Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New HOW THE WEST WAS WON on DVD is great

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-11-2008, 03:38 PM:

I am glad I had the opportunity to see all of the three strip travelogue Cinerama films including WINDJAMMER which was actually filmed in Cinemiracle but presented in Cinerama at the long defunct Princess Theatre in downtown Honolulu in the fifties. The Princess was a very majestic theatre with a very high ceiling and a huge lobby with sitting capacity of over a thousand in a sloped stadium configuration. The theatre closed long before MGM produced and released the first two non travelogue films, THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM and HOW THE WEST WAS WON. In order to show these films, Consolidated Theatres which was locally owned at the time had gutted their neighborhood theatre, the Pawaa and re constructed and refurbished it with three strip projection Cinerama. The theatre was renamed "Cinerama" and it was a beautiful house The first film about the Grimm brothers was entertaining in great part due to the fact that it was in three strip Cinerama but the film itself was not very good. The 2nd film, HOW THE WEST WAS WON however was awesome! I took my mother and my father to see it and up until this day, I still remember how wonderful the film was in Cinerama. I had planned to see it again before it had ended it's Hawaiian road show engagement but did not and I still regret it today. I did get to see HOW THE WEST WAS WON again almost a year later in 35mm and it was dreadful and so was the first DVD that was struck from that format.

After wishing for a restored version on DVD preserving the full scope of the original three strip image, it had finally became a reality this week when Warner Brothers Home Video released HOW THE WEST WAS WON on both DVD and Blue Ray with restored picture and color as well as it's full three strip projection aspect ratio. The movie is presented on two discs on DVD and the wonderful documentary, CINERAMA ADVENTURE about the Cinerama process on a 3rd disc which was produced by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Science. The documentary featured a lot of scenes from most of the Cinerama films in Smilebox, a video recreation of the movies presented on the curved screen. The process is very impressive and I like it! HOW THE WEST WAS WON is in letterbox only on DVD but the entire film is in Smilebox on the Blue Ray version. Because I do not have a Blue Ray player yet, I bought the Ultimate DVD box set but I also purchased it on Blue Ray to enjoy it's Cinerama recreation when buy a player very soon. My brother has a player and a Sony 1080i big screen HDTV set and I will watch the movie in Smilebox with his family this weekend. Beside the movie retaining it's full Cinerama three strip aspect ratio, the horizontal lines on the screen due to the multiple projection method has been removed and this makes the film more enjoyable to watch on a home theatre screen.

-Claude

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-11-2008, 05:33 PM:

Claude,
The Actual Cinemiracle projection process also got rid of the annoying join lines by bouncing the left and right panel images off mirrors. The light fell off the edge of the mirror creating an almost invisible join area on screen. In addition Cinemiracle also lowered the density at the edges of the images where the images joined so as not to get a double light level stripe at the join either. Sad that Cinerama sacked the better of the two projection systems!

There was a guy that worked for us for a long time whose father was head of projection at Cinemiracle.

Mark

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-11-2008, 05:42 PM:

Mark,

I believe the first and only film in Cinemiracle, WINDJAMMER had it's world premier at the Gauman's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood on April 8, 1958 Theatre and played there for 36 weeks. In addition to seeing the movie at the Princess in Cinerama , I recall seeing again years later at the Queen Theatre here in Honolulu in 70mm. Come to think of it, I did not recall seeing any distracting horizontal lines on the print.

-Claude

Posted by Doug Willming (Member # 728) on 09-12-2008, 12:20 PM:

I agree, this is the type of film Blu-Ray was made for - incredible picture, looks like it was shot yesterday. Amazing job of cleaning it up and softening the join lines. This film has been on DVD for some time in a horrible non-anamorphic version; watching this is like seeing the film for the first time. The SmileBox effect is really cool at replicating the "fish-eye" distortion curvature of a Cinerama screen, although you need a big TV or projection unit to really appreciate it. As for the film itself, yes, it's corny in spots, but there is some incredible spectacle and production value that just isn't done anymore - I know there are many of you out there more interested in seeing Ironman 2, but HTWWW is a must-see as a part of movie history. The Cinerama documentary and commentary on the film are very interesting as well.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-14-2008, 03:31 AM:

There is a pretty interesting review of How the West Was Won at the DVD Beaver web site, complete with screen shots of both the standard letterbox and smilebox versions of the show. The review can be found here.

