Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: HD set up question

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-18-2009, 02:06 PM:

I will finally be picking up my first HD set this weekend but it will not be the set I was planning to get. I really wanted a set with a larger picture but because of budget consideration, I will pick up a set with a screen size smaller than thirty inch. It is a Samsung with full 1080p with two HDMI inputs. The set will only be temporary until perhaps this summer when I will replace it with a larger set. The question I have is the set up. Right now, my Blu Ray player is hooked up directly to my Denon receiver that does not have any HDMI inputs with a Optical Digital cable for the sound and a Video RCA cable for the picture. The video and audio cable from my DVR is also connected to my receiver.

All I know right now is to connect a HDMI cable from the BD player and a HD DVR to the set. I assume the optical cable from the BD to the receiver connection remain the same as well as the audio from the HD DVR to the receiver with the RCA cables. According to the manual, I will have to make an on screen adjustment that my video will be from the HDMI output to the TV, is that right? In addition to all that, I will also have to readjust my ability to watch wide screen images on a standard screen to a 16X9 display. That will be no problem because I know how to do that. Is everything I had mentioned correct or do I need to do more?

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-18-2009, 03:45 PM:

I would feed the HDMI cables from the Blu-ray player and HD DVR directly into the TV set.

Use optical audio cables to connect the Blu-ray player and HD DVR to your Denon receiver.

Some HDMI-equipped devices (such as Playstation 3) can auto-detect the best settings for your TV and apply them. Others may require you to choose 720p, 1080i or 1080p manually.

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 03-18-2009, 03:51 PM:

For devices that only output 1080i or 720p, which is the better option for a 1080p display? I'd assume it 1080i, correct?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-18-2009, 04:04 PM:

If it's a small screen sometimes 720p works better. We have a modest sized LCD-TV on the wall in our conference room. During a company party I hooked my PS3 to it and got better results selecting 720p than 1080i. With the 1080i setting the TV had a strange flicker to it. I'm sure this will vary from one model to the next.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-18-2009, 07:23 PM:

Bobby,

Costco where I plan to pick up a 1080p Samsung HDTV has a Sony with a 720p display with a slightly larger screen. I prefer that to the Samsung but was deterred by the the fact it was not 1080p. The price for both is about the same and so is the picture quality. Should I get the Sony instead?

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-18-2009, 10:02 PM:

I would probably still get the 1080p Samsung TV. Sure, you won't see the benefits of 1080p at typical viewing distances in a medium sized living room. However, smaller televisions can be useful as secondary TVs that are viewed at closer distances in kitchens, bedrooms or even home offices with the TV doubling as a computer monitor.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-21-2009, 03:03 PM:

I finally bought a HDTV. Not the screen size I had hope to buy due to budget constraint but one that is more than adequate for my need. It is a 26 inch Samsung and yes, 1080p! I was also able to buy a set of two eight foot long HDMI cables for about $49.00. After buying my set and cables at Costco on Thursday and setting it up yesterday morning, I was at Best Buy that afternoon and made a interesting discovery. Almost all of the sets larger than thirty inch was 1080p but screen sizes smaller were not including all of the Samsung they had on display. All of the models with the same size screen as mine with a 720p display also cost about $50.00 more than what I paid that has 1080p. I can see the intention of Best Buy and stores like them to carry set with 1080p only on larger screen models and not the small stuff because they can make more money from HD sales from people looking for a set that has it. I guess it pays to have Retailers like Costco and Sam's Club that offers consumers what they want at better prices.

Setting up my HD set and my new HDDVR was easy and I did not have to make any changes to my Blu Ray player after it was set up to display a wide screen image on my standard television set. The only problem I encountered was the use of the HTMI cable with my HDDVR. After consulting with my cable company, they told me some people have problem with HDMI and suggested that I used the RBG cable they had provided and I did and everything worked great. In a way that is wonderful because I now have an extra HDMI input on the set I could use for something else. I do not know if there is anything I can do but the only thing I notice when I play old movies with a 1,33:1 aspect ration is an image that fills the entire screen. All the pictures with a scope ratio look normal. Even PINOCCHIO looks different. It is still windowboxed (BLack Borders all around the picture). Instead of a 1,33:1 ratio, I am getting a picture that look like it is !, 85:1. Is there a way I can correct this problem and see view scope pictures in their proper ratio?

I am more than pleased with my new Samsung HD set and thank you guys for insisting that I get one that has a 1080p display. I can truly see the difference especially BARAKA that looks like I am watching it in it's original 70mm format. What an awesome picture!

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-21-2009, 05:50 PM:

I guess I'm a little confused about what is causing certain movies to appear window-boxed.

Check the video output settings on your HD DVR and Blu-ray player. Make sure they're not trying to send a 480p based image. The Blu-ray player should be set at 1080p output, if the HDMI connection didn't make it change to that setting automatically. The HD DVR should be sending 720p and/or 1080i imagery. My Dish Network ViP722 DVR has to be manually set for either 720p or 1080i. It doesn't have native HD signal pass through. Certain networks like ESPN, FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p while most others broadcast in 1080i.

