quote: Chris Slycord

---

When large portions of the population only recently got the whole story since ads on TV previously only told them that digital was coming and to go to a website for more info, so anyone without internet didn't get the info.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Personally I don't think the Government shouda handed out free coupons to anyone that wanted them...

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quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I figured it would be a good idea to point out this fact because the popular belief is that the DTV signals will not come in as well as the analog ones.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

There have been hundreds of web sites for many years, this site included that have had the cutoff date posted.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

All the channels especially PBS has done a great job at getting the word out to all that watch.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

Personally I don't think the Government shouda handed out free coupons to anyone that wanted them... They should have been reserved for those that truely cannot afford one.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Surveys are only as good as the level of honesty those being asked are willing to provide in their answers.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

All the channels especially PBS has done a great job at getting the word out to all that watch.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Here in Denver, DTV comes in much worse than analog. Whenever the wind blows, it cuts out. They are not running the DTV transmission at full power because those who have the authority to make such decisions clearly have micropenises.

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quote: Chris Slycord

---

Forgive me if I trust a survey done by a reputable organization over your baseless assumption that the people surveyed are lying.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Not everyone is honest.

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quote: Chris Slycord

---

On the other hand, there's a HUGE difference between saying "Not everyone is honest" and "I'm dismissing the whole survey because some people aren't honest." Most people are, in fact, honest.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Personally, I think it is all a bunch of BS. They should have left well-enough alone.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Who would have thunk that the actual air waves were going to change?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

They got a 3 year reprieve when the original May, 2006 analog cut-off date was pushed back to February, 2009. It's too bad for them they didn't take advantage of the extra time to get prepared for the change. Come June 12 they'll be begging for yet another deadline extension.

---

quote: Sam Graham

---

Those (alleged) six million homes will find a way get their act together in a hurry.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

---

President Obama has called for $650 million in stimulus spending (taxpayer money)

---

Funny how they "ask for" taxpayer money but the taxpayers have no choice but to pay it (although I guess this won't be paid until sometime in about the 24th century, if ever).
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-26-2009, 08:39 PM:
 
Pssssssssssst.

Mike, in the lower right hand corner of the 1040 is a checkbox called "request denied"...you don't have to pay!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-26-2009, 09:19 PM:
 
Well, the US Senate did their part on this DTV delay.

Senate OKs 4-month delay to digital TV changeover (AP)

quote: Andrew Taylor, Associated Press

---

Posted on Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:31PM EST

WASHINGTON - The Senate on Monday voted unanimously to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting by four months to June 12 — setting the stage for Congress to pass the proposal as early as Tuesday.

Monday's Senate vote is a big victory for the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress, who have been pushing for a delay amid growing concerns that too many Americans won't be ready for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 changeover.

The Nielsen Co. estimates that more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals could see their TV sets go dark next month if the transition is not postponed.

"Delaying the upcoming DTV switch is the right thing to do," said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to push back the deadline. "I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition at this time."

The issue now goes to the House, where Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., has vowed to work with House leaders to bring Rockefeller's bill up for a floor vote on Tuesday.

President Barack Obama earlier this month called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for government coupons that consumers may use to help pay for digital TV converter boxes. The boxes, which generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon, translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs.

The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones expire and free up more money. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list as of last Wednesday.

Jonathan Collegio, vice president for the digital television transition for the National Association of Broadcasters, argues that the Nielsen numbers may overstate the number of viewers who are not ready for the digital transition. He noted that the numbers exclude consumers who have already purchased a converter box but not yet installed it, as well as those who have requested coupons but not yet received them.

What's more, consumers who subscribe to cable or satellite TV service or who own a TV with a digital tuner will not lose reception.

Still Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at Consumers Union, argues that millions of Americans — particularly low-income and elderly viewers — will pay the price because "the government has failed to deliver the converter boxes these people deserve just to keep watching free, over-the-air broadcast signals."

In 2005, Congress required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial wireless services and interoperable emergency-response networks.

Republicans in both the House and Senate have raised concerns that a delay would confuse consumers, burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the airwaves that will be vacated and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals.

Paula Kerger, president and CEO of the Public Broadcasting Service, estimates that delaying the digital TV transition to June 12 would cost public broadcasters $22 million.

But Rockefeller managed to ease some of these concerns by allowing broadcast stations to make the switch from analog to digital signals sooner than the June deadline if they choose and by permitting public safety agencies to take over vacant spectrum that has been promised to them as soon as it becomes available.

___

Associated Press writer Andrew Taylor contributed to this report.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Honestly...it is probably best to get the switch over past the regular broadcast season...if they are concerned about ratings...those normally wrap up in Mayish (give or take a few weeks).

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

It won't be practical without outside help.

---

quote: Louis Bornwasser

---

For a given power, the new digital transmitters consume much less power from "the wall." There is some component of saving money on this.

---

quote:

---

WASHINGTON - Bucking the Obama administration, House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 — leaving the current Feb. 17 deadline intact for now.

The 258-168 vote failed to clear the two-thirds threshold needed for passage. It's a victory for the GOP members, who warn that postponing the transition would confuse consumers.

The House Republicans say a delay also would burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the spectrum that will be vacated by the switchover, and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals for four more months.

The defeat is a setback for the administration of President Barack Obama and Democrats on Capitol Hill, who fear too many Americans won't be ready for next month's analog shut-off. The Nielsen Co. estimates more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals still are not prepared for the transition. People who subscribe to cable or satellite TV or have a newer TV with a digital tuner will not be affected.

"In my opinion, we could do nothing worse than to delay this transition date," said Joe Barton of Texas, the top Republican on the House Commerce Committee. "The bill is a solution looking for a problem that exists mostly in the mind of the Obama administration."

Barton led the push to scuttle the bill, which passed the Senate unanimously on Monday night.

The Obama administration had no immediate comment on the House vote.

Congress in 2005 required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial services and interoperable emergency-response networks.

But the Obama administration called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department earlier this month hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for coupons to subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. The coupon program allows consumers to request up to two $40 vouchers per household to help pay for the boxes, which translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs. The boxes generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon.

The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones reach a 90-day expiration date and free up more money. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list last week and those people will not receive their coupons before Feb. 17.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 — leaving an estimated 6.5 million U.S. households unprepared

---

That's quite the wording in that article. Blaming the politicians for leaving the households unprepared.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2009, 09:53 AM:
 
Yeah, unfortunately the bill itself wasn't really killed. The House just couldn't vote to suspend normal rules so the thing could be fast tracked. That requires a 2/3 super-majority of the House.

The DTV Delay bill can be brought back to the House floor some time next week under the normal rules which would only require a simple majority to pass. However, the length of debate could go on longer and various amendments/riders could be attached. Even if passed, the bill could be complicated enough that it would have to be reconciled with the Senate's version. That would use up even more time.

There is a good possibility if Congress manages to pass the DTV Delay bill it wouldn't wind up in front of the President for signing until after the Feb. 17 deadline.

Right now we have 19 days until the current deadline. When/if the House sees this bill again there will be less than 2 weeks left before deadline. It's a good bet the bill would get lots of little attachments requiring it to go back into committees for reconciliation. That will clog it up for at least a couple days provided Congress didn't have anything else better to do.

And that gets to the real problem: Congress is loaded down with lots of other bills to examine and discuss. The economic stimulus package seems certain to encounter filibuster trouble in the Senate. Then there's that whole "first 100 days" thing. I think Congress just doesn't have nearly enough time to revisit this DTV delay issue since they have more important fish to fry.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-29-2009, 09:58 AM:
 
My busy schedule doesn't give me time to watch much TV.

When my cable line came down during a big winter storm several years ago, I never called to have it repaired.

>ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS I EVER MADE!<

But I've been fighting since day one to to try and get one of those digital converter box coupons.

I applied for one online a few days after it became possible to do so.

My request was immediately rejected.

