Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What must I do to enjoy INCEPTION?

This is topic What must I do to enjoy INCEPTION? in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000932

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-31-2011, 02:43 PM:

I have heard only good things about INCEPTION when it was playing in theatres but it is not a ordinary film but one that requires a lot of concentration to understand what was going on. There was a lot on my mind when I tried to watch the Blu-Ray after renting it from Blockbuster when it was released and I was totally lost after the first half hour. I have a friend who bought the movie On DVD and watched it twice to understand what was going on. After I told him of my experience of watching the movie, he told me to make an effort to understand the film by watching it again in it's entirety and pay close attentIon to what was being said. Normally I do not waste my time on movies that I have a problem understanding but INCEPTION is a movie I would like to enjoy because of the good word of mouth and many Academy Award nominations and I like all of the special effects visuals I have seen. This time I will buy the Blu-Ray and watch it again tonight.

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-31-2011, 03:21 PM:

I currently have my Blu-ray of Inception loaned out to a friend (again). It's a great movie, but one where it's easy to lose track of what's happening if you miss some crucial details.

I don't think this is quite a spoiler, but the most important plot device the viewer must understand is the notion of dreams within dreams. When we dream, we're going into it at only one level. The mind spies in Inception are diving into multiple levels: dreams inside of dreams. Additionally with each dream level downward the passage of time elongates. This allows for the various action sequences that are all happening in parallel to take place during the film's climax.

When you keep track of the different pieces of action that are happening at different levels and how they tie together the movie becomes a lot of fun to watch. I had a real "movie high" moment watching it all come together in the end as each dream "kick" at different levels were delivered. It was also great how the movie had an emotional core that dealt with the importance of memories and love lost. That helped flesh out the characters into more than just 2D cut outs thrown into a labyrinthine plot.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-31-2011, 03:52 PM:

I stopped it at 15 minutes and fell asleep. Maybe it's a good movie, but I couldn't get into it.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-31-2011, 03:54 PM:

Thank you, Bobby [Smile]

Can't wait to pick up the Blu-Ray and watch it tonight.

I had no problems with the receiver I reported I was having problems at another thread last night and I am hoping for the same tonight when I watch INCEPTION.

-Claude

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-31-2011, 05:26 PM:

I've found that multiple viewings really help with Inception. I loved it upon my first viewing, but it just gets better and better.

Make sure to crank the sound on this one too: a great mix!

AJG

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-31-2011, 05:58 PM:

I was able to catch pretty much everything on my first viewing of Inception, but then again my brain was custom made to order by scientists in a lab. [Smile]

Anyway, a lot of people have a difficult time imagining dreams within dreams. Look at it this way: When you are dreaming, you can actually dream that you are asleep and dreaming. That is a dream within a dream. I have had this happen many times before. I was having a weird dream and I "woke up" to discover what had happened was just a dream. Then I wake up to reality and find out that was just a dream. It's weird, but cool.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 01-31-2011, 07:12 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
my brain was custom made to order by scientists in a lab.

It was a brain from Abby something or other; oh yes, it was Abby Normal.

Sorry Joe, I just couldn't resist.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-31-2011, 07:58 PM:

Are you inferring Joe is a gorilla?

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 01-31-2011, 08:24 PM:

Mighty Joe Young... (insert joke about MJY being better looking/smarter/funnier/more hygienic than JR here).

As everyone else has said, the key here is the concept of dreams within dreams. Like Nolan's other films ("Memento" in particular) you have to pay attention, or you'll miss something important, and there are things which are never fully explained, questions that the film provides no definite answer to.

Spoiler Alert - Click to Toggle
One thing I had to explain to Mom when I saw it with her (my 2nd viewing, her 1st) was how killing themselves while in limbo brought them back up. The way I understood it is: when you're at that level, you can't go any further down, so the only way to go is up.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-31-2011, 08:55 PM:

John,

Was MEMENTO the movie that featured a story told in reverse? I went to a theatre to see it because of the fantastic reviews I had read and walked out after watching about an hour of it. I think it starred Guy Pierce the actor who played King Edward V111 in THE KING's SPEECH . I just cannot get into watching MEMENTO and got totally frustrated after an hour and left. Despite the rave reviews the movie got, I never made another effort to see it.

-Claude

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-31-2011, 10:18 PM:

Maybe this movie is simply not Claude's cup of tea.