I was skeptical of how the smilebox version could play. But after looking at the screen shots, it seems like the smilebox version could actually be pretty enjoyable to watch.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-14-2008, 02:40 PM:

I had the opportunity to go to my brother's house last night and watched the Blue Ray Smile Box version of HOW THE WEST WAS WON on his 52 inch 1080p set and what I saw was just awesome! Having seen the movie in three strip Cinerama in 1962, what I saw was the next best thing. We watched the movie in complete darkeness and it looked like we were actually seeing it on a curved screen because all that was visible was only the picture.

-Claude

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 09-14-2008, 04:31 PM:

You may find this link interesting: 'Click' there's an article on a segment of a BBC News show called Click which looked at the restoration. I saw parts of the film on TCM and the print they used was atrocious, only saving grace was correct aspect ratio. Wish I had the equipment to watch this on.

The link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7520000/newsid_7526100/7526103.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1 will get you to the video of the show.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-14-2008, 07:12 PM:

Only way to judge the restoration work done on this film is after you had seen it on a large 1080p HD screen in Smilebox from a Blu-Rey disc and not from a Turner Classic Movie presentation on regular TV. After you done that, I am sure you will agree with me that it was superb!

-Claude

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 09-14-2008, 09:42 PM:

The copy TCM used was the one before the restoration. Can't see smilebox ever making it to TV!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-14-2008, 09:52 PM:

Encore has been running HTWWW and it has a VERY wide ratio and the join lines do not resemble those that were part of the CinemaScope transfers that I saw on Laserdisc and such.

It was NOT smile box but extreme letterbox. Another annoying artifact was the fisheye effect by seeing the image on a non deep-curve screen (that may be also corrected in a smilebox presentation).

BTW...does anyone here know if HTWWW was at Cinerama's 26fps or 24fps, I forget.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-15-2008, 08:17 AM:

I believe Brothers Grimm and HTWWW were both 24 fps. I remember reading someplace that MGM insisted on complete compatability with going to 35mm reduction.

Interestingly the Smile Box system is not new, It was actually part of each VistaVision installation where VV Film was actually run horizontally. Paramount did much research into this and concluded that in a darkened room it did provide the same illusion as a deep curve screen.

Mark

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-15-2008, 02:04 PM:

Mark,

A good friend who was a projectionist at several movie theatres in Honolulul once showed me a strip of VistaVision film in the horizontal format of Paramount;'s 1955 movie STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND. He got it from a friend who ran it in that format in New York City. Beside New York, and I am sure Los Angeles, where there many other cities that ran horizontal VistaVision prints?

-Claude

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-15-2008, 03:18 PM:

Two theatres in London were equipped, the Odeon Leicester Square ran 'Battle of the River Plate'; I think the other may have been the Paramount, Tottenham Court Road, but I'm not certain about that one. The Odeon had two Kalee Vista projectors, with three BTH SUPAs in between for normal 35mm. Photographs of this installation do exist; I think Hugh has some on his site.

Yes, here's one, with one of the odd-looking SUPAs just visible behind the Vista machine.

web page

I saw a very faded reel of the 'Battle of the River Plate' print projected, without sound, some years ago. It still looked impressive; I'd like to have seen it in its original condition. It's a pity the process wasn't more widely used.

I think the 'How the West Was Won' DVD is released over here towards the end of this month.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-15-2008, 04:46 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Beside New York, and I am sure Los Angeles, where there many other cities that ran horizontal VistaVision prints?

Not sure on that and also not sure if any real data exists on that. Far as I kow L.A. and NYC were the only two that actually ran the film horizontally. There were ALOT of problems doing it. I was told they ran two prints simultainously at The Paramount in NYC in case one machine popped whilst on screen. The taper pins holding the intermittent sprocket to the star wheel shaft liked to pop out and or become loose. Steve Krams had many remnants of intermittents and the alumnium sprockets they used in his parts collection in Fla. Later on adapted Brenkert intermmittents solved this problem in the Century VV projectors.