The reason given was that I'd already applied for and received my limit of two coupons.

HUH? I'm the only one living at this address. Nobody else with the same name or address could have applied.

There was an appeals process. I went through this twice and was rejected both times for the same reason.

Every time I tried calling the well advertised DTV question line 800 number, I got someone who did not understand English well enough to comprehend my problem. Their only suggestion [ obviously following the script they were given] was that I should subscribe to cable or satellite.

I also personally know two people who GOT their DTV converter box coupons only to be told they were "not valid" when they went to use them. The store clerks told them that computer system that verifies the discount card numbers "did not recognize the card numbers" and that they'd have to pay full price. Their efforts to resolve the problem online or by phone were fruitless.

The web is full of similar stories.

If the goverment can't even manage a simple FREE coupon give-away program without royally f-ing it up, it frightens me to think of what will happen if they ever get their hands on the health care system like they want to.

I've given up on getting the converter box coupon.
Mabye I'll give up watching TV all together.

That may be the 2nd best decision I'll ever make.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-29-2009, 10:57 AM:
 
Now if the stations have any class...they'll use a vintage sign-off screen, with the National Anthem to boot!..."This concludes our lifetime's programming on this channel...please join us on our new Digital channel...yadda, yadda, yadda.."
 

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Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 01-29-2009, 03:12 PM:
 
If we are willing to admit it we all know that a certain percentage of people will NEVER prepare for the transition. In spite of the ever-increasing attempts to educate viewers a small percentage - like the 6.5 million homes referenced in the news stories about the legislation - will not act until they turn on the TV and see only static. Inevitably they will mention it to someone who will explain it to them or more likely attain and install the necessary equipment for them.

What do you want to bet if they delay it till June there will still by five million unprepared homes?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-29-2009, 04:54 PM:
 
Steve, that would be great. I was definitely planning on watching an analog station when the transition occurs. Maybe I should videotape it. Anyone here remember videotape? Nah, I'll just digitize it into my computer.

I just can't decide which channel to watch. It had better not be on a Thursday night.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2009, 06:04 PM:
 
I'll be watching it happen on my 1946 RCA 10" B&W set. Might as well watch a lifetime of tv transmission come to an end on one of the very first televisions you could ever own!

Jim,
Of course I applied for and received coupons for each of my vintage televisions... all 7 of them... haha just kiddin. I'll just wait till the converters show up at the resale shops in a few years... Till then I can run old TV shows from DVD on them.

Mark
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-30-2009, 08:12 AM:
 
My reception here with an indoor antenna isn't good enough to record anything off analog TV for keeps (not that there's been anything on recently I'd want to do that with) but if I did record the last analog broadcast I'd put it on VHS or Beta, rather than DVD, because my VCRs will record the main audio in Hi-Fi and the SAP (Second Audio Program) on the linear track of the tape. DVD recorders can't do that.

I was just checking out the digital stations and most of the morning news shows are in widescreen but have everything set up so if you crop it to 4x3 (which all of the digital tuners for old TVs can do) you don't lose anything- like the news anchors at the desk have empty space on the sides, and text is in the 4x3 safe area. I see the networks have even moved their precious bugs a few inches over so they won't be cut off either. Glad I quit watching TV years ago because this would be another thing to annoy me.

What's really great is when they run commercials shot wide, but only have a standard-def letterboxed master. That means on the HD channel they have to show it as a 4x3 letterboxed picture with black area on both sides of that. This looks fantastic when you then watch that letterboxed on a 4x3 screen. Since the commercials are the most important thing they show you'd think they would've fixed that in a hurry.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-30-2009, 09:03 AM:
 
Mabe I could get VERA to record it for me. (Anybody from the other side of the water probably won't understand that one).
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-30-2009, 09:03 AM:
 

quote: Jesse Skeen

---

I was just checking out the digital stations and most of the morning news shows are in widescreen but have everything set up so if you crop it to 4x3 (which all of the digital tuners for old TVs can do) you don't lose anything- like the news anchors at the desk have empty space on the sides, and text is in the 4x3 safe area. I see the networks have even moved their precious bugs a few inches over so they won't be cut off either.

---

I'm not sure how much longer after Feb. 17 the major TV networks will be composing material with a 4:3 safe action area in the center of the screen. It poses some significant limits on what really can be done within a 16:9 frame.

Regarding the little network "bug" logos on the screen, I still plenty of them getting cropped. I was watching 24 Monday night in SD (I don't get than one in HD yet). Their "FOX HD" logo in the bottom right was partially cropped. A little of the "HD" lettering was visible.

EDIT

Looks like Congress is at it again. Late yesterday afternoon the US Senate quietly pushed through a tweaked version of the DTV Delay bill. It should wind up on the House floor for discussion some time next week -with only 2 weeks remaining before the current DTV deadline. Great.


DTV Date Switch Facilitated by Senate

quote: Ira Teinowitz, TV Week

---

January 29, 2009 5:06 PM

The prospects for a delay of the switch to all-digital broadcast TV signals increased as the Senate approved a revised piece of legislation that would permit pushing back the Feb. 17 DTV deadline.

With no debate, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed the bill in anticipation of a House of Representatives vote next Tuesday to delay the transition to June 12.

The Obama administration urged the House to act next week to delay the changeover.

“Poor planning and inadequate funding of the DTV conversion means that millions of Americans risk being left in the dark on February 17th," the administration said in a statement.
"This bipartisan legislation which again passed unanimously in the Senate tonight appropriately acknowledges the needs of both the American consumer and the public safety community. We urge the House to move quickly to pass this bill, and we will work with Congress to improve the information and assistance available to Americans as the nation moves to digital television.”

The Senate vote was expected after senators discovered that there were technical flaws in the original version of the legislation approved Monday night. The most recent Senate vote eliminates one obstacle to enacting a DTV delay when the House returns Monday.

The new Senate vote means the House will be sending any legislation it approves directly to President Barack Obama, speeding approval.

Republicans have opposed the DTV date shift as unnecessary and offered an alternative that would instead fix the problem with government coupons for converter boxes. Money for converter-box coupons has temporarily run out, leaving requests for 2.6 million coupons on a waiting list.

Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockeller, D- W.Va., offered the new Senate bill with Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, the ranking Republican on his committee.

“The Senate has acted quickly and in a bipartisan way to put the needs of consumers first,” Mr. Rockefeller said. “The House will have a second chance next week to implement this delay, I am hopeful they will pass this bill so we can send it to President Obama.”

Sen. Hutchison said that while she and Sen. Rockefeller agreed to the extension, the deadline won’t be extended again after June.

“I do want to serve notice that I will not support another delay in implementation,” she said. “By now, people, have had the notice and we’ve done everything to mitigate the cost of this transition. I’ve talked with Sen. Rockefeller about that and I think we are in agreement that now is the time for people to get their coupons and boxes because on June 12 this transition will be made.”

The bid to delay the national changeover comes as a number of the nation’s 1,800 stations are quietly making the switch to digital. The Federal Communications Commission said tonight that 133 TV stations have already switched to digital-only signals, with another 67 set to switch before Feb. 17 and 93 to switch at midnight Feb. 17, whatever happens with the delay legislation.

---

quote:

---

(CNN) -- American TV viewers have four extra months to get ready for the day their local stations shut down their analog transmitters, thanks to a delay in the digital TV transition approved by Congress Wednesday.
The government's fund to give people $40 coupons to help buy converters ran out of money in recent weeks.

The government's fund to give people $40 coupons to help buy converters ran out of money in recent weeks.

The House, by a vote of 264 to 158, passed a Senate bill that would reset the death of analog TV to June 12, a measure President Barack Obama is expected to sign.

An estimated 6.5 million homes -- including many elderly, poor and disabled Americans -- would lose TV service after February 17 without the delay, supporters argued.

People who pay for cable or satellite TV service will be unaffected by the change.

The delay was opposed by Republicans who said the government has already given people years to prepare for the switch to digital TV.

