steve Guttag

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will the DVD-HD output 1080 on Component outputs

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quote: Mike Schindler

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Scott, depending on your price range, you may want to look into the PS3 as a Blu-ray player. A lot of people are saying it's the best one out there, and at $600, it's also the least expensive.

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quote: Paul Gordon

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in 5 years all disc formats will be dead, people will simply download flicks, or get them on demand from their cable provider

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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The best part about Blue Ray is that its storage density is high enough to also support other as of yet designed playback formats. It may also eventually be the supported distribution method for D-Cinema.

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quote:

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Just wait for Internet II!!

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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While Blu-Ray definitely has the file storage capacity and bitrate bandwidth advantage over HD-DVD, it really honestly sucks amphibian crap compared to what is currently delivered to D-Cinema capable theaters.

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Bobby,
There is nobody stopping you from buying a D-Cinema setup for your home. In fact I know a west coast dealer that has done several home installs of the large Barco projector. Thats an expensive television set though
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2007, 04:48 PM:
 
Yup, anyone with deep enough pockets can put together a screening room with professional commercial theater gear. But it's hardly practical for the other 99.999% of the population.

Something like Blu-Ray would be "good enough" for my home. Right now I seem to be doing just fine with 480p DVD. The much higher video bit rates along with discrete 3-chip DLP in a commercial projector versus rainbow color wheel one-chip DLP are pretty significant difference makers between the cinema and home. Unfortunately a lot of sales droids in the average Best Buy and Circuit City will overlook those details and proclaim "this stuff is equal or better than what's available in movie theaters! Buy it!"
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-07-2007, 06:39 PM:
 
I'm getting ready to jump in... using someone else's money of course.

Currently spec'ing a portable system for use at the local chapter JACL film screenings. Learning how to write grant requests to see if we can get this project funded. Looking at the Panasonic PT-AE1000U for the projector, which is a 3-LCD 1920x1080p native machine. Haven't narrowed down the field for the playback yet, though I'm leaning towards an HTPC at this point. LG has their BH-100 dual-format players out now too, for about $1200 on the street.

Apparently Blu-ray is out-selling HD-DVD 9-1 both in Japan and in the US, which at least makes the format decision an easy one. That and Buena Vista, which releases all of the Studio Ghibli animated stuff that I'm such a nut about, is strictly in the Blu-ray camp.

[ 04-07-2007, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2007, 07:16 PM:
 
If it weren't for movie studios like Universal Pictures and Paramount backing HD-DVD only (not to mention companies like Microsoft doing what they can to promote it) the format decision would be very easy in the favor of Blu-Ray. Warner Bros. is slanted heavily in favor of HD-DVD as well, even though it is releasing some movies in Blu-Ray and "Total-HD" formats.

It's interesting to see just how extremely lopsided sales figures are in favor of Blu-Ray releases. Still, I would feel far better getting a disc player which could play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs.
 

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Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 04-07-2007, 07:47 PM:
 
Paramount has been releasing BD's for quite some time now.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-08-2007, 09:39 AM:
 

quote: Paul Mayer

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Apparently Blu-ray is out-selling HD-DVD 9-1

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Thats because someone actually bought a Toshiba player... and Sony gave away 9 of their BRDP's to appease those Laptop battery explosion folks.

Mark
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-08-2007, 10:47 AM:
 
A few weeks ago the Hi-Def Digest reported that Casino Royale became the first hi-def disc title to ship over 100,000 units, as well as the first hi-def disc to make it onto Amazon's Top 10 sales list. So someone is buying these things.

Of course now I can't find where that "9-1" sales ratio quote came from. But other stories since the first of the year peg the sales ratio at anywhere from 50 to 70% in favor of Blu-ray over HD DVD.

Still, the format war will continue for a while. In my small niche of the anime market, some long-hoped-for titles like The Wings of Honneamise are slated only for HD DVD release in the US, while getting a dual-format release in Japan. Looks like I'll be continuing to consider imports for a while longer.

Some recent Hi-Def Digest links:

Mar 28: HD DVD Promotions Group Touts 2007 Release Line-Up; Reveals More Upcoming Titles

Mar 27: 'Casino Royale' Blu-ray Breaks 100,000 Unit Milestone (UPDATED)

Mar 9: February Disc Sales: Blu-ray Continues to Outsell HD DVD; 'Departed' Offers Head-to-Head Sales Comparison
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-08-2007, 12:53 PM:
 
As of April 1st. Toshiba dropped the prices by $100 dollars on their HD-DVD decks. So their A-2 deck is list priced at $399 now. Which makes it the first deck available under $400 dollars, while Sony is still at the $799-$999 range. There may be problems for those who bought the first generation Blu-ray decks with future discs.

Sony is dumping all those titles on the market to make the early buyers feel they got the right format. Till the they find the rest of the problems with there deck in there rush to win the market.
 

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Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 04-08-2007, 03:18 PM:
 
Sony has also been cultivating potential blue-ray buyers via the system's inclusion in Playstation 3 consoles and their higher end PC's. Having the Playstation 3 come with a blu ray player will automatically aim a prime demographic towards the format. Miscrosoft has an external HD player add on for their 360 console, but that approach is obviously less effective than having the player come standard.

Personally, I have a blue ray player on my laptop, but I can't say I've ever actually used it.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-09-2007, 05:34 PM:
 
The debate between HD DVD and Blu-ray amongst enthusiasts rivals some of the strongest Dolby Digital vs. DTS debates from years past.

The Blu-ray companies have been doing their best to stoke the fire by releasing "we're winning / we've already won" press releases every couple of weeks. The HD DVD camp has been relatively quiet on the side of press releases, but they have dropped the MSRP on their players just recently.

Blu-ray has gained a lot of steam since November/December with the release of the Playstation 3 and several other Blu-ray players, which were delayed through much of the 2nd half of 2006.

By my count, there were 27 HD DVD titles released in the first quarter of 2007 vs. 71 Blu-ray titles. Of those 5 and 21 were day-and-date releases, respectively, which I think has a great affect on the initial popularity of a release on either format.

This disparity has fueled Blu-ray software sales and given the Blu-ray companies plenty of ammunition for their press releases.

What they don't mention is the fact that many of the Fox releases that weighed so heavily in January when they were announced have been delayed or cancelled. They also don't mention that their cheapest standalone player available still has an MSRP of $899 (Samsung BD-P1000). The Playstation 3 is the cheapest overall at $599 for the 60GB model (the 20GB model is generally unavailable), but since it doesn't have a standard IR remote, it doesn't work well for those of us with programmable remotes and a wish to use only one remote for controlling their equipment.

What they also fail to mention is that the Blu-ray platform is difficult for software developers to program for. Different players treat the BD-Java language differently, so doing menus and any advanced type of interactive content is going to be more difficult than these people have experienced before. Most if not all players are not capable of dual video streams, so PIP commentaries and features are not possible at this time. (Descent actually puts two full versions of the movie on the disc to provide PIP commentary on the second version)

On paper, Blu-ray should win the war. Based on specs alone, they should have trounced HD DVD last year already. But in reality, they've had trouble getting players released, the studios are having trouble releasing movies on time, and the players are priced much higher than HD DVD players.

That's why you can't choose a side based on promises, announcements, and assumptions based on which studio is supporting which format. You can only make choices based on what's available now, and right now, I think the advantage based on reality is in HD DVD's favor.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-10-2007, 12:11 AM:
 
Technically speaking, Blu-Ray is the superior format.

But software drives any new platform, not hardware. If every studio released their movies equally on both formats Blu-Ray would likely have an even greater chance at winning (right now we're still in early adopter territory where specifications do matter more than sheer price). However, neither format can really stake out a victory when various studios are choosing to support one or the other format exclusively.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-10-2007, 01:07 AM:
 
I had another look in HMV in Birmingham about two weeks ago. Number of HDDVD titles on offer is now up to about 30, but no sign of any Blu-ray; previously there were about equal numbers of each. I think it's unlikely that they have sold out, and there was no empty space where they should have been, so I don't know what's going on. I don't know anybody who's got a player, and I haven't seen one in the shops, but the PS3 is now available over here, so that may give Blue-ray a boost

There are plenty of 'HD ready' televisions in the shops, there's one at work, in a roo just a couple of doors down from my office, but the only HD material I've got that I could try it with is still the couple of clips from the BBC that I've got on my laptop, the same ones that I tried on the digital installation at the cinema. Even these now seem to have gone from the BBC website.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-10-2007, 12:40 PM:
 
Once you become accustomed to HD, standard definition is no longer as watchable as it once was.

I compare it to when I used to record things in VHS 6-hour mode and thought it was just fine. But, after I started to do some recordings in 2-hour mode, 6-hour mode was no longer acceptable.

I get comments all the time from friends and family about how HD isn't necessary and they aren't interested in it. Even after doing some demonstrations, some don't always appreciate the enhancements that HD provides. This happens more with comparing DVD to HD DVD than with broadcast SDTV vs. HDTV because the differences are more subtle. Broadcast SDTV has been butchered so badly by cable and satellite alike that the jump to real broadcast HDTV can be stunning. (I have a clip from the Tonight Show recorded on my HD TiVo for just such a demo).

It is this perception that DVD is "good enough" that is a tough hill for HD DVD and Blu-ray to climb. That's why I think the interactivity side of things plays an important part. Seeing the menu displayed while the movie is playing and seeing Morgan Freeman talking about a scene he's in is something that's tangible that people can see is different from DVD.

If you have an HD television or projector and you are a movie fan, you owe it to yourself to check out HD DVD or Blu-ray. The Toshiba HD-A2 is $310 at Amazon.com right now (plus you get 5 movies for free by mail), and Netflix memberships start at $4.99 per month, so the price of admission is very low.

Even if Blu-ray becomes the final victor, I will not regret purchasing the Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player. It's a very good upsampling DVD player as well, but watching HD movies are phenomenal! Once you start seeing things in HD, you want everything to be in HD!
 

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Posted by Forrest Lee (Member # 4035) on 04-11-2007, 05:22 PM:
 
I'd love to get one but I need a whole lot more money first. I have insurance to pay.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-11-2007, 05:48 PM:
 

quote:

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Once you start seeing things in HD, you want everything to be in HD!

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Scott is right, I got a Toshiba HD-A2 2 weeks ago. And seeing how well this deck runs on different displays. Right now it's at work running a Sony SRX-R105 projector, the pictures looks amazing.
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-15-2007, 02:58 PM:
 
BJ Club & Costco has had the Toshiba HD-D2 player on sale for $250 for the last month or so. Broke down and bought one, connected it to my Benq 8700+ DLP front projector, on to a 10' wide home screen. I have to say I am impressed. In fact, I am very impressed.

The HD-D2 is the same as the HD-A2, with a different model number so that stores would not have to beat the discounters prices.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-15-2007, 05:07 PM:
 
I think I'll stay away from HD-DVD. No need to purchase a losing format.
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 06-17-2007, 04:17 AM:
 
Toshiba has now lowered the price of its A2 machine to 299 before tax, and their next generation machines, as well as the first generation machines with firmware upgrades will be able to run something called X3 discs.

X3 allows a regular DVD disk on a regular DVD burner to produce HD content readable by the Toshiba player. This will tap into the market of those that don't want to pony up the heavy duty cash for the blu ray recorders and players.

Sony has had bad luck trying to win technology wars before, and they really blew it with the PS3 deal, but I do hope they can pull this thing out and introduce some new bells and whistles, as well as get the price down.

I have seen that Sony is dropping the MSRP of thier flagship player to 599 in order to compete with Toshiba. They need to drop it even further.

I like the idea of a dual player, but the cost is really too high at 1200. I bought one of the first DVD players available at 1800 becuase I made 80 grand a year when they came out and I was a moron with cash. Now I make like 8 grand a year and won't bother with any maching that costs over 18 dollars.

Ciao
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-17-2007, 09:46 AM:
 
The PS3 is their flagship player. It does a lot better job than their stand-alone units. $499.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-17-2007, 11:44 AM:
 
DVD players originally cost $1800? Where did you buy that? IIRC my first player cost around $400 for the Toshiba and I want to say it was the first generation player but I can't be sure. But I dont recall ever seeing at Fry's electronics or the like a player for $1800.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-17-2007, 12:06 PM:
 
The first DVD players were released in the Spring and Summer of 1997. I do remember some high end DVD players commanding huge prices like $1800 or even more. A lot of the regular ones were priced at around $700. I remember one of Panasonic's models costing that.

I bought my first DVD player early in 1999, a Sony model with full Dolby Digital 5.1 analog output. It cost over $400. It didn't quite make it to the 3 year mark before I had to replace it with a new Pioneer 5-disc changer bought for $250. Now that DVD player is on the blink. Guess I'll probably just spend $50 for some other single disc unit.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-17-2007, 03:48 PM:
 
My toshiba that I bought back in the day still works great last time I used it, although now I've switched over to my DVD recorder/VHS combo, and a cheapie Cyberhome $20 unit for movies with closed captions, as the DVD recorder player doesn't support them for some reason. The cheapie unit occasionally gets pixellation problems on some discs but usually goes away after a bit.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-18-2007, 05:13 PM:
 
In a further illustration of how sales of the formats are going, Blockbuster announced today that their future (for now at least) hi-def rentals will be exclusively Blu-ray. From Forbes.com:

quote:

---

Market Scan
Blockbuster: Blu-ray All The Way
Evelyn M. Rusli, 06.18.07, 11:30 AM ET

In the high-definition DVD war between Blu-ray and HD DVD, Blu-ray is pulling ahead. On Monday, Blockbuster announced that its next batch of high definition DVDs will be exclusively offered in the Blu-ray format.

The Blu-ray boost, expected in mid-July, will feature 170 titles to be distributed at 1,700 Blockbuster (nyse: BBI) stores.

Shares of Blockbuster were up 2.4%, or 11 cents, to $4.69 in pre-market trading from $4.58, Friday's closing price on the news.

Since late 2006, the movie rental company has offered both formats at 250 stores across the country. Both formats were given equal billing, but Blockbuster soon realized that Blu-ray outsold its competitor by 70%.

Blockbuster will continue to rent the HD DVD titles it already offers and may expand its HD DVD inventory in the future but, for now, the company has placed all its chips on Blu-ray.

“We intend to meet the demands of our customers and based on the trends we’re seeing, we’re expanding our Blu-ray inventory to ensure our stories reflect the right level of products,” Blockbuster executive, Matthew Smith, said Monday.

Blockbuster’s news is a major victory for Sony (nyse: SNE), the maker of Blu-ray DVD players, which has been locked in a heated race with Toshiba (other-otc: TOSBF.PK), which makes the HD DVD players, to dominate the high definition market. The battle recalls the showdown between JVC's VHS and Sony's Betamax in the 1980s, when customers were forces to pick one format over the other. While all HD DVD and Blu-ray players can play standard DVDs, they can’t play competitor’s discs.

In the format war, Toshiba had the head start with the introduction of its player in March 2006. However, since then, Sony crept up on Toshiba by forging strategic alliances with movie studios. Blu-ray now has exclusive partnerships with a handful of studios including Sony's holdings, Disney and 20th Century Fox. In a bit of a role-reversal Sony looks like its borrowing a page straight from JVC's old playbook, when it courted major film studios to tighten the noose on Betamax.

The strategy seems to be working. This month, Sony predicted Blu-ray player sales could jump from 100,000 to 600,000 units in 2007 because of the popularity of DVDs exclusively released on the format. Meanwhile, Toshiba lowered its 2007 estimate 44.4% to 1.0 million units from 1.8 million.

Shares of Sony were flat on Monday morning, down 0.2%, or 12 cents, to $54.53.

-- The Associated Press contributed to this article.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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These "format war" HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray stories might be interesting to tuck away for a few years and then re-examine perhaps in 2012

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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Dec 2012 will be the end of time. The Universe is scheduled to end.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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I keep saying traditional video rental stores will be greatly threated by this.

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quote: Scott Jentsch

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Of course that could change if some must-have titles were released in the format exclusively, but so far, that hasn't happened.

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quote: Robin Harris

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It is all over but the shouting.

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quote: Robin Harris

---

I expect that Apple will be adding on on their next gen Mac Pro, and after that, the MacBook Pro.

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quote: Bill Gabel

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It's a he.

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quote:

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$100 HD DVD Player With 3 Free Movies?

Oh, now you're interested in HD DVD. As a promotion to coincide with the Home Media Expo, Toshiba released this letter to attendees:

TOSHIBA HD DVD PLAYER for ONLY $99 PLUS 3 FREE HD DVD's
For one week only, starting July 22, 2007, Toshiba will be offering the [$299] HD A2 player for only $99. With your purchase you will also receive 3 HD DVD's.

While we can't tell if this is an offer than will be solely for influential retailers attending the show (which is what we're guessing) or consumers unrelated to the show, the deal is still worth keeping an eye on if you want to up your DVD game a bit or if you were planning on buying a player before July 22nd. If it is true, we're guessing Toshiba is promoting more of a liquidation sale than a permanent price drop.

---

 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 07-18-2007, 11:46 AM:
 
For $99, I'd pick up another one in a heartbeat! Too bad I'm not going to that show...

I just helped my father-in-law purchase an HD-A2 for just under $240 from Amazon, and that was a pretty good retail deal.

I installed it Monday afternoon, and it throws a gorgeous picture onto a 46" Samsung 720p DLP TV. Even if you never watch an HD DVD disc on it, it would be a great upsampling player for that kind of money!
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 07-19-2007, 01:40 AM:
 
I'd buy into HD-DVD for $99...heck, the 3 free movies almost make it worth the purchase. When Blu-Ray drops down to roughly half of what they are now, I may jump into that as well.

What company is not producing for Blu-Ray? I thought it was Warner Bros...but anyone confirm that?
 

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Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 07-19-2007, 01:49 AM:
 
HD DVD
Universal

Blu-ray
Buena Vista
Lionsgate
MGM
Sony
20th Century Fox

Both Formats
Paramount
Warner Bros.
 

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Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 07-19-2007, 05:41 AM:
 
Who's Disney with? 720×480 just isn't cutting it with my New York Minute DVD.

Seriously, I remember reading somewhere they were going it alone with the lesser backed format, which looks to be HD DVD.

Its not worth investing heavily in anything anymore, it all moves too fast.
Theres quite a few ultra dense disc formats currently in development, however whether they come to fruition or not remains to be seen.

Things have always be getting better, its just happening faster than ever. Its just getting more and more expensive to keep up with the neighbors .

Edit: Well I'll be pooped, NYM is a Warner film, I assumed the Olsen's were Disney property, oh well.

[ 07-19-2007, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Damien Taylor ]
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 07-19-2007, 09:21 PM:
 
Buena Vista is the parent company of Disney (and Touchtone, Pixar, Hollywood, etc.). For HD disc releases they're going Blu-Ray only, not HD-DVD.
 

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Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 07-20-2007, 04:42 PM:
 
So have we figured out if this Toshiba deal is for the general public or just for a certain group?
 

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Posted by Shane Cooper (Member # 2510) on 07-22-2007, 11:41 AM:
 
I was gifted the expansion drive for the Xbox 360 that has HD-DVD capability.

