Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Is Wal*Mart ditching Blu-ray altogether?

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-03-2009, 04:56 PM:

Wal*Mart used to have a decent selection of Blu-rays. They even had a $10 section of them. Granted, it was never on the level of Best Buy or whatnot, but they were there. Now all of the Wal*Marts that I have been to lately have next to no Blu-rays at all. Maybe it is because poor people can't buy Blu-rays and mostly poor, mentally ill people shop at Wal*Mart? Why does Wal*Mart hate Blu-rays.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-03-2009, 05:57 PM:

The two Wal-Mart stores and Sam's Club in my town has Blu-ray discs, but not very many of them. I think they have reduced their stock of BDs due to shoplifting. Sam's usually keeps the new releases locked up in an area near the front. They have a few discounted BDs out on the sales floor, but most of those movies are older titles.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-03-2009, 06:39 PM:

They never had much to begin with Bobby... remember how I used to complain about the Wal-Mart by my house. I remember you sayying they had alot in your area though. The few they do have here are movies no one wants. Same for the Wal-Mart by Mike Henan. Target is much better stocked in both Utah and Arizona. Joe is screaming bloody murder on Facebook because Best Buy has raised all their prices just in time for Christmas. I'm still buyin from Amazon.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-03-2009, 07:00 PM:

Maybe Wal-Mart decided they can't make any money on the stupid things. Retailers are screwing themselves out of any and all profits by trying to top each other on price. The public has contributed to this by making "price" the all-important consideration, service and selection be damned.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-03-2009, 09:19 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
They never had much to begin with Bobby... remember how I used to complain about the Wal-Mart by my house. I remember you sayying they had alot in your area though.

Our Wal-Mart stores used to have a pretty good selection of Blu-ray discs. However, a few months ago Wal-Mart cut that stock of BDs down by more than half and filled the empty space with a couple shelves for a few BD player models. I don't understand that choice. They have another aisle featuring a bunch of cheapo DVD players that don't appear to be moving. Why not fill some of that ample space with some of those Blu-ray players?

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Joe is screaming bloody murder on Facebook because Best Buy has raised all their prices just in time for Christmas. I'm still buyin from Amazon.

When it comes to selling Blu-ray Amazon is kicking every retailer's ass, including Wal-Mart. I bought 8 movies on Blu-ray from Amazon in November and saved over $100 compared to what stores like Wal-Mart were charging for the same titles.

quote: Mike Blakesley
The public has contributed to this by making "price" the all-important consideration, service and selection be damned.

Stores like Wal-Mart don't provide what I consider service, much less a decent selection. Half the time you can't even go into the store and simply pick up a disc and buy it. You get to deal with locked cases or cages up front and flagging down an employee to retrieve the disc.

I understand why big box stores like Best Buy or movie stores in malls need to charge more for the movies. But they rarely have the kind of variety I expect to justify the higher prices.

Basically Blu-ray is going through the same thing DVD did a decade ago. At the end of the 1990s I was buying most of my DVDs online because the price and variety of movies at brick and mortar retailers was a joke. Once the prices and selection improved enough I did all my disc buying at the regular stores instead of ordering them through the mail.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-03-2009, 09:30 PM:

As a video store owner, I buy from WM weekly as my costs per copy are $3-5 per copy cheaper than traditional distribution. I spend a bunch each week. I also know the electronics manager well.

WM does not mess around with product they do make a decent return on. BR has been a slow go up until recently. My numbers were pretty laughable until the past month. WM has been dealing with the the major releases each week and maybe another 50 titles. They will not stop carrying them. they carry what they need and for the mainstream consumer that means this week's major new releases.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of buyers is not like Claude (wish I had you by my store). WM has also cut back on total dvd skus (especially TV).

I think you will more titles after Christmas because of demand. Target in my area is similar.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-03-2009, 09:43 PM:

Overall public demand for Blu-ray has been improving steadily over this past year, even on new releases. This week's #1 seller, Angels and Demons saw 25% of its total unit sales from Blu-ray. The problem is a lot of those BD sales are being made online.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 12-04-2009, 04:05 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
You get to deal with locked cases or cages up front and flagging down an employee to retrieve the disc.

I had to deal with the same thing when I went into one a few days ago to get a beard trimmer (since mine went missing). No one that walked by knew who had the key and when I got someone to send out a page that I needed help, no one came. I eventually, just got tired of it, put back the other thing I was gonna purchase and left. They didn't deserve my purchase.