"If you don't know this date is coming up, you're probably not watching television," said Rep. Roy Blunt, a Missouri Republican. "And if you're not watching television, you probably won't know on February 18 whether it occurred or not."
Don't Miss

* FCC: Digital TV Transition
* Congress must act on TV switch, rights group says

The Commerce Department ran out of money last month for its program to help people pay for converter boxes needed to make older TVs receive the new digital signals. There are 3.7 million homes on the waiting list for the $40 coupons, said Rep. Rick Boucher, a Virginia Democrat.

"It's clear that the only way to avoid a massive disruption affecting 5.7 percent of the TV viewing public is to delay the transition and provide the funding to assure that, when it occurs, it occurs smoothly," he said.

Federal Communication Commission acting Chairman Michael Copps said the delay gives the government "an opportunity to do it better."

"The additional four months provided by the law affords urgently needed time for a more phased transition, including a consumer-friendly converter box coupon program, stepped-up consumer outreach and support -- particularly for vulnerable populations -- and dealing with coverage, antenna and reception issues that went too long unaddressed," Copps said.

He had sent a letter to Congress last month "to express our deep concern" that the FCC was "nowhere near" ready for the deadline "to pull the plug on television service in millions of American homes."

The Federal government raked in $20 billion by selling licenses for the frequencies being vacated by local television stations for other commercial uses.

Some of the frequencies were also reserved for emergency agencies to use for communications.

Republicans said the delay would prevent some emergency agencies from using their new communications systems.

Rep. Anthony Weiner, a Democrat from New York, said having a working TV is also important for the safety of those with older sets.

"They are going to lose the most important connection to the outside world and emergency response -- the television," he said.

Opponents noted the new date for the end of analog TV will come just as the hurricane season begins. Forcing conversion in February would be safer, they said.

All local stations will eventually pull the plug on the analog transmitters they've used since the invention of television. The stations have begun digital broadcasts over the past several years.

---

 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-04-2009, 08:07 PM:
 
Regardless of this new legislation, local TV stations are not required to keep broadcasting their analog signals until June 12.

As many as 60% of US TV stations are proceeding as originally planned to turn off their analog broadcasts at the end of Feb. 17. An unspecified number of other stations may radically reduce the power of their analog TV broadcast transmissions after Feb. 17 to save money and not put procrastinating viewers entirely in the dark.

I'm hoping all the major network TV stations in my viewing market have full power DTV signals after Feb. 17. The OTA HD broadcast signals are of higher quality than the "HD Lite" versions of them you get via satellite TV service.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-04-2009, 10:12 PM:
 
Our local plans so far:

WOI (ABC) - Expected to file for Feb 17 transition
KCCI (CBS) - Has filed with FCC to end analog Feb 17
WHO (NBC) - Has filed with FCC to end analog Feb 17
KDIN (PBS) - They're going to transition on the "mandated shutoff date", meaning they'll go with June 12 if that becomes law.
KDSM (FOX) - Has filed with FCC to end analog Feb 17
KCWI (CW) - Previously received extension to August citing "financial hardship".
KFPX (ION) - Nobody cares
KDMI (MY) - Never had analog in the first place.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-05-2009, 08:57 AM:
 
All of the Salt Lake City stations are switching over anyway with the FCC's blessing. Apparently the cities in which DTV has made at least X percentage of inroad will more than likely be switching anyway. Imagine those poor Mexican towns that depend on ANALOG TV from places like El-Paso... They'll have nothing... they shoUld all request coupons from the US government!
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 02-05-2009, 10:29 AM:
 
I don't really see why they'd need the "blessing" to stick to the original date. To me, that should be their choice whether someone in the Feds hands out a blessing or not.

If the viewers complain, that's simply something the stations would have to deal with... like any other business decision.

At least with the extension of the official date, we'll have an extension of when the poorer folks can get their coupons.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-05-2009, 10:39 AM:
 
I would not be one bit surprised if our government did send millions of coupons to places like Ciudad Juarez.

A website called rabbitears.info has a fairly up to date list on which TV stations are already prepared to end analog TV broadcasts. The list is here.

According to their list, the ABC station in my market, KSWO-TV channel 7 in Lawton already filed their paperwork with the FCC to cut off analog broadcasts on Feb. 17 and is set to follow through on that plan. None of the other three in the viewing market have done so. However, those three stations in Wichita Falls may drastically cut back the power levels on their analog transmissions to cut electrical costs. Only people living in the immediate Wichita Falls area would get any analog TV reception.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-05-2009, 02:25 PM:
 
Alright! The government takes something fairly simple and makes it even more confusing! Way to go! Not seeing the "change" here.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-05-2009, 09:51 PM:
 
The rabbitears.info list of stations set to allow analog TV broadcasts to "go silent" is now out of date due to new rules the FCC released today.

Any TV station wanting to end analog TV broadcasts on Feb. 17 must have new forms filed no later than Monday Feb. 9. Otherwise they will have to wait until the end of March before a new round of early signal terminations is allowed. Even if the paperwork is submitted on time the FCC can still block a station's move to end analog broadcast on Feb. 17 if they think too many viewers in that market are not prepared for the DTV transition. On top of that, even if a station is allowed to terminate its analog broadcast it will not be allowed to move to its permanent DTV channel assignment until after June 12.

Basically I think this is going to screw a lot of viewers who wanted to get better quality DTV signals over the air by the previously established deadline. Fewer TV stations will be able to go to full power with their DTV broadcasts after Feb. 17.

I'm glad I still have an appointment Monday to have a "wing dish" added to my rooftop satellite dish so I can get HD local channels via satellite. It could end up being another four months before I can pick up the FOX and CBS DTV signals over the air.

I wonder if anyone is going to start betting on whether the government will come up with yet another deadline delay in late May in response to not enough people being ready for DTV. Odds are pretty high for that.

 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-06-2009, 10:39 AM:
 
All the local stations here claim they're sticking to the Feb. 17th cutover date. They've done two digital-only tests where they shut down their analog transmitters completely to see how many complaints would be triggered. The most any of the stations got was like 2 or 3. A couple got zero complaints.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-06-2009, 03:47 PM:
 
Here is another interesting piece of data about DTV readiness in the United States.

The Nielsen generated map took the top 56 largest TV viewing markets in the nation and rated each in terms of preparedness.

I was very surprised by the results of Oklahoma City versus Tulsa. It seems like Tulsa is always regarded as the most sophisticated city in Oklahoma, yet it ranks near the bottom on DTV preparedness. Oklahoma City ranked in the top 10 for best DTV cities. Incidentally, nearly all the OKC broadcast affiliates are still planning to turn off their analog broadcasts.

The Nielsen map also shows that people over the age of 55 are among the best prepared for the DTV switch. The least prepared: people under the age of 35. Yep. Bunch of procrastinating slackers.

 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 02-06-2009, 03:56 PM:
 
Strange because I think I only know one other person under 35 who even uses rabbit ears anymore. In fact, one of my fellow students who's a year or two younger than me thought that you couldn't even use those anymore already. Everyone else I know has some form of cable.
 

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Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 02-06-2009, 04:36 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

The Nielsen map also shows that people over the age of 55 are among the best prepared for the DTV switch.

---

quote:

---

KSWO to stick to original DTV transition date

Posted: Feb 6, 2009 05:01 PM

Lawton_You have probably seen the announcements and text running across the bottom of the screen on your 7News programming for more than a year - television broadcasters are switching to digital. After much debate, this week, Congress voted to move the deadline for final switch-off for old fashioned analog broadcasting to June 12. However, many television stations - including all of Texoma's stations - will stick to the original transition date. That means that your 7News station will have our final analog broadcast on February 17 - one week from next Tuesday.

7News sat down with our station management team to talk about why we're going ahead with the switch, and why we're not waiting until June. They say it's because we're ready now, and holding off actually would cause more problems such as coordinating with cable companies, satellite providers, and more. According to a recent survey, more than 99% of our viewers are ready for the switch.