Also make sure the TV is set in the proper picture mode. For HD content it should be set in a "normal," "standard" or "full" mode. The verbiage Samsung uses may vary. Most new HDTV sets have two more stretch and zoom modes for hiding the black bars on pillar-boxed standard definition video and letter-boxed movies.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-21-2009, 06:40 PM:

Bobby,

I did not check the output on my Blu Ray player for 1080p playback because the image from the BDs I playyed last night all look gorgeous. Is it possible that I am marveling at a 720p picture because the player is now in that setting and I have small screen? i will check my BD player when I go home this evening. If it is not in the 1080p setting that is wonderful because the picture will be better after I had made the setting correction. By the way, the Panasonic BD35 player I have is fantastic because the uploading of a standard DVD image to 1080p is just wonderful! The picture quality now look a hell of a lot better than from my old TV.

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-21-2009, 08:33 PM:

Chances are the Panasonic BD player is automatically adjusting itself to 1080p output based on the data it exchanges with your TV. But it would be a good idea to double check the setting.

DVRs may not do the same auto-adjust trick when connected to the TV via HDMI cables. You're stuck with manually adjusting the settings when using component video cables.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-21-2009, 09:23 PM:

Bobby,

I saw parts of a beautiful locally produced show in HD last night on our CBS affiliated station, KGMB and it was sharp and look like one would expect as a true HD image. I guess that means my HDDVR is producing a HD image. The HD image also fills the entire screen.

-Cllaude

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-22-2009, 01:30 PM:

After checking the setting on my Blu Ray player last night, I was suppose to change the aspect ratio after all. The player was set to play movies in the full wide screen aspect ratio on a standard television set and that was the reason I was getting a wider than normal picture on my new HD 16X9 screen. Walt Disney's PINOCCHIO now look normal with black borders only on the right and left after I had made the correction. The only problem I still have is my DVDs with a full 1,35:1 aspect ratio is still showing up full screen. The player is most likely reading the disc as anamorphic enhanced and stretching the picture.

-Claude

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-22-2009, 02:48 PM:

make sure your tv is playing back in the full screen mode not the just or stretch or zoom modes. A 1.33 images should have the black bars on the side, 1.78/1.85 should fill the whole screen and 2.35 should have thinner black bars on the top and bottom.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-24-2009, 06:56 PM:

I forgot to mention it when I had started this thread about setting up my new Samsung 26 inch 1080p HDTV. In addition to the HDTV, remote Control with batteries, quick set up instructions, Power and other cables, the large carton also came with a disc. The heading on the disc says SYNC MASTER and there is a list of three content on it. The first one says USERS GUIDE. The next one says MONITOR DRIVER and the 3rd says NATURAL COLOR 1.0.0.4 . I know the first part is my detail users manual because I did not get a regular paper copy but what am I do do with the other two items. As far as the screen image and color on my new HDTY is concerned, they are perfect so do I need to do anything with the disc?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-24-2009, 10:44 PM:

The Sync Master disc you have is meant for computer related functions (we have a couple Samsung computer monitors at my workplace). Apparently you can use your TV as a computer monitor. The TV may even feature a standard SVGA computer monitor jack on the back; although you can buy DVI to HDMI adapters to make HDTV sets function as computer monitors.

The monitor driver and Natural Color 1.0.0.4 items are applications that can give you more control in adjusting monitor settings than you would get by running the HDTV as a "plug and play" computer monitor.

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I saw parts of a beautiful locally produced show in HD last night on our CBS affiliated station, KGMB and it was sharp and look like one would expect as a true HD image.

I'm somewhat impressed by the image quality of free, over the air HDTV signals. Sure, it's not Blu-ray territory. But the image quality is often better than what I see on many of the HD channels I can watch via digital satellite.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-25-2009, 02:44 PM:

I am very happy to report that I am finally enjoying my new Samsung 1080p HDTV after setting up everything correctly. First of all I figured how to get a full 1,33:1 aspect ratio picture by selecting "16X9" instead of "Full 16X9" I had originally set on on my Blu Ray player the other day. I am also set up for 5.1 sound after I found an extra optical cable I did not know I had. Once I had done that, I discovered that the Best Buy Buy sales person did not know what he was talking about when he told me all of Honolulu's HD stations were broadcasting with 5.1 surround sound. Among the four national affiliated stations, our public television station and one independent, only our NBC station has 5.1 sound.

-Claude

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-25-2009, 09:53 PM:

That was likely his way of trying to get you to buy the cabling from them and pad the sale.

Salesmen do that kind of stuff a lot. Like when my mom had gotten a digital wireless phone long ago, the salesman had told her that the phone would still pick up the analog signals from the other towers. Needless to say, when she drove by some analog-only towers that hadn't been upgraded at the time, she got no signal and thought her phone was broken. She got pretty pissed when I explained that the guy had lied to her since her phone was digital-only.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-25-2009, 10:15 PM:

Some salesmen will tell customers whatever they want to hear.