I find that I purchase the movies I really like in HD. Currently I have Reds, Superman Returns, Superman II, Dreamgirls and Goodfellas in the format.

Of upcoming releases, I plan on getting 300 and Hot Fuzz in the format.
 

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Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 07-22-2007, 12:03 PM:
 

quote:

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Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

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I understand that with a little mustard, and a couple of slices of bread, they are a little crunchy, but not bad.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 07-23-2007, 08:45 PM:
 
The $99 deal was just for attendees of the show.

Even better, though, was that the people who were there as guests of the Home Theater Forum, The Digital Bits, and TVShowsOnDVD got treated to some exclusive panels and were sent home with certificates for free HD DVD and Blu-ray players (one of each to each person) and free discs as well!

Video Business magazine had an article about how the HD disc promo groups basically ignored the retailers and instead threw their energy and resources into wooing the enthusiasts instead.

The more I find out about Blu-ray, the less I think that they have a strong chance of becoming an exclusive victor. I had privately held this belief earlier this year, but the HD DVD group has stepped up its releases, gotten aggressive with pricing, and the Blu-ray players still aren't competitive and feature-rich. The newest Sony BDP-S300 can't even play Dolby TrueHD lossless sound yet!

In contrast, I just finished watching Blood Diamond on HD DVD, and it has special features that are available through my player's internet connection. While the online polls are kind of questionable in their value, the conflict map information was interesting. I'm sure it just scratches the surface of what's possible and what we'll see in the future.

I'm so confident that HD DVD will continue to be a viable format, I recommended to my father in law that he buy one! (anyone with a father-in-law knows how big of a risk making purchasing recommendations can be) At $239 at Amazon with five free discs by mail, it's a great deal. To minimize the investment in software, we just flipped the setting on his Netflix account so he'll get HD DVD's whenever they're available for the movies he has in his queue. No extra charge!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-23-2007, 11:45 PM:
 
The last thing I'd ever want to do is hook my DVD player (or HD derivative thereof) up to the internet.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-25-2007, 08:49 PM:
 
Here ya go Joe... just what ya ordered!

Blue Ray Camcorder!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-25-2007, 09:11 PM:
 
That's just stupid. I'd rather record onto a cheap tape or a flash drive of sorts, edit it on my computer and then burn it to BluRay at 1080p with downscaling disabled.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-25-2007, 10:25 PM:
 
Edit on the computer... I thought you did all your editing on the fly while you taped and just played back on the Play Station. I don't think you'll see memory stick 1080P camcorders real soon... probably hard drive based though.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-25-2007, 11:35 PM:
 
No, the Playstation is to make my regular CDs sound better than SACDs and DVD-As. Many professional cameras record to solid-state memory like the Panasonic AJ-HPX3000G, Red One or the Thompson Viper... all available soon at your local Best Buy for under $699!
 

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Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-26-2007, 07:40 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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I don't think you'll see memory stick 1080P camcorders real soon... probably hard drive based though.

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quote: PC Magazine article

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Samsung Introduces Advanced HD Players
07.25.07

Four fancy hi-def players from Samsung may replace SD home theaters everywhere, boasting the latest in hi-def audio and video.

By Brian Bennett

Samsung introduced four new high-definition disc players today, which boast the latest in hi-def audio and video.

Perhaps the most exciting model, the BD-UP5000 Duo HD Player, supports both Blu-ray and HD-DVD titles. Other great technologies include HQV (Hollywood Quality Video) processing. According to Samsung, it is designed to provide production studio caliber performance by enabling 1080i to 1080p HD deinterlacing, along with HDi and BD-Java-based interactive menus. The BD-UP5000 will start shipping in Q4 2007 for $1,049.

Two other Samsung players, the BD-P1400 and BD-P2400, center on the playback of Blu-ray discs only. Thanks to its HQV video processor technology, the BD-P2400 can upscale standard-definition DVDs up to HD resolutions of up to 1080p over HDMI. In addition, both devices support lossless, DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD. The BD-P2400 pumps out 7.1-channel audio, whereas the BD-P1400 relies on a 5.1-speaker arrangement. Expect the BD-P1400 to ship in September for $549 and the BD-P2400 in October for $649.

For consumers who want the ultimate home theater system, there's the HT-BD2 Home Theater Solution with Blu-ray. Scheduled to hit store shelves in Q4 of 2007 for $1,499, this model is a true home-theater-in-a-box solution built primarily for Blu-ray enjoyment. It sports a slick, piano black finish and blue LED accent lights, as well as an active subwoofer with five tower and two satellite rear speakers. Although it lacks the HQV processor, it does provide support for DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD.

All four of these new HD players are compatible with 24-frames-per-second playback, a speed at which most movies are shot. Samsung claims this will ensure an accurate theater-like viewing experience.

---

FYI, here's a couple of links for LG Electronics' BH100 "SuperBlu" dual format HD-disc player:
LG SuperBlu Home Page
LG BH100 Product Page

Hewlett Packard is reportedly offering a combo optical drive with both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD compatibility in some of its desktop computers.

In the parts department, NEC developed a single chip solution for decoding both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray content and expected to start shipping the chip in volume by Spring of 2007. Ricoh was at work on a dual format optical lens pick up.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-28-2007, 11:16 AM:
 
Thanks for the tips guys! I'll probably wait till November for the multi-format stuff to emerge and get one of those. My Pioneer CD player is multi format and thats been very handy at times. Perhaps I'll also get an HD-DVD to tide me over for now since they are so cheap and I;ll beable to play those disks in the multi player too.

Mark
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-29-2007, 09:22 AM:
 
Ok, I went ahead and bought a Toshiba HD-A2 yesterday, just two days left to buy them before the 5 free disks offer expires. The store had just two units left! They are getting scarce in this area... sales of them are quite good since the price dropped according to the salesman. Costco still had a stack of em probably because they don't price match... I ended up at Circuit City paying $238.00, the 5 free disks would cost more than that so the whole thing basically comes out a wash... pretty neat.

I have version 1.2 firmware in mine and went to update it to what ever the new firmware is... they don't actually say any place in the download info what the current firmware version is . Anyway, I downloaded the update... unzipped... and then burned it onto a CD... I figured if it was the same version the player would just not take it. Anyway, when I load the disk into the player I get a message on screen that "This is not a DVD" or something to that extent. Anyone have any idea whats up? The instructions DO SAY to burn the ISO file onto a CD, not DVD.

BTW: The image quality is really great from the HDMI output! I bought "The Searchers" and several other titles but "The Searchers" image quality from the 8 perf B&W seps. is absolutely mind blowing! Definately a benchmark DVD for image quality! I have not listened to CD's played fomr it on my big system yet.

Thanks,
Mark
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-29-2007, 12:25 PM:
 
Soon as I recover from my 42" plasma HDTV purchase and save up the money I am going to get one of these players. I like Mark will probably wait till they have a reasonably priced dual compatible player available.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-29-2007, 08:38 PM:
 
FWIW:

I could not get the downloaded ISO file burned to CD ROM to do the update.... even tried downloading on two different computers. I did however get the ethernet connection to do the job. It took 38 min. to download the files and then about another 10 for the player to install it's new software in 5 steps. Now I'm at Ver 2.0 firmware....

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-30-2007, 08:47 PM:
 
I thought about buying the Toshiba player for about 30 seconds today. Then I decided against it. $30 movies? I don't think so. Those prices need to come down, and there needs to be a much wider selection. Waiting is probably the best choice I can make now.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 07-31-2007, 05:20 PM:
 
I was happy with $30 DVDs after years of $40 (and up!) laserdiscs. Of course now if you wait a few months you can get DVDs for about $4; don't know how anyone makes money on those but if they're willing to give them away I'm willing to take them.

Many of the Blu-Ray movies are priced too close to laserdiscs, and although the HD/Regular DVD combo discs are a good idea, they shouldn't be pricing them so much higher.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-05-2007, 12:58 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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I thought about buying the Toshiba player for about 30 seconds today. Then I decided against it. $30 movies? I don't think so. Those prices need to come down, and there needs to be a much wider selection. Waiting is probably the best choice I can make now.

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Joe,
We know your attention span is only that long normally . Thats why you haven't discovered that HD-DVD's dont cost 30 bucks... they can be had for about 20 bucks from Amazon. Local stores around here rent both HD-DVD and Blew-Ray so I Don't have to buy any that I don't want to...but last night I watched Blazing Saddles in full HD and listened to its original Stereo mix !!

P.S. Anyway I'm getting Blazing Saddles as one of my five free disks.

Mark
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-05-2007, 02:41 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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last night I watched Blazing Saddles in full HD and listened to its original Stereo mix

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Listened to its original Stereo mix

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Thats why you haven't discovered that HD-DVD's dont cost 30 bucks... they can be had for about 20 bucks from Amazon.

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quote: Damien Taylor

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I don't know whether its taken off in the states or not, but over here, the studios have taken to releasing 3 disc sets of similarly themed movies in one keep case.

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• HD-A3 $299.99 due Oct.
  HD-A30 $399.99 due Sept.
  HD-A35 $499.99 due Oct.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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same thing over here except they are all new sealed stuff

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Ours are sealed, but our discs...
For example, my Dr. Zhivago was one of those DVDs with 4:3 on one side and 16:9 on the other, time warp!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-08-2007, 07:53 PM:
 
Here is an interesting and honest article on HD-DVD vs. Blew Ray... To me it looks as though Sony has blow it again so far...
LINK

Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD Fact vs. Fiction

Alright yesterdays post got me a bit fired up, I think it’s time we clear up some myths surrounding the supposed technical superiority of Blu-ray over HD-DVD. Immediately after the initial announcements of Blu-ray and HD-DVD back in 2002, the Blu-ray camp began floating the idea their format was technically superior to HD-DVD.

Well, as with all things consumer electronics, specifications rarely tell the full story. Many companies plan on certain features and functions for their products but whether those specifications actually make their way into the final product is another story.

Granted both formats are still evolving (firmware updates and potential dual layer introductions) and I readily acknowledge what I’m about to layout here only applies to today, however it’s still important to note the distinctions between what was promised and the reality.

Myth: Blu-ray is superior because it supports 1080P and HD-DVD doesn’t

Reality: This myth stems from the players themselves and not the actual disc formats. All HD-DVD’s released to date are encoded at 1080p; Blu-ray and HD-DVD are no more defined by their respective players than the DVD format was. Many of the first DVD players didn’t support DTS, but do you hear anyone claiming that DVD doesn’t support DTS?

No, neither the HD-A1 or HD-XA1 currently support 1080p output, but with Toshiba’s third HD-DVD player/recorder supporting 1080p output, I think its safe to assume that all future HD-DVD players will do the same.

More importantly only a handful of the 1080p displays on the market today accept 1080p input, they take 1080i and internally de-interlace it to 1080p, this is why Toshiba chose to forgo 1080p output on the first two players. It was a simple matter of real-world functionality versus a perceived benefit.

The truth of the matter is the majority of the 1080p capable displays on the market, have the ability to internally de-interlace 1080i video to full 1080p resolution. So 1080p from HD-DVD is technically possible right now.

Myth: Blu-ray supports lossless audio where HD-DVD does not.

Reality: You know, I don’t even really know where this one comes from, but I’ve heard this fallacy floated around by both retail salesmen and supposed authorities alike.

HD-DVD supports Dolby TrueHD (lossless) and DTS-HD , currently the DTS-HD decoding is DTS core (lossy) only. It’s assumed that full DTS-HD (lossless) support is coming by means of a firmware update. Either way, Dolby TrueHD is supported right now, and definitely qualifies as a lossless format.

Myth: Blu-ray has more capacity.

Reality: Follow me carefully here, because the distinction I’m going to make does not rule out the possibility that Blu-ray will indeed, ultimately offer more storage capacity.

While Blu-ray is (theoretically) capable of delivering a dual-layer 25GB disc for a total of 50GB’s, the truth of the matter is, the Blu-ray (movie) titles Sony has shipped thus far are on single layer 25GB discs.

So in reality as of today Wednesday the 28th of June 2006, HD-DVD discs at dual-layer 15GB for a total of 30GB offer more capacity than Blu-ray, I’ll repeat that, as of right now HD-DVD is delivering more capacity than Blu-ray. That kind of flies in the face of everything we’ve heard about Blu-ray thus far huh?

The HD-DVD camp has even reported the development of a 45GB (3-layer) disc. And while I’ll have to take a ‘believe it when I see it’ stance on that one, I’m a lot more likely to believe someone who promised less capacity (It was assumed the first HD-DVD’s would be single layer 15GB) and delivered more, over someone who promised more capacity and delivered less.

Of course Sony could trump all of this by delivering their dual-layer 50GB discs, or even their 4 layer (yes four layers!) 100GB discs, but until it’s on the store shelves and playing in Blu-ray players, you’ll have to forgive me for being less than convinced.

Myth: Blu-ray has better image quality than HD-DVD.

Reality: I’ve yet to find one article, early review or credible observation from a trusted source, that flatly states ‘Blu-ray looks better than HD-DVD’. All the Blu-ray reviews I’ve read thus far all throw in some caveat or disclaimer, that seems to indicate HD-DVD’s performance hasn’t been eclipsed, even if they liked XYZ feature in Blu-ray more.

My own observations (Which I freely admit weren’t with a system I was intimately familiar with) found the exact opposite to be true. So far I’ve viewed, ‘House of Flying Daggers’, ‘Hitch’ and ‘Ultraviolet’ and the Blu-ray demo disc on a 61” 1080p Samsung rear-pro display. Flying Daggers had severe macro-blocking in scenes with single fields of highly saturated colors.

The same thing presented itself in ‘Ultraviolet’ during a close-up of Mila Jovovich's midriff; I again noticed distinct pixilation as if the subtle changes in skin-tone simply weren’t being rendered. It was as if this section of video just got a wash of color as opposed to the subtle shading I’m used to seeing from HD-DVD.

Hitch on the other hand was just plain bad; I noticed more macro-blocking and shading problems, and less sharpness than the other two titles to boot. It was better than DVD but not better enough to justify the expense.

While the Blu-ray demo disc did indeed have better image quality than the full length Blu-ray movies. I have to assume with the demo disc coming in it at 30 minutes or so, Sony was able to take full advantage of Blu-ray’s bit-rate, whereas they couldn’t with the full length films.

Summary:

HD image quality is by and large dictated by its bit-rate, MPEG2 is an ancient (in relative terms) video codec. VC-1 is two to three times more efficient than MPEG2, and thus far it seems to be apparent, that Blu-ray’s smaller disc sizes are only exacerbating this inefficiency.

Until Blu-ray either adopts VC-1 as their sole video codec or releases Blu-ray movies on 50GB discs, it’s very unlikely that Blu-ray’s image quality will even match, much less surpass that of HD-DVD’s.

HD-DVD is simply delivering higher bit-rates and overall better image quality, than Blu-ray is capable of with the combination of MPEG2 and 25GB Blu-ray discs.

In theory with 50GB discs Blu-ray could greatly improve its video quality even with MPEG2, but again until it’s on shelves and in players it’s just a theory.

Like I stated earlier, much of this could change with the introduction of dual-layer, 25GB (50GB total) discs from Blu-ray. But this begs the question if Blu-ray part deux only matches and doesn’t surpass HD-DVD in video quality, why the $500 premium?
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-10-2007, 11:01 AM:
 
Finally got my 5 free discs. Mailed out April 2nd, 2007 and delivered August 9th, 2007.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 08-10-2007, 11:35 AM:
 
I dont see how you can assume Blu Ray sucks based on that article. First off, that article is over a year old... It sounds like the author was grasping at straws for points to make. Notice in the paragraph point about blu ray being better in picture quality, he points out pixellation issues, etc, but yet doesn't offer any side by side comparisons of the same title with an HD dvd on the same type of monitor. Most studios are now releasing titles in both formats, perhaps when he wrote the article it wasn't an option. Also, he does concede that HD DVD has more room at the current time but that blu ray can easily trump that with the addition of Dual layer discs. I dont remember when SD DVDs introduced dual layer discs but it certainly wasn't right away. Perhaps Sony is testing the discs now?
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 08-10-2007, 03:47 PM:
 
Yeah, that blog post is from June 2006, so it isn't as up to current events. The only major change, though, is that 50GB Blu-ray discs are being produced and sold for some movie titles.

Best Buy is not the best place to purchase HD DVD's or Blu-ray discs, as they are typically $2 - $6 more expensive than Target and online sources like Amazon.

Take "The Searchers" for example.
MSRP: $28.99
Best Buy: $24.99
Target: $19.99
Amazon: $19.95

Another example: "Mission Impossible III"
MSRP: $39.99
Best Buy: $29.99
Target: $28.99
Amazon: $27.99

I have found Circuit City to offer variable prices in their stores. Discs of the same movie are marked with different prices! That may be limited to some incompetent personnel at our local Circuit City, though.

I have tried very hard, however, not to buy very many discs. My initial thought was that it was a good way to limit my financial investment should HD DVD lose this format war, but I don't think the format is going anywhere any time soon.

That said, I still don't buy very many discs because I can rent them so easily from Netflix. The discs come in good condition (I've only had a minor hiccup on one disc, but it wasn't repeatable after I removed the disc and rubbed out some surface blemishes and a fingerprint or two) and the availability has been great. I received "300" on the day of release!

With so many movies available, my Netflix queue is filled with more movies on HD DVD than I can watch in a year's time. For $16.99 a month (they just dropped their prices), it's a bargain.

The biggest statement about my confidence in the value of HD DVD is the fact that I helped by father-in-law buy one a few weeks ago and then also my parents a week afterwards. It's one thing to spend your own money and take a chance on something, but it's another to recommend to someone else that they spend their money on your recommendation!

The ethernet jack is a great way to update the firmware, as well. It's easy to do once you get the network settings configured, and then you're also set up for enjoying the discs that are Internet-enabled. My in-laws are still on dial-up, so I burned a disc from Toshiba's web site and updated theirs that way.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-10-2007, 10:37 PM:
 

quote: Mike Heenan

---

I dont see how you can assume Blu Ray sucks based on that article.

---

quote: Mark

---

Humm, I don't recall thrashing Blew-Ray any place around here

---

quote: Mark

---

Blew Ray...

---

quote: Mark

---

Sony has blow it again so far

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Bourne Ultimatum was on sale for $18.95 at the local CD store.

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

In regards to the 50GB vs. 30GB size difference in writable discs (i.e. future storage format), there currently aren't any 50GB BD-R's available, and as far as I know

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

I checked costco.com and the blu-ray price is $100 more than the HD-DVD player.

---

quote: Mark

---

Look what just Blew in....

---

What is your problem with Sony?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-21-2007, 01:45 AM:
 
I think Bobby's right, at least for the time being. The dual-format players will win. Eventually it won't be a matter of owning a BluRay player or an HD-DVD player, but just a High Definition Player (or whatever name they'll think of). Playing different discs on them will be like playing MP3s or WMAs on your computer. It'll just be a format. I think one will probably eventually win, though. I have been wrong twice in the past, so we'll see.
 