KSWO has had its digital transmitter since 2005, and the station is ready to shut down the analog. "We're going to go ahead and transition on the original date, because that's when everything is planned," said General Manager Larry Patton. "The cable systems, the satellite folks, the people at home - for two years we've been telling them it's February 17th, and we think it's time to go."

February 17 was the drop-dead date, but stations actually could end analog broadcasting earlier. KSWO is sticking to the original plan. "We're going to turn the transmitter off at 11:59 pm on the 17th of February," said Director of Engineering Joe Bartnik. "At that time - if they're on an antenna - they need to have a set top box."

The ‘set top boxes' are available at many local electronics shops if you have an older TV set that is not digital. If you have cable you won't need a converter. If you have cable and are not on an antenna and you have problems, contact your television service provider. "If they're on satellite, and they're on Dish Network, then it's a Dish Network problem," said Bartnik. "If they're on DirecTV then technically they're still on antenna, and they haven't made the provisions to cover them."

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is okay with KSWO switching to digital, but on Friday came out with a new mandate about alerts to consumers and viewers. "For the first five days, we have to run a crawl five minutes of every hour - the same crawl that people have been watching the last month," said Patton. "They're going to get to see that crawl for five minutes every hour, and the last two days before the transition they're going to get to see that crawl for 10 minutes, every hour of the day, all day long."

7News apologizes in advance for any inconvenience the crawl may cause, and if you have complaints or comments, please contact the FCC at 1-888-CALL-FCC or 1-888-225-5322. If you have further questions about the digital conversion, visit www.kswo.com and click on the Digital Wizard icon.

---

quote: Joe Tommassello

---

Bob - thanks for the link but now they have this at the top of the page:

NOTE: THIS LIST IS NOW OUTDATED DUE TO NEW FCC RULES RELEASED AS OF 02/05/2009 AND WILL BE UPDATED SOON. PLEASE BE PATIENT.

---

quote:

---

The religious ones are already broadcasting in Digtial but still have standard def!

---

quote:

---

The religious ones are already broadcasting in Digtial but still have standard def!

---

quote: Julio Roberto

---

Luxemburg, Sept 1 2006, first country in the world to switch off analog.

---

quote:

---

Well, They only had 13 TV sets there so that one was easy!

---

LOL yeah.

Most of the countries switching off analog early are small in either size or population, usually in both, so it's much easier there. Large countries with many repeaters and/or large populations have worse logistics and economics at work

The largest countries in Europe are usually targetting a 2012 analog blackout.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-10-2009, 10:04 PM:
 

quote:

---

México is targeting a 2022 date for their analog turn-off.

---

They may be forced to end analog transmissions earlier than that.

I believe it won't be long at all before electronics companies stop including analog tuners in new TV sets. The tuners will be useless in most countries -particularly in the country which uses TV sets the most: the United States. Why waste money including such a feature? Omit it and be able to either lower prices or raise profit margins.

I suppose if Mexico buys enough new TV sets then companies like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, etc. will continue making dual tuner TV sets to sell there. Maybe. Or maybe not.

Analog TV transmitters are practically antiques at most TV stations. I'm sure that's true in Mexico as well. Such transmitters are expensive to maintain. It may not be easy to get replacement parts either. It won't be long before companies making the components for analog transmitters stop doing so completely.

Unless Mexico starts making its own TVs and analog broadcast gear the country may get dragged into the future of DTV much earlier than they're planning.

Some rural areas of the United States will continue receiving analog signals via low power analog repeaters. Viewers in those areas may soon find it difficult to buy new TV sets that can receive those signals. It might create a good underground market for obsolete analog TV sets still in good working condition.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 02-10-2009, 10:23 PM:
 
If Mexico can't make the TVs with analog tuners, I'm sure some plant in China will be more than willing to make a shitty one for them.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 02-11-2009, 12:33 AM:
 
Well, manufacturers already make different models for different markets. They've been putting out models with analog PAL tuners for us for ... ever.

Our new digital terrestrial TV standard here is different from the one you use in the USA, not counting the electrical outlets being 230v in the EU. So, once again, most models sold in the US would not be useable here.

In North america and south korea, it's ATSC. In Japan and Brasil, ISDB-T. Here, in Europe, it's DVB-T, as it is in Australia, New Zealand, Colombia, Uruguay and some countries of Africa.

Chinese use their own DMB-T/H.

A (digital) integrated IC analog-tuner is about a $2 cost. There are no "bad analog tuners" in the market anymore. That is, there may be, but with a top-of-the-line out driven by Philips or Conexant chip inside for $4 for the whole analog front end+digitizer in small qtys ... who cares?

Heck, a whole mixed multi-standard NTSC/PAL/SECAM analog plus DVB-T and DVB-S digital front end and decoders is less than $9 in small qtys ... It is not a significant cost or savings to a TV manufacturer.

Nonetheless, they indeed are leaving it out of some products. A family member already bought a Philips portable TV that lacks an analog tuner here but includes a terrestrial digital one.

It was this one http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/es/es/consumer/cc/_productid_PVD1079_12_ES_CONSUMER/PVD1079-12#/consumer/es/es/consumer/cc/_productid_PVD1079_12_ES_CONSUMER/PVD1079-12
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-11-2009, 01:48 AM:
 
Who cares about Mexico?

Answer: Not even Mexicans.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 02-11-2009, 08:44 AM:
 
Here in San Francisco Bay Area, where most TV stations transmit from one central tower ("Sutro Tower") all the current VHF stations must make the DTV switch on the same date due to technical issues in relocating and re-tuning antennas located on the tower.

According to a recent press release, it will take at least 9 months, and possibly longer, before all the current analog channels operating on channels in the VHF-Hi & VHF-Low bands can transmit at full power on their new DTV channel assignments from Sutro Tower.

But several local TV stations (Such as KOFY-TV20) which already opeate on UHF frequencies are intending to stop analog operation on Feb 17 as planned, since they will contine to use their current UHF antenna, with some slight re-tuning.

ALSO> If you were 'suckered' into buying a "Digital TV Antenna", you might be in for a surprise in June if you are not in a good signal area when the final DTV transition takes place.

DTV transmisissions are currently located in the UHF band occupied by UHF channels 52-59. According to info on the FCC and other websites, these channels will be abandoned when the "Digital D-Day" finally happens and the DTV stations you currently watch will be moving to new frequencies in the lower end of the UHF band. So if you bought an antenna optimised for the current DTV channel line up, it may not work so well when the transition finally takes place if you are in a fringe area.

ALSO, some TV stations (Such as KGO-TV7 here in SF) will still continue to broadcast in the VHF-Hi band, and won't be on a UHF freq at all- - again making reception tricky for some people in outlying areas depending on the type of antenna they have.

Here in the SF Bay Area, those troubles are minimzed by the fact that most broadcasters are trasmitting from a common location, but in other areas of the country where different stations may have transmitters seperated by several miles or on different mountain-tops, getting all the stations to come in well might be a bit of a challange depending on your exact location relative to the transmitters.

The final DTV Channel Assignments can be found On This Link
FCC Final DTV Channel Assignments

Today's Fun Photo: "Sutro Sunrise"
I took this from the roof of the Ft Miley VA Hosptial


Current & Future Antenna Locations On Sutro Tower

In case you were wondering, Sutro Tower is 977ft high,
but is located on a mountain top which makes its'
total height 1,811ftASL.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-11-2009, 08:11 PM:
 
Nice picture Jim!

quote:

---

México is targeting a 2022 date for their analog turn-off.

---

Mexico may not be around then... they seem to be killing each other off at a fairly rapid rate.

Mark
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-11-2009, 09:02 PM:
 
Apparently, the delay was signed into law today.

It appears that the major network stations in the Boston market (WBZ, WCVB, and WHDH) will continue their analog broadcasts until the later date.