Mark

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-15-2008, 05:10 PM:

Interesting to note, When Pacific Theaters remodeled the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood and built the Arclight complex a few years ago, the dome was outfitted with three restored Cinerama projectors that came from a Cinerama theater in Hawaii. The dome is now one of three theaters in the world that can currently project three strip films.
The other US 3 strip theater is AMC's Seattle Cinerama. The Cinerama projectors installed at that location came from a Cinerama theater in Peru. The third theater is, of course, Pictureville in Bradford. I do not know the history of the Cinerama projectors at that theater.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-15-2008, 05:28 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I am sure Los Angeles

The Los Angeles VistaVision install was at the old Stanley Warner Beverly Hills Theatre.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-15-2008, 05:48 PM:

The Bradford equipment was gathered from various locations around the world. Some parts, including the seven track magnetic head for the reproducer, and some sprockets, were made new.

web page

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-15-2008, 06:52 PM:

When my friend Artie Wheeler was the projectionist at the Cinerama Theatre in Honolulu before the house closed, the three strip projection equipment that was shipped to LA and used at the Archlight was still there and I saw them during my visit to the booth. All of the stuff was covered with dust and still in place in the two booths to the right and the left Not sure where the centre projector went after they had put a pair of 70mm projectors in the middle booth to show IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD WONDERFUL WORLD and other single projection "Cinerama" films. The Cinerama did change overs until probable the last few years of operation and switched to a single projector and a Christie platter. The Cinerama was set up for SDDS only in addition to Dolby A and SR.

-Claude

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 09-17-2008, 11:26 AM:

Well, I watched the Blu-Ray HTWWW last night on 10' wide screen, and I have to say wow! I first saw this in Cinerama as a child in NYC, and I last saw this in Cinerama in the late 1990's when I flew out to Dayton Ohio. For those shows, they were running a collectors dye transfer Technicolor print. The film is a favorite.

As to the BR-DVD, they did an incredible job of removing the seam lines and fixing the aliasing so that it plays without obvious bend across the seams. The color was perfect, as was the sound.

I'm not sure whether I liked the smilebox or the letterboxed version better (both are in the set). Amazingly, the smilebox version did indeed simulate the effect of a curved screen in a totally dark room. On the other hand, it did induce some visual distortion in the side images. While not always visible, and only occassionally really noticable, it was there. On the other hand, the letterboxed version did not seem to have the same visual impact.

For those who are interested, the set includes an excellent documentary Cinerama Adventure that documents through film clips and interviews the entire history of Cinerama. It is very good.

Overall, I am very impressed.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-17-2008, 01:15 PM:

The price of the set is worth it just for the Documentary!

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-17-2008, 09:51 PM:

I wholeheartedly agree. It's a wonderful film in itself. I've had the pleasure of meeting David Strohmaier several times over the years and the amount of passion this man has for Cinerama is staggering. If it wasn't for Dave, John Sittig, John Harvey, and a bunch of others who's names I forget, Cinerama would be just a footnote in history. I'm so pleased David's documentary is getting widespread distribution.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 09-18-2008, 09:31 AM:

Is "Cinerama Adventure" in 1080P on the Blu-ray disc? That would be the reason I would buy this set over a standard DVD version of Cinerama Adventure. I just watched HTWWW on Encore in HD and I think it's an OK movie...average really. I did have the pleasure of seeing it at the Cinerama Dome in 2003 and being my only real Cinerama experience it was quite exciting in that setting. I was very impressed though with the work that was done to minimize the "join lines".

I am hearing that the "smilebox" format causes some distortion of a keystoning nature on the extreme edges...most notable during panning or movement. On the old LD version it was a standard letterboxed version and it also had distortion...though likely in the other direction! Best way I can describe it is in, say, the buffalo stampede it looks like the buffalo are smaller on the extreme edges creating an effect like they are running in a circle in front of you with the center of the screen being the closest point. Perhaps there is a more practical medium that they overshot when doing the "smilebox"? (Note: This was not so evident on the Encore broadcast because they cropped to 16:9 for the HD version...odd because they left the standard def version the full image!)

In any case the documentary would be of the most interest to me.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-18-2008, 10:03 AM:

I'm not sure why all this gear had to be moved from all over the world since alot of it still sits in Pacific Theaters Warehouse in L.A. If memory seves me there is a tour of the warehouse on You Toobe.

Mark

Edit: Here's the tour.... Cinerama Warehouse Tour With Gunther Jung

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 09-18-2008, 01:33 PM:

Is "Cinerama Adventure" in 1080P on the Blu-ray disc?

