quote: Bobby Henderson

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If you mistakenly buy a cable that only supports HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 features you may be limited from using newer Blu-ray oriented features like deep color, 1080p/24 frame rates and next-gen audio format support (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, high bit rate LPCM).

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Recently, HDMI Licensing, LLC announced that cables would be tested as Standard or High-Speed cables.

Standard (or “category 1”) cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 75Mhz, which is the equivalent of a 1080i signal.
High Speed (or “category 2”) cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 340Mhz, which is the highest bandwidth currently available over an HDMI cable and can successfully handle 1080p signals including those at increased color depths and/or increased refresh rates. High-Speed cables are also able to accommodate higher resolution displays, such as WQXGA cinema monitors (resolution of 2560 x 1600).

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Many people are worried, when buying HDMI cable, about the spec version of the cable in question. Is it the latest spec version? Will it support all the features of the devices it's hooked to? Most of the fears and doubts associated with this question are unfounded, but there are some interesting issues with regard to HDMI spec version, and we'll sort those out here.

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We're often asked whether, if one is just running a short (say, 6 foot) length of HDMI cable from one device to another, without switches, couplers, relays and whatnot, there will be any quality upgrade in sound or picture from buying a higher-quality HDMI cable, or whether one should just go with something reasonably-made and economical. The answer is that, at short lengths, in the vast majority of circumstances, all non-defective HDMI cables will perform equally well (and no, it doesn't matter what spec version it is); the signal is digital and the devices don't know whether they're hooked up with a four-dollar cable or something better or pricier.

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The short-short-short "answer" is: for a short length, any reasonable, non-defective cable is good, and they can be as little as $3 and still be "perfect" and good quality.

Most cables are cat2 capable whether tested, certified, or whatnot, at those lengths. You may find some really crappy generics that are not, but that would be a matter of bad luck, as good cat2 generics abound. If you buy a non-generic or, even better, a truly brand-name certified one, then you are guaranteed "perfect" performance, no matter if the price is high or low.

Only time when cable "quality" (or rather, mostly cable gauge and shielding) come into play, like in any other digital high bandwidth application, is in long runs. Say stuff over 15 feet. Then you may want to start worrying (a bit) and look into it a bit closer. Still, no need for cables up to about 30' to be expensive at all, and certainly not above $100 for just about any reason whatsoever.

Except marketing reasons, of course. Then you can be silly enough to spend $1000 in a piece of cable and tell all your neighbours about it (altough I would be ashamed-silent rather than boasting about how stupid I was).

This place carries cheap cables convinienly:

http://www.meritline.com/dvi-digital-cabel.html

There are many places like that. I've bought japanese media and generic asian cables from them. No complains with either (on the contrary).

[ 02-14-2009, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Julio Roberto ]
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-14-2009, 01:01 PM:
 
I am using both Monoprice and BlueJeans cables with no problems, or even noticeable differences in operation.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-14-2009, 02:42 PM:
 
Thank you for all of the useful information, guys

I have been looking at some very nice HD sets at Costco and was just amazed how reasonable the prices are now. I saw a nice 40" 1080p Toshiba priced at around $895.00. There were also Samsung, Panasonic and other brands that were cheaper because of smaller screens with a 720p display. I think there was also a Vizio 40" 1080p for about $795.00. How is the quality and reliability of Vizio? My brother has a beautiful Sony with a huge 1080p screen over 50" wide but I do not need anything like that. I will be happy with a 32" or 40" screen and was wondering how important it is to get one that has a 1080p picture. I am partial to a 1080p because it is considered the yield the best picture but was told it was not too important with screens measuring #32' inches or smaller because most people's eyes will not be able to see the difference. Is that true?

Please keep the information coming.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-14-2009, 03:12 PM:
 
Viewing distance plays a big part on whether it's worth it to pay more for 1080p resolution in a smaller TV.

If you're watching a TV with a diagonal size of less than 36"-40" at distances of more than 6'-8' then 1280 X 720 would certainly seem sufficient to get the job done.

I'm viewing my 52" Sony Bravia XBR4 TV at a distance of about 7' and I can see the differences in 720p resolution material versus 1080-based programming.

I'll also say there is more going on with a good quality HDTV set than mere resolution capability alone. You have to consider the television's refresh rate (60Hz, 120Hz, etc.). The quality of the TV's color engine and ability to be adjusted is pretty important. How many HDMI ports does the TV have and what features does it support via HDMI? Deep color? 1080p/24 video support? Does the TV have PC connectivity, LAN support, etc.?