One station in this market (WFXT) has been having issues with its analog transmitter since some time in December. Rather than repair it, they have been running it at reduced power since then. I don't know what their plans are with respect to the new cutoff date.

Interestingly, several stations in nearby Providence (where viewers can generally receive most of the Boston stations as well) will be turning off their analog signals next week.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-11-2009, 10:22 PM:
 
So how does one find out about their local market? I know one of the stations here is going to ride it out until June, but I have no clue about the others and their website doesn't have any information. I really don't want to e-mail them.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-11-2009, 10:39 PM:
 
There's a PDF here

The stations in red are also marked "X" in either the PRE 2/17 column or the ON 2/17 column.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-11-2009, 11:21 PM:
 
I don't see any red local stations, so that means they're all June fanboys?
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-12-2009, 09:51 PM:
 
Yep. June it is for Denver.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-12-2009, 11:20 PM:
 
Heh, well the FCC is challenging a number of stations who want to switch on Feb. 17th to PROVE their market is ready for the change, as well as throwing additional burdens on them.

EDIT: Eugene NBC affiliate KMTR caved to the FCC today. They're now delaying until June. The rest of the local stations will probably be falling in line if they haven't already. And on top of that KMTR is running HD shows in SD tonight and superimposing an FCC-mandated crawl at the top of the image advising everyone of the new date. What a hassle this is for broadcasters who prepared for the drop-dead date of Feb 17th and are ready to go and now they have to change it all up.

story here

You can bet your expired DTV converter box coupons that there are a bunch of full-power TV stations across the United States rushing to meet Federal Communications Commission guidelines for making the analog-to-digital switch early. "Early," of course, now means on or after the old DTV date: Tuesday, February 17. The new Final Day is June 12.

The DTV Delay Act, however, gave the FCC authority to set conditions for letting license holders do the transfer as per the old schedule, more or less. In turn, the Commission has given 368 early birds the green light. But the agency has also told 123 stations that, at this point, "their early termination poses a significant risk of substantial public harm."

Here are the eight requirements that the FCC says these stragglers must fulfill to get a DTV early pass. They've got until Friday the 13th, six pm EST, to file a statement of certification with the Commission that they've met them. In fact, these licenses don't even have to offer some of these services themselves, but they've got to assert that some station in their area will do the job.

At least one nightlight
First, the applicants must show the FCC that, in their Nielsen-defined Designated Market Area (DMA), at least one station will continue to broadcast DTV transition information in analog format for sixty days after February 17, as well as "enhanced nightlight" service: local news and public affairs programming.

But don't confuse this "enhanced nightlight" term with the agency's analog nightlight program, which authorizes stations to continue broadcasting, post DTV hoc, a bare bones message in analog telling stray viewers whose sets still can't pick up digital that they need to get their act together, fast.

Second, this on-air education must include "demonstrations of converter box installations, antenna setups, and other helpful information." Third, it must be broadcast in Spanish and accessible to people with disabilities, providing closed captioning, among other services.

Fourth, the station must show that TV watchers in their signal region will have access to data disclosing areas that could lose coverage thanks to phenomena such as the digital cliff effect (see the last paragraphs of this story). "Such information may include detailed maps," the FCC says, "listings of affected communities, and instructions on how to assess what type of antenna may be necessary to retain or regain the station's digital signal."

Operators standing by
These licenses must also promise to provide viewers with local or toll-free telephone DTV support. "Such assistance," this fifth requirement stipulates, "may be provided jointly with other stations, organizations, and businesses in the area." Sixth, they must offer some kind of consumer "walk in" center to help viewers with set-top converter boxes and demonstrate how they work. They can set this up with others stations or businesses as well.

Seventh, they must show that they are currently and will continue broadcasting DTV-related PSA crawls on their analog signal from February 10 through 17 explaining that the station will drop its analog transmission on February 17. The crawls must be aired five minutes of every hour for the first five days, and 10 minutes of every hour for the final two. They must disclose the FCC's call center number too: 1-888-CALLFCC.

Finally, and rather vaguely, "each station will consider and is encouraged to coordinate with and use community resources to provide consumer outreach and support, including in-home assistance."

Last resort
If some of these signals don't think they can commit to these requirements, they can file a five-page statement explaining why not making the switch on February 17 will result in "extreme economic hardship." But, the FCC warns, it does not anticipate "that many stations will be able to meet the high burden applicable to this showing."

How rigorously will the FCC review these statements of certification? It doesn't look like the agency is going to rush inspectors out to these areas over the weekend to audit them. "Stations certifying to the above conditions are permitted to cease analog operations on February 17, 2009 without further authorization by the Commission," the FCC's Public Notice concludes.

On the other hand, the Commission warns that it will take "appropriate action against stations that certify they will meet the conditions, fail to do so and nevertheless go off the air on February 17, 2009."
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-13-2009, 10:40 AM:
 
It only sounds like the FCC is doing some "C.Y.A." theatrics just so the local TV stations who do shut down analog on Feb. 17 can get all of the heat from viewers not ready for the switch.

Apparently the CBS affiliate in my DMA (KAUZ-TV channel 6 in Wichita Falls) is going to wait until June to do their switch. I guess that will let the three other stations set to turn off analog broadcasts in 4 days to do so without any fear of possible (but improbable) FCC wrath.

KAUZ is currently having technical problems with their DTV transmission equipment. Their DTV signal is on channel 22, running at only 200kW -not enough receive over the air here in Lawton (it would be if it was a VHF channel). Over Dish Network, the KAUZ HD channel often just comes in as a solid yellow screen with some occasional glitches of video. The program guide just says "off air." What's funny is Dish Network lit up KAUZ in HD on the E*12 satellite last November. It added the NBC and FOX affiliates in January; the ABC affiliate isn't up there yet.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 02-13-2009, 01:07 PM:
 
All broadcasters here are digital already, as the mandatory analog switch off is only exactly 1 year away for us.

Still, not a single one of them transmits in HD. They are all SD. All over the country. Only 1 or 2 channels have been experimentally shooting out some HD over the air.

There is virtually no market pressure here to go HD. Absoutely all people I've asked think their new digital image looks just fine, "much better than before", and love it. When they see a (quite compressed) HD channel (currently only 2 from satellite) they go: "Huh? That's all there is to HD? My DVD's at home look almost just the same".

Of course their DVD's at home don't look just the same, but what I mean is that people over here don't care squat about their TV and consider current DVB-T and DVD's plenty for their needs. Many don't even have HD tv's, so it's not like they would notice a difference in the source material/delivery anyway.

Heck, the most popular TV product is the phone companie's broadband TV, a pack of several dozens of standard definition channels at ~2.8Mbps AVC encoded received over the phone line by TCP/IP. Some of the channels look like crap (the ones that have gone through too many boxes and some of them were adding gamma changes or colorspace convertion errors). Others, surprisingly good (for standard definition). I have that thing at home (it's only €3 more a month than regular 6Mbit adsl) and the main advantage is that I can record the stuff directly to my home network hard drive.

The image is "anamorhpically" expanded as they are 480x576 ...

It's not even Standard Definition resolution (720x576) !!!

I should add that our standard definition here, in PAL Europe, is (and has always been) a bit better than in the USA, as our TV is (basically) 720x576 25fps, while being only 720x480 at 30fps in the USA. The "closer to cinema" frame rate means all our movies in PAL DVD have nice bandwidth preservation (i.e. not wasted in 30fps 3:2 pulldowns), no motions artifacts (movies are sped up 1fps, rather than manipulated in anyway, increasing temporal resolution from cinema) and 720x576 in resolution (aprox. 20% better "resolution" than NTSC countries like the USA).

So our DVD's, which usually are also anamorphic, have tradionally looked really good. So now the change to (crappy-over-the-air) HD doesn't really impress people a lot. Not as much as when you move from (inferior) NTSC to HD, certainly. A lot of people here have widescreen analog standard definition 16:9 TV's (crt's) that were in fashion far before digital started as many satellite transmissions were 16:9 (anamorphic standard-def).