And the Target in the same neighborhood had no locks on any shavers/trimmers and for pretty much the same price. I doubt that people are more likely to shoplift the same products costing the same price from a Walmart instead of Target.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-04-2009, 04:46 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Joe is screaming bloody murder on Facebook because Best Buy has raised all their prices just in time for Christmas.

I am? Bloody murder?

quote: Bobby Henderson
You get to deal with locked cases or cages up front and flagging down an employee to retrieve the disc.

This is why I am glad that Circuit City is gone, all of their employees fired, now homeless and eating dried up sidewalk earthworms in an attempt to survive. Any time I wanted to buy a game there, I had to flag someone down and only one person in the store had the proper key. I had to do the same thing at Best Buy when I bought my DSLR.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2009, 08:53 AM:

So Mike B. do you know off hand what is the profit margin is a place like Best Buy is making if they sell a current film on Blu Ray for $26.95??

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-08-2009, 10:00 PM:

Mark - prices vary somewhat by studio, but just as an example - our dealer cost on the widescreen version of "Public Enemies" is as follows:

Blu-Ray: Dealer cost is $23.19 for a 2-disk version

DVD: Dealer cost is $18.89 for the single-disk version, $23.29 for the 2-disk (yes, a dime MORE than the Blu-ray).

"Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian" has a dealer cost of $29.25 for the 3-disk Blu-ray, $25.25 for the 2-disk DVD, and $21.25 for the single DVD.

I'm not sure exactly what Best Buy and the like is paying, but their costs could be around 5% lower than these because they buy case lots.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-09-2009, 11:56 AM:

Considering that Amazon is selling Public Enemies on Blu-ray for $19.99, one would hope that their cost is considerably less than $23.19. Night at the Museum 2 is even more significant, as Amazon's price is $19.99 compared to your stated $29.25 cost.

I'm quite surprised at how high those costs are that you listed! I would think it would be nearly impossible for a small shop to make any money on selling DVD's and Blu-ray discs.

I wonder how long it will take for the studios to drop the DVD-only editions altogether? Disney and Warner Bros. have been including DVD copies with some Blu-ray releases, which makes it easy for someone who hasn't taken the high-def plunge yet to buy the movie and watch it on DVD now, and enjoy it on Blu-ray when they get a player.

In the case of Night at the Museum, the single-disc DVD is $15.99 and the Blu-ray is $19.99, which includes the single-disc DVD. There is a 2-disc "Monkey Disc" DVD release available, but that second disc sounds pretty worthless. $4.00 to have the Blu-ray disc included seems like a really good deal to me, and I would think most people would agree.

I'm sure that there are people that still don't want to pay anything extra, but I think that crowd will lean more increasingly towards rentals, which I think the studios are going to start restricting in content (no extras, movie only).

DVD has become the cassette tape to Blu-ray's compact disc. I remember working in a Musicland in the mid-80's and watching the CD's take up an ever-increasing amount of shelf space, as LP's and cassette tapes took a proportional hit in their shelf-space. By the time I left to go to college in fall of 86, the LP's were relegated to two columns, and the CD's had taken over half the store.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-09-2009, 01:50 PM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
I wonder how long it will take for the studios to drop the DVD-only editions altogether? Disney and Warner Bros. have been including DVD copies with some Blu-ray releases, which makes it easy for someone who hasn't taken the high-def plunge yet to buy the movie and watch it on DVD now, and enjoy it on Blu-ray when they get a player.

Universal Studios Home Video wants to bring back the "combo disc" format in the form of "BD-59," a flpper disc featuring a dual layer BD-50 on one side and a dual layer DVD-9 on the other side. Remember the HD-DVD/DVD combo format. This is the Blu-ray version of it. They're going to ship the three Jason Bourne movies as separate releases in January (currently the trilogy is available on Blu-ray only in box set form). Universal is planning to ship another movie or two in BD59 format during January as well.

Universal wants to ship a single SKU home video product covering both Blu-ray and DVD bases. I think they could do that just the same with two separate BD50 and DVD9 discs in the same package. But no. They gotta get everything onto just one disc because there is more harmony in the world if everything can be neatly crammed onto only one platter.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-09-2009, 02:56 PM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
I'm quite surprised at how high those costs are that you listed! I would think it would be nearly impossible for a small shop to make any money on selling DVD's and Blu-ray discs.