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Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 08-21-2007, 03:54 AM:
 
Wrong TWICE Joe!
I find that difficult to believe.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-21-2007, 10:02 AM:
 
The Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD "battle" has a lot of similarities to the old Dolby versus DTS thing.

Look at where the Dolby versus DTS issue is now: any new 5.1 surround receiver supports BOTH formats. All HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players have internal decoding support for BOTH formats and the newer players are supporting Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.

One thing which helped neutralize the Dolby/DTS issue was "single chip" decoding solutions. Audio DSP chips featuring on board decoding support for Dolby Digital, DTS, LPCM, HDCD and more were appearing in DVD's early days. Those multi-function chips became the norm and single purpose chips like the original Zoran DD chip disappeared.

Today, companies like NEC are now selling chips that decode both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats on the same chip. More of these kinds of chips are absolutely certain to follow.

To look at it from another angle, consider the recordable CD and DVD computer drive situation. Years ago there was all that buzz about the various "+" and "-" formats. It didn't take very long for hardware makers to sort out that situation and just support both flavors.

One can make the argument that a dual format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player may need two optical laser pickups. That's not such a big deal. Lots of DVD players (such as the Pioneer one I currently own) have featured two separate pickups for better quality DVD and music CD performance.

The only real difficulties in getting dual format HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players off the ground is licensing issues. Sony has backed off its stance that Blu-Ray players can only use the BD format for HD quality playback.

This past weekend I saw a LG Super-Blu player at a Best Buy store in Oklahoma City. It sports both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray capability. The player isn't cheap. But it is available. More of those kinds of players will soon follow. Give it a year you'll see lots of them at price points between $300 and $500 or maybe even less than that. If anything the pace of development and rate of price drops on the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray scene seems to be happening at a faster rate than it did for DVD in the late 1990s.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-21-2007, 10:04 AM:
 

quote: Mike Heenan

---

What is your problem with Sony?

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Wouldn't it be interesting if a third format came into existance and took out both of them????

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

Consumers lose by having to pay more for a combo player than they would have to otherwise.

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

Format neutrality is the only scenario where everyone wins.

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

Consumers lose by having to pay more for a combo player than they would have to otherwise. (Adding HD DVD functionality to a Blu-ray player only adds $100-$200 to the price of a Blu-ray player. Unfortunately, the base price of Blu-ray players are still unreasonably high.) Studios lose by not being able to sell to people that don't have a combo player but have a player of the format that the studio won't support.

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

The price is still an issue, though. Right now, the entry level HD DVD player (the A2) can be had for $240 (list price is $299). The cheapest Blu-ray player (Sony BDP-S300) is around $470 (list: $499).

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

The plain truth is most viewers don't fart around with extras as all.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

at least anything that's worthy of feeding a true 1080p video signal.

---

quote: Mark

---

Well, I know alot of people that watch the extras that are put on most disks. Some of it is actually better than the movie itself. "Everest" is a great example where "The Making Of Everest" is far better than the film itself.

---

Well then that's great news for Blu Ray... with the possible 20 extra gigs over Hd DVD, they'll have plenty of space for those "extras crap" (according to you) that no one will watch.

On another note, we were almost spared Transformers 2... apparently Michael Bay was none too pleased about Transformers being HDdvd only, and said no Transformers 2 for him, but then he changed his tune the next day, likely after some studio folks talked to him. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out with other major Hollywood players. Spielberg gets to choose what format his films are on (which isn't affected by the Paramount deal), and so far CETK is his first release on Blu Ray.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-23-2007, 08:59 PM:
 
Ah humm, That was actually Bobby that said "no one watches the extra stuff".... not me. I usually watch through it or watch what I want of it. Of course when HD-DVD goes three layers then Blew Ray will be scratcing it's disk to figure out what to do.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-23-2007, 11:34 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Bobby's forgotten that 1080i sets deinterlace the image as it is put on screen. Its the way the display operates.

---

quote: Mark

---

The extra 20 gig if used is just going to be extras crap!

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

Spielberg gets to choose what format his films are on (which isn't affected by the Paramount deal), and so far CETK is his first release on Blu Ray.

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

it would be interesting to see what format the major Hollywood players choose

---

It's 35mm.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-24-2007, 06:15 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Well, I know alot of people that watch the extras that are put on most disks.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Humm... Bobby's forgotten that 1080i sets deinterlace the image as it is put on screen. Its the way the display operates

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Most of those people couldn't give one fart about extras on the disc.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Simply put, many HDTV sets out there are far from perfect, even ones that cost several grand.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

They use some "wobbulation" technique to get away with using a much smaller and much cheaper DLP chip with half the pixels to provide a faked 1920 X 1080 pixel image.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Thats funny... the Mitsubishi chassis I saw the other day at the local TV shop had the exact same chip in it that is used in theatrical D-Cinema projectors... as was the local Mits dealer(RC Willey) that had the same DLP chip on display in a plastic bubble. Why would they wobulate it?

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

"extras crap" (according to you) that no one will watch.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

My guess would be that Samsung and Mitsubishi are two different companies. At least that's the rumor.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

My guess would be that Samsung and Mitsubishi are two different companies. At least that's the rumor.

---

The rumor I heard was that they all get the chips from the same company...

Mark
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-25-2007, 08:29 AM:
 
An interesting article on the HD-DVD vs. Blew Ray war... just as I imagined it with Sony Loosing....

Link

Sales of next-gen DVD players still stalled
Report: War between Blu-ray and HD DVD to run another 18 months

Paramount chooses HD DVD over Blu-ray
Aug. 20: The studio's decision is the latest move in the high-definition DVD format war. "On the Money's" Julia Boorstin reports.

Price pressure to intensify HD fight

NEW YORK - Sales of next-generation DVD players are not seen as likely to take off for another 18 months as consumers are still waiting for prices to fall and for the battle over two competing technologies to be resolved.

Referring to the high-definition DVD format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray, Forrester Research said in a report on Monday that while the two camps have "been fighting what seems to be a war of attrition for consumers' hearts and minds," few consumers are warming to either type of device.

Sony Corp. backs the Blu-ray standard against Toshiba Corp's HD DVD.

Hollywood and electronics manufacturers hope new high-definition DVDs, with better picture quality and more capacity, will revive the slowing $24 billion home DVD market.

But the format war has curbed adoption in a way reminiscent of the Betamax-VHS videotape format battle of the early 1980s, experts say.

Forrester analyst J.P. Gownder stood behind his company's view that Blu-ray would eventually win out over HD DVD, but he said the Blu-ray camp needs to cut prices.

A stand alone Blu-ray player sells for about $500, while HD DVD players cost about $400, and prices are expected to drop further as the holiday shopping season nears.

Gownder said Blu-ray's content advantages are somewhat diminished since the recent decision by Viacom's Paramount studio to commit exclusively to HD DVD. HD DVD hardware prices have also dropped into consumers' preferred price range, he said.

"Weakened by these developments, Blu-ray needs to offer a viable hardware model at the $250 price point by Christmas 2007," he said in the report. "The Blu-ray camp must also stave off further studio defections, and employ more aggressive promotional tactics to counter HD DVD's recent momentum."

Forrester said typical owners of high-definition televisions are not willing to pay more than $200 on average for a new HD DVD or Blu-ray player.

"Failure to alter strategy would open up Blu-ray to a possible upset defeat at the hands of HD DVD," Gownder said.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-25-2007, 11:57 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

just as I imagined it with Sony Loosing....

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Ah humm, That was actually Bobby that said "no one watches the extra stuff".... not me. I usually watch through it or watch what I want of it. Of course when HD-DVD goes three layers then Blew Ray will be scratcing it's disk to figure out what to do.

---

quote: Frank Angel

---

Maybe I am naive, but why would any studio agree to release in only one format?

---

There are lots of reasons for this, all centered on one thing:

$

It cost twice as much to manufacture a dual inventory. On top of that, no stores want to stock multiple formats. Especially when they know they're competing with downloadable, burnable movies (which will be the standard within a few years anyway).
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-30-2007, 10:55 PM:
 
This all points further to why a single HD-disc player that can handle both formats would be by far the most practical solution.

Warner Bros. has been having problems with their "Total HD" format (which sandwiches HD-DVD and Blu-Ray layers back to back). According to The Digital Bits website, Warner Bros. is backing off the Total HD format and will continue to release certain titles in both Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Subsidiary New Line will also continue to do the same for now.

Packaging movies with backward compatibility to DVD doesn't appear to be working all that great either. Universal has been having problems with their HD-DVD/DVD combo disc releases. Knocked Up is one of the latest examples.

When it comes to HD formats, it seems likely various studios will just go one way or the other exclusively for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD release. I'm not optimistic all the major studios will unanimously side with one format or the other anytime soon, if ever.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-30-2007, 11:02 PM:
 
I hear that HD-DVD, despite having a really lame name, is really susceptible to scratches. I hear you can take a BluRay and scratch it with a knife, duct tape it to the outside of the space shuttle and remove it when it gets back, and take a belt sander to it and it will be fine. But HD-DVD (despite having a really lame name) scratches if a piece of dust lands on it. Is this an exaggeration?
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-01-2007, 05:32 AM:
 
Joe, when have we ever known you to exagerate?

I bought this stuff called Lens Doctor Rx. Its a dual solution that you are supposed to put on lenses to remove minute scratches. First solution cleans the surface, second is applied with a swab and it forms a clear coating that fills in the scratches. So, figures I, it should work on DVDs and CDs that are damaged.

I got a DVD from Netflex that did that stutter thing and then froze....no amount of coaxing could get it to pass that point, even after I cleaned it. So out comes Lens Dr. Rx. I cleaned it with the solution and applied the coating as per instructions. I am thinking the disc is crapola already, this stuff can't make it any worse. Hmmmm.

Where as before it got stuck someplace in the film, now the thing wouldn't even start. The player just kept saying "Loading".

Sometimes ideas that seem plausable at first just crash and burn. I have a feeling quadruple layer discs might meet the same fate.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-01-2007, 05:14 PM:
 
Actually both Armor-All and Rain-X work really well on Audio CD's if they get heat damage from being afixed to the outside of the shuttle during re-entry. Coating the disk with one of these will generally at least allow you do make your ah hummm... back up disk that you forgot to make when you bought it.

Quite honestly, I haven't had any scratching problems with any of my 30 or so HD-DVD's as of yet... When I get home tonight I'll play frisbee with one of them with our dog Dakota... He'll give it some real break in testing then we can see if it still plays...

Mark
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-01-2007, 07:23 PM:
 
Originally it was BR that was supposed to have problems with surface scratching, enough so that it was going to be a caddy-disc format until they came up with the hardened coating that is now a standard on BR discs. HD DVD was supposed to be similar to CDs and DVDs as far as scratching issues were concerned.

But I'm guessing with the much tinier laser spot sizes these hi-def formats use, scratches that don't bother the older disc formats can render HD DVD unplayable. I've read anecdotal on-line accounts that even the light scratches from wiping dust off the surface seem to cause problems. Guess there'll be no such thing as rental HD DVDs in the real world. Glad to see that Mark for one has not had any issues in this area. I'm pretty anal about disc care so I don't think I'll have any issues, but reports of such HD DVD sensitivity are disconcerting.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-01-2007, 07:29 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

I haven't had any scratching problems with any of my 30 or so HD-DVD's as of yet

---

quote: Bobby

---

Warner Bros. has been having problems with their "Total HD" format (which sandwiches HD-DVD and Blu-Ray layers back to back). According to The Digital Bits website, Warner Bros. is backing off the Total HD format and will continue to release certain titles in both Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Subsidiary New Line will also continue to do the same for now.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

That's because you handle them with care.

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quote: Brad Miller

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Why don't these places hook BOTH formats up to the SAME monitor

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quote: Mark

---

Thats called Smart Marketing! Something that Circuit Shitty is very good at

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quote: Mike Heenan

---

I guess you don't remember the Divx fiasco?

---

quote: Blaine Young

---

If you handle things with care, they will last a very long time.

---

Not necessarily! I've got a few CDs that I purchased in the mid and late 1980s that have suffered some sort of rot and will no longer play. (Not a scratch or even a fingerprint on them either!) Fortunately I was able to extract the data off of them by putting them in a few different computers. One computer was able to read so much of the disc, another computer was able to pull another track of two off, etc. Then I re-assembled and burned the compilation.

If this is going to be a pattern, we are all going to have to start re-burning our CD and DVD collections every 15 years or so, and then every 5 years re-burn the burns.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-02-2007, 09:31 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

---

I've got a few CDs that I purchased in the mid and late 1980s that have suffered some sort of rot and will no longer play.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

HD DVD to launch online shopping feature

---

Whooptee fuckin' doo!


It's kind of funny, but I already have a device that works pretty well for doing online shopping. It's a device called a "personal computer."

I'll probably start using my DVD player to surf the Internet and do online shopping once I also make the move to using my microwave oven to wash my clothes.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 10-03-2007, 03:49 PM:
 
What a lame idea. It's more concrete proof that the suits in bollywood have lost all touch with reality.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-03-2007, 05:59 PM:
 
I just picked up my Sony BDP S300, and two movies to go along with it: Phantom Of The Opera, and Pirates Of The Caribbean #1.

Boot up and disk load times are a little long, but I imagine that will get better as drive speed and processing power increase.

Other than that, no complaints here yet. Except that it really sucks that I can't shop online directly from my remote control. Wow, what a bummer.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-03-2007, 07:25 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

---

I've got a few CDs that I purchased in the mid and late 1980s that have suffered some sort of rot and will no longer play.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

Boot up and disk load times are a little long, but I imagine that will get better as drive speed and processing power increase.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

Except that it really sucks that I can't shop online directly from my remote control. Wow, what a bummer.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

Sounds like desperation to me.

---

quote:

---

The cost to make em is way less than that!

---

quote:

---

Blu-ray Dominates Japan Again (11:15 AM EST): An interesting graph just came through here that takes a snapshot of how weekly sales in Japan of recorders are doing across the three main markets. The graph covers the overall recorder market, including DVD-only recorders, DVD+HDD recorders (Standard Definition only), DVD+HDD SD/HD recorders, Blu-ray recorders and HD DVD recorders. Other than the PS3, Japan is still essentially a recorder-only market for Blu-ray. On the HD DVD side, it's essentially the same with the add-on for the Xbox 360 and Toshiba's HD DVD recorders.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

No firmware upgrade on the A-3 it does 1080P out of the box.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I've read from sources, such as The Digital Bits, the $99 (or $199) A3 model is indeed limited to only 1080i output.

---

quote:

---

Firmware Update Version: 1.1

Applicable Models: HD-A30, HD-A3, HD-D3, and HD-A35.

Overview: As part of our commitment to provide world-class service to our customers, Toshiba is supplying this firmware update for use by purchasers of Toshiba HD DVD Player models HD-A30, HD-A3, HD-D3, and HD-A35. This firmware update improves network connectivity for supporting the download of web-enabled network content associated with certain HD DVD discs, improves certain video and audio processing capabilities, and also addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related issues identified by Toshiba.

Important Note: Certain HD DVD discs may contain or have the capability of downloading studio-provided, web-enabled network content. To minimize any potential compatibility and/or connectivity issues, before viewing such content, it is recommended that you perform the firmware update process to ensure that your HD DVD player is using the latest firmware version.

How to obtain and install the firmware update:

1. If you have broadband internet service, you may obtain the firmware update over the internet using the Ethernet port on the back of your HD DVD Player. Instructions for configuring the Ethernet port and downloading the firmware update can be found in the owner's manual and Update Procedure sheet for your HD DVD Player. Here is an overview of the process:

* BEFORE BEGINNING THE FIRMWARE UPDATE PROCESS, BE SURE TO REMOVE ANY DISCS FROM YOUR HD DVD PLAYER.
* Please configure the Ethernet port. You may need to turn on DHCP and DNS.
* After you have configured the Ethernet port, follow the directions in the owner’s manual to check for a firmware update.
* If a firmware update is available for your player, it will take about 20 minutes to download and install. Once the firmware update download process has finished, the player's power will automatically switch off. You must wait until this process has finished.
* " DO NOT UNPLUG, TURN OFF, OR USE ANY OTHER FEATURE OF YOUR PLAYER DURING THE FIRMWARE UPDATE PROCESS. Doing so will cause the writing of the firmware update to the player to be halted and the player may no longer operate properly. If the player stops working, please contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at (800) 319-6684.
* If no firmware update is available, the player will quickly exit the firmware update process.
* Please refer to the owner's manual for additional details.

2. If you have a PC with a CD-RW drive that is connected to the internet, you may be able to download an ISO image file of the firmware update to your PC and copy it to a blank CD-R or CD-RW disc. For more information, and to download an ISO image file of the firmware update click here.

3. If you are unable, or prefer not, to obtain the firmware update by one of the methods described above, you may contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at (800) 319-6684 and request that a firmware update disc be sent to you by mail. You can update the firmware using the firmware update disc by following the instructions provided with the disc.

Please note that if you sent Toshiba the Firmware Update Request card included with your player, you will receive an update disc by mail from Toshiba as soon as it becomes available.

Frequently Asked Questions:

Q1. What does this update do?

A1. This firmware update improves network connectivity for supporting the download of web- enabled network content associated with certain HD DVD discs, improves certain video and audio processing capabilities, and also addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related issues identified by Toshiba.

Q2. Why do I need to turn on DHCP and DNS?

A2.Turning on DHCP causes the player to automatically detect its IP address and other network information from your internet service provider's DHCP server. Turning on DNS causes the player to automatically detect the DNS server address associated with your internet service provider.

Q3. I purchased an HD DVD disc that contains/has the capability of downloading web- enabled network content. What do I need to do to view this content?

A3. First, be sure that you have properly configured the player's Ethernet port. If your Ethernet port is properly configured, perform the firmware update process to update the player's firmware to the latest firmware version. Once you have updated the player with the latest firmware, follow the directions that came with the HD DVD disc or that appear in the menu of the HD DVD disc. Should you experience problems viewing such content, please contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at (800) 319-6684.

Q4. The HDMI output does not work or works intermittently with the HDMI or DVI input on my HDTV or monitor. Does the new firmware address that issue?

A4. The firmware update addresses and improves HDMI and DVI connectivity issues. If you still experience such issues, try disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable. Make sure your display input is set to HDMI (or DVI). If your display has more than one HDMI/DVI input, make sure that all connected HDMI/DVI source devices are powered on (even if not in use). If none of these solve the issue, please turn off the TV and the HD DVD player. Check all connections. Disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable. Turn on the TV first and then turn on the HD DVD player. Should you continue to experience issues, please contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at (800) 319-6684.

Q5. During HD DVD playback I sometimes experience pixelization, block noise or audio dropouts. Sometimes playback freezes or stops. Sometimes, playback is not smooth. Does the new firmware address these issues?

A5. This firmware update addresses various playability issues. You should also check to be sure that the disc is clean and, if the disc will not operate at all, that you are inserting the disc with the right side up. In the event that playback freezes or stops, press and hold the ON/STANDBY button on the front of the player for approximately ten seconds. This will cause the player to turn off. After the player turns off, turn the player back on by pressing the ON/STANDBY button, and then press the OPEN/CLOSE button to remove the disc. Should you continue to experience issues, please contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at (800) 319- 6684.