So virtually "no HD" for us in Spain. Except on blu-ray, of course. Standard definition digital PAL deemed enough to watch Big Brother by Joe Sixpack by Joe's own popular demand.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-13-2009, 02:27 PM:
 

quote:

---

"each station will consider and is encouraged to coordinate with and use community resources to provide consumer outreach and support, including in-home assistance."

---

That right there tells you the government is involved. There are probably millions of little old ladies and men who would be more than happy to have someone from the t-v station come out and show them how to turn their set on, change the channel etc. Back when I sold TVs, we had a lady who insisted on getting the top of the line set (which had very complex controls) and then just about drove us crazy with post-sale "service calls" because she couldn't get it turned on or off.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-13-2009, 08:42 PM:
 
I'm going to call for some in-home assistance in getting the constant network logos off my screen!

(I'd STILL rather they go back to black-and-white with a clean screen and less than 10 minutes of commercials per hour than hi-def with on-screen crap and 18 minutes of commercials every hour!)
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-15-2009, 03:00 PM:
 
I'm going to be glad once this "DTV transition" is finished for the stations going all-digital in just a couple of days.

The freaking FCC has the TV stations forced to run these very irritating, long winded crawls constantly. It seems like they're popping up every 10 minutes! Assholes.

My brother, who lives in Atlanta, is currently in Daytona Beach, FL watching the Daytona 500 live. He asked me to record the race in HD on my DVR. The race is actually pretty cool to watch in high definition. You get an even better sense how fast these cars are moving. However, it's excruciatingly irritating with how damned often those DTV warning crawls keep popping up. What's worse, the TV station dumps the HD picture down to ass-tastic shit-vision SD every time they run the crawl. Once the crawl is done it takes the doofus at master control at least a minute or two to hit some buttons to enable the HD image again.


They sure don't run the DTV warning crawl over any commercials. Just let the SD crawl stomp on the show.


Because this warning crawl nonsense is so distracting, I may watch the next episode of 24 on Hulu or something rather than put up with that stupid crawl playing 857 times during the Monday evening broadcast.

Anyone in my Nielsen DMA who doesn't get the whole "gotta get a converter box" thing after Tuesday needs a slap across the kisser and booked into a remedial "I don't know how to fucking read or comprehend anything" reading class. Ugh.
 

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Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 02-16-2009, 03:13 PM:
 
Maybe they should designate one station in each area to play a visual and audible announcement for two weeks after the transition..."If you are seeing this message call..." Not that we should need it. I agree anyone not aware of this yet is living under a rock.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-16-2009, 03:56 PM:
 
Throw the switch. Full steam ahead. Clean up the mess later. It'll be cheaper that way rather than sitting here talking about it and holding endless committee meetings to try to figure out how many people know and don't know whatever it is they're supposed to know or not know or whatever.

We still have radios, right? And they still work? And newspapers work? And telephones?

I think word will get around to the folks who for whatever reason haven't figured it out yet, and we'll be able to get them working in due course.

Just do it already.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 02-17-2009, 01:28 AM:
 
"Hey...did something happen to the TV's today? None of the stations seem to be on the air."
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-17-2009, 09:22 AM:
 
Wait until 11:59pm tonight.

Don't know about the Lubbock DMA, but 3 stations in my viewing market are ending analog in a little under 15 hours from now (as of this writing).

Time published an article yesterday stating 600 TV stations were ending analog broadcasts at the end of this day.

There's one obviously good element to the select number of TV stations ending analog as previously scheduled: it should make the folks who have been procrastinating take this issue seriously. If they're suddenly missing a couple or so TV stations after midnight tonight they'll be motivated to act now or very soon rather than merely drag their feet until the days leading up to June 12, hoping for yet another damned government delay.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 02-17-2009, 11:07 AM:
 
The last I heard, the only station in Lubbock holding onto the analog until June was KCBD, the NBC affiliate. The others plan to make the switch.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 02-17-2009, 11:23 AM:
 
The current DTV channel assignments are only temporary.

So, remember that even if you have a DTV converter box already hooked up and working, you'll need to re-scan your channels after midnight tonight since many of the stations, even those delaying turning off their analog tranmitters till June, will be moving their DTV brodcasts to their new 'permanant' channel assignments tomorrow. (June 18)
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-17-2009, 11:37 AM:
 
Actually, roughly 60% of the nation's TV stations are already operating on their permanent DTV channel assignment.

Going by the latest FCC rules regarding the delay, stations broadcasting DTV signals on temporary channel assignments won't be able to move to their permanent positions until after June 12.

That situation is certain to cause even more confusion. It may not be necessary for viewers ready for over the air DTV to perform a channel scan tomorrow. However, viewers in quite a few markets may have to do so after June 12 once those channel assignments get rearranged.

Our ABC affiliate will probably just keep calling itself "channel 7" from here on out even though its post-transition DTV channel assignment is really channel 11. The DTV tuners automatically associate the station's intended channel ID number, even if the actual channel is something else. Still, it's kind of strange. I don't know for certain if our market's NBC, FOX and CBS affiliates will stay put on their UHF assignments or if any will move back to previous VHF space.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-17-2009, 12:28 PM:
 
The only one that turns off today locally is channel 12, which I am surprised still even exists. I checked last night well before midnight and the analog signal was gone and the digital one was present. I called every citizen in Colorado to discuss this, but nobody cared about channel 12.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 02-17-2009, 08:12 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I don't know for certain if our market's NBC, FOX and CBS affiliates will stay put on their UHF assignments or if any will move back to previous VHF space

---

Here in San Francisco, the local ABC station which operates on VHF-Hi Channel7 will continue to operate on that frequency after the final DTV switch.

This totally TOTALLY confuses me since I thought one of the reasons for this whole frickin mess was to free up those frequencies, as well as freqs in the UHF band now occupied by channels 52-69. (not sure about the exact channel numbers. . I'd have to go back and read one of my previous posts, and you know how boring that is!.

But now I'm confused about why some are staying on VHF.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-17-2009, 08:24 PM:
 
It doesn't take nearly as much wattage to transmit an effective DTV signal on VHF as it does on UHF.

Our ABC affiliate has its DTV transmitter in Grandfield, OK set at a full power level of 138kW. They're broadcasting on channel 11, even though they'll still be calling themselves channel 7. The FOX affiliate in Wichita Falls, KJTL, broadcasts from the same tower in Grandfield. Their analog channel was already on UHF, channel 18. Their DTV signal is on channel 15. Since it's still UHF they're having to broadcast at 1000kW.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-18-2009, 12:13 AM:
 
Well, three of our local stations weren't kidding. They followed through on their threat of executing those analog signals.

It was mildly fun to watch KSWO's analog signal go off the air. They interrupted Blues Traveler performing on the Jimmy Kimmel Live show to run a 1 minute countdown. When it expired the signal simply went to snow. No static slate stating, "you need a DTV converter box, dude." No fireworks. No celebration. Just snow -which can allow the demons from Poltergeist to invade homes everywhere.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-18-2009, 07:26 AM:
 
WHO shut down their analog and KDSM went into nite lite mode at midnight with no fanfare, scroll, or warning whatsoever.

WHO-13 went back on the air in digital form about 2am. Their temporary channel 19 stayed on until then. I had to rescan this morning to get the "new" Channel 13.1, but all is well.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-18-2009, 08:33 AM:
 
Everyone in Sacramento's still on the air. Channel 20 in San Francisco and 36 in San Jose were supposed to go off, but I'm still getting a signal from them but they aren't coming in strongly enough to see what they're showing, if anything.

