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In summary, Gladiator is a great film that deserves a great Blu-ray edition. Unfortunately, this isn't quite it. It could be - in terms of content and extras, this is truly an ultimate edition of this film. In every aspect other than the video, this edition is superb. However the disc's deficiencies in image quality are quite disappointing.

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quote: Vern Dias

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rather it's all about the actual viewing angle being used.

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You are talking about viewing distance, not viewing angle.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 09-06-2009, 06:59 PM:
 
I guess he means viewing-distance-related-to-screen-size = viewing angle (or rather, angular field of view, or the portion of the image to "fill" the sweet spot in the center of your retina).

At any given distance, you could have a screen the size listed or larger and you would be able to notice defects that, on a smaller sized screen at the same distance or at longer distances, our eyes simply can't see, because the resolution of the image is larger than our eyes (angular) resolving power, even under optimal conditions.

If we can't see all the pixels, we also can't see all the "bad pixels" (those representing "errors" on the image that shouldn't be there). Only on larger screens (or shorter viewing distances or both) are those (alledged) defects visible at all.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-06-2009, 07:15 PM:
 
In this age of compression artifacts where macro-blocks take the size of up to several dozen pixels, the whole viewing distance thing becomes irrelevant. You'll have to sit across the street to not notice bad compression. It is not like every single pixel on Blu-ray movies is discrete, far from it. Blu-ray, as good as it is, is far from ideal HD. So therefore your viewing distance needs to be MUCH further than what is listed above.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 09-06-2009, 07:20 PM:
 
LOL THX recommendations.
 

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Posted by Vern Dias (Member # 5241) on 09-06-2009, 07:44 PM:
 
Julio has it exactly right.....

BTW, compression artifacts are almost never visible on most of the well produced BD discs today. I use a 5' x 14' 2.66:1 curved screen with a viewing distance of ~14 in my HT'.

With my setup (Sony Qualia 004 projector, Isco Cinema DLP 1.5X anamorphic lens, and HTPC running Arcsoft TMT and aspect ratio control software) I can handle video in any format up to 2.55:1 with no cropping, Ultra Panavision / MGM Camera 65 needs a slight crop to 2.66:1. Constant height, no black bars here.

No visible macroblocking, or any other obvious artifacts on the great majority of BD and HD DVD titles either. In fact it's probably a better image than I could get from my 35mm setup in the same room, since most HD video transfers are at least 2 generations closer to the O Neg than most release prints....

The only obvious issues I see are occasional noise in dark scenes and some degradation in the original source materials (fading, density variations, etc.)

Vern
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 09-06-2009, 08:28 PM:
 
If i get anything less than Baraka quality on a favorite movie i become angry!
I can live with the regular dvd if the studio wants to cheat on the blu-ray!
Like Joe said you have compression artifacts as well as stair stepping and who knows what if they mess it up.

Sonys The Fifth Element is a great example of (the first one)
Imagine if know one complained about that!
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-06-2009, 08:50 PM:
 
Almost all of the commercial movies made today are shot on 35mm film and in digital.. BARAKA was photographed in 65mm and received a very high resolution scan and it is very unrealistic to expect every 35mm photographed movie on Blu Ray to have a image quality like it. The closest it came was SOUTH PACIFIC and that movie was also photographed in 65mm and received a high resolution scan.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-06-2009, 11:57 PM:
 
I liked Gladiator enough to buy the original "Signature Selection" DVD with DTS-ES 6.1 audio. Based on the various reviews from DVD Beaver, Blu-ray.com, The Digital Bits, etc. I'm going to hold off and see if Universal creates a new HD master in the same manner Sony did with The Fifth Element.

The new BD of Braveheart isn't perfect, but it is often fairly impressive. If anything the flaws I see in Braveheart are problems with the cinematography itself. For example, there's a couple of shots of "The Leper" character where the camera focus obviously missed the proper mark. The clarity of other camera shots in the same scene makes the focusing error even more obvious.