Scott - why do you think most every small shop in the land is going out of business? The only reason ours still exists is because it's inside an auto parts store.

Wholesaler prices are also the reason why many smallish stores actually get their inventory FROM places like WalMart. It is indeed difficult to make much profit. Most people think we pay $10 for a $20 item, when in reality we pay closer to $16 or $17.

Take note that, at the end of my post, I said that Best Buy and etc. probably pay somewhat less because they buy case lots. Amazon probably pays even less because they buy by the pallet load, and alot of Amazon's business is conducted through "sellers" who are unloading excess inventory below the typical dealer's cost.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-09-2009, 04:34 PM:

I don't understand Amazon. Sometimes when I buy something there, I get a request to leave feedback. I usually never leave feedback. How am I supposed to know if I am supposed to leave feedback or not? This isn't friggin' eBay.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-09-2009, 06:43 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I don't understand Amazon. Sometimes when I buy something there, I get a request to leave feedback. I usually never leave feedback.

I received an e-mail from Amazon this morning asking me to post reviews on my recent Blu-ray purchases. I never bother posting reviews there and rarely post reviews of other discs I bought anywhere. It just takes too much time.

I've posted a handful of BD reviews here, at Blu-ray.com and Home Theater Forum. That's about it.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 12-09-2009, 07:14 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I don't understand Amazon. Sometimes when I buy something there, I get a request to leave feedback. I usually never leave feedback. How am I supposed to know if I am supposed to leave feedback or not? This isn't friggin' eBay.

If you buy something from an independent Amazon seller through amazon.com as opposed to Amazon itself, you're asked to leave feedback about the seller.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-09-2009, 07:20 PM:

How do I know? It all looks the same to me.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 12-09-2009, 07:34 PM:

Look for "Ships from and sold by" near the "In Stock" indicator on any item.

Image example...On the left, an item is sold by "BESTSELLER21". On the right, a (completely different) item is sold by Amazon.com.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-09-2009, 07:40 PM:

Another tip-off is Amazon usually does not offer free "super saver" shipping for items it re-sells for other vendors. The package is shipping from the vendor instead of an Amazon distribution center. I bought some books about typography and a couple of camera accessories in that manner.

The Blu-ray discs usually come from Amazon if you're buying them new. The used ones can come from any number of sellers.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-09-2009, 07:42 PM:

Thanks Sam.

Bobby, sometimes I am able to get free shipping on Blu-rays, other times not. I think my order must be a certain $$$ amount before I am eligible.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-09-2009, 09:03 PM:

The purchase has to be over $25 to qualify for free super saver shipping. At least that's the case for Blu-ray discs and music CDs.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-09-2009, 09:56 PM:

Is anyone a member of "Amazon Prime?" I keep getting come-ons for that but I'm against paying to "belong" to any merchant on principle. What are the advantages besides the shipping discounts? Is it worth it?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-10-2009, 10:22 AM:

I think Amazon prime is only worth it if you frequently buy stuff from them (at least 2 or 3 times a month) and need your stuff fast. If you're willing to wait a few days or perhaps over a week at times it's better just to order enough stuff to get the free super saver shipping.

Posted by Vern Dias (Member # 5241) on 12-11-2009, 07:07 AM:

Yes, I have had Amazon Prime for close to a year now. It is definitely worth it for me, as I order at least one or two discs from Amazon almost every week. Amazon Prime has saved me a bunch on shipping and Amazon clearly has the best prices with their best price guarantee. In fact, I just got a $7.00 credit for one of the new Harry Potter BD box sets.

Two advantages for two day shipping: UPS vs USPS, delivered to your door, and I always get new releases delivered on their release date, even if they were shipped the previous day.

Vern

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-11-2009, 11:18 AM:

I signed up for Amazon Prime last year about this time when they were having the $59 "Oprah" sale. I always thought that $79 was an awful lot of money for something that can be tolerated for free, but I plan on re-subscribing (at the full price, most likely) when it comes due.

Not having to worry about the $25 minimum for free shipping, and not having to wait for the Super Saver Shipping methods to arrive (some packages came right away with Super Saver, but I had a few things take almost two weeks), make the Prime program worthwhile in my situation.

We do a lot of shopping on Amazon, as they have excellent prices (for the most part), the shipping is fast, and I don't have to deal with stores that may or may not have stock, may or may not have employees who give a damn, and who usually do not have decent prices (I don't mind a small price increase when I shop locally vs. online, but drastic price differences are unreasonable).

