Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Blu-ray for $100

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Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 11-11-2008, 02:25 PM:

Amazon has a great deal. $100 off selected Blu-ray players (including a $199 Sylvania) when you buy four WB titles (most titles $19.95 or less - and some good ones too)!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&ref_=amb_link_7767122_2&docId=1000279241&tag=bluraynews-20

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-11-2008, 02:48 PM:

I wrote about Amazon offering this deal back on Page 3 of the "DVD vs BR-DVD -- live together 4 how long?" thread.

The Sylvania NB500SL9 is reportedly a Bonus View profile 1.1 player, but its HDMI output support audio only to 5.1 channels, not 7.1. Still, it's not too bad with the discounted price dropping to $99 after rebate. The Samsung BD-P1500 can be made BD Live 2.0 capable with a firmware update and does support 7.1 audio via HDMI. That player costs something like $30 more.

Amazon added a few other BD players to the deal. For those wanting a higher end player, the Panasonic DMP-BD55K is $299.95 after the $100 discount. That player has internal decoding for the next-gen audio formats and has a 7.1 channel analog output along with the usual optical and HDMI outputs.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-11-2008, 03:05 PM:

Nobody who buys a $100 Blu-ray player will care about 7.1 channels... or even know what that is.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 11-11-2008, 10:15 PM:

I have to say...Blu-ray has really come along.

My local Costco has FOUR standalone Blu-ray players in stock starting at $199 (Philips).

It looks like everybody's really ramping up to promote it this holiday season.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-12-2008, 11:29 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
the Panasonic DMP-BD55K is $299.95 after the $100 discount.

We installed one of the Panasonic's (supplied by our customer) today feeding a Christie Cine IPM. This player is more or less like my Sony BDP-S300 player in that it has the load thingy that goes round and round and you wait and wait... A pathetically slow machine it is... Picture and sound are decent though.

Mark

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-13-2008, 12:01 AM:

Is the Panasonic BD player one of the newest models (DMP-BD35K, DMP-BD50K)? Reviews I've seen on the newest ones say they're a good bit faster on load times than the previous DMP-BD30 and DMP-BD50 models.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-13-2008, 07:09 AM:

Unfortunately this deal has expired. But I've heard that Blu-Ray prices are supposed to drastically drop after the first of the year.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-13-2008, 09:25 AM:

A few months ago the BDA (Blu-ray Disc Association) gave about a dozen Chinese manufacturers approval to make and market Blu-ray players for the Chinese market and for export to other countries (like the United States). I'm not expecting those players to become available in the beginning of 2009, but some of these players may be available by Summer of next year.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-14-2008, 01:17 PM:

The Blu-Ray we use here at the Giant Screen Theater is the PAnasonic DMP-BD30... just an ok player. The picture on some Blu-Ray disks is actually better then 35mm is at the same 70 foot wide image size!

Mark

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-14-2008, 10:20 PM:

Apparently some of Wal-Mart's "Black Friday" specials have leaked out to the press (I wonder if on purpose).Linky Linky

CNN and Money magazine are reporting that Wal-Mart will be selling the Magnavox Blu-ray player they've been stocking lately for only $129. Even more impressive is a 50" Samsung Plasma TV for $798.

Of course, the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for." People buying Blu-ray players (or HDTV sets or anything else) at very discounted prices may be stuck with a product that doesn't work quite as well as they would expect.

For the time being, I'm still recommending the Playstation 3 as the best overall Blu-ray player. If you're willing to deal with some slower load times (and even slower BD Live downloading times) the Panasonic BMP-BD35K is a good choice. The DMP-BD55K is an even better choice if you want both digital and analog 7.1 channel output.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-14-2008, 11:38 PM:

The sound off the internal Blu-Ray decoder is to my ears VERY lacking. The Pany I installed sounded very smooth and easy to take but lacked a large amount of detail. I ended up running out of the Coax Digital Out jack to the input of the USL ECI-60 digital cinema D to A converter and heard a huge, no actually enormous... improvement in the presented detail... however B-R sound quality is very definately trailing far behind digital cinema sound quality on the disks we ran.

Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-15-2008, 12:04 AM:

The only movie I have seen in Digital Cinema was The Nightmare Before Christmas. The Blu-ray version of the same movie sounds light years better. Light years. Yes, I know that is a distance and not a measure of time and thus not a valid comparison (or is it?). It sounds so awesome it makes you stupid.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-15-2008, 01:03 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I ended up running out of the Coax Digital Out jack to the input of the USL ECI-60 digital cinema D to A converter and heard a huge, no actually enormous... improvement in the presented detail... however B-R sound quality is very definately trailing far behind digital cinema sound quality on the disks we ran.

Do any of the digital cinema systems support HDMI inputs for video and/or audio? To me it would seem like a no-brainer since just about any D-cinema system has a major "phone home" to the distributor element to it.

quote: Joe Redifer
The only movie I have seen in Digital Cinema was The Nightmare Before Christmas. The Blu-ray version of the same movie sounds light years better.

Are you sure you're not being influenced by the new Dolby logo scheme? Woo-hoo.

Honestly, from what I understand, the 7.1 channel Dolby TrueHD mix on the Blu-ray of The Nightmare Before Christmas is a brand new thing. Whereas the 5.1 mix used on the 3D D-cinema shows is derived from the old print masters.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-15-2008, 02:31 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Are you sure you're not being influenced by the new Dolby logo scheme?

You mean this piece of shit?

Ug. It's like they're trying to look worse and worse. As a friend recently opined to me; Dolby is all corporation now, long gone is "Good ol' Dolby".