No TV is going to be 100% perfect. You just have to weigh what features you find important. If you don't need certain other bells and whistles you'll be able to save quite a bit of money.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-14-2009, 03:34 PM:
 
Bobby,

The sets on display at outlets such as Best Buy, the soon to close Circuit City, and Costco has their sets adjusted and displayed with very impressive picture quality. On the other hand, the HD sets at Wal*Mart and even Sam's Club regardless of the price are displayed with a picture that look like shit or sub standard. If I am interested in getting the best picture & sound quality possible and plan to view HD movies from my BD player as well as HD television from a HD cable receiver & DVR box, will I need more than two HDMI inputs on the television set? The $895.00 Toshiba and even the Vizio 1080p sets are very reasonably priced at Costco but do they lack functions that I might need that come with more expensive sets? As far as the picture quality displayed on these two sets, they are almost identical to the more expensive sets displayed at Costco.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-14-2009, 04:21 PM:
 
Multiple HDMI inputs are important if you're using an older AV receiver lacking HDMI connection. My TV has 3 HDMI inputs. I have my PS3 and Dish Network ViP722 receiver connected direct to the TV via HDMI. I'm running optical cables alone to my old Yamaha receiver. For over the air antenna stuff, I'm feeding an optical cable into the CD input on my receiver -and I get the Dolby Digital 5.1 broadcast support running it that way.

Anyone with a new receiver with HDMI inputs and HDMI monitor output won't need a HDTV with lots of inputs on the back.

120Hz refresh and motion enhancement functions mark a big line of separation from more expensive LCD televisions versus more affordable televisions found in stores like Wal-Mart. Sony's newest Bravia XBR7 model supports a 240Hz refresh rate. I think it's the XBR6 which features LED back-lighting.

In general the LCD and plasma televisions costing less than $1000 represent HDTV technology at least 2 or more generations behind the TVs commanding $2000 and higher prices.

Oh, by the way I think Wal-Mart's HD video feed to their monitors is pretty heavily data compressed. That's one source of the crappy picture problem. The overhead fluorescent lighting common to those stores is another problem. Factor in the possibility of customers monkeying around with TV settings -or that they're never adjusted at all.

Stores like Best Buy go the other way, setting pictures to cartoonish "vivid" settings, turning on all the motion enhancement stuff and on and on.

Ultimately you need to be able to play around with some of the settings on the TV before you buy it. That's what we did when a friend of mine bought his Samsung Series 7 52" LCD HDTV. We had the folks at Circuit City hook up a Blu-ray player to it and we checked out a lot of the settings. Once we were satisfied that it was a great TV set then the sale was made. Going to that trouble shouldn't be a problem especially if the customer is spending upwards of $3000.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-14-2009, 05:10 PM:
 
Bobby,

Why is it important to have more HDMI inputs as possible on a HD TV when I will run the audio from my BD player to my old Denon receive with an optical cable like I am doing now and HDMI 'out' from the BD player to HDMI 'in' on the TV. The 2nd HDMI cable will be from the Cable HD DVR box HDMI 'out' to the HDMI 'in' on the TV. Although it would be nice to have as much HDMI inputs on the TV, why will I need more than two inputs if I do not plan to add a video game unit or any other devices that require an HDMI cable? Since my receiver does not have an HDMI input because of it's age and my BD player does not have an analogue output that will allow me to connect to the existing 7.1 input on the receiver, why will I need another HDMI cable?

-Claude
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 02-14-2009, 07:19 PM:
 
Bobby makes very good points up there.

Almost all of today's TV's are of really nice picture quality. As you said, just walk into a retailer and you'll be amazed at 95% of the TV's on display.

And full HD resolution ones are now hardly more expensive (if at all) than 720p ones, so I would always recommend going for the straight full HD, as it is affordeable and more resolution can't hurt, right?

After that, it's a matter of personal taste and price. My parents bought last year the very top of the line Sony 46" traditional LCD fullHD, which had a suggested retail price of €4500, over $5800, but that really sold for €3000 (still $3800).

Well, my daughter bought a $1500 42" traditional LCD fullHD philips one.

Now, I've worked on TV (and a couple of movies on film) professionally and done telecine transfers, projected dailies, etc. My job demanded that I always observed images for defects, glitches, artifacts, and whatever.

I can tell you I like my daughter's Philips MUCH and undoubtely better than my parent's Sony.