Q6. Do I need to install prior firmware updates before installing the current firmware update?

A6. No. The current firmware update includes all of the prior firmware updates.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Ha, my firmware is at Ver 2.5 not i.2. I dfound this blurb on the Tosh. site that explains it very clearly........ So Bobby, have you spent your 99.00 to find out what it does?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

But I absolutely will not buy a single format player. Single format players suck ass.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

You state that but you don't even own one so how can you have a basis for that statement? In fact there can be many advantages to owning seperate players such as the picture and audio will be optimum for each format.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

None of the schemes used with the single DSP could compare to having seperate dedicated D to A decoders

---

quote: Brad Miller

---

Being that the dual players are roughly double the cost of a single player, I personally would rather purchase a single format player of HD-DVD and a single format player of BluRay.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Thats funny Brad... you seem to be in your own little this is better club there. If you read all the disk reviewers reviews over at say Digital Bits you'll see that there is little to no difference between the vuisuals of the two formats, in fact many disk reviewers are using some of the best projectors/flat screens available to look at the disks, probably far better gear than anyone on this site has.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

It's all in the software routines. A single chip can easily do what multiple chips can just as well. There is absolutely no technical reason why it can't.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Anyone have any input on the new 120Hz LCD TV'S? Its a very nice, very clear image, but it just doesn't look like film to me. The video quality looks more like a TV sitcom or some other "live" performance.

---

Did they have a 120 frames-per-second source? Otherwise it should just look very steady (as opposed to strobey/flickery). 120Hz should be better than 60Hz for 24fps progressive HD material unless they're trying to interpolate extra frames or some other BS. If they had something running at 120 fps, then no, it will not look like film but instead like reality.

By the way, what runs at 120 frames per second? Nothing that I know of except maybe the Samsung demo hardware which is hooked up to the TV.
 

---

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-11-2007, 04:50 AM:
 
I say, Blu-Ray into THIS baby:

ProjectionDesign M80 3-chip DLP wins key CEDIA award!

ProjectionDesign high-end projector, the M80, is recognized as one of those products in the display industry that lead the herd in terms of technology and presentation.

Indeed, the projectionDesign M80 is a high-end three-chip DLP boasting 1080p native resolution. Rated at up to 8,000 lumens, this light canon is available with a choice of five optional lenses.



Other key features include 10-bit video processor, RealColor color management suite and a range of high quality optics for the maximum picture quality.

ProjectionDesign has also innovated with the design of the projector itself – it has placed the digital micromirror devices or DMDs at the top of the unit. This not only makes the M80 more compact, but helps with servicing and with attaching different color filters too.

The projectionDesign is due for UK release in Q1 – 2008.

Clicky here for the article -- CineNow.com

I mean, is this what it's finally come down to....getting Home Theatre to look as good as D-Cinema? Might as well sell the 35mm collection and start replacing all titles with Blu-Ray discs. (I can't believe those words came out of my mouth). At the very least, it certainly will cut down on storage space.

This sure has got to come close to "who needs better than this" to mimic what you'll see going to DCinema. And look ma, no freakin spinning wheels! Three chips, just like the big boys.

Only question is, will I have to sell my first born?

BTW, who is ProjectionDesign? Anyone ever hear of them?

That site is just chocked full of happening stuff....like TI doing 3D with DLP projection TVs. Imagine that....all that hoopla about how 3D in theatres was going to be the stop-gap item because they were NEVER going to be able to duplicate that at home. And THAT's how the digevangelists hawked it to the suits at Regal and Carmike and the rest of them. Well, so much for THAT bubble...seems TI just couldn't wait to burst it, even before the 3D systems were barely warmed up.

THIS was never supposed to happen (even tho I predicted it would):

Texas Instrument launches 3D TV!



On the IFA show in Berlin, Texas instruments has introduced an enhancement to its DLP projection technology that enables TV sets to display 3D images. Mitsubishi and Samsung are among the first OEMs to implement the technology in their products, TI said.

The technology shown adopts Texas Instruments’ DLP Cinema technology to living-room dimensions. Basically, it incorporates a rear projection TV modified to process HD material such as HDTV, HD-DVD or Blu-ray as source. However, the material has to be produced accordingly, and viewers have to use specific shutter goggles.

The DLP 3D HDTV technology supplies a 60Hz frame rate signal to each eye; internally the device works with a 120Hz frame rate. The 3-D stereoscopic video content is fed to the TV set equipped with the 3-D display via HDMI or DVI port. Left and right stereo images are filtered independently and then sampled in an offset grid pattern. In the display, the resulting views are combined again and appear as spacial image to the viewer.

Clicky here for the article on CineNow.com
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 11-11-2007, 05:54 AM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

---

and viewers have to use specific shutter goggles.

---

Boo! Cheap! Eye latency!

Make the images polarized and on the screen at the same time. This shouldn't be too hard with BluRay's dual video stream capabilities.

Do THAT, Texas Instruments. Then you'd be accomplishing something.

Shutter glasses have been done.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-11-2007, 06:35 AM:
 

quote: Mark J. Marshall

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Make the images polarized and on the screen at the same time. This shouldn't be too hard with BluRay's dual video stream capabilities.

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quote: Joe Redifer

---

By the way, what runs at 120 frames per second? Nothing that I know of except maybe the Samsung demo hardware which is hooked up to the TV.

---

Computer-based inputs could potentially run near those frame rates or even better. My old Viewsonic 21" CRT monitor could do 1800 X 1440 at 91Hz. I'm not sure about gaming consoles. This is one reason why I think electronics companies should be paying more attention to how their TV monitors work when connected to auxiliary sources like external monitor inputs from computers.

Large HDTV screens are going to be doing more duties than just playing movies and showing TV signals.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-11-2007, 12:13 PM:
 
I have a problem with spending lots of $$ with a brand new unknown company!! Its an even bigger problem for me when its someone elses $$ because the added responsibility factor is inversely proportionate to the amount of money charged for the product. I would stick with the Panasonic 3-DLP PT-DW10000E HERE or on the cheap side the new Sanyo PLV-Z2000 3-LCD projector which has greatly extended contrast ratio. These represent the most expensive to the least expensive decent 16X9 projectors that are non D-Cinema that I'd consider. The Panasonic is pretty close in price, I believe within 10K, to the the new Christie ZX D-Cinema projector so I don't know that the Panasonic really makes much sense any more... which is why I said what I did in the e-mail.

P.S. Another thing to check before purchase is replacement lamp cost. Lamps can eat a department budget alive!
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-11-2007, 02:18 PM:
 
The guys in Norway behind Projection Design are great and very invovating in their products. They have been behind many private brands in addition to being rebadged by Barco, Digital Projection and Christie. Many of their projectors are being used for alternative and primary cinema needs in Europe, Asia, and Latin America.
 

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Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 11-11-2007, 04:28 PM:
 
We have projection design's cineo 3 720p projectors for e cinema and preshow at the cinema I work at. The server recognises it as a christie. I sourced them well before panasonic even released a widescreen model similar. Picture and lenses are first class.
Bulbs are aprox $aust800 each x2, so pretty typical.

[ 11-14-2007, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-11-2007, 04:29 PM:
 
The Samsung 120hz TV's at the local BB are hooked up to a Blu-Ray player playing Pirates. The image looks very nice, however, the picture does not look film like at all. When I watch movies, I'm going for the film look, not the TV broadcast. I think I'll look into a front projector instead.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-11-2007, 05:00 PM:
 
Well the TV must be interpolating frames if it looks anything like a "live" telecast or similar.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-11-2007, 05:45 PM:
 
Something is certainly wrong! I can see the grain in the film on my TV when I play back from HD-DVD even with 1080I. Samsung makes some dam good TV's... so its probably not that. How are the Blew Ray's connected to the TV's? Is it via HDMI or some other crapo cable connection? So far HDMI has been the best conection for me as far as picture quality is concerned.

Mark
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-12-2007, 12:30 AM:
 
Whatever Frank is seeing is definitely NOT anything to do with Blu-Ray. I've seen movies looks great and "film like" on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Chances are extremely likely some sales droid at Best Buy had the TV set up incorrectly or something. Such a thing is very common at any big box retailer selling electronics.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-12-2007, 01:24 AM:
 
The BB sales staff said the TV is hooked directly to the Blu-Ray player via HDMI. I looked, and played with the remote...so its true. The only way I can describe the picture is if you were watch an episode of any sitcom...Three's Company for example. The picture was as fluid as that. It was nothing like a movie. It was disturbing, yet, such a nice picture. The TV's are very expensive, I think this one was $3200 for a 46" or something close to that. I haven't seen a picture on ANY other TV set in the store that looks anything like it. They do have several Blu-Ray and HD-DVD decks hooked up to different TV's including plasma and DLP.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-12-2007, 02:26 AM:
 
Many sitcoms were shot on film. Not sure about 3's Company.

Basically what you're noticing would be like, say, the difference between watching the nightly news and watching a DVD. It would be better described as "frame rate". Though I find it hard to believe that the TV can interpolate 24fps all the way up to either 60 or 120fps. That's a lot of new frames to create out of nowhere. I guess I'd have to see it for myself in order to put everything in better words about what could possibly be going on.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-12-2007, 08:18 AM:
 
I'm pretty sure that Three's Company was shot on film... Seinfeld always was too.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-12-2007, 09:24 AM:
 
Three's Company was videotaped. Not filmed.

I've never seen any movie shot on film look video-ish on any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD demo setup. I've seen quite a few of these setups, ranging from expensive ones in stores like Ultimate Electronics to mid-range stuff as Best Buy and Sears.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-12-2007, 11:45 AM:
 
Bobby is right on this one, Three's Company was video all the way. Still, whatever the local Circuit City was running on HD-DVD a month ago DID look like video, and yes it was a HDMI hookup.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-12-2007, 01:58 PM:
 
My take on the WalMart deal was that they were holding a Black Friday-like sale a couple of weeks early. The HD-A2's were available and they offered them below their (WalMart's, not Toshiba's) cost as a way of creating buzz and getting people in the door. This is not uncommon, and they had 3 other products that they were doing the same thing with.

WalMarts here in Wisconsin were not supposed to be selling the player for $98 because of a minimum-markup law preventing stores from selling things below cost. I don't understand how this works in light of stores holding Black Friday sales and offering electronics and other products for what has to be less than cost, but that's what people here in Wisconsin were being told. I don't think Toshiba lost any money on this deal aside from whatever deal they made with a large retailer looking to sell x number of units. The A2's are now at WalMart priced at $198, so it doesn't appear to have been a one-time closeout deal on the 2nd, but since the A3 is replacing the A2, I would imagine that the A2 will be replaced at some point.

I was fortunate enough to find a local WalMart that didn't get the memo about the pricing. I now have an HD DVD player for each HD device, which is the right ratio to have.

The Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 HD DVD players are both 720p / 1080i players. The step-up models will get you 1080p24 (this was added to the HD-A20 and HD-XA2 models by a firmware update, the HD-A30 and HD-A35 will have it from the get-go).

Unless you have a display that can take a 1080p24 input, or if your display is bad at doing the 1080i -> 1080p conversion, there isn't a need to buy anything more than the HD-A2/A3 from a video standpoint (there are audio differences on the HD-A35 and -XA2).

Confusion about 1080i vs. 1080p on HD media is common, and I wish that Toshiba would just integrate the silicon necessary to remove that confusion, but since that isn't the case, please feel free to read the following text that I put together that explains it a little more and provides links to references:

What is the Difference Between 1080p and 1080i, and Does It Matter?

I'm happy to quote the entire text, but it's a little lengthy and I didn't want to plug up the discussion with it. To sum it up, 1080i isn't inherently better than 1080p when it comes to HD media (HD DVD and Blu-ray). It's just a matter of where the conversion happens, if the conversion is necessary at all (if you have a display capable of 1080p24, that's the best scenario).

quote: Brad Miller

---

Mark, after doing some side by side comparisons, I have found that BluRay is noticeably a better format. This is regardless of the player you are using (but still using the same feature disc). As such I am not against "high definition dvds", I am against HD-DVD because it's compression is much more noticeable than BluRays.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

at that point one could make make a 24p to 72p deinterlacer that kept all of the original info.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Yes, the typical person WOULD see a difference

---

I'm not so sure. These are the same people that say standard definition TV is "good enough". I don't think the average person could tell the difference between 720p and 1080i. My guess is, they would all look "good enough". Remember, the typical person typically believes what the kids at the big box stores tell them. It would be interesting to set up a 1080i and 1080p demo and see if people really could tell the difference.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-13-2007, 08:46 AM:
 
Okay shoot me Joe...I was tired when I wrote that...yes progressive to progressive remains progressive...what I meant to say was one could go from a 24p source, interlace it for some horrible reason and transform it to a 72Hz version and get a lossless recreation since each frame will be shown 3-times rather than the 3:2 where there is a point where you have half a frame from one and half a frame from the next frame upon deinterlacing as you go from the double shown frame to the triple shown frame.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-13-2007, 10:43 AM:
 
OMG, did someone just find an error in something Steve said???

Let's start the tally. That's now TWO things Steve has been wrong about!
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-13-2007, 07:42 PM:
 
Apparently this weird TV thing at BB I saw was a Samsung LNT4671 w/120hz refresh and 1080p/24. In that mode, it makes movies look like sitcoms. It's a sharp picture, but I don't really know if its better. I can tell you that the credits scroll nice and smooth.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-13-2007, 09:15 PM:
 
I'll really have to check it out. I am not a big fan of interpolation in any form, especially framerates! But then again we have to remember that this is Samsung. What the hell do they know about aesthetics?

By the way, what movie was it?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-13-2007, 10:01 PM:
 
He said it was one of the Johnny Depp Pirates movies. Don't know which one exactly.

Since this was a Samsung monitor, I cannot help but wonder if this was one of those faux-1080p TVs where a cheapo DLP chip with half the pixels of 1080p is being used in conjunction with a "wobbulation" filter to fake a 1080p image. I'm wondering if the effect of "wobbulation" in conjunction with a Hallmark™ Rainbow Brite® color wheel is helping to cause that video-ish look.

I know there are some proponents of "wobbulation" but it still is FAKE FAKE FAKE. That is NOT true 1080p. The wobble bobble bull crap defeats the principal of having a progressive image in the first place. You're trading an interlaced scan image for a wobbulated scan image that really does nothing better. It's still only showing you half the pixels at any given time instead of all the pixels all the time.

Real 1080p should not have to rely on any bullshit like wobbulation and a half-rez chip to pretend to be 1080p. Put a damned real 1920 X 1080 native resolution imaging system in there. Not anything half-rez. On top of that, the native 1920 X 1080 pixel system should be able to deliver 24fps, 30fps and 60fps progressive at a bare minimum. IMHO, those monitors should be able to deliver at even faster frame rates to accommodate other devices (such as computer systems) that are able to deliver much faster frame rates than any video format.

Samsung's TVs are dead to me as long as they want to rely on cost cutting bullshit like half-rez half-baked DLP chips. They need to get 100% 1920 X 1080 all the time native and get rid of the half rez shit.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-13-2007, 10:12 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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faux-1080p TVs where a cheapo DLP chip

---

quote:

---

I am not a big fan of interpolation in any form, especially framerates!

---

While this is understandable, a 24fps to 72p conversion is no different than a 3-wing shutter running in a film projector (except the light is not interrupted like in a film projector). You are shown each image for 3 cycles and at no time is their part of one image mixed with part of another image as is the case in a 24->30 or 24->60 conversion with interlace. If you think about it 24fps would flicker very badly if shown on film...thus the 2-wing shutter (or double rotation single blade shutter) to interpolate 24fps to 48Hz.

However, be wary of projectors that can merely handle 72Hz...I've tried upconversion to 72Hz...the projector recognized it took the signal. It then clearly converted it back to its native 60Hz and the jutter was worse than a straight 24->60 conversion.

For those not used to looking for artifacts, jutter normally shows itself on any horizontal movement...it looks like a discontinutity.

Those looking for de-interlacing artifacts can not only use horiztonal movement but vertical camera tilts...signals that have gone through interlacing will tend to show themselves on such camera motions.

Steve
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-14-2007, 10:32 AM:
 
Yes, I turned the feature off (it also has several different levels low, medium and high). When its off, it looks like any other LCD Panel TV, just with excellent black levels.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-14-2007, 02:02 PM:
 
Frank...try looking at the set with a checker-board pattern...most contrast ratio figures are beyond bogus and only tell a full on versus full off. Having to put up both black and white at the same time prevents modulating the light as well and shows the true contrast of the set.

Steve
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-14-2007, 06:43 PM:
 
They get a better contrast ration because of their high gloss screen (so I'm told). 25000:1 seems a bit rediculous, but then if you look at the set, you might nod your heard in agreement that it does deliver a fantastic contrast rate.

Back to Blu-Ray...After buying my BD-P1400, I heard that it is only profile 1.0. All Blu-Ray decks released after 10/31/07 are supposed to be Profile 1.1. Firmware cannot update this, as it calls for a second video decoder in the deck. There was also talk about the new Profile 1.1 discs not playing well, or at all, in Profile 1.0 machines. Even worse yet is the fact that Profile 2.0 is supposed to be the final standard for Blu-Ray. So why goto Profile 1.1? Now I have to take my deck back and wait for the Duo deck that Samsung is coming out with in early/mid December. It will be Profile 1.1 compatible, only after a firmware update due out at the end of January.

This is not good strategy for Blu-Ray...I was a believer until I read this mess. Now I'm getting mad. I'd return the deck and just wait, but I have amassed a small amount of movies already.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-14-2007, 08:42 PM:
 
The Samsung 1400 IS 1.1

They are also amazingly cheap at amazon.com
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-14-2007, 09:50 PM:
 
Anybody seen the LG Super-Blu player? It handles both Blu-Ray and HD disks. Is that the first player that handles both?
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-14-2007, 10:06 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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The Samsung 1400 IS 1.1

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Anybody seen the LG Super-Blu player?

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quote: Joe Redifer

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the 1.1 is probably just a bug fix.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

---

After buying my BD-P1400, I heard that it is only profile 1.0. All Blu-Ray decks released after 10/31/07 are supposed to be Profile 1.1. Firmware cannot update this, as it calls for a second video decoder in the deck. There was also talk about the new Profile 1.1 discs not playing well, or at all, in Profile 1.0 machines.

---

So let me get this straight; with a format war going on between HD-DVD and Blew-Ray and with hi-def players only penetrating .9% of the market, Blew-Ray, after only being introduced, what, only two years ago, has ALREADY changed it's format so there are two DIFFERENT and INCOMPATIBLE "Profiles" existing and some poor joe schmo out there is supposed to go looking on packaging to see if a disc is Profile 1 or Profile 1.1 (they didn't even have enough sense to make it 1 and 2....they made it 1.0 and 1.1?)? What are these effin people on crack?!
 

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Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 11-16-2007, 09:18 AM:
 
Here's how I understand it:

Profile 1.0 - no PIP for extra content

Profile 1.1 - PIP for display of alternate video in PIP window, 256MB local storage

Profile 2.0 - Internet, 1GB local storage

Supposedly all disks should still play on 1.0, it's just that you can't use the advanced features . . . . . we'll see if that holds true.

