Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Using Blu Ray for theater projection

This is topic Using Blu Ray for theater projection in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Louis Belloisy (Member # 3836) on 11-24-2008, 03:06 PM:

I work in an old restored movie house and we are starting a classic film series. We have a Sanyo digital projector (model unknown) and we use a regular dvd player for presentation. we are using regular off the shelf dvd's (with license).

We use my new sony dvd projector and the quality of the picture and sound is very good. However we have done a little research and really cannot find a pro version of a dvd player, as such.

The projector is located about 50 feet from the screen, in the mid orchestra section, projecting on a screen that is 30' x 20'.

My question is, will a blu-ray player give us a better presentation. I know nothing about blu-ray but several, knowledgeable people told us that the presentation will be better than our current player, using the same dvd discs.

any ideas?

louis

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 11-24-2008, 03:57 PM:

It really depends on your projector's resolution. If it is capable of 720p or higher AND has an HDMI input you will get a 50% increase in resolution on the screen. The player performs a process called "upconverting" to maximize the use of the data on the DVD. Of course if you have 1080p resolution on your projector you could use blu-ray when available and more than double your resolution.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 11-24-2008, 04:04 PM:

Yes It will look noticably better than dvd.
http://www.blu-ray.com/info/

Posted by Louis Belloisy (Member # 3836) on 11-24-2008, 04:21 PM:

thanks guys, i do not know the model or resolution of the projector. i will have to talk to the stage guys for that info. sounds encouraging so far.

louis

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-24-2008, 07:20 PM:

It won't look too much better using the same ol' crappy DVDs, but it will definitely look better with actual Blu-rays. Get a new projector while you're at Wal*Mart.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-25-2008, 03:42 PM:

There are a lot of conflicting opinions about how good "upscaling" or "upconverting" can look. Not only that, but it depends a lot of the exact hardware you have (exact model of projector and DVD player), as well as on how you have them connected.

Some people fall in Joe's camp (it won't look much better), others in Cameron's (it'll look much better). There's no dispute that it will not look as good as BluRay Disc itself, of course.

Joe T. is also correct that you need to be using HDMI in order for upscaling to work.

--jhawk

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-25-2008, 07:18 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Joe T. is also correct that you need to be using HDMI in order for upscaling to work.

Not if you have an external scaler that can deal with analog component or SDI.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-25-2008, 10:08 PM:

I believe JH was referring to using a Blu-Ray's upscaler...you need to use its HDMI out to take advantage of the internal upscaler.

By and large, I'm finding that external scalers do a superior job and allow for aspect ratio conversions and such.

Steve

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 11-26-2008, 03:57 PM:

Do external upscalers get around the HDCP compliance?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-26-2008, 04:14 PM:

HDCP shouldn't be a factor when playing standard definition DVDs.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-26-2008, 04:37 PM:

The only scaler that I'm aware of that deals with HDCP is the Barco ACS-2048. It was ready before their projectors were!

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-27-2008, 12:25 AM:

I think Joe's question was whether external upcalers let you use a projector that doesn't support HDCP.

The rational for the question is that DVD players that do upscaling typically only do so through HDMI/HDCP output, and not through HD component output. So if you have a video projector that doesn't support HDCP, you're out of luck for upscaling.
(Bobby, if you can cite a DVD player that upscales to 1080p and doesn't require HDCP, I'd love to hear about it. I'm not aware of any.)

I assume the answer is Yes, external upscalers will output a component HD signal or an SDI signal, and do not require HDCP in the projector.

Steve, what external upscalers do your recommend?

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-27-2008, 06:59 AM:

I've been quite pleased with the Extron DVS304 for analog stuff. The Barco ACS2048 does a decent job too. Folsom, in general, (a Barco company now) makes good scalers.

I haven't played with it very much, but many seem to like the Christie CineIPM2K. It isn't HDCP compliant yet...but the Christie DCinema projectors are (all being made today and all previous 2K models can be upgraded to HDCP compliance).

Steve

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-27-2008, 11:57 AM:

Doesn't the kind of "software" being played have something to do with how HDCP functions in HDMI? The level of copy protection in standard definition DVD video is somewhat limited. Blu-ray has more features, including the image constraint token (which I don't think has been used yet on any movie discs).

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-27-2008, 12:00 PM:

Well, in the context of DVDs, I believe upscaling DVD players require HDCP if the DVD is CSS-encoded, as of course they all are.

Yes, it is ironic that you can get an 1080p BD image out of a BluRay player without HDCP, but cannot similarly get an upscaled DVD image.

--jhawk

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-27-2008, 12:49 PM:

When setting up a home theatre, are there any pitfalls to watch out for with regard to HDCP? I have a friend who is looking a installing a full court press system based around a front projector rather than big screen TV. Am I correct to assume that as long as it is kept simple, connecting HDMI outs to HDMI ins, HDCP will not screw with him? Is there anything I need to warn him about making sure of HDCP compatibility?

And a second question. He is going to have to mount his projector the only place his wife will allow, but his equipment cabinet is separated quite a distance. What is the distance limitation on an HDMI cable run?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 11-27-2008, 01:11 PM:

He'll want to make sure that the projector supports HDCP.

And for going far distances there are two routes you can go:
1) Get an HDMI repeater or cable that includes similar technology
2) Get fiber optic HDMI

The latter will be uber-expensive though

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-27-2008, 03:26 PM:

Chris, you forgot his third option.

3) Get a divorce.

[Razz]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-27-2008, 03:51 PM:

Frank,

With some equipment it matters in which order you power it all on, such as the source, receiver and then TV, etc. With my equipment it doesn't seem to matter as the handshaking doesn't ever mess up.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-28-2008, 01:55 PM:

Thanks guys. I was unaware that the power-up order was an issue. So taking Brad's lead, I'll tell him order should be:

1) divorce
2) source
3) receiver
4) projector

And not for nuthin, Brad, I have suggested this to him MANY times. Seriously.

Posted by Louis Belloisy (Member # 3836) on 11-30-2008, 11:23 AM:

Update on Blu Ray in theaters.

We tested a Magnavox Blu Ray player with our theater's digital projector, a Sanyo - PLC EF-60 and the picture is outstanding. no pixelaltion and bright and sharp. Our projector is located in the orchestra sound box area and is about 65 feet from the screen, which is 30' by 20'.

Successful experiment. we tried our old sony dvd player and the picture is 100% better with the Blu Ray.

It does enhance a regular dvd to almost HD standard.

We also tried a blu ray disc, no country for old men, and it was outstanding.

Louis

[ 11-30-2008, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Louis Belloisy ]

Posted by Hal Smith (Member # 4356) on 12-25-2008, 12:58 PM:

There is some language in the HDMI/HDCP agreements that allow for external HDMI to component converters to drive early HD gear without HDMI inputs. I bought one off eBay for $250 that isn't half bad. I use it between my HDMI DirecTV and HD-DVD outputs and my Mitsubishi 55" Platinum HD. It also handles the direct, non-compressed 1920/1080i HDMI output of my Canon HV20 and delivers a really nice looking picture for a sub-$1000 class camera.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-25-2008, 06:11 PM:

I have done some demos the past few months displaying 21 to 28 foot wide images with Blu-ray using a 3 chip DLP projector with great results.....one location is running 35mm and the client prefers the digital display.