Since you have a Costco nearby, you can look at their web site and read about the specs on TV. Then choose between a couple of models and go to the store to check them out in person.

http://www.costco.com/Common/

If you are unsure about the Vizio brand, they have a very similarly spec'ed TV on the website by JVC, if you trust the brand more, for the same price.

Without really looking much into it, I would give a good look and consideration to the 42" fullHD Philips they have there for $899 or the $999 46" fullHD Toshiba.

Large brands that have good quality/price ratio, at least in Europe, are: Sharp, Toshiba, LG/Philips, Samsung. Brands that are overpriced here: Thomson, Sony.

At the end, most current TV's have all the features you want and at least 3 HDMI inputs so you can plug in TV setop cable boxes, disc players (DVD, blu-ray), consoles, etc. There are external boxes to manage more HDMI inputs if you ever run out of them, but it's a bit of a mess. But the more inputs, always the better in case you ever need them.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-14-2009, 07:39 PM:
 
It doesn't sound to me like you'd really need more than two HDMI inputs for your situation, though having an extra input for the unexpected cool new device down the road wouldn't hurt. But I imagine you'll eventually replace your Denon with an HDMI in/out receiver, then you'll only need one anyway.

I'll back Julio's praise about Phillips LCD too. Wife #1 and I bought one in 2007 over the Vizio because it had better reviews for its picture quality and it just plain looked sharper (style, not necessarily picture). It's now my bedroom TV, and it's been great. They're showing up in some Marriott properties I've stayed at lately too. (A slight disclaimer...I guess they turned manufacture over to Funai last year, but they're being produced at the same plants under the same specs...)
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-15-2009, 01:56 PM:
 

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa

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Why is it important to have more HDMI inputs as possible on a HD TV when I will run the audio from my BD player to my old Denon receive with an optical cable like I am doing now and HDMI 'out' from the BD player to HDMI 'in' on the TV.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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With older receivers you often have to send the video signal from the HD device (Blu-ray player, HD cable box, HD satellite receiver, etc.) directly to the HDTV set. Most people with HDTV setups have more than one device providing HD-quality programming.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Yeah, but a switcher that supports multiple HDMI inputs, optical audio, etc. would not be cheap.

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I think HDMI-only switchers are about $80-$100.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-15-2009, 08:39 PM:
 
Yeah, $80 or $100. But why even spend that at all? What the hell problem does spending that money solve? Nothing.

I'm doing just fine with running HDMI cables into my HDTV set and audio cables into my receiver. Why the hell do I need to waste money on a 3rd party device to only do the same freaking thing? Seems very stupid and wasteful to me. The only thing I need to do with my current setup is change things once I'm able to buy a new 7.1 channel HDMI-equipped AV receiver. Until then, I'm sticking with feeding video cables into my TV and audio cables into my receiver. If I needed a 4th, 5th or 6th HDMI signal input then maybe something like a third party HDMI switcher would be worth the expense. But not until then.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-15-2009, 09:41 PM:
 
I tend to agree. So long as the cable is not defective and it is 15-feet or less...most any cable will do.

Over 15-feet...the cable's construction plays a big factor on getting the signal to the display. I've seen SEVERAL cables (including "Monster" I might add) that did not do well on the 40+ foot run!

As to 1080p...most any cable will do that as 1080p/24 has been common for awhile. The key to the newer generation cables are that they are 1080p/60 certified. It is all a matter of bandwidth.

We use Extron cables and I've found them to be quite excellent. Not only to they work (primary function)...they also have really good connectors and don't tend to fall out. They are neither bargain basement cheap nor are they Monster cable insanely expensive. Extron has two grades now...their orignal and now the HDMI 1.3 (Cat 2) with refresh rates up to 120Hz certified.

Steve
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 02-15-2009, 09:47 PM:
 
Yeah, we've run lots of Extron back in good old analog times And another local spanish company that did excelent RF equipment and cables.

About external HDMI switches and such, there is no need whatsoever for them to be expensive.

For $24.99 including shipping you can have this HDM 1.3a -compatible one which includes 3 free HDMI cables and a remote control:

http://www2.meritline.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=33053&SEName=hdmi-v1-3-hdcp-3-ports-mini-switch-with-3-pcs-of-hdmi -cable

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3x1 HDMI mini switcher that routes high definition video (in multiple resolutions up to 1080p) and digital audio from any one of the three sources to display unit. Aside from the manual switching, the switching can also done via the IR remote that is provided with the unit. The compact design eliminates the bulk of an HDMI switcher while still having the same functionality.

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