I wonder if there is a similar progression for HD-DVD?
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-16-2007, 11:02 AM:
 
The Virgin Megastore in Times Square and Union Square are having a promo next Tuesday Nov. 20th. for the new re-mastered STAR TREK original series season 1 on HD-DVD. For the first 120 customers at Times Square and the first 30 at Union Square who buy the HD-DVD/DVD combo format for $199.99 get a free Toshiba HD-DVD player. And as an added bonus get a Star Trek goodie bag (Times Square 400, Union Square 150).

WOW !!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2007, 11:43 AM:
 
Gee Bill,

I might just see you there... that would make for three HD players in my house..... Still have not had time to do a Blew Ray/ HD comparison on the DP-100 Brad but that is comming up this Monday. I don't expect to be able to see any real marked difference between the two either!!

Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-16-2007, 11:49 AM:
 
Oh if you can hear the difference between the various digital formats, you can certainly see the difference between HD and BluRay.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 11-16-2007, 01:09 PM:
 
Was that sarcasm?

Disclaimer:
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-16-2007, 01:35 PM:
 
What is the local storage for? Why would I need to access the internet while watching a movie? Why do these things try to be everything?
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-16-2007, 02:46 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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Just because it is in print doesn't make it right...the person that wrote that article, is dead wrong. 1080i has half the information of 1080p, period. There is quite literally a doubling of picture quality to be had by using a 1080p source on a 1080p device.

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quote: Joe Redifer

---

What is the local storage for? Why would I need to access the internet while watching a movie? Why do these things try to be everything?

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quote: Brad Miller

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The Samsung 1400 IS 1.1

They are also amazingly cheap at amazon.com

---

I got excited when I came across this the other day as well. I wasn't aware that Samsung (or anyone) had released a player that had an ethernet jack and was Profile 1.1 / Final Standard Profile / Bonus View compatible. On top of all that, the price was great!

Unfortunately, it's not a 1.1 player, and the comments that I've read about this player have not been positive whatsoever. Many tales of the player just shutting down half way through a movie, not being able to connect to Samsung for updates, and no ETA from Samsung for fixes. People are returning them for lesser-equipped players just so they can have some stability.

That's too bad, as I was excited for about an hour that there was finally a Blu-ray player I'd be willing to buy.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-16-2007, 05:08 PM:
 
Ah, so the storage space is so they can rush movies to market without quality control and fix them later. Awesome. Also, why not just put downloadable footage, I dunno, on the disc itself? Oh wait, that is too logical.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2007, 07:45 PM:
 
Apparentyly there are ALOT of problems with the Samsung BDP-1400. Yous guys might wanna check out THIS thread before you buy one.... They appear to be cheap for a good reason and they say they only work a little bit better after the latest firmware upgrade is done. Some 1.1 disks won't play at all.

Mark
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-16-2007, 09:41 PM:
 
First time a player shuts down in the middle of a movie on me, I take my own very special proprietary tool to it -- a 30 pound fire ax, bringing it down directly in the center of the its Hi-Def damned soul. It also helps if you let out a high pitched blood curdling yell as you follow through with the swing. Have you any idea how good it feels to deal with a recalcetrant piece of hardware with this marvelous tool?

Trust me, you will forget about the fact that you didn't get to see the end of the movie...you will feel much, MUCH better. It also garners much respect from family and friends who witness you making the fix; I've seen it in their eyes.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-16-2007, 10:56 PM:
 
Profile 2.0 sounds like it could possibly be fixed via firmware. The new Samsung duo player will have the 1gig of memory, however only be a profile 1.1 player. With a quick flash, I'm guessing it can be 2.0. This seems like the player to get. I'm not to crazy about my player jumping on the internet. When it comes time to back-up my movies on a burnable blu-ray disc, I heard it migght be possible for the player to get shut down if something out there detects that you have a "bootleg" disc playing. I can see the 2nd video decoder and memory have lots of different uses, I only bad uses for the internet.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-16-2007, 11:57 PM:
 
I will never connect a dedicated movie player to the internet. Who knows what info that thing would be sending back home (though I'm sure it'd depend on the disc).
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-18-2007, 08:41 AM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I heard it migght be possible for the player to get shut down if something out there detects that you have a "bootleg" disc playing. I can see the 2nd video decoder and memory have lots of different uses, I only bad uses for the internet.

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quote:

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Blu-ray and HD DVD copy protection defeated by...print screen?

Posted Jul 7th 2006 12:29PM by Richard Lawler
Filed under: Industry, Sony, Toshiba
After all the debate over AACS, ICT, BD+ and all the rest, both Blu-ray and HD DVD's copy protection system has already been hacked, if you can even call it a hack. In the oddest way to sidestep DRM since the infamous shift-key to disable AutoRun incident, German mag C't has discovered you can record protected high-def flicks in full resolution via automating the print screen function of the provided Intervideo WinDVD software. Both Sony's Vaio and Toshiba's Qosmio laptops with Blu-ray and HD DVD drives respectively come bundled with the software, and are vulnerable to the hack. Quite simply, it can be used to capture the movies frame-by-frame, and then reassembled to create the entire movie. Not the most elegant solution, but they claim it works.

Toshiba has already confirmed the problem, and has announced updates for the software and drivers that disable the print screen function. Interestingly, if you have the software it does not appear to violate AACS and would potentially not face being locked out by a future AACS key update. Expect a pirate run on all remaining non-upgraded laptops and to see the aforementioned WinDVD OEM software floating around your local file sharing network any time now. All those delays, and all those licensing fees, defeated by a button thats been around as long as we can remember. The article detailing their find will be published Monday July 10, unless the DMCA ninjas get to it first.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Really, its stupid if you think it through... bootlegs can still be made by filming off screen anyway.

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quote: Steve Guttag

---

Scott...the article makes several mistakes...first is the CRT can only do an interlace display...no it CAN do an interlace display, digitals really can't...there is a difference. I think the author is tripping up on that one that since all digital displays must work with progressive, he concludes that all will be put to rights when it hits the screen....a false presumption.

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quote:

---

For clarification, let me start by saying that there are essentially no 1080i TVs anymore. Unless you bought a CRT based TV, every modern TV is progressive scan (as in LCD, Plasma, LCOS, DLP). They are incapable of displaying a 1080i signal as 1080i. So what we’re talking about here mostly applies to people with 1080p native displays.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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If the material is stored on the disc as 24p...there is really one operation to do to get it to the display...either have the monitor switch to 48 or 72Hz to display each image 2 or 3 times or go through a 3:2 pull down conversion. Note, this is not the same as interlace versus progressive. A 3:2 pull down conversion going from progressive to progressive involves how many times each image is shown...but the entire image is shown each time. Once you cut the image in half by interlacing, you also introduce timing issues...having the image is moving at one time...on a 3:2 conversion of an interlaced image has a frame with half of the old image and half of the new image...even the references from the articles show this...when the screen has half of one image with half of the the other and there is motion involved...you will get jutter...digital images or no. To say it is a matter of deinterlacing in the display or the player is wrong...if the image is progressive on the disc and it is progressive out of the player it remains progressive. Why must it EVER be cut up and interlaced at all if both systems can work with progressive?

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quote: Steve Guttag

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BTW...have you compared progressive to interlaced on movies? If not...do so and report back.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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just to impress your friends

---

Screw my friends, I'm looking to impress me.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-20-2007, 06:17 PM:
 
Me too, but I'm not easily impressed. I figure maybe if I settle for something that impresses my friends, it might be "good enough" for me....but it usually isn't.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-20-2007, 07:18 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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What's stupid is a person willing to watch a video of a movie that was taped off of a movie theater screen. Anyone who has such low standards is indeed a complete moron.

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At last you and I finally agree 100% on something .

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-25-2007, 01:52 PM:
 

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

What I understood that to mean is that he's referring to modern (non-CRT) HD displays

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

The point you're missing is that unless the player is outputting 24fps, it is performing the conversions you are looking to avoid. The article demonstrates that players of both formats are converting from 1080p24 to 1080i60 as well as inserting the 2:3 sequence.

If the player is outputting a 24fps signal, then yes, I agree that the 2:3 is not happening inside the player. If the display is not a native 24/48/72/120Hz display, that's just a matter of geography, because the 2:3 sequence is being done in the TV, and how much do you want to bet there is a progressive to interlace conversion happening in the process?

---

quote: Scott Jentsch

---

Yes, I have seen the difference between interlaced and progressive in regards to movies. Thanks for your concern! This was the primary reason I upgraded my second generation DVD player to one that output a progressive signal that was handled better by my projector than the interlaced signal that was being output previously.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

My point was that CRTs can display progressive...interlace is not an intrinsic part of the CRT technology...it is just that they CAN display an interlace as well.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

TV was perfected

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I think that there is a lot of overthinking going on. Just look at the picture and if you like it, buy the unit. Who gives a crap the numbers don't come out. If your looking for an ultimate player that does every mathmatical conversion known to man and out puts a 50000p just to impress your friends and tell them that you have the ultimate machine, then fine. Most people care about a good looking picture, period. Soemtimes "Good Enough" really is "Good Enough".

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

likewise I show the poorly mastered one (Alien) so they can see

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

You sound like a whore for the DVD Forum with all the whiny "Blew Ray" baloney.

---

Well, I guess if Monte F. can keep referring to eBay as "eBone," Mark can keep using "Blew Ray."
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-29-2007, 01:12 AM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

You sound like a whore for the DVD Forum with all the whiny "Blew Ray" baloney. Is Toshiba paying you for that "sales pitch," and if so how much?

---

Bobby... you sound jealous that you didn't get to go to Fry's! Will they ever build one in Oklahoma? Doubtful!

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I am buying the new duo player because it is Samsungs first Profile 1.1 unit.

---

Oh quit the crap Frank! Admit it! You're stuck buying either that or a seperate HD-DVD player so you can enjoy all the great HD-DVD software out there. Like it or not thats life... I would never be the first to shell out 700 bucks for any first generation product especially from a manufacturer whose other Blew Ray player still wouldn't operate properly after how many firmware upgrades??? Sorry but I'll wait till there is a 99.00 Blew ray player to go along with my 99.00 HD-DVD player because thats all either of these systems warrants. Then I'll take that 500.00 difference over what you'll be spending on a Sammysung dual player whose operation is already doubtful and spend it on Blew Ray software and all you'll be watchin are the movies that came with the machine .

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I bought into BLU-RAY because of the software available, the different manufacturers to choose from, and the larger storage capacity of the disc.

---

Software available... well, thats only half the HD software available . and there are HD-DVD players available other than the Toshiba! Actually both formats are about even with number of titles or software available.

Now in the data software storage realm the Blew Ray has something going for itself but the hype about the extra storage pertaining to movies to watch at home is sheer nonsense, whats a second disk cost to make....?? A dime perhaps! The storage capacity issue is just about as important as was the Toshiba order by internet firmware upgrade.

Mark
 

---

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 11-29-2007, 01:10 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

I would never be the first to shell out 700 bucks for any first generation product especially from a manufacturer whose other Blew Ray player still wouldn't operate properly after how many firmware upgrades?

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Software available... well, thats only half the HD software available

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

I'll take that 500.00 difference over what you'll be spending on a Sammysung dual player whose operation is already doubtful and spend it on Blew Ray software

---

quote:

---

there are HD-DVD players available other than the Toshiba!

---

Other than the dual format machines, and Microsofts add-on to the x-box 360, throw some names out there. Blu-Ray has Sony, Samsung, Denon, Sharp, Pioneer Elite


 

---

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 11-29-2007, 10:13 PM:
 

quote: Marky Mark

---

As for HD-DVD they had the usual stuff at the usual lower than Blew Ray prices but they also had the top of the line Toshiba player as well at the usual prices and the 5 free movies rebate slips were located in several places through out the DVD player aisle.

---

I like how you post the Blu Ray price at "400 on up" but yet you try to hide the top of the line HD DVD player with "usual prices" which is comparable to Blu Ray pricing now ($399 or so). Oh, and Blu Ray also does the 5 free movies thing too.

Here's another "nail in the coffin" for Hd DVD:

Blu Ray

This is the only part in regards to Hi Def dvds

The high-definition format war tilted even more heavily in favor of Blu-ray Disc despite a rash of inexpensive HD DVD players sold through Wal-Mart and other discount retailers in recent weeks. Nielsen VideoScan data for the week shows 72.6% of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray and just 27.4% were HD DVD. HD DVD players have been selling for as little as $98, one-fourth the lowest street price for a Blu-ray player.
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-29-2007, 11:27 PM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Of course you will, because you won't be a able to find any HD-DVD movies.

---

If there isn't going to be any HD-DVD then why on earth are you so concerned about buying a dual format player? Frank... you just keep on setting yourself up .

Mark
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-30-2007, 12:42 AM:
 

quote:

---

Bobby... you sound jealous that you didn't get to go to Fry's! Will they ever build one in Oklahoma? Doubtful!

---

quote:

---

If there isn't going to be any HD-DVD then why on earth are you so concerned about buying a dual format player? Frank... you just keep on setting yourself up [Big Grin] [Razz] .

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I am buying the new duo player because it is Samsungs first Profile 1.1 unit. If the BD-P2400 was available for $200 less at the same time this new duo player comes out, I would purchase it instead. The only thing it will not have is the HD-DVD compatibility.

---

I WANT the BD-P2400 because it is everything that the BD-UP5000 duo player is, minus the HD-DVD compatibility. Unfortunately, it will be delayed longer than I want to wait. Personally, I wouldn't pay the extra $200 for the duo if the 2400 was sitting right next to it....but Best Buy has a limited return policy, and I must make my purchase sooner than the 2400 is slated to be released.

LONG LIVE BLU-RAY

HD-DVD - R.I.P.
 

---

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 11-30-2007, 02:42 AM:
 

quote:

---

and there are HD-DVD players available other than the Toshiba!

---

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

According the official HD-DVD site, Toshiba and Venturer are the only two brands on the market and they offer a total of 4 players.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

That makes it pretty clear that customers will either have to buy a dual format player or buy two players.

---

quote:

---

You're not going to get any Blu-Ray versions of new releases like The Bourne Ultimatum, one of the biggest hits of 2007.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Star Wars on Blu-Ray would not kill the HD-DVD format, just as a HD-DVD-only release of The Lord of the Rings movies wouldn't kill Blu-Ray either.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Completely disagree. Star Wars is still huge.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

The original Star Wars movies are old.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Yes...but VERY popular. They have conventions, fan movies, toys, a new TV series, several cartoon series...HUGE. Rings? Ummm?

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

The Star Wars movies would put a HUGE dent in Blu-Ray sales and I still stick by what I said about it nailing the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray debate closed.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Remember, people that are 30 now, were probably standing in line for episode I when they were 22-23.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

And it's not Fox that would be the one to release them. It's Lucas.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

The dual format players will soften the effects of the war, but eventually all studios will settle on one format.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

The consumers barely cared just as long as it was in digital.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

The debate is still open because you haven't proved your point.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

With everything Blu-Ray offers NOW, the addition of Fox putting out Star Wars, or the Alien movies would definately seal HD-DVD's fate. The sooner they release the good stuff, the quicker they can put HD-DVD out of my misery.

---

If that were even close to true, don't you think that these companies dedicated to one side or the other would release these "format-killers" immediately? Why would they mess around with promoting this or that and wasting money when all they have to do is drop these magical movies on their opponent and end the war all together?
 

---

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-02-2007, 08:44 PM:
 
I don't know how they think, so I can't answer. Why did they wait so long to put them out on DVD? Even though that format was solid, Lucas and Speilberg waited. Maybe its like that ketchup commerical...anticipation.
 

---

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 12-02-2007, 09:32 PM:
 
They waited to put them on DVD so they could milk VHS for every penny before moving on. That's why Star Wars is available in so many different variations of it before releasing the "canonical" version in 2004 on DVD, only to follow up with original theatrical versions in 2006. George Lucas is a money whore, and if he thought the world would buy a Blu-Ray version up to the point of crushing an entire competing format, it would be out already, I promise you.
 

---

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-02-2007, 11:03 PM:
 
Well Blu-Ray isnt going to be the end-all format when it comes to hi-def. It is mearly another format that looks better than the previous format. What else can George do to Star Wars on DVD? He can probably remaster the original non-special edition, and thats about it. George likes his cash, but then again, he created a bankable product. All he does is make the items to sell PEOPLE go out spend the cash on these different versions. You can't blame him for continuing to do it.

It is my opinion that Star Wars WOULD make Blu-Ray the winner. I don't know of any product HD-DVD could put out that would convince me to dump my Blu-Rays. If the Indiana Jones movies came out for HD-DVD, I'd consider getting a player to play them, if I didn't already have a duo player.
 

---

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-03-2007, 12:33 AM:
 

quote:

---

I don't think that having Disney in the Blu-Ray camp is enough to draw people from HD-DVD,

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

How do you explain the 20th Century Fox logos on all the previous video releases, including all of those DVDs?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I'm sure Fox is already pestering George Lucas about it.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I think it will take at least several years for that to happen, if ever.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

If the Indiana Jones movies came out for HD-DVD, I'd consider getting a player to play them, if I didn't already have a duo player.

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

Spielberg movies are exempt from the Paramount deal. They could be released in either format. And since he prefers Blu-Ray, well.... see Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind.

---

Exempt? Where did you read that? Close Encounters was released via blu-Ray because it is Columbia Pictures, owned by...SONY.
 

---

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-03-2007, 09:35 AM:
 
Oh, duh. Yeah, you're right about it being Sony.

But I did read that Spielberg movies were exempt from the Paramount deal. Somewhere. I forget where I read it.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-03-2007, 07:27 PM:
 
Best Buy is selling Sony Blu-rays for $399. The price dropped about a week ago. So the HD DVD A30 and the Sony Blu-ray systems are now exactly the same price. In the HD DVD system you get 5 free DVD's by mail with 2 in the box. With the Blu-ray system, you still get 5 free DVD's by mail and none in the box so you have to wait.

I think I will go with the Blu-ray because it has a coax output for the 5.1 sound and I already have a 15ft coax cable for my Projector/DVD system.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-03-2007, 08:46 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

---

I think the Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS analogy is a bit poor. It wasn't consumers choosing the formats.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Well, if Fox would release the Star Wars movies, then my point would be proven. You haven't proven that the movies wouldn't push blu-Ray to victory.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

You compare Star Wars to Disney. Why? They are different. Disney has a large vault of great animated movies and that's nice. I don't think that having Disney in the Blu-Ray camp is enough to draw people from HD-DVD, however, it is a big help.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

With everything Blu-Ray offers NOW, the addition of Fox putting out Star Wars, or the Alien movies would definately seal HD-DVD's fate.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I don't know how they think, so I can't answer. Why did they wait so long to put them out on DVD?