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-15-2008, 08:36 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Do any of the digital cinema systems support HDMI inputs for video and/or audio? To me it would seem like a no-brainer since just about any D-cinema system has a major "phone home" to the distributor element to it.

No, not yet but an HDMI input module is supposedly under development for the Cine IPM. The IPM supports just about every other type of signal though including DVID. The Blu-Ray sound was far from horrible but no where near as good as the audio comming out of the Doremi which keep in mind is uncompressed.

Mark

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 11-15-2008, 09:17 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Do any of the digital cinema systems support HDMI inputs for video and/or audio? To me it would seem like a no-brainer since just about any D-cinema system has a major "phone home" to the distributor element to it.

For just the video part, don't most D-Cinema projectors do DVI and as such would play just fine with HDMI w/ an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor? Though do the D-Cinema ones support HDCP? Because that would be embarrassing, having a fancy digital projector that reduced the resolution because of the content protection thing.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 11-15-2008, 11:49 AM:

Mark I do not doubt what you are saying but are you serious? The Blu-Ray run threw the D-Cinema projector looks better than the 35MM Film on a 70 foot wide screen?

Is that what you said?

Is that what you meant to say?

Just curious because others have made a claim of a superior picture at a smaller screen and been shouted down in here for it so I just want to understand what you are saying!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-15-2008, 02:35 PM:

1080p/24 on Blu-ray versus 35mm is a point of debate. Mark is claiming the BD looked better than 35mm. Brad Miller and others have commented how BD doesn't stack up to 35mm. Long threads have gone on about how 35mm is still superior to d-cinema.

Blu-ray is inferior to JPEG2000 D-cinema files on a number of points. AVC and VC1 compression is far more severe on Blu-ray. JPEG2000 compression used in D-cinema is fairly mild. And every film frame in JPEG2000 D-cinema is an absolutely separate still image. No inter-frame compression is allowed like what is present on Blu-ray.

The other variables involved, such as a near-HDTV resolution 2K digital intermediate, can ruin the advantage 35mm has. A limited amount of detail is being recorded to the film print. A movie with a true 4K DI or even something larger can look better projected via 35mm than a 2K digital projector. The quality of each projector and its level of setup and proper maintenance affects image quality. Quality of lenses is another important variable.

quote: Chris Slycord
For just the video part, don't most D-Cinema projectors do DVI and as such would play just fine with HDMI w/ an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor?

I thought HD-SDI connections were used between the server and projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2008, 03:21 PM:

The standard input compliment on a DCinema projector is two HDSDI coax inputs and two DVI inputs. The HDSDI inputs are for DCinema sources and DVI are for "alternative content."

As such, HDMI can be directly connected to a DCinema projector (And the projectors understand typical DVD/BD rates).

As to HDCP...many can now deal with that. All current Christie projectors are HDCP compliant, a bit of an upcharge, existing Christie projectors can be made HDCP compliant (the expense is in changing the board(s) inside to satisfy HDCP compliance and there is more than just the DVI/HDCP part). Barco's DP1200-3000 can be made HDCP compliant for a rather low upcharge. Older projectors can not and will likely never be HDCP compliant.

Barco is ahead of Christie on the alternative content switcher with the ACS-2048...they had the benefit of Folsom, a respected entity in the scaler market, prior to DCinema. The ACS-2048 is HDCP complaint. The Christie IPM is not so any HDCP content must be directly inputted into the CP2000 projector. The ACS-2048 is also a higher performance scaler.

NEC has one projector, the NC-1600 that is HDCP complaint, IF, you use the MM-2000 scaler (the one that mounts in the projector, not the "B" version that is external).

As to Blu-Ray looking better than 35mm? I sure haven't seen it...it doesn't look all that great when blown up reasonably large...far worse than typical DCinema content, which is notably worse than 35mm film...depending on where your print is in the food-chain and the quality of work done to derive it.

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-15-2008, 04:34 PM:

Steve, the only blu-ray worth trying that test out on is Baraka. Go pick up a copy and lets hear what you have to say.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2008, 10:49 PM:

I'm sure I will, someday. My observations, thus far, have been one systems that have supplied their own Blu-Ray discs/players...I just made sure they worked and tried to get them to look as good as possible.

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-17-2008, 11:21 PM:

I'd been meaning to ask -- what is DC-SDI? Sony makes mention of it in some of the SXRD literature, and I can't find any definitions anywhere. It seems to be on par with HD-SDI, insofar as the same board that accepts HD-SDI can take DC-SDI. But what is it? Some sort of Digital Cinema -scrambled/encrypted HD-SDI?

--jhawk

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-18-2008, 07:04 PM:

Sorry, I forgot about this... The Blu-Ray I ran was Baraka... there was also a Blu-Ray of Fantastic 4 and that looked so-so... but I doubt a film print would look much better. So who can complain... Blu-ray can look dam good. The average 35mm print I see in this area typically looks like junk... not always the theaters fault... just overall poor quality prints these days. There are a few sprinkled in here and there that look pretty darn good but they are becomming a rare thing. The poor quality prints we get in this area is not something that can be made better by installing any better projection gear.

Since one can purchase the Blu-Ray disk for less then one way shipping of any given 35mm film my opinion is that for locations needing just a few showings of a title you're going to see more and more Blu-Ray disks taking the place of 35mm.

Mark

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-18-2008, 10:10 PM:

I have not heard of a Barco projector being HDCP compliant. Last I heard the HDCP cards came out and did not work correctly. Perhaps I'm wrong. Future Barco projectors are to come with this feature, but not yet.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-19-2008, 06:48 AM:

I have not heard about the cards not working correctly. They definitely still list the card on the current price sheet (its relatively cheap).

Steve