Found a couple online videos, here's one that sounds like someone in Orlando had a party watching 3 stations die:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvMKlP7brXY
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-18-2009, 09:55 AM:
 
Were there any interesting signoffs (national anthem, etc.), or did the stations just cut to static?
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-18-2009, 10:18 AM:
 
I have Dish. All of my channels are still on the air. I couldn't give a flying crap about the antique analog stuff going away.

It's a new era! Go Digital!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-18-2009, 11:05 AM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

---

Were there any interesting signoffs (national anthem, etc.), or did the stations just cut to static?

---

quote: Jesse Skeen

---

I think one of the first successful TV transmissions was a Felix the Cat doll

---

Experemental NBC station W2XBS used a Felix The Cat doll
slowly rotating on a turntable during test brodcasts in 1929


Several private individuals and institutions claim they
have the "original" Felix figure used in the NBC tests.
This one was on display in a museum in Europe-

Just like Dorothy's ruby slippers, I don't think anyone really
knows for sure what happened to the actual original item
and many people lay claim to ownership.

Only Felix knows for sure!

"Life is just a bag of tricks"- Felix T.C.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-08-2009, 12:17 AM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

---

A couple of them showed stations playing the national anthem and one ended with an Indian-head test pattern (a nice touch).

---

quote: Frank Angel

---

Does anyone know the origins of the Indian Head test pattern?

---

quote: Frank Angel

---

I am old enuf to remember was a commercial station out of NJ that only ran old silent Farmer Gray cartoons

---

Hahahaha- - I grew up on Long Island, and I'm old enough to remember that station and those silent Farmer Gray cartoons too! I can also remember either that station or another one running "Flip The Frog" cartoons and old 16mm US Dept Of Agriculture films incessently.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-11-2009, 05:02 AM:
 
Looks like it's really going to happen this time!
I've got Friday off, so my TV will be on starting late Thursday night up til the bitter end, and I'll be a couch potato one last time. My reception isn't quite good enough here to record, but my dad who has a roof antenna is going to try and record a few stations' final moments on DVD. I'm debating whether to bring over one of my VHS decks since that can record the SAP audio (which sort of got used in later years, but never to its full potential) on the linear soundtrack with the main audio on the Hi-Fi- can't do that with DVD.

Both KCRA 3 and KTXL 40 will go off at 9AM- I'll be watching 40 since it comes in good here but 3 comes in crappy with an indoor antenna. The REAL KTXL's already been dead for over 20 years though. KOVR-13 goes at 6, and KXTV-10 is going all the way til 11:59 so Nightline will probably be their last show (they were a CBS station originally and 13 was ABC- but channel 13 has spent more time broadcasting CBS's logo than channel 10 ever did, and vice versa with ABC.)

I don't know when channel 58's going off- they've been the worst station in the area for a long time (they were the first local station to start using a bug) but it would be nice to see them go off the air since I watched and taped them signing on the air in 1986- they had an hour-long special showing all the cool stuff they'd be showing, and before that they ran test patterns with music in STEREO which I've also got part of on tape.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-11-2009, 06:56 AM:
 
Our old trusty analog PAL is also being switched off in the whole country by the end of the month. All programs now displaying an (annonying) message every 10 minutes: "This channel will no longer be seen blah-blah-blah".

Digital coverage has finally been "fixed" in your usual hurry lately, so now finally most people get the signal even in most remote places.

Digital convertion boxes have always abounded since the digital thing started several years ago, so I doubt anybody hasn't picked up the 25€ boxes from the supermarkets by now. They were even giving them away with other purchases in newstands, etc.

Still an issue with some "neighbourhood associations" in condo buildings and the like that may need work done on their (distributed amplified) antenna installations and haven't done squat about it yet. I have the feeling they will in a couple of weeks

Every single network has opted for several (new) channels at 580i transmissions (roughly equivalent to what we had before), so no HD over the air except in a couple of cities as an experimental thing. HD broadcasting remains a satellite-only thing (number of HD channels offered has increased from 2 to 4 or so).

Phone companies have plans to roll out the Fiber-at-home thing to the whole country within the next couple of years and offer HD TV transmissions ... so we'll see what happens.

But Average Joe is pretty happy with the 580i signal, so there. Most people don't care squat about HD and blu-ray hasn't made much of a stride around here either.

TV programming sucks anyway, so no point in watching Big Brother in HD to be honest ...
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-12-2009, 04:54 AM:
 
3 stations right now are showing infomercials during their last few hours- nice to know they're letting analog go out in style. I've got a digital tuner but only because it's built in to the DVD recorder I bought (which I use to transfer very old tapes). Don't have an HDTV yet but when I finally do get one it won't be used for watching broadcast TV in its current state.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-12-2009, 10:58 AM:
 
KAUZ-TV channel 6, CBS, in Wichita Falls, TX was the last major network TV station in our viewing market to broadcast in analog. Our ABC, FOX and NBC affiliates switched back in February. KAUZ shut off their analog broadcast at the end of May.

I'm not sure why KAUZ switched to DTV-only then. During the same week Dish Network added HD locals service for our market to their new Ciel-2 satellite in the 129° orbital position. The same HD local channels were already available on the E*12 satellite at 61.5°, but required many viewers to add a second dish to their rooftop. Now Dish Network customers can get complete HD service from a single dish. DirecTV doesn't carry local channels at all in the Wichita Falls/Lawton viewing market, no SD or HD. The only drawback with Dish' service is they don't carry the ABC affiliate in Lawton in HD, just SD only. For HD you have to get the channel over the air or subscribe to a couple cable companies that offer it. That ABC station already gave Dish permission to retransmit its HD local channel, but Dish is dragging its feet for some unknown reason.

I'm wondering about any changes in broadcasting signal strength or even changes in channel assignment after midnight tonight. AFAIK, the DTV stations in my market are already at their final channel assignments. I may redo my channel scan just in case. Currently I can't pick up KAUZ in Wichita Falls over the air. Their signal isn't strong enough. Maybe that will change by tomorrow.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-12-2009, 03:37 PM:
 
Has anyone seen any good signoffs? National Anthems? Vintage (or modern) test patterns? Have any stations shown a "history of this station" piece?

I find it sad that most stations seem to just be cutting to static, rather than doing something special for the occasion.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-13-2009, 12:11 AM:
 
The only one I saw just clipped it off in the middle of a commercial. What a way to end 50+ years of broadcasting on the same frequency than to have the last thing you show to be half of a commercial for Dealin' Doug's Used Car Lot.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-13-2009, 01:04 AM:
 
Well, none of the Boston stations bothered to do anything special. Boo. Hiss.

Youtube has a few good ones from around the country. WFAA,
WKRG,
WTHR,
WRTV,
and WFSB all did classy signoffs.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-13-2009, 01:40 AM:
 
Nobody did anything fancy in our viewing market. The typical thing was just a show of color bars and a countdown warning from 1 minute or merely 10 seconds that analog broadcasts would end. And then the glory of snow.

And then that little dead blond girl from Poltergeist could walk around your living room saying, "they're here."
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-13-2009, 03:01 AM:
 
KOVR in Sacramento had live video at the transmitter with the camera on some meters which gradually moved to the left, and the signal gradually faded out along with them. Hopefully I'll have a copy of it to put online soon.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-13-2009, 09:25 AM:
 
You can't really blame the stations for not doing anything 'special' to mark the end of analog.

1. The majority of people are already watching digital and wouldn't see it.

2. They already had huge expenses keeping the analog signal going longer than originally planned.

3. The people who WOULD see the signoff are probably drunk, or otherwise too busy to be paying close attention anyway, or if they were actually watching, they would wonder why "their program" got interrupted for this dumb tribute thing.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-13-2009, 10:40 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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I have two TVs that have automatic channel changers (will switch channels at select times of the day, if you have a set schedule)...

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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They already had huge expenses keeping the analog signal going longer than originally planned.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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You can't really blame the stations for not doing anything 'special' to mark the end of analog.

