Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Blue Ray specs?

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-08-2009, 06:24 PM:

When the DVD format was introduced in 1997, the specs for it has been and still in place in 2009. Machines from the time the system was launched in most probability will still be able to play current DVD releases without any problem This is not the case with Blue-Ray. When my brother could not play a disc on his machine, he discovered that the disc was manufactured with new specs that required updating the firmware of his player.

Is Sony just about done tweaking the Blue-Ray format or will they continue to require Blue-Ray machines to have their firmware updated every time they make system modification?

-Claude

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-08-2009, 06:36 PM:

It's not just Sony. Other decks manufactured by Panasonic and Samsung etc. etc... are having playback issues.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-08-2009, 08:53 PM:

Bill,

It is hard to believe Panasonic, Samsung and other companies who are producing Blue Ray players are changing the BD specs when it comes to disc replication. I believe only Sony is calling the shots when it involves tweaking the format whenever they feel up to it.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-08-2009, 10:08 PM:

Hi Claude

I have two decks one a Sony and the other a Panasonic. The Sony I got was the BDP-S300 model which I got Dec. of 2007. The Panasonic BD-55 which I got Dec. of 2008. I found a few Paramount discs that I could not play on the Sony, even with the latest firmware update. But they play like a charm with the Panasonic. The Panasonic loads really fast. I've only had one glich in playback on it, when it froze. At one point I was looking at the Samsung P1500 which was at a great price here. But had problems from people on the net. I was lucky not to have a problem with the new Bond releases in Blu-ray.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-09-2009, 10:00 AM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
When the DVD format was introduced in 1997, the specs for it has been and still in place in 2009. Machines from the time the system was launched in most probability will still be able to play current DVD releases without any problem

That's not accurate. The specs for DVD may have been solidified in 1997, but that was not reflected in the players that shipped to the retail stores in the format's first couple of years.

The first DVD players sold to the public in 1997 had some serious limitations. Some had problems reading dual layer discs. None had compatibility with the DTS format. Most units were pretty buggy.

By the middle of 1999 most new DVD players featured DTS output and were better at reading dual layer discs, but some problems still persisted -like the lip sync error that plagued certain Sony DVD players (like the DVP-S530 player I bought for $450 in 1999 and replaced in 2001).

The pay per view DiVX format confused the situation with DVD even worse. I can't remember for sure if Universal, Dreamworks and Fox were backing DiVX exclusively, but I do remember seeing a lot of their titles on DiVX and not on "Open DVD."

The DVD format really wasn't properly stable, free of rivals and rid of bugs until the year 2000.

It has been an expensive pain for early adopters of the Blu-ray format. In defense of the Blu-ray forum, they were more up front with regard to changes in the format by using the profile numbering system. DVD didn't do anything like that. Additionally, the specs on Blu-ray were also set early on. But just like DVD, the first couple generations of players didn't support all the features of the format's "full profile."

At the Winter Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas some manufacturers have been showing off new BD Profile 3.0 players -which are basically just audio-only devices. The profile 3.0 spec calls for Blu-ray based audio discs that automatically start playing music when the disc is loaded into the player. Apparently the BD audio format will work with any existing Blu-ray video player as long as the player supports the audio formats on the disc, be it Linear PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. The format can feature 2 channel stereo in resolution as high as 24-bit 192kHz or up to 7.1 channels of 24-bit 96kHz audio. Dolby TrueHD can do 24/192 audio in 7.1. DTS-HD is limited to 24/96 in 5.1 or 7.1.

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I believe only Sony is calling the shots when it involves tweaking the format whenever they feel up to it.

Sony does not have sole ownership of the Blu-ray format. Matsushita has spent billions in R&D on Blu-ray and has a lot of clout in the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-12-2009, 02:06 PM:

My first generation Panasonic DVD player had major issues playing dual-layer discs, and I ended up working out a deal with my local retailer to upgrade to the second generation model for around $40. That player just finally got retired because it isn't recognizing discs as playable any longer.

Blu-ray as a format was rushed into production as a result of competition from HD DVD. As a result, they ended up having to do the multiple profiles for the additional features that are now called Bonus View and BD-Live.

Both formats have had their share of issues with updates being necessary, but I think that's par for the course with any sufficiently advanced technology. The positive thing about now compared to DVD's release is that the manufacturers have a way of helping consumers by releasing firmware updates. There was a firmware update that would have fixed a glitch in my Pioneer 563, but it would have taken sending it to a customer service center to be upgraded, so I never had it done. In contrast, Blu-ray players (the decent ones) can be updated automatically over the Internet, and others can be updated by using a disc sent in the mail or created from an image off the manufacturer's web site.

It's my impression that the situation with incompatibilities improved in the past couple of months, with the last playback issue being one release back in November.

Considering that many discs are programmed using Java, essentially creating a situation where the player has to run a software program (in a Java Virtual Machine) to show you the menus and load options, etc., it's surprising that there aren't more issues!

While the issues are annoying when they crop up, I'm glad that manufacturers are (to my knowledge) stepping up and fixing them quickly. I've not had any problems with playback on my PS3, but maybe other players are more prone to issues.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-14-2009, 03:53 PM:

I now have a Panasonic BD 35AK player and love the fact that I can now enjoy program contents on both regular dvds as well as Blue Ray although I do not have a high definition set yet. When it was released, I purchased a regular dvd and a Blue Ray of BARAKA and I do not know if I am imagining it but the picture quality is slightly better when I play the BD version. The sound played back on by Denon receiver sound much fuller. So much so that it clips once in a while when the sound volume is a little high There was a time when I lost sound from all of my surround speaker except the rear when I played the first few minutes of the BD of HOW THE WEST WAS WON. Everything sounded great until the Sound clipped and the surround speakers went silent except for the year. I feared the worst had happened but much to my relief, everything was fine after I went to the Pro logic mode and back to 6.1 surround. The sound has been clipping once in a while when I play other BD discs and I am concerned if there is a risk to my speakers if I do not do anything about it?

-Claude