In the case of Gladiator it appears Universal has done what I often suspect of many other less than impressive Blu-ray catalog titles: the studio merely recycles some old HD telecine master originally created for DVD use. Even film scanning technology from several years ago is quite inferior to the best datacine systems in use today. I think the new Braveheart BD was created via a new film scan from new datacine equipment. Gladiator should have received the same treatment.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-07-2009, 05:29 PM:
 
When a studio release one of their catalog titles on Blu Ray, their only intention is to present a version that is nuch better than the DVD with a 1080p high definition picture.. Many catalog movies are released using the currently available material that was created for the most recent DVD of that title. If a Blu Ray release are special films LIKE GONE WITH THE WIND, WIZZARD OF OZ and NORTH BY NORTHWEST, a studio will go all out creating a special master for the release and that is exactly what Warner Brothers is doing with these movies. Paramount new Sapphire Series is suppose to present movies with the best Blu Ray picture & sound possible and why they decided to use an old HD master of GLADIATOR is something I do not understand but I am not condamning the BD because I am satisfied with it. Yes, it could have been better but as expected, it is much better than the DVD.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-07-2009, 06:21 PM:
 
The primary thing any studio intends with a movie release on Blu-ray or DVD is to make money.

Newer movie releases usually look very good on Blu-ray because movies produced within the last 4-5 years often have had precise film scanning and digital intermediate techniques used in the post-production stage. Those techniques are improving further. The Blu-ray disc is being authored using a higher quality source.

Catalog titles on Blu-ray are more tricky. They don't sell nearly as well as new movie releases on Blu-ray. Lots of people already have the DVD version and don't want to buy them again, especially at some of the price premiums being charged for the discs. It's worthy of mention Gladiator and Braveheart both feature $10 mail in coupons for owners of the previous DVD versions.

In that environment the studios have a difficult choice to make. Do they want to spend a significant amount of money and effort creating a new HD master and risk not getting a return on that investment? Or is an existing 9 year old HD telecine master originally intended for DVD authoring use good enough? The defense of using an old video master is certain fans of a movie are going to buy a new Blu-ray version of it despite how soft it looks, how much detail it lacks or how obvious problems like edge enhancement may be in the image.

My own opinion is I simply dislike the use of these old telecine masters on catalog Blu-ray releases because they simply are not up to the standards of the Blu-ray format. Those masters look too soft in appearance. They often have more dirt and other debris visible. Side-weave and other image movement is common. Titles and other in movie graphics often look noticeably soft. Worse yet, things like grain reduction and edge enhancement may be cooked into these masters. Not a big deal when the image is reduced to 480p for DVD authoring. The problems are amplified when the image is shown at native 1080p resolution.

If movie studio heads don't think there's enough potential customers for a certain catalog title to justify getting a new film scan and HD master then I think the studio should hold off releasing it until enough potential customers are available. The Blu-ray format is going to get a whole lot more popular, especially with BD player prices dropping to ever more affordable levels.

In some cases certain movies have to be saved ASAP using whatever resources are available. For a lot of movies made within the last 20-30 years, most could look quite a lot better if given the same scanning/DI treatment most new movies receive.

There is already far more movies available on the Blu-ray format than most of us could possibly afford or have space to store and Blu-ray is still arguably a niche format. So it really is no big deal for me to just wait until Universal and Paramount can reach some agreement to give Gladiator the proper treatment it deserves for Blu-ray release. There's lots of other good movie choices available for adding to one's Blu-ray collection.
 

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Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 09-08-2009, 02:07 AM:
 
I suspect we'll see the same release pattern for Blu Ray as we have for DVD with respect to catalog titles.

In the late 90's, we got DVD releases of things such as Batman (Tim Burton). It was a single layer disc which had a smeary image and an OK soundtrack. Eventually, we got a 2-disc set with a dual-layer disc, upgraded soundtrack and a far superior transfer.

My guess is that the same sort of thing will happen with the Blu Ray format, especially titles that sold well in their original incarnation.

The strategy of releasing the movie using the original transfer allows the studio to collect sales data, which they can then use to determine which titles will finally receive the 'white glove' treatment. Then they can sell them again. And voila - double dipping!
 

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