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quote: Bruce Hansen

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Channel 46 has left their analog xmitter on the air, running a loop explaining what is going on, and talking about converters, etc. They were still at it as of a couple of hours ago.

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KSL has kept the night light on here with that same loop running and it's still on right now but at very reduced power, probably 1/4 power as the picture is quite noisy.

Mark
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-17-2009, 12:10 PM:
 
In Boston, WHDH (channel 7) was supposed to switch its digital broadcast from UHF to VHF after the changeover, but they have apparently had some serious reception issues in some areas. At last check, they were back on their UHF digital channel. WBZ (channel 4) and WCVB (channel 5) are nightlighting on their analog channels. Picture quality on all of the digital channels is excellent, even for stations that were marginal in analog.

There are more signoffs posted on Youtube. Judging by the videos that have been posted, most stations just cut to static. The second most popular approach was to have the station's engineer or a retired engineer or station personality power down the transmitter on the air. Only a handful of stations did something that resembled a standard signoff (national anthem, etc.). Fewer still ran any type of test pattern (current or vintage). Such a waste of a great opportunity.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 06-20-2009, 05:54 PM:
 
So in an effort to economize I gave up satellite TV for over the air TV. I went out and bought a nice antenna that attaches to the side of my house. I got 27 digital channels and they were very good and rock steady. I did this in February.

Then they finally turn off the analogue channels and promise to up the power on the digital channels. What happens? Now I get spotty coverage and my channels freeze up and sometimes I get no signal. They only thing different from February is that there are leaves on the trees. Can leaves disrupt digital TV signals?

The good news I have rediscovered the library and reading.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-20-2009, 07:37 PM:
 
Ian, I hear ya! Same issue here. In fact when channels 7 and 9 turned off their analog, the very next day my reception quality of both of those channels DECREASED when I rescanned! Now all of them have shut off and nothing has improved. I don't know why they are afraid of full power. If this is full power, then that is just sad. DTV is quite pathetic. I guess they don't want us watching.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-20-2009, 08:58 PM:
 
Here in Phoenix, the Fox and NBC affiliates moved to VHF during the switchover. Those were the two stations that came in crystal clear before the switch and now I get nothing on my interior antenna. I guess no one thought ahead that 90% of the buildings here are wrapped in stucco and chicken wire. Dumbasses.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-20-2009, 09:44 PM:
 
Weird. I had the exact opposite experience--I never could get a watchable picture with analog in my apartment and didn't have any interest in TV for years (or a set). With digital, I can get an excellent picture from all of the local stations, including the subchannels. DTV was definitely a win for me. There are some weird motion and/or scaling artifacts and sync issues to be sure, but the digital signal is usable here where the analog signal was not. I'm using a standard indoor antenna.

Now if only the programming were a bit better. I can listen to NPR news on the radio for half an hour and get more useful information than I can from watching local TV news for a full hour.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-20-2009, 09:54 PM:
 
I meant to say that those two stations moved their digital signal from UHF to VHF and went from great reception to my-tv-doesn't-even-see-the-carrier. All of the other stations were the opposite. Not that I watch tv anyway, but local news is occasionally of interest.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-21-2009, 01:06 AM:
 
I thought that ALL digital TV was required to be in the UHF band and that the VHF frequencies were reserved for "emergency services" or some such nonsense.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-21-2009, 12:09 PM:
 

quote:

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Reception problems linger after DTV transition

by Peter Svensson - Jun. 16, 2009 02:22 PM
Associated Press

NEW YORK - The shutdown of U.S. analog TV service on Friday appears to have gone relatively smoothly, but as expected, a lot of viewers are having problems getting the stations they want.

The problems have ensnared even the technologically sophisticated.

Wally Grotophorst in Hamilton, Va., got a "digital" antenna for his digital TV last year. But on Friday, he lost the Washington-based ABC and CBS stations, channels 7 and 9, which he could pick up digitally before the transition.

That's because those stations, like dozens of others, switched their digital signals from the UHF frequency band to the VHF band as they cut their analog signals Friday. But Grotophorst's antenna, like many others branded as "digital" and sold over the past few years, was designed only for UHF stations. Nearly all TV stations were using the UHF band for the digital broadcasts until Friday.

"This moving down to the VHF spectrum was news. The stations didn't advertise the fact," Grotophorst said.

He's now regretting that he recycled his old rooftop VHF antenna.

Officials for those stations had no immediate comment.

There are TV antennas that can receive both UHF and VHF bands. In the indoor version, these have long extendable poles - the "rabbit ears" - for VHF reception and a loop for UHF.

Brett Whitten, a technology consultant in Philadelphia, lost the ABC-affiliated Channel 6 for the same reason. He was unsuccessful in attempts to improvise a VHF antenna out of wire, helped by instructions he found online.

According to a Monday evening newscast, that station was talking to the Federal Communications Commission to see if it could increase its output power. That could help with reception, at least for those who have VHF antennas.

The FCC said it is examining reports of signal loss by viewers of some stations in Chicago, Philadelphia and New York.

The FCC said more than 20 percent of the 317,450 callers to its help line on Friday had problems receiving at least one station, making it the most frequent problem after converter-box setup and requests for converter-box coupons.

Those converter boxes allow older, analog sets to view digital signals after Friday's cutoff, following years of planning, of the transmission technology in use since the days of Milton Berle and Howdy Doody. The digital signals are more efficient, freeing up airwaves for cell phones and other services.

If a station is missing, viewers should first try to force the converter box or digital TV to "rescan" the airwaves for channels that moved to new frequencies on Friday.

For those who aren't helped by that, the FCC put out a new advisory Monday recommending "double rescanning." That involves disconnecting the antenna from the box or TV, rescanning, turning off the box or TV, then turning it back on, connecting the antenna and scanning one more time. The procedure can clear the box or TV's memory of saved channel information that is now incorrect, the commission said.

All full-power stations have now shut down their analog signals. Some low-power stations and rural relays known as "translators" are still broadcasting in analog.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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I thought that ALL digital TV was required to be in the UHF band and that the VHF frequencies were reserved for "emergency services" or some such nonsense.

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Channel 52 through 69 are what is going away. This is what the cell phone and internet companies want. VHF is still for TV, but low band VHF (2 - 6) has impulse noise problems, and skip problems that were an annoyance in analog, but totally destructive to digital. I have read about a couple of stations going back to ch. 6 for digital, so it may be far enough away from the problems to be usable for digital. No one, such as the cell phone companies, wants VHF because of the problems.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-01-2009, 11:19 AM:
 
Another problem, at least here in the San Francisco
Bay Area, is that many of the stations are temporarily
operating at reduced power from 'stand-by' antennas
at lower elevations on Sutro Tower, the main transmitting
point for this area, while new antennas for the digital
transmitters are being installed at the top of the tower.

The combination of lower elevation and reduced power
has caused reception loss for many areas outside The City.
One of the reasons given for the low power operation is
to avoid exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

The process of moving all the stations to the new
antennas is expected to take at least thru October Y2k9.

Anyone interested can see diagrams of the old and
new tower configurations
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-01-2009, 11:27 AM:
 
Another problem, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area,
is that many of the stations are temporarily operating at reduced
power from 'stand-by' antennas at lower elevations on Sutro Tower,
the main transmitting point for this area, while new antennas for
the digital transmitters are being installed at the top of the tower.

The combination of lower elevation and reduced power has caused
reception loss for many areas outside The City.

One of the reasons given for the low power operation is to avoid
exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

The process of moving all the stations to the new antennas is
expected to take at least thru October Y2k9.

Anyone interested can see diagrams of the old and new tower
configurations At This Link

Sutro Tower At Sunrise. Transmitting Antennas Are 1811ft ASL

(I took this early one morning on a hill not far from my house)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2009, 03:02 PM:
 

quote: Jim Cassedy was the last to post

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One of the reasons given for the low power operation is to avoid
exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Personally I don't think the Government shouda handed out free coupons to anyone that wanted them...

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