Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Non action/sci/sfx films with excellent 5.1 sound mixes

This is topic Non action/sci/sfx films with excellent 5.1 sound mixes in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000903

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-08-2010, 04:08 AM:

I was watching "Any Which Way You Can" the other day on DVD with a 5.1 mix. What an amazing mix. The channel seperation was outstanding. Lots and lots of use of the rear surrounds and the front seperation was very good.

Cars starting off in the rear surrounds and then making their way to the front.

The scene with Clyde throwing around the door panels just shows of the surrounds.

Not much use of the subwoofer but just hearing the surrounds so much for a movie that is a comedy was nice.

Out of all movies, I never would of thought a film made in 1980 with DVD 5.1 remix would perform so well on a 5.1 system.

Anyone else have any others that come to mind?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-08-2010, 10:32 AM:

The Lt/Rt of "Pure Country" is one of my favorites. I'm looking forward to hearing the DVD 5.1 remix. I ordered it from Amazon on Friday and I think it arrives tomorrow.

It gets loud at times I love the opening reel because it shows off dynamic range -- starting small and gradually becoming HUGE -- impressive since this wasn't originally a digital 5.1 mix (original release was SR). If your room acoustics and tuning are good, you should have no problem cranking the volume. If it takes on a piercing quality at reference level, then you've got problems.

Listen for dialogue intelligibility, especially in the first concert scene -- man goes up to Lesley Ann Warren and talks to her in the audience -- it should be very easy to understand even though the "live" music is still pretty loud.

I also remember liking the sound of "Thelma and Louise" overall but it's been a while. Maybe I'll watch it again this eve and collect my thoughts.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-08-2010, 11:18 AM:

Incorrect Manny, I played this movie in SRD. That first reel was spectacular.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 11-08-2010, 11:29 AM:

Is Any Which Way You Can one of those Chace Audio conversions from the original mono or Dolby Stereo? They do some pretty amazing work on restoring old soundtracks to make them sound more modern.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-08-2010, 12:18 PM:

quote: David Stambaugh
Is Any Which Way You Can one of those Chace Audio conversions from the original mono or Dolby Stereo? They do some pretty amazing work on restoring old soundtracks to make them sound more modern.

I can't imagine that is didn't have a Dolby Stereo track. Both Every Which way But Loose and Any Which Way you Can were huge hits. The first would of had the success to warrant a stereo track in the budget.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-08-2010, 02:23 PM:

"Every Which Way But Loose" & "Any Which Way You Can" were both mono releases when they can out in 1978 and 1980. Imdb has "Any Which Way... listed wrong as a Stereo.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-08-2010, 03:28 PM:

quote: Bill Gabel
"Every Which Way But Loose" & "Any Which Way You Can" were both mono releases when they can out in 1978 and 1980. Imdb has "Any Which Way... listed wrong as a Stereo.

I find this response very hard to believe. A movie with Clint Eastwood at the time (the biggest star in the world) and Warner Bros Pictures producing the picture then releasing a movie in mono. No way!

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-08-2010, 03:45 PM:

Our print of PURE COUNTRY was SR only. There must've been dual inventory.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-08-2010, 04:20 PM:

At the time 1978 the film was a surprize hit to Warner, the budget was not a large one. At one point it was offered to Burt Reynolds who gave it to Clint. A few excutives in the glass building just off the lot said it was un-releasable. They were wrong, it performed well along side of "Superman". The release prints were 35mm mono sound on both pictures.

It may be hard to believe.

The dvd's are studio re-mixes.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 11-08-2010, 05:03 PM:

Mono sound on comedy movies was very common through the late 1970s and well into the 1980s. It didn't matter who was making the movie nor whether the movie was expected to be a hit. Imagine this: Tootsie had Dustin Hoffman and Teri Garr in Oscar-nominated roles. Jessica Lange won an Oscar. It had a big, hit, Oscar-nominated song performed by Stephen Bishop. The Oscar-nominated cinematography was 'Scope. But the Oscar-nominated sound was absolutely monophonic (although it's probably been remixed for DVD by now).

So why wasn't it in stereo? Probably because almost nobody used stereo sound for non-action comedy movies at that time.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-08-2010, 06:40 PM:

...and I'm told the original theatrical release of TERMINATOR was mono -- because the special effects gobbled up all the budget...

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 11-08-2010, 06:51 PM:

Even action action films such as the first CONAN movie as well as it's two sequels was in mono as well as DIRTY HARRY and many action films, Stereo sound movies was pretty much of a rarity except for 70mm films during that time.

-Claude

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-08-2010, 10:48 PM:

Does anyone else know of any movies that are more dialogue or comedy driven movie that use the 5.1 seperation well?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-09-2010, 07:36 AM:

This is a tough one because, as a rule, dialogue is placed in the center channel - that's what it's there for. When I was learning sound design and mixing, we were totally discouraged from placing dialog elsewhere.

My guess is it'll be hard to find very many "dialog-driven" movies with fanciful use of 5.1 channels. I know there are exceptions but I'm blanking right now. Two movies come to mind right away (voices in surrounds) -- One is SCREAMERS and the other one, I can't remember the name -- they're both sci-fi anyway...

