Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: SOUTH PACIFIC on Blu Ray is like 70mm

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 04-02-2009, 06:44 PM:

I picked up the 50th Anneversay edition of SOUTH PACIFIC on Blu Ray on Tuesday and I was very impressed with the picture quality of the shortened theatrical version in Blu Ray. Although the longer road show version is also included in the set, it is only in standard definition and suffer very badly in both picture and sound quality. The shorter version in Blu Ray is awesome and the picture quality look like it was mastered from a 70mm print. I was able to watch only selected scenes because I had planned to watch SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE the other night but what I saw was an image that looked like the original 70mm. Although the picture quality was superb, the sound was not. It sounded very weak and not like the way I remember the sound was when I saw this movie and others in 70mm in theatres. Another thing I like about the way the movie was presented in Blu Ray was the use of a blank screen during the overture instead of the stupid titles cards other stuios insert with their road show movies like the recent HOW THE WEST WAS WON on Blu Ray and DVD. I am planning to watch the entire Blu Ray movie tomorrow night in HD and I know I wil enjoy itl enjoy it very much especially with a picture that look like 70mm.

BARAKA was very impressive and that too looked like the original 70mm on Blu Ray. Although GANDHI was photographed in 35mm I saw it in 70mm and the recent Blu Ray image also looked like the large format presentation I saw at the Waikiki #2 during it's original release. SLEEPING BEAUTY, photographed in Technirama and presented in 70mm in theatres also look impressive in Blu Ray. I can hardly wait now for the BD of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, MY FAIR LADY, and VERTIGO, Mr Robert Harris had restored to come out in Bly Ray.

-Claude

[ 04-02-2009, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Claude S. Ayakawa ]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-02-2009, 07:35 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
the longer road show version is also included in the set, it is only in standard definition and suffer very badly in both picture and sound quality.

What the heck is the point of THAT??

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
It sounded very weak and not like the way I remember the sound was when I saw this movie and others in 70mm in theatres.

:slaps forehead:

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-02-2009, 09:30 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
What the heck is the point of THAT??

They probably didn't have good quality elements of the extra footage in the road show version to use in making a 8K and high quality digital intermediate as was done with the shorter cut.

On a similar subject Robert Harris is raising money to do a digital restoration of The Alamo in its full length cut. Unfortunately, the original 65mm Todd AO elements are faded and pretty much worthless. Other elements will have to be used in putting together the restoration, and those existing elements are rotting fast. Harris says the movie will pretty well be lost if a restoration is not fully underway within 12 months. There is more information available about the subject at The Digital Bits web site.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 04-02-2009, 10:09 PM:

Bobby,

I do not know why they did not use seamless branching by inserting the missing footage into the existing theatrical version. The total amount of footage in the road show version that was cut soon after it was premiered was only about fifteen minutes. Warner Brothers did something similar with a limited theatrical showing and DVD of the restored A STAR IS BORN. South Pacific at least had the missing footage but the Judy Garland film did not. All that existed from ASIB was photographs of the missing scenes and audio tracks. When I saw the restored version on DVD, there would be a photograph and audio substituting for the missing footage. I had no problem watching the restored movie in the way it was presented because it gave me an idea what the original movie was like. If Fox did the same with SOUTH PACIFIC by using all of the elements from the theatrical version and the missing footage in a Blu Ray presentation of the road show version, I would have no problem with that too

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-03-2009, 08:58 AM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I do not know why they did not use seamless branching by inserting the missing footage into the existing theatrical version.

One possibility why seamless branching wasn't used: perhaps there were differences with audio/film editorial cuts between road show and shorter versions. This is why seamless branching couldn't be used for the theatrical and director's cuts on Dark City.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 04-04-2009, 05:04 PM:

I just watched the theatrical version of SOUTH PACFIC in it's entirety last night and I was very impressed with it. First of all I was wrong when I said the sound was not very good when I had originated this thread. Actuality, it was was excellent considering the recording was made over fifty years ago. Of course it does not have the full dynamic range modern soundtracks have but what I heard last night was very impressive. The only thing that bothered me about SOUTH PACIFIC when I first saw the film in 70mm at the long defunct and demolished Kuhio theatre was the use of color filters to create certain effects. It was totally unnecessary in my opinion! It's even worse now when the yellow and magenta filtered images look like the many faded film prints of today that are badly in need of restoration. Except for the badly filtered scenes, the rest of the movie was beautiful. Seeing a movie like SOUTH PACIFIC in HD on Blu Ray from a beautifully restored 70mm print was like actually watching the movie at home in that cherished large format film format.