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I'm not saying Disney is bad at all...in fact, I like Disney. What I am saying is that having Disney, Fox, etc etc ALL together makes Blu-Ray stronger. If they were to get Fox to release the Star Wars movies and Alien movies, and maybe have Disney release some its big time animated classics, HD-DVD would be done.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

Exempt? Where did you read that? Close Encounters was released via blu-Ray because it is Columbia Pictures, owned by...SONY.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

That comment is retarded. Disney animated movies are the top selling genre in home video.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

A Star Wars Blu-Ray release would be irrelevant to the legally binding contracts Univeral, Paramount and Dreamworks have on releasing exclusively on HD-DVD.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Your assumptions about what age groups will find Disney movies appealing is also odd.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

That comment would only make sense if Univeral, Paramount, Dreamworks, Warner Bros. and New Line had no catalog of hit movies. As long those studios care to release their hits exclusively on HD-DVD that format is going to live on despite what gets released on Blu-Ray.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I may not be able to prove mine...but then again, it's simply my opinion. No one needs to prove opinion.

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

Don't you guys know any history of electronic media? The same thing happened back in the early days of records...some companies were supporting the "LP" format (33 1/3) and others were supporting the 45RPM format. Neither format won out definitively, in fact each found its own niche, so all of the companies released music on both formats.

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

I don't understand why the video companies didn't take a lesson from the CD introduction, which was a gigantic success because everyone was on the same page...

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Opinions need to be backed up with actual logic and facts rather than mere speculation for those opinions to be taken seriously. The claim that Star Wars on Blu-Ray would kill the HD-DVD format is pure, spit-balling speculation. It is a wild guess, one that I don't find very well supported either.

---

Wow, another retarded statement. No, opinions don't have to be backed up by anything...thats why their called opinions. Whether you take it seriously or not, is up to you. I have mine, you have yours and we simply won't agree on this subject. Moving on.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-04-2007, 12:42 PM:
 
Frank, you had a typo in your last post. You should have written it like this.

"Another retarded statement: opinions don't have to be backed up by anything."
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-04-2007, 04:31 PM:
 
I'm glad you have the time to correct my grammar. Get a life.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-04-2007, 05:53 PM:
 
Well Frank, if you're going to go around calling people's posts "retarded" while having a bunch of typos and bad grammar in your own posts, you deserve whatever criticism you get.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-04-2007, 05:58 PM:
 
Well, if you would notice, he called my posts retarded first. So screw him. If people have nothing better to do on this forum than go around checking peoples grammar and punctuation, they seriously, they need to get a life.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-04-2007, 06:11 PM:
 
Oh sorry...I would have checked that but I don't have time.

But seriously, some people like certain kinds of music...others like to watch out for grammar, spelling and such. Personally I think it's sad that so many mistakes find their way into so-called professional publications like newspapers, magazines and such. (At least on a forum like this, the writing is informal and not being done for a paycheck.)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2007, 07:45 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Frank, you had a typo in your last post. You should have written it like this.

"Another retarded statement: opinions don't have to be backed up by anything."

---

Mike,

At least this is definite proof that Bobby and Frank are operating at the same level!
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-04-2007, 07:47 PM:
 
Two things...

As to grammar and spelling...for forums like this, I normally just do a one-pass with no re-reads. As such, typos spellings and you name it tend to creep in. There is a reason when one writes something for publication (or to be graded) you proof read everything. Spelling has never been my strong suit to begin with. I would suspect that if I needed to take the time to make everything correct, I would post less as it would be a bother (a blessing to some, I'm sure! )

As to the Frank/Bobby spat...sorry Frank, Bobby is right on target. He brings an educated position to his opinion...you seem to just bring gut feeling, which would be hard to substantiate. In short, it is just a thought spouted out loud for all to hear.

Nobody is going to say that Star Wars is still not a significant video to reckon with but it is complete lunacy to think such a franchise could topple such a market while there are 2-year contracts in force by a significant number of studios.

In Bobby's example, he was using Disney because it isn't a franchise but a studio with the most significant video sales/rentals. Most of its catalog is indeed old but specifically designed to appeal to EACH generation. This is why Disney can bring out is features in either theatres or video form every 7-years or so to ensure it will be fresh for the next generation (they have only been doing it for the last 3/4 of a Century). I only have one 2-year old...do you know how many videos with the Disney Logo on them we have? The number of Disney badged videos (not even the adult fare mind you) versus our Star Wars branded videos is staggering. You could build a mountain of Disney videos over all of my Star Wars videos (and I have several versions of the Star Wars...LDs and DVDs). StarWars is the greatest franchise the cinema industry has ever known. It is guaranteed money in the bank when they are released. It is dwarfed by an entire studio's releases, particularly Disney.

You will find that there is a "blip" in society that will think StarWars is a big deal but in time it will look progressively dated for part of what made it so great was what came before it and just how damn fun it was. Disney's kid oriented fare get a whole new set of kids continually. Its a never ending pool.

I think Bobby would have had less problem with you saying something to the effect of "my gut feeling is StarWars will tip the scales" than just making a bold non-factual statement and justifying it as opinion. Sure we all have opinions but without substance behind them, they are just static on the internet.

Regards,

Steve
 

---

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-04-2007, 08:03 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

---

In short, it is just a thought spouted out loud for all to hear.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Sure we all have opinions but without substance behind them, they are just static on the internet.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

I think Bobby would have had less problem with you saying something to the effect of "my gut feeling is StarWars will tip the scales"

---

quote:

---

At least this is definite proof that Bobby and Frank are operating at the same level!

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

...as if I care what Bobby thinks of me or my opinion.

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

I feel I'm right, and Booby thinks he's right.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Aren't you the same guy that sends customers back to pick up trash in auditoriums? If so, then yes you do indeed have "opinions"

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

Now this is interesting. Is it just another Frank typo, or is he name-calling Bobby?

---

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

No, that whole thread was misinterpreted. So let's let that one go.

---

Oh but why? Check out THIS set of opinions from Frank. Its a hoot!
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-05-2007, 12:06 PM:
 
Ok Frank and company...enough of your playing. Further comments in these regards on this thread will be deleted. Let's get back to the HD vs. Blu-Ray discussions please.
 

---

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 12-05-2007, 01:14 PM:
 
WOW! The Film-Tech forums are better entertainment than any of the movies in current release!

Back on the thread topic:

I am waiting on the whole HD-DVD/Blue-Ray thing. Currently I have a DVD player that upconverts to an HD quality picture using regular DVD's. It's looks great too on my HDTV screen.

I can't justify purchasing the equipment or the new discs right now. Especially not until the industry decides on a standard.

I have a vast DVD collection and some of these discs were purchased from other countries. My current player has the ability to play any region and NTSC/PAL discs. Why would I want to change it now?



[ 12-05-2007, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Dennis Benjamin ]
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-05-2007, 04:29 PM:
 

quote: Dennis Benjamin

---

I have a DVD player that upconverts to an HD quality picture using regular DVD's.

---

quote:

---

WOW! The Film-Tech forums are better entertainment than any of the movies in current release!

---

That's not saying much, although I did get a good laugh out of Joe's last post.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-05-2007, 06:50 PM:
 
Lots of people are really foggy on the concept of "native resolution."

I often have fun dealing with that issue when customers bring in their "art" files for me to use. People want a photo with hardly enough pixels to fill much of a web page blown up onto a billboard. And some will actually insist they know Photoshop can "uprez" the image to whatever size needed. Well, sure it can! But the result is going to look like shit. Same thing goes with their bitmappy "logo" art. Great for a web page. Shitty for everything else.


With that common hazard at the workplace, I'm not one bit surprised by anyone making the claim they're getting "HD quality" from their 480p DVDs.

What is the region coding situation with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players? Are they still doing the same sort of thing done on standard DVD? I can see the need for someone to hang onto a region-free DVD player if he has lots of imported discs. But I imagine it won't take very long before we start seeing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players which can play discs with various regional codings.
 

---

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 12-05-2007, 08:07 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

What is the region coding situation with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players?

---

You can play imported HD material discs on the current players. So like on those HD-DVD Combo Discs, the HD side is non-region coded but the SD side is region coded.
 

---

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 12-05-2007, 10:34 PM:
 
I am 100% happy with my current set up. Whether it's true HD or not. The picture looks good and that's all that counts.


 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-05-2007, 10:54 PM:
 

quote:

---

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/05/michael-bay-talks-hd-dvd-and-microsofts-dirty-secret/

Michael Bay has been sipping the "Kool-Aid" again. Several months after the director's infamous night with a band of Blu-ray owners and a few glasses of alternate-reality drink (ending in a brief holdout with Transformers 2 on the line), Bay is back to blasting HD DVD. Despite a sobering HD DVD screening of 300 in late-August and newfound acceptance of Paramount's decision to partner with Microsoft, Bay has fallen off the wagon, stumbling onto a trail of deceit leading to a "dirty secret," a corporate plot to annihilate all forms of our beloved polycarbonate discs -- with explosions, lots of 'em.

Bay writes, "Microsoft wants both [HD DVD and Blu-ray] formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just [to] embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray [sic]. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."

While we can't verify just how many $100 million checks have been cashed (we know of just the one we received to ensure the Sony bias keeps flowing), we do know what Bill Gates told us nearly a year ago: "HD DVD is great ... It's neat. But over time, eventually online is going to be more important." That don't sound like no secret to us. Sony was early to the HD movie market and Microsoft didn't want its competitor to run away with a new format before it could get the proper digital distribution network and hardware in place. HD DVD certainly can be viewed as a stalling tactic, and two formats with varying Hollywood support is definitely confusing to consumers, but let's not mistake reality for Michael Bay's vision of Armageddon.

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

I'm sure it will happen

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

How will I show people stuff I create on my HDTV? Upload it to Microsoft first?

---

Well, aside from wondering how you can create anything on your HDTV (sorry), I can see that happening too. Your "entertainment package" will probably have an option for you to store your own stuff, and the software you create it with will probably automatically upload it to your storage area when you "save" it. When the pipeline gets big enough and reliable enough, anything is possible.
 

---

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 12-06-2007, 01:56 PM:
 
I think after 30+ pages I can give my opinion on this matter...I own a PS3, so I use Blu-Ray and I like it. The pictures crisp and clear on my 36" 720p widescreen tv.

That is all
 

---

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-10-2007, 03:48 PM:
 
Wow, I'm away for a while and this thread explodes!

re: Region Coding

Blu-ray discs can be region-coded, and most commercial discs are. HD DVD does not have any region coding built into the format. You can buy European HD DVD releases of titles that are Blu-ray exclusive in the U.S. and play them. Xploited Cinema is a popular importer of such titles.

re: Paramount Blu-ray titles

Paramount has issued a recall of all Blu-ray titles from warehouses, so any remaining inventory is to be returned to Paramount. Whether that happens or not, who knows. I don't know what the effective date of that recall is, but Amazon.com still has Blu-ray editions of Mission Impossible for sale.

re: Samsung BD-P5000 dual-format player

Reports are mixed about when this player will be available. Amazon is reporting 1/15/2008. Some sites are saying that Samsung is telling them that the players are being shipped to dealers right now and will be available before Christmas. Who to believe? I'll believe it when I see them on the shelf and the proof will be the reviews. My guess is that the unit will not have Profile 1.1 functionality before February, and it will need a few firmware updates to resolve post-release bugs (I don't have much confidence in Samsung to release a fully functional unit).

re: HD DVD vs. Blu-ray - What will swing the balance?

If the studio situation stays the way it is now, nothing will swing the balance of the two formats. HD DVD is selling a lot of standalone players with the recent specials since the beginning of November, and the latest reports of Blu-ray sales have placed a huge percentage of those sales on the back of the PlayStation 3. If I recall correctly, the number is 2.5 million PS3's and 200k standalones. HD DVD has said that 750k standalones and XBox 360 Add-ons have been sold so far.

The swing vote is in the software arena. It's the reason why there's a war in the first place. If all studios were to release on both formats, the war wouldn't matter. If all studios were to release only on one format, the war wouldn't exist. The cards are all in the hands of the studios, because they make the movies that we all want to enjoy in HD.

Warner Bros. is that swing vote. They have said that hardware sales in 4Q2007 were going to be key in their decision about whether to back both formats as they have been doing, or to put their support behind just one. They've been doing both formats from the beginning (as Paramount was before their switch), so they have a really good grasp of the benefits and costs of each.

If WB switches to either format exclusively, it will cause a massive shift in the format war. If they go HD DVD only, Disney and Fox will buckle (in my opinion) and begin releasing on HD DVD. Sony/Columbia will come along very grudgingly. If they go Blu-ray, the same thing will happen on the other side. Universal will contemplate a change, and Paramount will be looking at the fine print of their agreement with the HD DVD group.

re: Hardware Mfrs, and the number making HD DVD players / Blu-ray players.

How many companies are making Xbox 360's? How about Playstation 3's or Wii's? Given the incredibly small sales of the non-Sony machines capable of playing Blu-ray discs, I think that the number of manufacturers behind each format is pretty much a non-issue. The competition that should exist between Blu-ray manufacturers just doesn't seem to have helped us consumers any. Where is the innovation? Where is the price competition?

I think Toshiba has done a very good job of providing consumers with a wide array of players at various price points and with multiple levels of functionality at those price points. Would Pioneer be able to sell a $1,000 HD DVD player? I doubt it. What could they do to make it appealing when there are full-featured Toshiba HD-A35's out there selling for $360? Slap some woodgrain panels on the side and put an "Elite" label on it? The reviews for the Toshiba's are too good for them to be able to do that.

If one side wins this war, one thing is certain: customers will lose. Anyone who bought a player that only plays the losing format will be out that money in regards to future usability. They will be able to play the discs already produced, but going forward, they'll have to buy the winning format. Considering the price of these players (on both sides, but even worse for people who shelled out $500 - $1000 for a Blu-ray player or top-of-the-line HD DVD player last year), that's gonna sting. It's going to impact the adoption rate of the winning format (esp. if the winner is the one with the $400+ players), because the money spent on the first hardware purchase doesn't auto-magically reappear, and software sales are going to be impacted because people will have paid for new hardware.

The only winning proposition for consumers is for all studios to produce discs in both formats. I don't buy that multiple SKU's are that big a pain, because if they were, studios wouldn't put out widescreen, full-screen, and widescreen special editions of the same title on a regular basis. Creating one HD encoding is being done now, and it comes down to the interactivity layer that has to be done twice. Warner seems to be up to the task, as tomorrows Harry Potter release demonstrates.

Studios could make the format war go away tomorrow if they came out and publicly said that they were going to be releasing for both formats from now on. We all win, they all win, and we can get back to enjoying movies instead of debating formats.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-10-2007, 09:12 PM:
 
From IMDB today.

Even On Biggest Day, Hi-Def Players Can't Beat Ordinary DVD Players

Putting those reports of huge sales of high-definition video players on Black Friday in perspective, Video Business magazine said on its website Friday that while 57,000 HD DVD and Blu-ray players were indeed sold the day after Thanksgiving, 600,000 standard definition DVD players were sold on the same day. The trade magazine, citing research by market analyst DisplaySearch, also observed that 62 percent of the high-definition players sold on that day were in the HD DVD format (largely as a result of a $99 one-day only deal initiated by Wal Mart).

IMDB link
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2007, 09:58 PM:
 
Mike,

IMDB needs to do their homwork!! Or... Don't believe everything you read .
The 99.00 deal was held for one day about a week and a half before Black Friday and was at Wal-Mart.... And the player they offered on Black Friday was the mid level player I believe priced at 179.00 with 2 disks in the box and 5 free by mail... not the el-cheapo model.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-10-2007, 10:01 PM:
 

quote: Mike Blakesley

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Even On Biggest Day, Hi-Def Players Can't Beat Ordinary DVD Players

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quote: Scott Jentsch

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I would even go so far as to say that the SD-only version should be abolished in favor of the HD DVD/DVD combo disc format so that the volume can be higher, compatibility is maintained, and the economy of scale from that volume kicks in.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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I have no interest in purchasing recorded music in a compressed DRM-ridden format (a la itunes).

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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The general public is not enthusiastic about the product anymore because it stinks of being the same old shit. Hardly any of it is fresh and new.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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It's funny how spoiled people are now. People will spend $1k and up on a TV set, but will balk at a $200 HD player and $25 disks.

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quote: Larry Myers

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I just got a Samsung BDP1400 Blu-ray DVD player at Curcuit City for $299 with 8 mail in Free DVD's.

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I hope it all works as advertised. Many people have had hideous problems with their BDP-1400's even after several Firmware gestations. I also thought the price was close to what I'd be willing to pay for the other HD format but I resisted... about 200 bucks... but then I'd still essentially be paying for the 5 free disks .
Look at me... complaining about buying $25.00 disks .

Mark
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-13-2007, 07:19 PM:
 
As I said, I get to use it for 30 days and if I don't like it for any reason "what so ever", I get to take it back. Since I need the coaxial hookup it makes things easier with this unit.

I didn't buy any Blu ray dics. I just rented The Patriot in Blu-ray for $4 since I already had the standard disc and I wanted to see the difference.

The Blu Ray resolution stands out right away at the begining of the movie. The opening scene on the war chest, you can see the weave detail in the green ribbons which are wrapped around some envelopes in the chest at 720P. The engraving on the tomahawk is also very detailed. You do not see this ribbon weave in the standard DVD and the tomahawk looks somewhat flat.

The standard DVD is about 2.35 ratio but the Blu-ray is a solid 2.50 like the old CinemaScope movies of the mid 50's. The image is not simply cropped top and bottom but rather wider then standard 2.35. It really looks great and at this point worth the money. Then my Sony 5.1 system also works great the 12 ft coaxial cable. No need for a 12 ft optical cable at this point.

So the bottom line is, if I get a software glitch in the next 30 days, it goes back.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2007, 09:02 PM:
 
I wouldn't let the digital audio form determine things there are items out there that will convert between coax/toslink...

http://www.avtoolbox.com/pof830.shtml

AV Tool Box's unit is cheap too...list price is something like $35.00 so street price is bound to be less. In fact, there are several that can be found for the $25.00 and under range.

Steve
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-13-2007, 09:24 PM:
 

quote: Larry Myers

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The Blu Ray resolution stands out right away at the begining of the movie.

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quote: Larry Myers

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I just got a Samsung BDP1400 Blu-ray DVD player at Curcuit City for $299 with 8 mail in Free DVD's. I decided on the Blu-Ray because of my necessary coaxial sound connection that the HD DVD players do not have. Right now I am running component cables so the setting has to be 720P. Even at 720P, the picture looks great projected with my Panasonic Projector. Also the Video Rental House down the street rents Blu Ray discs for $4 @ 5 days. They do not handle HD DVD's.

I will get myself a HDMI cable and set it up to 1080P within the week

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quote: Larry Myers

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Some Tech guy said the reason HD-DVD players do not have a coaxial system for the sound connection is because the HD-DVD sound data is different and will not work on a coaxial line. It needs an optical line. So the elimination of the Coaxail connection was not to save a few dimes but rather for good technical reasons. So a conversion is not possible. At least that is what he says. I would need a 12ft optical cable to use HD-DVD.

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quote: Larry Myers

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The projector I am using is the Panasonic PT-AX100U and it will do 1080p.

