Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Converting VHS to DVD

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-09-2009, 12:38 AM:

I have a lot of old VHS tapes that I want to move to DVD, but I want to edit them on the computer. (Take out commercials and other junk) I guess I want to buy one of those VHS-to-DVD machines to make "raw" disks that I could then load into the computer for editing - the video card on my computer doesn't have external inputs. Anybody got any recommendations on how to proceed, what hardware to get, and what software to use?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2009, 02:54 AM:

Editing DVDs is a lot more complex than it would seem. I would recommend just recording raw to the DVD, then pressing PAUSE when a commercial comes up. Fast forward the tape to where the commercial break ends, then UNPAUSE to resume recording. If you want to import everything to the computer, you open up a whole new ball of wax that will drain your time and patience.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-09-2009, 08:11 AM:

To do this "right," you really need a time-base corrector, waveform monitor, and vectorscope. VHS is not very stable to begin with, and older tapes that may have been recorded on machines with less-than-perfect alignment are likely to have playback issues. This is probably only worthwhile if the tapes are unique or valuable in some way. If not, one of the combination VHS player/DVD burner units is probably the easiest/cheapest option.

If the tapes actually are rare/unique/valuable, you might want to look for a professional video duplication house, which may be able to do the job less expensively than if you bought all of the tools yourself.

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 07-09-2009, 09:01 AM:

Your best bet if you want to edit the old VHS on your computer is to pass the VHS signal through a small minidv video camera via a firewire cable into the computer. All you need is a firewire card (about $30.00), a 4 pin to 6 pin firewire cable, and a minidv or digital8 video camera. Most, specially the older models have an analog pass through.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 07-09-2009, 09:10 AM:

If you still have the VHS machine on which the tapes were recorded, this will solve most tracking and adjustment problems.

I usually record from VHS to my DVD recorder (SP, no LP mode if you want to cut/edit later on) using DVD-RW discs that can be reused after the footage has been moved to HD.

For raw editing like taking out long commercial breaks, I use DVDShrink (freeware, available from http://dvdshrink.org/), now the blocks are backed up on HD.

Any video editing or DVD software that imports VOB files (Nero Vision, TMPGEnc DVD Author) if fine for joining the blocks, doing fades or whatever you like.

You also could use a DVD recorder with a DV output to get the VHS signal into your computer, but DV data rate is higher than MPEG-2, so you'd end up with ~200MB/minute.

If you buy a DVD recorder, I'd recommend Panasonic. The only machines that never gave any trouble or compatibility problems (over here in PALland, of course).

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-09-2009, 12:57 PM:

Seriously? There really is no other relatively simple way to convert VHS to DVD?

One would think that they could get a card or dongle to inject the video/audio into a computer for a program like iMovie or iDVD or i something in a Mac and equivalet in a PC to sweeten a bit, perhaps loose any letterbox bars...edit a bit...and then burn back to a DVD.

That really does require a bit of heavy learning and expensive programs?

I'm surprised. I know I have some things that are on VHS (and possibly laserdisc) that I'd like to move to a different medium.

Steve

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-09-2009, 01:07 PM:

Wow,"DVDShrink" is no longer freeware - you gotta pay for it.

I have a DVD recorder to do my VHS/LD transfers to DVD. Nice thing about doing LD transfers is that there is no protection signal on these discs as there are on pre-recorded VHS tapes.

But, do a search for a dongle that goes between the player and recorder that takes out this protection signal so you can dupe pre-recorded VHS tapes.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-09-2009, 01:47 PM:

A time-base corrector will take care of the Macrovision encoding. The whole Macrovision scheme is pretty lame and doesn't really protect anything, anyway.

The problem with something like DVD Shrink is that using it requires recompressing the file. Since MPEG is a lossy compression format, the result is an increase in compression artifacts. Not that this is a major issue with VHS source material (which will look rather miserable on its own), but decompression/recompression should generally be avoided.