After all, one should not have to TRY to enjoy a movie. A movie should not require "directions for use." Nor should any explanations be necessary. Having to explain things to other viewers is a mark against a movie, in my opinion. And this movie needed a lot of explanation, judging from all the chatter that was going on in coffee houses, theatre lobbies and on chat sites.

Provoking discussions about issues and ideas might be a good thing, but provoking one-sided "discussions" where the Chris Nolan fan is "explaining" the movie to perfectly intelligent people is another matter altogether. And I witnessed too much of that going on. I wanted to throw a rock at some of those guys.

You either like a movie or you don't. And, usually, you know within the first 10-15 minutes. Based on your reaction to MEMENTO (yes, you remember it correctly) and now also INCEPTION, I'm thinking you don't go for these kinds of plots.

There are a lot of very popular, successful and/or "important" movies that I can't get through. Case in point: I usually disagree with the entire Oscar situation. I've just come to accept that I can't love every movie out there.

FWIW, I liked INCEPTION but I didn't LOVE it -- never got the urge to see it a 2nd time.

...and now...

...a FAR MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION...

Toggling spoiler alerts? Since when?

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 01-31-2011, 10:39 PM:

My suggestion would be to forget about watching the film for a couple of weeks, then come back to it when you aren't bothered. And don't try to think about it, just let the plot unfold in its own time. I didn't find Inception one bit confusing because they refer back to the upper layers of the dream constantly. I usually try to do this with my Cinema visits and avoid the hype that is involved with some titles. Sometimes this backfires, Scott Pilgrim got over-hyped to me and it left Cinemas quite quickly so didn't see it in the end. Burn After Reading was a similar situation, just watched that on DVD today actually and didn't care for it.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-31-2011, 11:00 PM:

I give the same advice for sufferers of "performance anxiety." [Razz]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-31-2011, 11:15 PM:

Inception isn't nearly the mental workout as Memento, although I enjoyed that movie quite a bit. Christopher Nolan's movies have a certain style to them and I'm sure they're not to everyone's liking. I agree if someone just doesn't like a movie he just doesn't like it. Explaining the plot probably isn't going to do any good.

But then there's also the issue of our society's collective attention span being very short. The viewer shouldn't need a prerequisite road map of explanation in order to enjoy a movie. However, most movies deserve our undivided attention. Some viewers don't supply that. So when they miss something because they weren't paying attention, well then they have themselves to blame and not the movie when they end up disappointed.

I'm not saying anyone in this forum does it, but I personally know people who watch movies halfway while they talk about other crap or do other multi-tasking activities. This is very common in home viewing environments. It's also common in theaters too. People carry on phone texting conversations with friends, talk to other people next to them, make trips in and out of the auditorium to visit the snack bar, bathroom, etc. instead of paying attention to the screen.

Knowing this behavior I've told just about anyone asking about Inception that it's important to pay attention. Don't use the movie as background for other crap. Inception isn't difficult to "get," but you really have to watch it with undivided attention to at least get it. Then if you still don't like it, well, you just don't like it and that's that. But at least the movie had its fair chance to entertain.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-31-2011, 11:23 PM:

Being such an avid movie collector, Claude strikes me as the sort of person who makes the good faith effort to appreciate a movie.

Hmmm... do "most" movies deserve our undivided attention?

Really? Most of them?

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 02-01-2011, 12:06 AM:

We deserve the movies pay off in the end if it is indeed good.
Sometimes we get out of it what we bring to it.

I was preoccupied with focus issues when i saw it and did miss some moments which kinda ruined my experience of it! [Frown]

I also was shocked by having to work at spotting the 70mm shot scenes! [uhoh]

My plan is to get the blu-ray and i hope to enjoy it properly.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-01-2011, 12:26 AM:

quote: Manny Knowles
Hmmm... do "most" movies deserve our undivided attention?

I guess it's your money. If you paid the dollars to watch it at a movie theater or rent a DVD/Blu-ray of it the movie must have had a certain appeal in the first place. So why not give the show undivided attention and a fair chance to entertain properly?

The movies I don't grant my undivided attention are typically ones I never intended to see.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-01-2011, 02:22 AM:

Generally speaking, I don't watch ads for movies and I also don't read reviews.

Getting excited about a movie based on marketing has led to great disappointment. The movie I end up going to see is either not the movie I was promised (I still remember hating CONTACT the first time I saw it), or the ad did too good a job at showing all the best parts (or the only good parts), sometimes including the ending.