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-13-2009, 10:18 PM:

As Mike B. mentioned for most major releases; WM/BB/Amazon are significantly cheaper than our distribution.

I have two Amazon accounts and have prime on both. But, I am a heavy Amazon buyer. For example, Amazon (in response to WM) had what amounts to the top 10 movies for Nov/Dec for $9.98 on DVD. (If I was still buying from traditional distribution that would be $9 cheaper) I ordered the max of 3 copies on each account with free 2-day shipping and they get to my store right when we open on release date.

As far as major boxes gross margins on movies; that has always been up to debate. We know they use them as a loss leader. We also know they get other considerations that the majority of small stores do not get like MDF, placement fees, etc. My best guess is that there cost for dvds is $16.

BTW the pricing that Mike B. mentioned is about as good of pricing that I have seen small stores get from distribution.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 12-13-2009, 11:15 PM:

The standard shipping on Amazon is fast. I'm sure it varies depending on items in stock, but I just ordered Lost seasons 1 trough 5 during their fire sale, and it arrived in 3 or 4 days.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-13-2009, 11:48 PM:

Why would you need TWO Amazon accounts?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 12-13-2009, 11:55 PM:

Probably so he could order more copies at a time than he's supposed to be allowed. Just my guess.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-14-2009, 01:07 AM:

There is a limit on what you can order? Unless he is a dealer, why would he buy more than one copy of anything?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 12-14-2009, 10:10 AM:

Did you not notice that he said he runs a (presumably rental) store and that buying through amazon is cheaper than through his regular distributor?

So my guess is he buys as many as he can through them and if he needs more copies, he gets them at the higher price.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-14-2009, 01:06 PM:

Nope, didn't notice that.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-14-2009, 05:28 PM:

Yes, I own video stores (buy/sell/trade/rent movies and video games). Amazon limits you to 3 copies when you pre-order. I have been able to order more than that with some time between orders. I sometime need as many as 50 copies of movies.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-19-2009, 10:56 PM:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6712357.html

PHYSICAL: Analyst: Mass merchant's discounting appeals to women, families
By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 12/18/2009
DEC. 18 | PHYSICAL: Walmart’s aggressive fourth-quarter Blu-ray Disc merchandising is paying off for the retailer, which is now running neck-and-neck with Best Buy in high-definition software market share, according to analyst NPD Group.

For the three months from September through November 2009, Walmart commanded about a 30% market share in Blu-ray Disc sales. That is roughly even with Best Buy. Walmart’s showing marks a big turnaround from its position through much of Blu-ray’s lifespan, when the chain was seen as seriously trailing Best Buy. Back in May, according to analysts, Best Buy claimed 40% to 50% market share in Blu-ray, with Walmart a distant No. 2 with 20% to 30%.

Amazon.com and Target are in third and fourth spots for the September-November frame, with 15% and 10% share, respectively, about the same as earlier in the year.

Of course, the retailers are competing for share of a growing market. Consumer spending on Blu-ray software purchases was up 83% through the third quarter, according to DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group.

NPD credits Walmart’s surge to the chain’s unique ability to target women—an expanded consumer group for Blu-ray technology. Best Buy’s core consumer strength is men and early adopters who initially drove Blu-ray sales. However, Walmart’s renewed push as the nation’s low-price leader, spanning many of its featured products, seems to have especially resonated with females and other new-to-Blu-ray mainstream consumers.

Walmart sparked price wars this fourth quarter with other retailers in tagging new release standard DVDs at $10 and Blu-rays below $20. For example, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince was advertised for about $16 on Blu-ray. Prices remain cheap following the Black Friday period, with this week’s release The Hangover listed at $15.86 at Walmart.

Granted, Best Buy and Amazon.com are often matching Walmart’s pricing. Yet Walmart’s long-established low-price reputation is likely boosting its Blu-ray momentum.

Additionally, Walmart made a big statement in the format by offering a $78 Magnavox Blu-ray player on Black Friday, beating other retailers on their advertised pricing for high-definition set-tops.

“We’re seeing it as more of a horse race with Blu-ray,” said Russ Crupnick, senior entertainment industry analyst for NPD. “I think Walmart has made a strong effort over the past year, being aggressive with price. They are very specifically targeting an untapped market. They are saying this isn’t just a high-tech product. It’s something that women and families can enjoy.”