Also, I strongly recommend using quality blank disks. Most of the blanks that are sold in retail stores are junk. I have had the best luck with Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs. Some burners will only burn +R or -R disks; in general, the -R disks are more likely to play in a generic player. I have not personally attempted to burn dual-layer disks (not that any of the standalone DVD recorders can do this, as far as I know, though the newer computer burners can).

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2009, 01:52 PM:

Steve, yep. You can use programs which will take care of the compression for you and the such, but they do a poor job. Recording to DVD, putting it on your computer, editing it and then going back to DVD again is an awful idea due to the compression and re-compression. My response above which everyone seems to have missed is really the easiest way. You don't need a scope like Scott suggests and most DVD recorders probably already have a TBC built in.

If you really must do fancy editing other than just cutting out commercials, then Paul's way is preferred. But then you must compress and author the DVD and doing so is no simple task and will take loads of time and hard drive space (MiniDV footage is about 14+ GB per hour). Still, you are compressing it and then recompressing it again. There WILL be quality loss, especially in the color red.

Dual Layer discs require a manually set layer break point. Layer 0 must always be bigger than layer 1. I don't think any stand alone players can handle this and when video is concerned it is very complex to incorporate this, so don't bother buying dual-layer blanks unless you know what you are doing. For data storage they are fine and you don't have to worry about layer break points.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2009, 02:14 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Wow,"DVDShrink" is no longer freeware - you gotta pay for it.

Bullshit. That is some enterprising criminal trying to charge for it. Go to www.dvdshrink.org for it.

quote: Scott Norwood

The problem with something like DVD Shrink is that using it requires recompressing the file.

DVDShrink has an option to not recompress. Capturing direct to a DVD and then ripping that on your PC with DVDShrink to edit out the commercials is definitely the easiest and quickest way to do the job while keeping quality decent. Otherwise you need to go overboard (for VHS) and go Scott's route. Just click "re-author" and then use the little ---> <--- edit icon in the sort-of upper right corner to edit out those commercials.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2009, 02:48 PM:

As I said, pressing PAUSE on the recorder would be even easier and shitloads faster. Am I the only one who has ever edited with linear-based equipment?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2009, 04:45 PM:

DVD Shrink is pretty damn easy to cut out commercials on Joe. Have you ever tried it? It is much better than trying to sit there and press and release the pause button at the right moment. With DVDShrink editing, you can just start the tape, walk away to take a dump or whatever, then quickly eliminate the commercials on the computer later with zero quality loss.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-09-2009, 05:42 PM:

Well - first of all this project of mine is not to make reference quality reproductions of valuable rare films. These are just old TV shows which I recorded in the 70s, 80s and 90s. So I'm not exactly too worried about perfection since they're not all that great to start with.

Joe's method would surely be the easiest but I don't want to have to sit there in real time and watch 500 or so hours of video just to cut out the commercials and shit...I was hopeing to put the stuff on the computer, whack out the unneeded bits and burn back to disk. I'm like Steve -- feel like it should be less complicated than it's sounding here.

I use CD Architect to make CDs -- Sony has a companion program called DVD Architect Pro, and they have a "consumer" version of that called DVD Architect Studio. I wonder if that would do what I want? I would think most of the settings and other behind the scenes stuff would be handled by such a program.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 07-09-2009, 06:43 PM:

Mike, if you don't require professional-quality results, all you probably need is something like Pinnacle Dazzle DVD Recorder or Dazzle Video Creator Plus. Street prices should be under $50 and $90, respectively. They are easy to use, but no matter how you approach this, converting 500 hours of VHS is going to be time-consuming to say the least.

If you do decide to try one of those, consider buying it from a place like Best Buy, so you can return it if it doesn't work out for you. And be sure to check for software updates online before you get too far into it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2009, 07:17 PM:

Seriously Mike, just buy a good quality DVD recorder, record at the "fastest speed" and capture your VHS into DVD-RWs.