A married couple I know bought a Yamaha receiver at Best Buy a few years ago. The salesman told them their receiver would do 6.1 surround sound despite the fact the receiver only supported a 5.1 speaker configuration and had no mention on the front panel of stuff like "Dolby•EX" or "DTS-ES." I gave my friends the bad news about their surround receiver's true capability. They responded, "but the salesman said..." blah blah blah. He bullshitted them. Happens all the time.

I'm sure this same nonsense is now playing itself out all over again with salesmen selling receivers that may or may not be equipped or compatible with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, as well as the 5.1 versus 7.1 arrangement.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 03-27-2009, 03:20 PM:

Claude - I can't be sure about your particular stations but I know on cable here all stations are now digital and have the capability of transmitting in 5.1 sound. When first hooking up my cable box to my receiver in 2002 I was getting a Dolby Digital carrier signal but it was only delivering two channels despite it being movies I know for a fact were 5.1 in theaters. Soon I discovered that not every station plays movies in 5.1 all the time. For example if "The Producers" is on the primary HBO channel it plays in 5.1 but on another occasion I watched it on HBO Comedy and it played in Dolby Surround 2.0. If you haven't done so already you might want to check the stations in question during their primetime lineups and see if there is a difference.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-27-2009, 03:23 PM:

It is just amazing to think why I did not invest in high definition television much sooner. What I have been experiencing so far has been a total delight ---- except for one problem [Frown]

As a DVD collector since it's launch in 1979, I have a very sizable number of DVDs that has not been enhanced for 16X9 wide screen television displays. It was never a problem with my standard television when I did not mind the black top and bottom borders but now I am getting a smaller image with borders all around the picture on my HDTV. I was always aware of this problem before with my portable DVD player but it was a simple matter of zooming the picture to fill the screen with substantial loss of picture quality but I did not mind doing that with the portable device. I guess I probably can do that with my HDTV but will not. I have just resigned myself to replace some of these non anamorphic DVDs of my absolute favorites with corrected versions on Blu Ray or even DVD in time if they are available.

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-27-2009, 07:20 PM:

I don't have many non-anamorphic DVDs. But the few I do are pretty much un-watchable on my 52" HDTV.

The Abyss, even with its super phiggidy THX Digital Mastering, looks atrocious in its non-anamorphic window-boxed glory. I could almost play checkers on the pixels with the image zoomed. True Lies is another one I'm hoping will arrive on Blu-ray soon -via a proper film scan and updated HD master.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-27-2009, 07:45 PM:

Bobby,

I have THE ABYSS and TRUE LIES as well as THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT in my DVD collection and they are among my favorites and I know the Rob Reiner film about an American leader is now being prepared for a Bly-Ray release. The original DVD was horrid and a BD of the movie will be great. I am sure Fox in time will come around to bringing out THE ABYSS and TRUE LIES on Blu Ray because they very both very popolar when the were released to theatres and DVD.

-Claude

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 03-27-2009, 07:46 PM:

Both THE ABYSS and TRUE LIES have new HD transfers which are done and awaiting James Cameron's approval. But word is he won't have time to look at them until he's done with AVATAR and stuff. I think I read that we're likely to see the new Lowry restoration of TERMINATOR first, then TRUE LIES, and then THE ABYSS.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-27-2009, 08:38 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
As a DVD collector since it's launch in 1979

DVD was most definitely created nearly 20 years after that.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-27-2009, 10:11 PM:

You are right, Chris,

I did mean 1999 but some how typed 1979 instead -- sorry again. It seem like it was yesterday, doesn't it? When Warner Brothers Home Video officially launched, DVD, they were sold in only a few major American cities although the players were available nation wide. I remember buying my combo Pioneer player with nothing to play until a week later when Lumivision actually was the first to market DVDs and I was able to buy them from Tower Video and only three titles were available. I recall one of them was an IMAX film titled TROPICAL RAIN FORREST, Another one featured a collection of Canadian animated shorts and I forgot what the 3rd one was. Just about the time the Warner Brothers DVD were test marketed in the selected cities including Los Angeles, I was fortunate to go there on a business trip and bought almost all of the titles that were introduced at the Tower Video store on Hollywood Blvd. After that, I had my friends in that city as well as San Francisco to buy DVDs for me until they became available nation wide a few months later.

-Claude

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-27-2009, 11:41 PM:

quote: Mike Schindler was the last to post
TRUE LIES

That brings back some memories! It was the first movie to play with digital sound (DTS) in my theatre. A friend and I sat and watched a test screening and I can still remember him saying "This could make even a crappy movie fun to watch!"

OK, back to regularly scheduled discussion.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-27-2009, 11:43 PM:

Not meaning to split hairs too much, but DVD was introduced in 1997. But that's still an anagram of 1979.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-28-2009, 04:35 PM:

I stand corrected once again, Bobby. I knew it was 1997 but for some reason, I only kept thinking it was 1999. Ast least I can use 'Senior Moments" as a excuse.for the mix up [Smile]

-Claude