Or else, the movie was over-hyped and could only be a let-down (even if it is good). This was almost the case with INCEPTION.

So, no -- I don't go to the movies with any expectation that it's going to be something I am going to like. I have seen MANY movies without having ever heard of them. Many times, it was simply a matter of having some time to kill and buying a ticket for whatever's starting now, or soonest.

As a result, I have to pay a lot of attention when the movie starts in order to understand the setup, etc. I usually know within the first reel whether this is a movie that needs (or deserves) my undivided attention. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with liking a movie -- but if I don't like it then I'm definitely not compelled to show it any undue level of respect (which might include falling to sleep or leaving).

Same applies with Netflix -- if I'm not feeling a particular movie within 10-15 minutes, the rest of the movie may serve as wallpaper -- or the disc might just come out of the player and go right back into the envelope.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-01-2011, 03:02 AM:

Good ones do, Manny. And I think lots of times you need to be in a certain frame of mind to tackle a complex movie that demands attention. Just like you have to be in a certain place to want to sit down to read a serious book.

Knowing Claude from his posts and what he says he enjoys, I agree with Manny that he takes his movie experience seriously so my suggestion would be for INCEPTION and maybe even MOMENTO, would be to give them a second try, especially INCEPTION -- could be you just need to be in a certain mindframe.

Sure, watching a film that requires attention and some intellectual involvement where, instead of letting it happen to you passively, you need to engage with what the filmmaker is building, the reward can be well worth the work and is usually in proportion to the attention you bring to it.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Inception isn't nearly the mental workout as Memento

Watching MOMENTO is to the mind what taking a 5 mile run up hill when you are out of shape is to the body.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 02-01-2011, 04:58 PM:

I definitely have to see Inception again, because when I saw it in the theater, the show was interrupted by a PA announcement that a tornado had been spotted several miles away, and that we should all stay in the theater as it was the safest location in the building.

Between leaving the auditorium (I don't listen well) to call home to warn my family, and dealing with the ushers who were on my case for not listening to the PA announcement, my concentration was not at the level it needed to be for a movie like this!

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 02-01-2011, 05:11 PM:

I'm surprised the warned you about the storm, as it may have been better to just let the audience escape while they were most likely safer not knowing.

AJG

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-02-2011, 12:30 PM:

INCEPTION is turning out to be a hard nut to crack but I will not give up. It is turning out to be a tough challenge like a difficult crossword puzzle and I have decided to stick with it. I watched about an hour of it last night and since I have no plans tonight, i will watch the movie from the beginning again and hopefully, I will have a better understanding what is going on. After giving up watching the rental, I seem to get a better idea what the movie is all about after seeing the first hour of the movie last night. Hopefully, I will be able to watch the entire movie tonight with a full understanding what Christopher Nolan had in mind and enjoy it. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-02-2011, 03:12 PM:

It kind of-sort of helps to watch the movie in its entirety the first time and THEN go back and rewatch if you need to.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-02-2011, 03:44 PM:

Joe,

Normally I only buy movies that I feel I would enjoy and possibly watch it again later but I decided to rent it first because I heard how confusing the story was for many people. After renting INCEPTION and watching about fifteen of the movie, I agreed with some of my friends who did not like it because they could not understand what was going on and I was glad I did not buy it Once I make a decision I do not like a film, that is usually the end of it but for some reason, the thought in the back of my mind kept on telling me give INCEPTION another chance. This was the first time I bought a movie I did not like when made an effort to watch it earlier but I did so only because I wanted to take my time and do as a friend had suggested by watching it more than once to fully grasp the story and enjoy the film. The decision to purchase the Blu ray was only due to a Five Star review of the movie in the current issue of Home Theatre magazine I subscribe to.

I was planning to watch the movie in it's entirety last night but I felt it would be better if I took my time with it and fully understand what was going on before I watch the rest of the film.

-Claude

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-02-2011, 05:18 PM:

The thing is, some things aren't meant to be understood until you view the movie in its entirety.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-02-2011, 05:37 PM:

With a film like INCEPTION, I respectfully disagree, Joe

-Claude

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-02-2011, 06:55 PM:

How can you say that not even having seen the whole thing? I don't understand why this and Memento are considered such a mental exercise.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 02-02-2011, 08:53 PM:

Maybe because I've seen the movie north of 80 times in its entirety. I just don't see what everyone's concerns with it being to hard to grasp during the first viewing. After we were done tech screening it I understood what happend and wasn't questioning the end. I know everyones diffrent and I'm not saying this to knock anyone on here. Nolan gave you a character so he could explain every single thing that happens in the movie. Ariadne is the viewer in the movie, everytime something needs to be explained to the viewers. It gets explained to her. I honestly think people over thought this movie, and made it "harder" to follow then it really is.