As I recall, AMADEUS makes good use of stereo.

I'm curious what you want them for..? It might help when it comes to making recommendations.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-09-2010, 11:48 AM:

> Any Which Way...

Mono.

The original release posters have no reference to Dolby for either film. Stereo was the exception, not the norm, back then.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-09-2010, 11:54 AM:

quote: Manny Knowles
I'm curious what you want them for..? It might help when it comes to making recommendations

I am just curious about which movies might have them. I was totally shocked to find the surrounds in "Any Which Way" to be so active.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-11-2010, 01:01 PM:

Basically, just about any movie made by Pixar will have an excellent sound mix. Nice use of split surrounds, good sound effects, and an overall balance that puts most other studios to shame.

Movies that stand out off the top of my head are Wall-E, Cars, and Ratatouille.

There is a scene in Quigley Down Under when Tom Selleck shoots at a bucket at a great distance which shows off the use of surrounds as the gunshot echoes. I used that scene extensively when auditioning surround speakers/configurations.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-11-2010, 01:14 PM:

quote: Tom Petrov
just curious about which movies might have them

Okay, so does it matter if it's not the original mix?

I'm sure you already know that the home-video release frequently features a "new 5.1" re-mix. Are you simply testing/enjoying your system, or are you looking for examples of surround use in original mixes? If you're just geeking out then it might not matter much to you but if you're conducting some kind of "study" then it might matter more, depending on the scope of what you're studying (original theatrical, and/or re-release, and/or home-video releases).

Even if the film was not remixed, many home-video masters are dynamic-range compressed because (until digital) there wasn't enough headroom in home-video formats. So, depending on the age of the h-v master, there may still be a different in at least that one respect.

Not that these guidelines were always followed, but Lt/Rt mixers shied away from doing too much with the surrounds. They were usually reserved for ambiences -- the static bed of background noise (crickets, cicadas or light wind, for example).

Occasionally, a "hard effect" might get placed there but "steering" issues (and the fact that the surround array was mono) limited how much surround panning could be done.

Of course there are older movies that were given the 70mm treatment -- and, thus, had discrete physical tracks to work with -- so those print masters could appear on the DVD release.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 11-11-2010, 10:30 PM:

There is some kind of post release "voo doo" going on with the DVD releases: Airplane, 1980, released in mono theatrically. DVD version Dolby Digital: English 5.1 Surround English 2.0 Surround, French mono.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 11-12-2010, 12:24 AM:

quote: Manny Knowles
Okay, so does it matter if it's not the original mix?

I'm sure you already know that the home-video release frequently features a "new 5.1" re-mix. Are you simply testing/enjoying your system, or are you looking for examples of surround use in original mixes? If you're just geeking out then it might not matter much to you but if you're conducting some kind of "study" then it might matter more, depending on the scope of what you're studying (original theatrical, and/or re-release, and/or home-video releases).

Even if the film was not remixed, many home-video masters are dynamic-range compressed because (until digital) there wasn't enough headroom in home-video formats. So, depending on the age of the h-v master, there may still be a different in at least that one respect.

Not that these guidelines were always followed, but Lt/Rt mixers shied away from doing too much with the surrounds. They were usually reserved for ambiences -- the static bed of background noise (crickets, cicadas or light wind, for example).

Occasionally, a "hard effect" might get placed there but "steering" issues (and the fact that the surround array was mono) limited how much surround panning could be done.

Of course there are older movies that were given the 70mm treatment -- and, thus, had discrete physical tracks to work with -- so those print masters could appear on the DVD release.

I am just curious what other quiet non action movies really use the surrounds. It makes no difference to me if the mix is re-mixed. I was just shocked by Any Which You Can.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-13-2010, 07:59 PM:

Do you PREFER movies that use the surrounds?

Would you choose the original over a remix?

I'm just curious too...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-24-2010, 10:51 PM:

Pure Country was used to demo Dolby Digital during Showest that year. Brought me to tears (audio wise.) Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-25-2010, 12:59 AM:

I remember the fight scenes in True Lies sounding amazing. It was the first movie we showed in DTS.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-25-2010, 03:56 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
It was the first movie we showed in DTS.

It was the first film I saw in DTS too...mightily impressive. First on I showed in DTS was 'SPEED'.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 01-20-2011, 02:02 PM:

John -

You didn't see Jurassic Park in DTS?

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 01-20-2011, 02:18 PM:

Full Metal Jacket - 1987 Dir. Stanley Kubrick.

Original theatrical release in mono.

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 01-20-2011, 05:23 PM:

I believe most if not all of Woody Allen's movies have been mono. I read somewhere that there were 4trk mag mono releases of some of his titles.

I have one interesting DVD in my collection. The Sean Penn "Bad Boys" This is a mono disc, where unlike most DVD titles where you get a phantom center playing back in Lt/Rt mode, you will get silence as the mono track is mastered ONLY to the center channel of the 5.1 track.