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The Panasonic PT-AX100U according to online documentation is a 1280x720 panel projector. Does anyone care to explain to Larry why this is a shitty projector to be viewing 1080 content on?
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-14-2007, 02:02 PM:
 
Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

In any event, I really don't care that the project only does 1280 X 720. The idea is to get the best balance digital system I can with sound and image for a few thousand dollars.

Although in Brads own way, he does have a very important point. He is saying that my system is already "Balls to the Wall" and any additional money spent on cables or otherwise is really money down the drain. None the less, I do believe a will purchase a 3 ft $25 HDMI cable at Wal-Mart for that next 1080p step to see where it goes.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-14-2007, 02:46 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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The playstation 3 is the ONLY reason they have sold ANY Blew Ray players at all.

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Gimme a break. You need to use some common sense. True, Playstation 3 represents a large quantity of Blu-Ray capable machines, but so what? Too bad XBOX 360 can't do the same for HD-DVD.

quote:

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Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

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quote:

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Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

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Great way to talk to the moderator of this forum. Perhaps even a little risky. You claimed your projector had 1920 X 1080 "1080p" resolution. Brad pointed out that you were wrong about that.

I don't know, but is it that you're a bit peeved because you might have thought you had a 1080p projector and now the truth is revealed that you do not?

I've been pretty militant about avoiding HDTV products that don't really deliver the full 1920 X 1080 pixel picture and do so with both video source and computer source connections. It is only within the last several months that HDTV products are finally delivering on those points after all these years.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-14-2007, 04:24 PM:
 
Thanks Steve. I believe you know where I am going with this. If Brad is right and I think he is, I will not see much difference between 720p and 1080p with the Panasonic PT-AX100U projector. If that is the case then the only upgrade besides a new projector would be a sound system that as a HDMI input and output. Micro Center has 12 ft HDMI cables for about $70. The 3 ft one are $25. I do know I am not going to replace that Panasonic projector any time soon unless I get a really good trade-in.

Actually I think Brad is cool. He has some good ideas. General Patton never lost respect for his adversaries. He always said, they were just as much a SOB as he was.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-14-2007, 04:29 PM:
 
Try Monoprice for your HDMI cables. I buy my stuff there and they have good quality cables at an excellent price. They also ship very fast...
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-14-2007, 05:14 PM:
 
I have never, ever seen a Sony receiver that I liked. They are always piping the lows from the main channels into the subwoofer or the subwoofer is completely turned off. Personally, I only like the subwoofer on when it is being discretely called for. The front channels are more than adequate to handle the lows on the shitty, non-discrete stuff.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-14-2007, 07:50 PM:
 
I have a Sony receiver that anyone here can have if they come and pick it up! It was basically given to me by the store when I bought my Mitsubishi HD rear screen about 8 years ago.

Mark
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-14-2007, 08:40 PM:
 
Well Brad is exactly right. The 1080p setting with the HDMI cable is no better then 720p with component cable using a Panasonic 1280x720 projector.

The best setups are 720p using Blu-ray DVD's and 480p using SDDVD's with component cables. The HDMI cable although works, does have some static every so often. The SDDVD's upscaled to 1080p look out of focus. They look much better, sharper, played at 480p with component cable.

So the bottom line, there is a noticable difference playing Blu ray at 720p vs SDDVD at 420p using component cable. Then very little difference playing Blu ray between 720p and 1080p at least with a 1280x720 digital projector using HDMI cable.

So I am about as good as I can get with my present system.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-14-2007, 11:18 PM:
 
Not sure why there'd be static in the HDMI connection, but I'd blame Samsung. Otherwise I'd recommend hooking it up via HDMI and setting the output resolution of the player to 720p. Running in the native resolution of the display is always best and turns off any internal scalers.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-15-2007, 02:01 AM:
 
Larry, what I am trying to say is that 1080 will NEVER display to that format's potential on that projector because it is being forced to downscale the image and your comment was just silly because even 800x600 data projectors can display 1080i, but that doesn't mean they won't be scaled and look like Joe's unwiped ass. Now do you see my point?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-15-2007, 04:26 AM:
 
If he doesn't, I will post a picture.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-15-2007, 08:30 AM:
 
It seems to me the component connection looks the best and yes Brad I do get your point. When I started into this digital, all I wanted to do is have a matched set. That is, have the connections and setting match the equipment I have. No more or no less and that has been done.

In the future I may upgrade but in the meantime, I need to focus all my money on a brand new black 2008 Corvette that has my name on it.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-15-2007, 04:23 PM:
 
Corvette.... You're not going for the Aston Martin DBS.... You won't realize the full potential of a wheeled vehicle from the corvair er I mean corvette....
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-15-2007, 04:49 PM:
 
Yea I know. You love them or hate them. Corvette that is. Anyway I returned that $25 HDMI cable to Wal-mart and dropped by the video store to pick up a few more Blu ray rentals for $4 each. I am going to see how those go.

Then I notice that I think I like the HD-DVD selection better. Since now I know I only need a 720 p Player, the Toshiba A3 for $249 at Curcuit City may really be my best bet. I noticed at Micro Center Computers, they are selling 12 ft Optical Cables for $24.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-15-2007, 05:20 PM:
 

quote: Larry Myers

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Then I notice that I think I like the HD-DVD selection better.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen was the last to post

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Blew Ray

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HD-DVD
 

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Posted by Charles Caron (Member # 3247) on 12-16-2007, 04:59 PM:
 
You guys need to get more serious about your choice of automobiles.... buggati veyron
You'd have to win the lottery... twice
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-16-2007, 06:52 PM:
 
Charles.... I'd still take the DBS over the Bugatti.... I've always been an Aston Martin fan and always will be.

BTW are any of those surround speakers working in that complex at all?

Mark
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-17-2007, 09:21 AM:
 
How did this go from Blu-ray and HD-DVD to cars??
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 12-17-2007, 11:22 AM:
 
Joe, of course the PS3 is the best BLU-RAY player on the planet!! I can tell you if I didn't have the PS3 I would still be using my Pioneer DVD Recorder. Which I still do when I watch regular DVDs.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-17-2007, 01:05 PM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

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How did this go from Blu-ray and HD-DVD to cars??

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• There are two HD disc formats, HD DVD and Blu-ray.
• The formats are capable of equivalent audio and video performance, which eclipse SD DVD in both respects (although audio differences can be slight).
• Each format has exclusive movie studios which do not produce on the other format
• All HD DVD players can connect to the Internet for firmware updates and online-enabled features. Some, but not all, Blu-ray players have the former ability, but no Blu-ray discs currently utilize the latter yet.
• Blu-ray players have varying feature-sets in regards to core functionality. Some have ethernet jacks, some do not. Some are capable of supporting Profile 1.1 / Bonus View, which provides for more internal memory and secondary video decoder support, but many do not at this time. Profile 2.0, which dictates more internal memory than 1.1 and online-connectivity, is not supported by any Blu-ray players at this time, but no discs utilize 2.0 features so far.
• All Blu-ray players support 1080p, at either 24, 30, and/or 60 fps.
• HD DVD players have similar core functionality, but differ on analog audio outputs and 1080p capability.
• All standalone HD DVD players are made by Toshiba or using Toshiba's platform. Venturer, RCA, and other manufacturers appear to be using Toshiba's design.
• Microsoft makes an add-on drive for the Xbox 360 that provides HD DVD support for the gaming system.
• Many manufacturers have released stand-alone Blu-ray players.
• Sony's PlayStation 3 game system supports Blu-ray playback. It represents 2.5 million of the 2.7 million Blu-ray capable players so far.
• Blu-ray software titles (totals since inception) have outsold HD DVD titles approximately 67% to 33%
• Total sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD software combined are very very small in comparison to DVD.
• Total sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD hardware combined are very small in comparison (10%) to DVD.

quote: Scott Jentsch

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There are two HD disc formats, HD DVD and Blu-ray.

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quote: Larry Myers

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The new 2008 436 HP version at $44,000 will do 190MPH is really not good enough for some people so the $70,000 505 HP version that will do 195mph might be. It's a choice that has to be made.

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quote:

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What the chart shows is that, for a 50-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p start to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 14.6 feet and become fully apparent at 9.8 feet. For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 9.8 feet and become full apparent at 6.5 feet.

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In my situation, my viewing distance is 9-12' from a 50" diagonal display. If one is to believe the assertions of the author above, that is (just at the limit or) too far away for a person with 20/20 vision to resolve the detail of a 1080p display.

There is also the pragmatic issue of cost. When I bought my 50" DLP Samsung in April, going to 1080p would have cost an extra $400 - $600, which represented a 40-60% premium over the 720p unit I purchased.

That difference was too great (and still is) for what is a secondary display in my home. If I'm going to spend some money on 1080p it will be on replacing my 720p Sony front projector in my home theater.

But even in the home theater, on a 99" wide screen (113" diagonal), I'm very happy with HD DVD projected at 720p. Could it be better? Yes, I realize that it could be, and I'm looking forward to the day when I can make that upgrade.

But I'm certainly not unhappy with the quality of the image that is being projected right now. In most situations, a 720p image is going to be very high quality and anyone with such a display should not feel like they are missing the boat when it comes to HD quality.

Anyone looking to purchase a display should see the difference between 720p and 1080p for themselves at the viewing distance they'll be using and the screen size they're looking to buy, and decide for themselves if they can see the difference and how much they would have to pay for that difference.

There's a danger in getting too wrapped up in the specs and not using real-world observations to temper the numbers and the marketing campaigns of the manufacturers who really want us to spend that extra money on "True 1080p" HD.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-18-2007, 11:10 AM:
 
The functions of the HDTV monitor must also be considered.

If all you're doing with it is just watching movies and TV broadcasts, then 720p may indeed be good enough for some people. It isn't for me. I would much rather have my own eye sight and viewing distance be a moving target of limiting factors rather than have a lower limit built into the hardware itself.

I also intend to use the HDTV I buy for more than just entertainment purposes. It will also pull double duty as a really large computer monitor.

The user interfaces in any operating system are fixed in resolution. Applications like Adobe Photoshop and After Effects demand high resolution displays. The various palettes, tool bars, docking panels and more take up a lot of pixel real estate. In a 1280 X 720 desktop too much of your work would be getting covered up by all the aspects of the application's interface. A 1920 X 1080 desktop would at least give you much more work space to leave more tool bars and such displayed yet not have that stuff cover up your work.

Console-based gaming and computer-based gaming can be affected by some of the same issues. If your opponent has his display set to the equivalent of 720p and yours is set at the equivalent of 1080p you're going to have a clear advantage in things like sniping.

Years ago when I was into playing shooters like Quake2, I'd have my game set up at 1600 X 1200 on my 21" monitor while others I knew played at settings of only 800 X 600 or 1024 X 768. I'd be standing out in the open pegging them with the rail gun and they couldn't even see me in the distance. It was really pretty funny.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-18-2007, 03:05 PM:
 
My only concern for my project is Video Projection on a 3 by 7.5 ft slightly curved screen viewed at 10 ft. At least for my purpose, a $1200 Panasonic PT-AX100U video projector hooked up to a $150 800 watt Sony 5.1 sound system and a $300 Blu-ray player running 720p seems to do the trick. The Sony sound system is connected to some good Altec's so the sound is really not all that bad.

If I was running a laptop I am sure I would do this differently.

Since I purchased a 12 ft optical sound cable, I am going to try an HD DVD unit shortly. Maybe I will keep both or maybe I will take one back. Time will tell.
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-19-2007, 09:38 PM:
 
I just purchased a Tosheba A3 HD DVD player at Curcuit City for $235. I got it hooked up with the 12 ft optical cable and it seems to play great. I also found out the optical hookup on the Samsung 1400 Blu-ray is not working. I like the controls on the Tosheba better anyway.

I think I am going to return the Samsung Blu ray within the next 48 hours.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-20-2007, 02:18 AM:
 
(Hmmm..the Bugatti Veyron 16-4...can you see yourself buzzing up to your girlfriend's house in this thing .. let alone coming home with this after trading in your LR to impress your wife?)



(Can you see this quad turbocharged, 1001bhp,W16 motor that powers that expensive beast above making a 'Vette' L-88 block look like a motor in mom's 1982 Chevy Impala?)



-Monte
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-20-2007, 10:02 AM:
 
If you're going to be using a display as a computer monitor, then by all means, it should be as high a resolution as possible. I've never tried to hook up my laptop to either display, but 1280x720 isn't much of a usable desktop for anything serious.

I've never been that impressed with the so-called supercars -- being more of a musclecar person myself. I like a little throaty rumble to my exhaust, not a high-pitched whine like so many of the exotics produce.

My boss had a 1970 Boss 302 Mustang that he took on the track that would produce a growl so fierce, it would make a Ferrari wet its oil pan!

Speaking of Chevy Impala's... the fastest I've ever gone on the open road was in a 1975 Chevy Impala 4-door I had in high school. It had a 120mph speedometer, and I buried the needle so far (it had the old-style horizontal speedometer), I think it took a mile of coasting before I saw it again! I would estimate that I was doing about 140mph if the speedo was linear and anywhere near accurate at the top end.

I've never taken my Mustang over 100mph in the 12 years I've had it. I must really be getting old...
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-20-2007, 11:35 AM:
 
The Samsung 1400 went back to Circuit City this morning and no questions asked. Actually they didn't even what to know why I was bring it back.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-20-2007, 05:38 PM:
 
Larry... Sams Club... Blew Ray $277.00 with 5 free disks. Still no where near my limit of $99.00 yet.

Mark
 

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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 12-20-2007, 09:55 PM:
 
Circut City is now selling the Sony 300 Blu ray for $269 with 5 free disc. Now it seems that both the HD and Blu Ray machines can be had for less then the cost of a combo machine. I need to get my self down to Big Lots and purchase a small stand so I can have a bank of DVD players.

The Toshiba HD A3 is working great at 720p and I like the controls located on the machine. With the Samsung, you must use the hand controller to operate the machine. No controls are on the machine itself. I just might purchase the Sony Blu-ray after Christmas.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 12-20-2007, 10:37 PM:
 
Mark is that the standard 5 free mail in deal or 5 free discs in the store?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2007, 07:37 AM:
 
Five free via mail in. It took 4 months to get my 5 free HDDVD disks!!

Mark
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-21-2007, 03:40 PM:
 
I just received my HP5 disk. I've never seen so many languages on one disk...

English PCM
English 5.1 DD
French (Parisian) 5.1 DD
French (Quebec) 5.1 DD
Spanish 5.1 DD
Japanese 5.1 DD
Danish 5.1 DD
Dutch 5.1 DD
German 5.1 DD
Italian 5.1 DD
Swedish 5.1 DD
Flemish 5.1 DD
Catalan 5.1 DD

And the subtitles are equally impressive:
English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, German, Italian, Norwegian, Swedish & Catalan.

There may be more impressive disks out there, but this is the most impressive one I have seen.

Even though Blu-ray disks cost more to manufacture, I wonder how much studios will be saving by being able to have one single inventory physical disk that can be played anywhere in any language. (Setting aside the region encoding problem.)

Is it possible to set up multiple menus in different languages and have the player automatically play the correct one?
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 12-22-2007, 07:14 AM:
 
Regular DVDs can have menus in different languages- in the player's Setup menu, there should be an option that lets you select the disc's menu language (not the player's onscreen display language.) On Universal titles the FBI warning displays in French or Spanish if you change the menu language, and a number of Sony and Warner discs have menus in French, Spanish, and/or Japanese. A lot of their 'catalog' titles are multi-region as well, usually regions 1, 3 and 4- if you have a player that is region-switchable, you get a different copyright warning relevant to the country it thinks you're in.

Interesting the Blew-Ray Harry Potter disc has that many languages on it, I have the HD-DVD combo disc (can only play the regular DVD side right now) and it just has Spanish and Canadian French. I saw the new Blade Runner disc has both Quebec and Parisian French on it, that would be kind of interesting to compare. I've learned a bit of Canadian French from the North American DVDs that include it.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-22-2007, 10:54 AM:
 

quote:

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It took 4 months to get my 5 free HDDVD disks!!

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Jeez, by that time there could be another three or four new formats!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2007, 11:15 AM:
 
Yep! If they did make two or three more formats you guys could go on here indefinately while I enjoy watching mine whilst eating a great steak that I had just cooked out on the grill.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 12-22-2007, 12:37 PM:
 
Great, now while enjoying your latest HD dvd, you'll get clogged arteries and possibly cancerous carcinogens from the grill on your steak...
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2007, 12:52 PM:
 

quote: Mike Heenan

---

Great, now while enjoying your latest HD dvd, you'll get clogged arteries and possibly cancerous carcinogens from the grill on your steak...

---

Mike,

I'm flattered that you worry so for me. I actually eat more fish and greens than I do steak... ok throw in some crinkle cut fries now and then. But weather I eat steak or fish at least I'm enjoying my HD-DVD player and not being a babble head here like most of the others are.
Next time I'm down Arizona way I'll buy you a steak at your favorite restaurant !!
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-22-2007, 04:17 PM:
 

quote: Larry Myers

---

With the Samsung, you must use the hand controller to operate the machine. No controls are on the machine itself.

---

quote:

---

LOS ANGELES, Aug. 20 -- Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc. (NYSE: VIA and VIA.B) and DreamWorks Animation SKG (NYSE: DWA), each announced today that they will exclusively support the next-generation HD DVD format on a worldwide basis. The exclusive HD DVD commitment will include all movies distributed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films, as well as movies from DreamWorks Animation, which are distributed exclusively by Paramount Home Entertainment.

The companies each said that the decision to distribute exclusively in the HD DVD format resulted from an extensive evaluation of current market offerings, which confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology and lower manufacturing costs. Paramount Home Entertainment will launch its exclusive HD DVD program with the release of the blockbuster comedy hit "Blades of Glory" on August 28th and follow with two of the biggest grossing movies of the year "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third". These three titles alone represent more than $1.5 billion in box office ticket sales worldwide.

"The combination of Paramount and DreamWorks Animation brings a critical mass of current box office hits to consumers with a line-up of live action and animated films that are perfect for HD DVD," stated Brad Grey, Chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures, which is currently the leading studio in domestic box office. "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater, and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount."

"We decided to release "Shrek the Third" and other DreamWorks Animation titles exclusively on HD DVD because we believe it is the best format to bring high quality home entertainment to a key segment of our audience -- families," stated DreamWorks Animation CEO, Jeffrey Katzenberg. "We believe the combination of this year's low-priced HD DVD players and the commitment to release a significant number of hit titles in the fall makes HD DVD the best way to view movies at home."

With the rapid increase of HD TV screens in households, and audiences wanting to enjoy the total entertainment experience, HD DVD has emerged as the most affordable way for consumers to watch their movies in high definition. In addition to pristine quality, HD DVD also offers consumers the chance to personalize the movie-watching experience, to interact with their movies and even to connect with a community of other fans.

Paramount Home Entertainment will issue new releases day and date as well as catalog titles exclusively on HD DVD. Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format.

---

quote: Jason Black

---

The one thing I *wish* they would do is eliminate trailers at the beginning of DVD's.

---

Thats what the "Next" button on your remote is for!