Claude I'm not sure why your disagreeing with Joe on that one, you haven't seen the movie so you don't know what might be shown in the last half that could explain the film.

I also agree with Manny, if you need a movie drawn out for you or you need to force yourself to sit through one. Then the movie is really probably not your cup of tea and your better off just moving on to the next film you wanna see.

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 02-04-2011, 01:22 PM:

quote: Claude
After giving up watching the rental, I seem to get a better idea what the movie is all about after seeing the first hour of the movie last night.

I'm not sure I understand THIS. [Wink]

Are you implying that you would have an easier time understanding the film -- conceptually, not audibly -- by watching it on Blu-ray, rather than DVD? It's the same movie, story-wise.

-David

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 02-05-2011, 12:16 AM:

The movie is nothing other then nested sub routines. Had it been made in the 80's, it would have been a spaghetti style plot which would have been very messy trying to understand.

So Joe, you are saying that you don't have a real brain but rather a scientifically created brain which is a functional simulation of the physiological processes in the human brain. That explains everything and for that reason - you shouldn't be trusted.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 02-24-2011, 09:19 PM:

I saw this movie in a theatre and I enjoyed it. I looked forward to a DVD version to find out how they made the movie. Unfortunately, I rented it from Netflix. I believe they must be offering a DVD which was specifically "made for rental." There was absolutely no behind-the-scenes material. Okay, maybe since I wasn't willing to BUY the movie then I don't deserve to know anything about how it was shot.

But wait! The DVD I rented from Netflix had several minutes of non-skippable ads at the beginning. I couldn't use the "Menu" or "Top Menu" or "Next" buttons. Worse, they even disabled the "Stop" button during the ads! All I could do was scan through the ads at fast-foward speed. It was a VHS-style experience... and it was rubbish.

By the time the movie started I already didn't care. I watched it for 5 minutes and then let it play for another 15 minutes while I wasn't paying attention. Then I returned it to Netflix. Boo, Warner Brothers! Boo!

There is NO WAY I will buy this movie now, no matter how the non-rental disc might be different.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-24-2011, 11:09 PM:

Greg,

It is now a common practice by Warner Brothers and Fox to release only the movie along with some promotional materials on Blu -Ray and DVDs. When I choose to rent a movie, I do not care if there are no bonus features because I am only interested in watching the movie and I have no problem with discs that do have them. Even if a disc had them, I seldom take the time to watch them unless there are something interesting like the documentary about film editing on the BULITT Blu Ray I wached last night or the History of the Technicolor process on the ROBIN HOOD BD starring Errol Flynn.

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-24-2011, 11:23 PM:

quote: Greg Anderson
I looked forward to a DVD version to find out how they made the movie. Unfortunately, I rented it from Netflix. I believe they must be offering a DVD which was specifically "made for rental." There was absolutely no behind-the-scenes material.

Warner Home Video does this with all their rental Blu-ray discs. I run into the same problem when I rent Warner Bros. movies on Blu-ray from our local Hastings store.

And yes, those discs are very aggravating. A WHV executive's legs wouldn't work anymore either if he came anywhere near me after I had just tolerated one of their rental Blu-ray discs.

At least with a freaking VHS tape you could fast forward past all the ads and have the movie cued up to its start point. You can't do that with any Warner Home Video rental Blu-ray.

This is basically the studio's way of trying to twist the customer's arm into buying the retail version of the Blu-ray disc. It sort of has the reverse result with me. I usually don't bother buying the disc and don't rent the stupid thing either. I just wait for the movie to show up on HBO.

I did buy Inception on Blu-ray, but overall I'm buying a lot fewer movies from Warner Bros. than I did before.

One other complaint about those Warner Bros. rental Blu-ray discs, they look nearly identical to the DVD versions. The other day I rented The Town from Hastings. I was standing in line at the register when I looked at the disc and saw a tiny DVD logo on it. The staff people mixed some DVD versions in with the Blu-ray discs, despite Blu-ray having a separate section in the store! I went back and grabbed a correct Blu-ray version and then complained to the cashier about the stocking situation.