Your player may output it in 1080p, but unfortunately, it was mastered in standard definition 4x3 and it looks it.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-18-2008, 02:45 PM:

Mark the warehouse in the youtube short is a place in Burbank, CA called Pixfix. They use to store prints and repair and clean prints for the studios. Gunther maintained the company and the Cinerama equipment. But Pacific's projection warehouse was in the basement of the Hollywood Pacific Theatre in Hollywood.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-18-2008, 02:51 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
Two theatres in London were equipped, the Odeon Leicester Square ran 'Battle of the River Plate'; I think the other may have been the Paramount, Tottenham Court Road, but I'm not certain about that one.

The other West End cinema equipped to show horizontal VistaVision was in fact the Plaza, Lower Regent Street (sometimes advertised Plaza, Piccadilly Circus). Cannot remember what the film was, could it have been Strategic Air Command?

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0048667/

Plaza Theatre website: http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Plaza.htm Some lovely old programme lists to be seen here.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-18-2008, 04:03 PM:

Thank you Bernard.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-18-2008, 06:51 PM:

Bill, I was to one of those warehouses way back in the mid 80's... I honestly don't remember which one and the one in the video doesn't look familiar to me... although I've also been to Pix Fix and even had some of my own film done by them at that time... All I can remember was there was alot of Cinerama projector heads and sound reproducers in the place.... I suspect I toured the warehouse in Hollywood.

Mark

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 09-25-2008, 07:19 AM:

.........and don't forget the fourth operating three projector Cinerama installation is here in Australia, with a full set of prints too I understand.

David

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 09-25-2008, 08:44 AM:

On the wall in front of my computer, I have a framed copy of an ad for the Peerless HyCandescent, "selected by Paramount for horizontal V-V". The films listed are "Strategic Air Command" and "the Far Horizons".
Theatres: Chicago-State Lake, NYC-Paramount,NYC-Criterion, Philadelphia- Stanley, Pittsburgh-Penn, New Orleans-Saengers, Hollywood-Paramount, Beverly Hills-Warners, Toronto-Imperial, London-Plaza, Paris-Paramount.
Bob

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-27-2008, 12:10 PM:

Did the the Peerless HyCandescent look the same as the Peerless Magnarc but with a sloping negative feed? If so I worked on them at the old Columbia Theatre, Shaftsbury Avenue with the Philips DP 70s during my freelance days.

I showed the 35mm scope release of How The West Was Won at the Classic, Hampstead. I was surprised there were no complaints of the three panel Cinerama joins.

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 09-29-2008, 01:44 PM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
Did the the Peerless HyCandescent look the same as the Peerless Magnarc but with a sloping negative feed?

The HyCandescent was a totally different lamp. It was a high current lamp with condenser optics. They typically burned 13.6mm positives at 150-180 amps.
Bob

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-29-2008, 02:07 PM:

Thanks for the info Bob. Perhaps I should have taken a closer look at the only other Peerless lamphouse I've ever seen at The Projected Picture Trust, Bletchley Park which had the positive carbon rotating.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 10-16-2008, 11:00 AM:

In the Blu-ray set of HTWWW which disc has the "Cinerama Adventure" documentary? I want to get that from Netflix. Thanks.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-16-2008, 12:37 PM:

Disc one has the Cinerama Adventure documentary. I watched it last night. Very interesting to watch.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-17-2008, 03:45 AM:

quote: Robert Throop
It was a high current lamp with condenser optics. They typically burned 13.6mm positives at 150-180 amps.
Bob

Saw picts of these lamps at Radio City Music Hall - booth had 5 lamps that were behind XL machinery.

They finally had to to let the lamps go since there were no more condensor lenses being made and switched over to xenon consoles.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 11-02-2008, 04:41 AM:

I received my own (standard) DVD for the "HTWW" this week and vied it at home through my Home Cinema system (CP200 etc).

I was quite surprised how flat the Annologue DVD sound was with this film, I did compare the music both from the DVD and the Turner Classic 1997 CD which had a far better Dynamics than the DVD.

Has anyone noticed this with the Audio on the DVD?.

Personally, you can't beat the original 7 channel Cinerama sound in a Cinema for this movie.