Then to edit out the commercials, put that disc into your computer and edit them out with DVDShrink.

I understand exactly what you are trying to achive and I am positive you will be happy with this very simple solution.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-09-2009, 11:42 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Am I the only one who has ever edited with linear-based equipment?

Nope. Been there, done that--3/4", Beta, and Digi-Beta. I occasionally still do this in order to make compilation tapes for film festivals. I've also edited 16mm film. Oddly, I've never used a computer-based nonlinear system. Yeah, I'm weird like that.

Brad--how do you make edits to a file format that uses interframe compression without having to recompress the result? Can you only make edits on every Nth frame boundary or something?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-10-2009, 02:03 AM:

500 hours? What the hell did you tape?

No matter how you do it, it is gonna be tedious.

Scott, it can make cuts at keyframes. MPEG works in groups of pictures (GOP) so you'll never be able to be anywhere even remotely close to frame accurate using DVD Shrink, but you might be able to get within 4 or 7 frames.

And Brad, no I have never used DVD Shrink as I have never had a need to "shrink" a DVD.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-10-2009, 02:54 AM:

You can select "no compression". It makes a great DVD ripper. The nice thing is that you can strip away all of the damned captions and foreign languages, but keep the 5.1 track and full quality video.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-10-2009, 10:14 AM:

But see...I don't have a DVD recorder except the one in the puter. Is there no good way to hook up a VHS or other video source to the iMac, put the tape on the puter and then output a DVD? Or should I say...is there no easy/low-cost way of doing this?

Steve

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 07-10-2009, 11:14 AM:

You can buy a little converter box to go from composite video or from S-Video into Firewire. There are lots of them. Some digital camcorders can do it, so you may already have the solution. Feed your old VHS output through the box, into the computer and presto! You're ready to capture.

(Of course, I've had access to Final Cut Pro for several years now so I'm not too familiar with the low-cost or no-cost software like iMovie and I don't know how well it captures video this way. But, since it's about the simplest thing you can do in Final Cut Pro, I can't imagine other cheaper software wouldn't do it too.)

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-10-2009, 11:35 AM:

And if you didn't have a VCR at all, there are ones out there with a USB and/or firewire connector.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-10-2009, 11:47 AM:

Steve, first you have to have an iVHS deck.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 07-10-2009, 12:07 PM:

The solution with the DVD Recorder and DVD Shrink sounds appealing, and I might give that a shot myself for the copying that I'm doing. Right now, I've just been recording entire tapes, commercials and all, to a DVD Recorder set to 2-hour mode.

When I want convert from VHS and edit the video, I use my friend's Canopus converter box. It's the -100 version, but I think there is a lower-priced one out now.

Capturing from the Canopus into Sony Vegas Studio is very easy, and I find Vegas Studio to be very easy to use for editing, and the included DVD Architect Studio software to work very well as well.

It is a time-sink, though, so be prepared to spend quite a bit of time. The elegance of doing the editing is that you have ultimate control, but the flip side is that you will spend a lot of time fine-tuning things to suit your taste.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 07-10-2009, 12:48 PM:

Vegas has a lot of features and is nice to handle, but IIRC it does not allow you to import VOBs directly. Not a problem if you use a decent video card to capture the VHS signal.

Brad already described DVDShrink's functions, just wanted to add that you cannot set In/Out-Points more accurate than +/- 1 second. In my opinion, that should be fine for removing commercial breaks, and it saves you the additional step of fine cutting.

DVDShrink will process video streams without change (quality slider set to 100%), to any custom rate or to fit a specific medium (4.7GB DVD). Here is a guide to most settings:

DVDShrink Guide

It's freeware, so you can simply try it to see whether it's convenient for your type of editing work.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-10-2009, 02:28 PM:

I transfered about 150 VHS using a Leadtek PVR2000 TV tuner/capture PCI card. It has hardware encoding so it doesn't use much processor power and you can set it to record in DVD quality or higher. I then used Nero 7 Ultra Edition to take the video and edit it down and make chapters and sub-menus along with background graphics and audio. Most of the VHS had to be split on to 2 dual layer discs since they were recorded on longest play setting (SLP?) and most were 6 or 8 hr tapes.