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-20-2009, 12:58 PM:

I was in Wal-Mart a couple days ago. I could have sworn they had The Hangover Blu-ray priced at $24.95.

I've never seen Wal-Mart price a new release DVD at or below $10. They have a decent number of older DVD titles on sale below $10, but not new releases. Those DVDs are typically in the $15.95 - $19.95 price range.

I can understand why Wal-Mart has 30% of the Blu-ray market share. It's all about location and convenience. I don't think it has anything to do with Wal-Mart marketing to women better than other stores. I've seen the Blu-ray aisles at numerous Wal-Mart locations in Oklahoma. Not many titles at all, much less any sort of title selection that concentrates on women. The variety sucks. There's a few new releases and some catalog titles gathering dust because they're priced too high compared to Amazon.

Further, Blu-ray is seeing its highest sales percentages vs. DVD on big action titles. Blu-ray is hitting above 30% market share during opening week. Blu-ray is way down into the low single digit percentages of market share vs. DVD with more female-oriented movies.

The only thing that is happening is Wal-Mart is catching Blu-ray impulse buys. People are already in the store getting groceries and other odds and ends. They see a Blu-ray they want and just pick it up there instead of driving to another store even if the other store's price was lower.

Maybe women are being more included in this marketing data over social demographics in grocery shopping. More often than not, the mom of the house does that job. I can see a situation where she and her husband talk on the phone about what movies to get. There's a good likelihood the dad back home watching the kids will suggest picking up a Blu-ray disc. I see lots of people talking on the phone in Wal-Mart's electronics dept. At least a few of these people are talking about a product they're looking to buy apart from the usual meaningless cell phone chatter.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-20-2009, 03:51 PM:

Bobby,

Wal-Mart started in late October online pricing the top 10 dvds for sale at $10.00. Poor reporting by the writer of the article.

The WMs in my area have been at the lowest price on BR the past month. Best Buy is usually the same as well with Target higher. There has been at least 1 title each week where WM has been cheaper than BB. Of course all stores can price items differently.

as far as breadth of titles goes: the overwhelming majority of people want to buy what just came out. So WM is satsifying probably 75% of demand. The rest just sits and takes up space. But (and the same applies for rental stores too) most markets of at least 50,000 people can support one store with a very large selection of titles. Best Buy satisfies that niche. Those prices are high too on those titles (at least vs. Amazon).

Home video is no different than theatrical. The top four movies this weekend accounted for 75% of ticket revenue.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 01-06-2010, 04:06 PM:

From TVTechnology

Walmart Keeps Up Blu-ray Push in Post-Holiday
01.06.2010

Walmart is continuing to enhance its CE departments in early 2010 in many of its stores within the U.S., with an emphasis on selling more brand-name HD and Blu-ray products from Sony, Samsung and Magnavox, along with more typical big-box stores brands such as the current top American seller of HD panels, Vizio.

The world's largest retailer's "Blu-ray Experience Areas" in a growing number of outlets aim to team HD hardware/software units and titles into a central sales area within its larger entertainment departments. For Blu-ray proponents, Walmart's initiatives are significant since the retailer has told various media and manufacturing groups in recent months that it believes its base of cost-conscious family customers are now seriously willing to upgrade from standard DVD (and lingering VHS tape) to Blu-ray.

Walmart's pricing strategies are targeted at encouraging further Blu-ray growth, according to published reports, primarily its much-publicized holiday sales promotion of a $78 Magnavox Blu-ray player — a price point which continues in many of its stores in early January (along with higher-priced brand-name players such as a $149 unit from Sony), according to its most recent insert in Sunday newspapers on Jan. 3.

According to consultant DisplaySearch Walmart now represents about a 30-percent market share for sales of Blu-ray Disc titles, coming close to tying Best Buy, America's top overall CE retailer which had a more distinct lead in both Blu-ray players and software (titles) until recently.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-06-2010, 05:14 PM:

quote: Bruce Hansen
its base of cost-conscious family customers are now seriously willing to upgrade from standard DVD (and lingering VHS tape) to Blu-ray

And why not? With players less than $100, disks at $10, and BD players able to play their old DVDs, what's stopping them?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-06-2010, 06:34 PM:

I was at the Honolulu Walmart late this morning and have noticed the store has expanded their Blu Rey selection and the discs are now displayed in three sections of the home video software department. The store already had the remake of FAME in Blu Ray on their shelves a week early.

-Claude