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2007, 07:20 PM:
 
I don't know how many other DVD players can do this, but the Denon DN-V210 and DN-V310 can skip all of the warnings/intro stuff and even the main menu and go straight to the movie. They are not HD players but regular SD players. Perhaps it is their pro status that allows this but it has been a nice feature in theatrical environments.

Steve
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-24-2007, 09:05 PM:
 
I have used the Denon in two recent installs and have one racked for rental....great units
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-25-2007, 12:42 AM:
 
Mark:
Many DVD's do not allow for 'jumping' the trailers. One, for example, is Smokin Aces, which i just watched.

I know that out of the 300 or so DVD's we have, many of them do not allow you to jump forward, unless it's the DVD player, which is a Toshiba unit with HDMI connection. Not sure of the model number, but it's only a year old...
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-25-2007, 01:09 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Ha! You guys will be debating this stupid stuff till hell freezes over while I'm in the middle of grilling some nice Salmon filets while a fresh Blew Ray copy of "Christmas Vacation" awaits my viewing.

---

quote: Bobby H

---

Right now HD just means being able to see new movies as shitty as they are in even more shitty clarity.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Well Bobby, then it certainly is interesting that you are so concerned about what format does what....

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Multiple anything Bobby is what keeps the economy goin round and round. Dual format units don't solve a thing and they will more than likely leave alot to be desired... and for a pretty high price tag too.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Individual units for each format is how the pros go about things and if you want optimum performance from each format thats the best route to get you there.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

The first DVD players were missing crucial features, like dual layer playback capability or support of DTS output. The problems with early HD-disc players are just another occurrence of a common trend. Being an early adopter is a risky, expensive game.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

That kind of thing might be fine for an audio/video post production suite. Such a thing is not practical for consumer electronics.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

There's at least several programmable DSP chips in existence that can decode every audio and video compression format supported by both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. They do it all on just one chip.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

One chip can't do it all near as good as purpose designed chips can pull it off.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

That's like saying my computer can't resize photos in Photoshop as well because it can also edit movies with the same chipset.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

The big systems are many times job specific so they can run very efficiently. The average Apple or PC is actually very inefficient at handling lots of data.

---

quote: Bruce Hansen

---

I was thinking about the BETA-VHS "war" this morning. What won the war for VHS was that their cassette was larger, could hold more tape, and have a longer record time.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

This is one point where the primitave aspects of Blew Ray show up.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

150mbs DSL line

---

150mbps? Maybe you mean 1.5mbps.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2007, 01:04 PM:
 
No Joe... The BDP-S300 is made by Sony! Frank Du Boy is the one with the Sammy song player.

Yes I meant 150mbps.... .

Mark
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-28-2007, 03:52 PM:
 
If it's taking Toshiba's "live update" feature over 45 minutes to feed data through a connection with an alleged 150 million bit per second data rate, then that Toshiba update program must be really shitty. At that rate, it would take many hours for the Toshiba thingie to work at average DSL speeds.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-28-2007, 03:58 PM:
 
I believe the Toshiba firmware update takes that long from a local disc, as well. I expect it is because the EEPROM or flash or whatever they're using is very slow. That seems a reasonable compromise.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2007, 04:06 PM:
 
I guess the DSL speed has nothing to do with the actual load time... that time is controled by the destination device... but typically my speed here is around 150mbps. The last Toshiba firmware load consisted of 44 files... the readout counts through them as they are being loaded. Also, stopping the Toshiba in the middle of an upgrade doesn't kill it which is a pretty good feature. It obviously doesn't load in the new firmware untill its all been downloaded and then verified. With the Sony the inconvenience of having to burn a disk from an ISO is pretty silly in this day and age.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-28-2007, 05:34 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

typically my speed here is around 150mbps.

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quote: Joe Redifer

---

DSL sucks. It is gawdawful. Cable is much better, but I don't think any standard consumer is getting 150mbps from it.

---

That claim is only relative to a customer's specific location.

If you want cable modem service in my town, you're stuck with Lawton Cablevision. It is SHIT. The security standards on it are a joke as well (I'd certainly want to be using a Mac if I had it connected to their service).

I have AT&T's DSL service and have been subscribing to it since 1999. My speeds back in 1999 were mere 384kb/s downstream and 128kb/s upstream. Now I get 3 million bit per second service for about $25 a month. I'm contemplating their "DSL Ultra" service that delivers 6 Mb/s service for a few dollars more. Cable service in my town is not able to match that, and sure as hell will not do that at all in terms of price.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2007, 11:11 PM:
 
I wish I could get the higher speed DSL but I'm too far from the main switch... the farther you are the slower it gets... mine is typically 150 kbps.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-31-2007, 11:25 PM:
 
We all know that MPEG2 sucks ass. But which is the better codec between the following two choices?

MPEG4 AVC
or
VC1

The SpiderMan 3 Blu-Ray disc that came free (thank science) with my PS3 uses the MPEG4 AVC codec and it was probably the sharpest image I have ever seen on my TV (direct HDMI connection). The movie still sucked balls, though. I haven't seen any VC1 discs yet, but I hear VC1 is da bomb.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-01-2008, 01:53 AM:
 
VC-1 better be "da bomb" to give HD-DVD any hope for long term survival. For dual layer discs a giant 20GB deficit between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is a very serious problem...especially when no existing HD-DVD players can support those 51GB triple layer discs.

Paramount/Dreamworks had such a stupidly needless misfire with that recent Jack Ryan box set of HD-DVD discs. Packaged originally for Blu-Ray with all those extras. But with all the extras dumped because they couldn't fit on HD-DVD. Yeah. Really really great.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2008, 11:17 AM:
 
I wish someone would fix the damn bootup times on these things. When I walk up to a player that's off, and push the eject button, there is no reason on planet Earth why I should have to wait 90 seconds for the tray to open. It should just open immediately.

I was given Disney's Rat movie and Harry Potter 5 for Christmas, and I thought it was interesting that it takes about five full minutes to get to the movie with the Disney movie (and that's if you skip and hop as quickly as you possibly can through the various menus and screens and warnings and crap) and Harry comes up and starts the movie almost instantly. No menus, and very quick FBI warning screens.

Thanks, Warner Brothers!

Disney, nice movie with a beautiful picture and sound, but speed wise you need to get your act together.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-02-2008, 12:27 PM:
 
Yeah, WB seems to have their act together with BR/HD authoring. I just tried a few other discs over the weekend (casino royale, Hairspray) and both of those didn't start up at the movie but pretty much started up normally and not too much slower than a normal SD dvd, but I can't figure out why Disney's discs take forever, is this sort of a "cache" thing with the player?
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-02-2008, 02:14 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

---

We all know that MPEG2 sucks ass. But which is the better codec between the following two choices?

MPEG4 AVC
or
VC1

---

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

I was given Disney's Rat movie and Harry Potter 5 for Christmas, and I thought it was interesting that it takes about five full minutes to get to the movie with the Disney movie (and that's if you skip and hop as quickly as you possibly can through the various menus and screens and warnings and crap) and Harry comes up and starts the movie almost instantly.

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quote: Steve Guttag

---

Hey....Denon has just offered their new Reference Blu-Ray DVD players...not quite Mark's $99.00 price though

Denon DVD-3800BDCI

This has not knocked the old DVD-Referece player out but is surely the shape of things to come.

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

Yeah, WB seems to have their act together with BR/HD authoring.

---

quote: Mike Heenan

---

I can't figure out why Disney's discs take forever, is this sort of a "cache" thing with the player?

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Legally you are allowed a backup copy of what ever you purchase....

---

You are absolutely correct, Mark. But nevertheless, the MPAA still keeps screaming that it is illegal, illegal, EEE EFFIN LEGAL, and anyone doing it should have their fingernails pulled out. They also argued in court that no one needs a "protection" copy (which the copyright law STILL says it legal) because DVDs unlike tape, they said, are "indistructable."

The only reason THAT exception in the law still stands is because when the MPAA was bribing congressmen to make it a crime punishable by life in prison to make the single protection copy, they kept plying the pertinent polititians with booz and hookers....who knew they got the booz right, but that they should have been sending them hustlers?!

[ 01-03-2008, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]
 

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Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 01-03-2008, 05:21 PM:
 
Disney has been playing games with how they put together their DVDs so that they are very hard to make a copy of. I wounder if they are playing the same sort of games with BDs for the same reason, and in the process making it hard for the players to play the discs as well.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-03-2008, 06:02 PM:
 
So it's actually taking MINUTES for a hi-def DVD to start playing the movie? That's just unrealistic. That was one great thing about VHS....stick tape in, hit fast forward through the commercials, be watching flick in 10 seconds.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-03-2008, 06:22 PM:
 
It all depends on the model of the deck and disc. HD-DVD or Blu-ray some load faster then others. There is not that much pre-show crap on the heads of these discs. There is much more on the SD versions of the movie.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-03-2008, 10:59 PM:
 
This is strictly a Blue Ray problem... not a problem with the HD-DVD format. All the HD players regardless of brand or type work a little slower than most because they run on Linux... Linux is slow to load! The problem we're talking about is the pre-caching thing going on with some Blew Ray disks, mainly Disney. HD-DVD does not do the caching routine.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-04-2008, 12:04 AM:
 
Cacheing is really not a great idea for movies. The only possible benefit I could see would be to cache 5 seconds or so of video that can be played back at the layer break point for slow-switching machines. Even this would be barely necessary and should only take 5 seconds (or less) to cache.
 

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Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 01-04-2008, 02:08 AM:
 
Mark, I must disagree with you. This issue of slow load times is not exclusive to Blu-ray. My HD-DVD player is the Xbox360 add-on unit. When I loaded up some dumb damn Universal title (Knocked Up - or maybe "Chuck & Larry"), it seemed like the little "Loading" graphic was on screen for 5 minutes. I realize that the XBOX interface is not typical, but it's still a delay that I never have to put up with on my LaserDisc player.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-04-2008, 07:58 AM:
 
I'm definately not into X-Box and the HD-DVD is just an add on... its not a true HD-DVD player. Just something of an afterthought for the box... Its obvious your game machine is just playing games with you. Neither of my Toshiba HD-DVD players exhibit that problem.

Mark
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-04-2008, 09:20 AM:
 
Joe, I could never figure out why we had to deal with the layer change delay on regular DVDs. Seems pretty stupid to me.

If we're going to cache the movie, why not do it while displaying the FBI logo that we're all used to seeing. It's usually a still frame anyway. Fire that frame up, load the first ten seconds of the movie, then off we go.

It seems to me they could solve the slow load problems pretty easily if they just got a little more creative.
 

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Posted by Robert W. Jones (Member # 4228) on 01-04-2008, 01:29 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

typically my speed here is around 150mbps

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

I'm definately not into X-Box and the HD-DVD is just an add on... its not a true HD-DVD player. Just something of an afterthought for the box... Its obvious your game machine is just playing games with you. Neither of my Toshiba HD-DVD players exhibit that problem.

---

quote:

---

NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES2008-01-04 20:22:49 GMT (Reuters) (Reuters) — Time Warner's Warner Bros. studio plans to announce it will release next-generation DVDs on Sony Corp's Blu-ray format exclusively, two sources familiar with the plans said Friday, dealing a big blow to Toshiba's HD DVD format.

Warner Bros., Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs representing about 18 to 20% of sales in the United States, had been one of the few studios that backed both formats.

News Corp's 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney, and Lions Gate Entertainment are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom's Paramount studios and General Electric's NBC Universal, owned by General Electric Co and France's Vivendi, release movies in HD DVD format.

An announcement is expected shortly, the sources said.

---

quote:

---

WARNER BROS. ENTERTAINMENT TO RELEASE ITS HIGH-DEFINITION DVD TITLES EXCLUSIVELY IN THE BLU-RAY DISC FORMAT BEGINNING LATER THIS YEAR

Decision Made in Response to Strong Consumer Preference for Format

(January 4, 2008 - Burbank, CA) - In response to consumer demand, Warner Bros. Entertainment will release its high-definition DVD titles exclusively in the Blu-ray disc format beginning later this year, it was announced today by Barry Meyer, Chairman & CEO, Warner Bros. and Kevin Tsujihara, President, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group.

"Warner Bros.' move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want," said Meyer. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

Warner Home Video will continue to release its titles in standard DVD format and Blu-ray. After a short window following their standard DVD and Blu-ray releases, all new titles will continue to be released in HD DVD until the end of May 2008.

"Warner Bros. has produced in both high-definition formats in an effort to provide consumer choice, foster mainstream adoption and drive down hardware prices," said Jeff Bewkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Time Warner Inc., the parent company of Warner Bros. Entertainment. "Today's decision by Warner Bros. to distribute in a single format comes at the right time and is the best decision both for consumers and Time Warner."

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," said Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."

# # #

---

quote: Ron Funderburg

---

Sure, these problems could be Warner's programmers, and not a format issue, but Warner is going for as similar an experience on both, and it clearly can't do everything on Blu-ray that it can on HD DVD.

---

quote:

---

You would have to be disagreeing with the writer of the article and not me as I just read it and then copied and pasted it. I have watched the side by side comparison and to me HD looks better! One would think that the development teams started at the same so maybe it is just one development team is better or maybe one system is easier to work with! I'm not hear to rain on anyones parade they can like whichever they want!

---

quote: Ron Funderburg

---

Never mind that the HD DVD has an entire online component that the Blu-ray can't yet implement, with features such as mobile downloads and user-organized live screenings.

---

quote: Ron Funderburg

---

Never mind that you could watch the entire HD DVD with pop-up actor-commentary windows on screen—if Warner had implemented this in the Harry Potter Blu-ray, it would have been compatible with exactly one currently shipping Blu-ray player.

---

quote: Ron Funderburg

---

Every so often an icon appears in the top left corner of the screen [of the HD DVD version], indicating a behind-the-scenes featurette about that particular scene. On the HD DVD, you click it, watch what you want to, then click Enter again to return to the point you left off in the main movie.

---

quote: Blaine Young

---

With that in mind and the 28mb/s video limit of HD-DVD, they may well increase the bit budget to better take advantage of BD's 40mb/s ceiling on video batrate, and offering HD resolution audio as well - how many of us would like to watch (insert your favorite WB feature) with a DTS-HD Master Audio track?

---

quote: Ron Funderburg

---

Okay here is an excerpt from an online article that I read today. I have only included the last few paragraphs but earlier in the article it stated that HD-DVD's are able to have software updates and that no Blue-Ray on the market for sale now will be able to play the new disk released when they upgrade the Blue-Ray in a year or so.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

The Blew Ray menu system appears to have been designed by some cave men.

---

quote: Marketwatch

---

Commentary: Warner Bros. a boost for Blu-ray, but not a clear victory

---

quote: Marketwatch

---

But despite the Warner score, there is still not a clear winner in the contest, which appears to be intensifying. The next couple of weeks may bring some interesting developments. Rumors are that Microsoft Corp. will use its high-profile opening keynote at CES to announce that its Xbox 360 will come with a built-in HD-DVD player.

---

Great! Yet another disc drive we can look forward to roasting itself in the fucked up chassis known as X-Box 360.

While X-Box 360 has a great deal of impressive game titles, the actual hardware of that gaming console is a rotten, stinking piece of fetid shit.

Customer complaints about the piss poor product design of X-Box 360 are mounting. I personally know three people, all coworkers of mine, who have had nothing but pure hell with their X-Box 360 consoles over the last year. Hard disc failures. The dreaded "red ring of death" error. Optical drive failures. On and on and f#@&*$g on. Our chief neon tube bending artist has sent in his X-Box 360 three times! And now Microsoft wants to cram a HD-DVD player within the chassis itself to crank up the heat even more?


Not that Playstation3 is without problems. A fellow I know at the local Hasting Music and Video store told me about disturbing problems with PS3 and overheating problems.

Overall this has given me an additional reason to be very thankful I avoided buying any gaming console in recent years. The first X-Box system was a big, hulking black and green thing, but it could at least dissipate heat. These new consoles look cool, but get so hot you could fry an egg on them.

Well, I guess I'm not hearing those complaints about the Nintendo Wii -a more modest device specifically designed only for playing games.

Anyway, CBS Marketwatch can keep holding onto hope for HD-DVD via some loony X-Box360 tie-in that has nothing to do with movies. Microsoft is really only fighting to keep the format war going, keep things confused and give enough time to get their HDi movie downloading format cemented. Good luck on that, Microsoft! You've got your head too far up your butt chasing Google on the Internet advertising game to pay attention to things like the "core market" of making an operating system that ranks a little better than an embarrassment (Vista). How the hell does Microsoft expect to corner the video on demand movie downloading market when they can't even get the basics of a new operating system done correctly? I can't help but wonder if they may actually have some sort of strange, secret deal with Apple over all the retardation laid bare to witness.
 

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Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 01-05-2008, 01:03 AM:
 
I was watching "Knocked Up" on my XBOX the other day and that fucking icon was on the ENTIRE FILM. Sometimes it would get up and dance around a little trying to draw attention to itself. How do I turn that fucking thing off? I've hated that superimposed icon and advert shit since they started it on Network Television. Now every fucking show on the planet has this shit dancing around at the bottom of the screen, ruining my enjoyment of the latest adventures of "Chuck".

I'd like to find out who thought up this damn stuff and beat them over the head with an Apogee projector head.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-05-2008, 01:13 AM:
 
Being a graphic artist, I'd still like to take my anger out on the TV and video logo spammers. If I didn't have to worry about going to prison for a long time over it, I'd shoot a couple .40 S&W FMJ "ball ammo" rounds into the butt cheeks of the marketing guys responsible for this madness. Hell. Let's make it one .357 Sig JHP round to the forehead!


Which dead comedian was it that said, "hey if you work in advertising, just kill yourself. No. I'm not joking. Seriously. go home and kill yourself?"
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 01-05-2008, 01:36 AM:
 
I have no problems what so ever with my PS3 overheating. I've had it on for 24 hours straight and it wasn't even hot to the touch. I don't have any external coolers or fans on it, just the way it came out of the box.

Now back to Blue-Ray HD war...another blow to the HD community has been struck.

Comingsoon.net

quote:

---

The HD DVD Promotion Group has made two announcements following Warner Bros.' decision to go Blu-ray Disc exclusive for High Definition titles (and New Line is going Blu-ray only as well with WB):

The companies of the HD DVD Promotion Group today issued a statement in response to the decision by Warner Home Video to exclusively back the Blu-ray format:

"While Warner's decision is a setback for HD DVD, the consumer has benefited from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability -- a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format. We believe widespread adoption of a next generation format will ultimately be determined by the consumer."

If you ask us, the HD DVD camp is reaching here. We don't think they'll be able to recover from losing Warner Bros. Entertainment as well. With Blu-ray Disc now gaining a 70% share of the market compared to HD DVD's 30%, we wouldn't be surprised if announcements from Paramount/DreamWorks and Universal (the only two studios on HD DVD's side) will come sometime down the road saying that they will either go Blu-ray exclusive or release in both formats.

The HD DVD Promotion Group was planning a big press conference on sunday at the Consumer Electronics Association (CES) in Las Vegas, but that has been cancelled now:

Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.

We'll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.

---