On a side note, I would encourage you to keep the the source file intact, and as time permits, clip the commercials and upload them to sites like Retrojunk for us nastalgia buffs.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-10-2009, 03:11 PM:

quote: Greg Anderson
You can buy a little converter box to go from composite video or from S-Video into Firewire. There are lots of them. Some digital camcorders can do it, so you may already have the solution. Feed your old VHS output through the box, into the computer and presto! You're ready to capture.

But it captures as MiniDV format (14GB per hour) and then THAT must be compressed into MPEG2. The audio must be compressed into a 2 channel Dolby Digital stream. Then it must be authored, MUXED and burned.

Steve is right, there really is no easy, painless way to do it. Copying a 2 hour tape to a DVD recorder would probably take up to another 2 hours just to copy onto the computer hard drive, sort through removing the commercials and then reburning. Mike is looking at close to a 1000 hour process with DVD Shrink. Not sure why he doesn't want to do it in real time pressing PAUSE. Maybe he doesn't want to watch what he has on video tape which begs the question: Why do you want it on DVD?

The question is: Is it really worth it?

I get monetary offers all the time to convert a bunch of old tapes to DVD for people, but I always decline. Too much of a pain. Sometimes I will do one short thing, like the THX WOW LaserDisc, but never more than something like that.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 07-10-2009, 04:28 PM:

I will assure you from when I did this...It's NOT worth it to spend the time editing the commercials (even by the "Pause" button).

Just get a simple combo recorder with a one-touch dub option and let the discs rip in the background. I bought the cheapest one out there (a Walmart Magnavox) and did most discs in 2-hour mode. I was actually pleasantly surprised with the results. (Now try recording a program from a broadcast with the same player, and it looks horrible. But dubbing...okay.)

If you want to edit a program, you can always do it later from the files on the ripped disc. Two or three should make you never want to attempt it again.

Besides...Old commercials are awesome.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-10-2009, 07:10 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
500 hours? What the hell did you tape?

It's probably not that much. I do have maybe a few dozen tapes or so that I'd like to convert, but they're not all full and I don't necessarily want to save everything on each tape either. It's all stuff you can't get on DVD now and probably never will be able to, but which I might enjoy watching when I'm too old to do anything else.

I think I'm in nostalgia mode because since my dad passed away I've been going thru the old family photo archives and digitizing a bunch of photos for my sisters, mom and brother.

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 07-11-2009, 01:07 PM:

Back when I still owned a VHS player I had it plugged into my computer with an ATI all-in-wonder. I'm sure you can still get them. You could plug it into your cable tv, use it as a PVR and record your old tapes. It comes with loads of codecs, so you could easily pick your compression and record without too much trouble. You could take your end result and dump it into a video editor and be done fairly easily.

It might be easiest and better to buy DVD's of the few movies you really care about, or just enjoy watching them on a VCR.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 07-11-2009, 04:15 PM:

I am trying to come up with the best quality way to archive my s-vhs camcorder tapes!?

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 10-07-2009, 05:09 AM:

well i have tried a number of ways of turning my old VHS into DVDs.

I found anything to do with computer capturing and burning to be very time consuming.

Using a DVD recorder is definitely the best. even better with a recorder with a hard drive. Capture the VHS to the hard drive , then do a partial delete to get rid of ads then burn off to disc , very simple and the results are fine.

Only problems the recorder will not touch copy protected tapes so I guess the PC is the only way round this. I have heard those new USB capture devices work great very simple and come with software.

http://www.altoedge.com/usbcapture/