-Claude

Posted by Hal Smith (Member # 4356) on 04-04-2009, 10:35 PM:

Got my "American in Paris" Blu-Ray from Amazon yesterday. Absolutely gorgeous, the colors in the Ballet are incredibly rich. Finally we have home video reds that don't bleed all over the place! The sound is a little disappointing like that on "South Pacific" unfortunately I guess no-one thought to save sound elements like picture elements were so there's nothing to go back to for a re-mix.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 04-05-2009, 01:02 PM:

Well, also, both of these films predate noise reduction and modern recording techniques, analog recording really reached its apex in the 70s.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 04-05-2009, 01:45 PM:

Hal,

In between watching movies in it's entirety, I have been looking at some scenes from some of my favorite DVDs just to see how they look on my new HD screen when I play them on my Panasonic BD 35 Blu Ray Disc player. They include THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, MEET ME IN ST LOUIS, BRIGADOON, GONE WITH THE WIND, EASTER PARADE and a few others. Although they looked beautiful on my previous standard television screen, all of the images on the HD screen was gorgeous and the color actually looked like dye transfer Technicolor prints. Even the old Robert Wagner Technicolor and CinemaScope film PRINCE VALIENT I saw last night looked like I was watching an original IB print. I recently purchased AN AMERICAN IN PARIS, GIGI and QUO VADIS on DVD and I know all three of them are now on Blu Ray but I do not know if it is worth double dipping on these movies in Blu Ray.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-06-2009, 11:54 AM:

Some of the negative material for "An American in Paris" was destroyed in a vault fire in 1967. Turner Entertainment restored two reels of the original negative.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-06-2009, 05:09 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I recently purchased AN AMERICAN IN PARIS, GIGI and QUO VADIS on DVD and I know all three of them are now on Blu Ray but I do not know if it is worth double dipping on these movies in Blu Ray.

I just received the first two for review, and I haven't had a chance to break the wrapper yet. I'll let you know when I get a chance!

Posted by Vern Dias (Member # 5241) on 04-22-2009, 08:33 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I recently purchased AN AMERICAN IN PARIS, GIGI and QUO VADIS on DVD and I know all three of them are now on Blu Ray but I do not know if it is worth double dipping on these movies in Blu Ray.

Gigi is certainly worth the double dip, because the increased vertical resolution of BD really makes a difference on 'Scope material. A 1.33:1 DVD, on the other hand will not usually display a significantly improved image as long as the DVD was mastered from the same HD transfer as the BD. The BD will still be better than the DVD, but the difference won't be as apparent on the BD compared to the DVD on a reasonable sized screen.

However, since I don't have a reasonable sized screen (5' x 14') and tend to view from 1.3x screen width, I almost always will upgrade a DVD's when the BD gets released.

Although, not directly part of this discussion, I want to say hello to Claude Ayakawa, who is an old friend and frequently mentions the Waipahu theater which was managed by my dad back when Claude and I were (much) younger. It was one of the few neighborhood theaters on Oahu equipped for 4 track mag and also had a 3 projector projection booth that was easily 40' wide by 20' deep with a good 15' high ceiling.

Vern

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 04-23-2009, 03:28 PM:

Welcome to Film Tech, Vern

Yes, we go way back. I still consider the good times watching movies at the Waipahu Theatre from the time my parents took me there when I was a child until it closed as one of the most happiest periods of my life. The Waipahu was not just an ordinary neighborhood theatre. It was beautifully constructed and designed by the same architect who did the original Waikiki Theatre later to become the #3. It was at the Waipahu where I developed a life long love for the Cinema. I still remember your dad who was very kind to me when he was managing the Waipahu when I was a child especially when he had offered me a ride back to Waipahu after I saw a movie at either the Princess or the Hawaii in downtown Honolulu.Yes, those were the good old days! [Smile]

-Claude

Posted by Vern Dias (Member # 5241) on 05-09-2009, 07:36 PM:

Yes, I always enjoyed spending my weekends at the Waipahu. The projection booth there totally spoiled me. I have never seen a bigger, more spacious booth since. And one of only 3 theaters I have ever worked with a 3 projector booth.

Vern