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
When I choose to rent a movie, I do not care if there are no bonus features because I am only interested in watching the movie and I have no problem with discs that do have them.

Actually, I prefer it if the rental disc does have all the features of the retail version. I rarely "blind buy" movies; I only buy movies I know have plenty of repeat viewing potential. Typically I either see the movie in the theater or rent it first before I buy a copy to add to my collection of discs. The rental is a test drive. If Warner Bros. wants to give me a shitty test drive experience with their Blu-ray discs they're going to get a lot less money from me.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 02-25-2011, 12:18 PM:

With all the issues that can be going on at any time, the fact that you guys get so pissed off because of some ad on a RENTAL blu-ray or DVD is crazy. Big freaking deal, if you don't want the ad or the theft warning. Then buy the damn movie, oh wait your sticking it to them because your not going to rent it or buy it because the studio is trying to screw the consumer. Greg I don't know how an ad that you had to fast forward could make you so upset at a movie that you couldn't watch it. Sounds like you might be a little high strung. If you don't want to watch the ad, get up go the bathroom or go to the kitchen and fix yourself a nice cold glass of tea or what ever you want to drink and chill out. Its not the end of the world that WB doesn't have a skip feature on their Blu-Rays

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 02-25-2011, 02:12 PM:

Oh, yes, I'm the one who's high strung here at Film-Tech. [Roll Eyes]

We've been conditioned to tolerate "forced" material on DVDs where certain buttons on the remote are specifically disabled by the disc. But this thing with Inception was over-the-top.

quote: Kurt Zupin
With all the issues that can be going on at any time...

Um... this thread isn't about "all the issues that can be going on" right now. What are you talking about? Egypt? Wisconsin? Unemployment numbers? Well, this is the wrong web site for that stuff. This is, however, a web site about showmanship and giving the customer a good time when they're paying for entertainment.

quote: Kurt Zupin
If you don't want to watch the ad, get up go the bathroom or go to the kitchen and fix yourself a nice cold glass of tea or what ever you want to drink and chill out.

As I said, this particulat set of ads was over-the-top. In the time it would take to let them all play, everyone in the house (and a few invited guests) would all have to use the bathroom consecutively. I just don't want this to become the norm for rented discs. You'd have to put the DVD in the player at the same time you start pre-heating the oven for the pizza in order to get the timing right. Are you really saying that's okay with you?

What's next? If I download a single song from iTunes should I be "punished" for not buying the whole album? Should I be forced to listen to an ad for other songs each time I attempt to listen to the one I bought? Whenever I re-open a 2-liter bottle of Sprite should I be forced to read an ad for Diet Coke before I'm allowed to pour?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-25-2011, 05:30 PM:

Claude, getting back to Memento, I heard there was a version of it on BluRay that has it happening in 'forward' order. I'm not sure if that's true though but it may be worth looking into.

I know someone also who has 2 prints of Pulp Fiction. One is in its original form and the other he has cut into sequential order.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-25-2011, 06:48 PM:

The new Memento does not offer a chronological viewing option. It's the same as the old Blu-ray, just with more extras. It might have a new transfer. It's extreme double-dipping as the previous Blu-ray was in no way bad.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 03-06-2012, 09:27 AM:

It has been 374 days since the last post.

Posted by Jeff Kane (Member # 6372) on 03-06-2012, 09:27 AM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
If you don't want to watch the ad, get up go the bathroom or go to the kitchen and fix yourself a nice cold glass of tea or what ever you want to drink and chill out. Its not the end of the world that WB doesn't have a skip feature on their Blu-Rays

[rant]
My media player. I own it. Even on a VHS it was possible to fast forward. That some asshat middle management puke can decide to lock out the controls on a device I own? Drives me batshit. If I had the address of the person in question I might go buy up a bunch of ex-rental discs, bag 'em up with some readily available organic bovine-produced waste fuel, ship them to said fuckwit, and thus express my opinion.

The irony? If I download the content illegally I don't deal with any of that crap. If I rip the disc I can eliminate all that. If I play by the rules? I'm penalized. Hollywood has a very twisted view of the value of their content and the level of control they deserve over my life in their drive to protect and profit from it. But that's not news to anyone. See DCI and all that mess. Even when THEY fuck it up for the exhibitors, they still expect the people who got 'em where they are to clean up their mess.

[/rant]

[EDIT: Damn, I missed the 2011 on the date. Apologies y'all!]