Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Tom joins the ranks of the Elite

This is topic Tom joins the ranks of the Elite in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000953

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 03-31-2011, 09:16 PM:

My new baby. A deal I couldn't refuse.

Original owner
The remote, wrapping, box everything
Manual
Even the warranty card
AC-3 upgrade
Digital out
Legato Link Conversion with picture control

I tried it out. Wow! I am amazed at the picture quality over my old unit. I really like that I can sharpen the picture from the LD unit.

Also, my favorite feature so far is that when watching a movie and I turn the power off, it will start up at the exact same place where I left off.

I got a very rare Pioneer Elite CLD 53

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-31-2011, 11:50 PM:

Looks like you may want to wipe that thing off with some alcohol. Looks kind of nasty.

quote: Tom Petrov
Also, my favorite feature so far is that when watching a movie and I turn the power off, it will start up at the exact same place where I left off.

WOOOOWWW!! It's getting close to VHS and DVD quality there! What's next, the entire movie on one side?

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-31-2011, 11:54 PM:

A THX button. [Roll Eyes]

In all seriousness though, neato Tom!

AJG

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 03-31-2011, 11:58 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Looks like you may want to wipe that thing off with some alcohol. Looks kind of nasty

Thats the camera lense...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-01-2011, 01:42 AM:

No, I don't think so. Those buttons have definitely been pressed many times by dirty fingers.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-01-2011, 01:47 AM:

I concur with Joe. Also, you'll be glad to know that you can keep the warranty card for its valuable treasured collectible value, since if you send it in to Pioneer they will only chuckle as they're throwing it in the trash.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 04-01-2011, 08:11 AM:

Nice find. [thumbsup]

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 04-02-2011, 02:07 AM:

Thanks to those who are happy for me.

This is my third Elite product and I am impressed with them compared to other equipment.

This won't be my last Elite unit. I am sure a CLD-99 will show up somewhere

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-02-2011, 12:44 PM:

Anyone know where in the line the CLD-53 fell? I can't seem to find much info on it but it looks a lot like the CLD-D703/4 except with an elite badge. Of course, we know the CLD-79/99 were pretty close the 703/4 in terms of innards as well.

AJG

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-02-2011, 03:26 PM:

Call me crazy, but I just don't get the appeal of Laserdisc collecting in 2011, at least for titles that are available in better formats. I can completely understand why people have film setups or vintage professional video equipment (2" quad, etc.) at home, as those are original formats for many productions. I can also understand collecting music on vinyl, due to the larger cover art and the fact that many recordings sound better on vinyl than on CD (for a variety of reasons).

On the other hand, Laserdiscs are a consumer format and aren't an "original" format for anything. At best, a Laserdisc is a representation (think "postcard") of original film or video material. Given that, don't more modern formats give a better representation of the original in most cases?

I certainly understand why people with large existing collections (which likely predate DVD and Blu-Ray) would keep their disks and players, but I guess I just don't see the point of starting a new collection of Laserdiscs unless the disks themselve are very cheap or the titles that one wishes to collect are unavailable in better editions.

Maybe someone can enlighten me....

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-02-2011, 03:55 PM:

Although I have a small share of LaserDisc stuff, I am certainly no collector and obtained it all when LaserDisc was current. I agree about stuff being available on better formats. I think LD collectors like it because they feel not too many people knew about the format, so they feel elite. They do get the vinyl-sized artwork as well. Some claim LD has better sound than DVD sound. While I'm sure that is certainly the case on some titles, the overall claim seems debatable at best. LD picture quality is awful.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-02-2011, 04:02 PM:

I think there's a couple reasons Scott, at least to me.

Part of it is nostalgia no doubt: it's just fun still spinning those large discs. It's also fun just collecting them for the jackets alone, especially on big box sets.

I also think that some films on LD have what appear to me as a better sound than any other modern format. For instance, the DVDs of Indiana Jones have some wonderful 5.1 mixes in Dolby Digital, but I love having the LDs too because the PCM Dolby Surround is quite a lot of fun. It's also fun to compare some tracks between then and now on films you really really love.

Sure, my Blu ray of Mission: Impossible looks much better than my LaserDiscs, but the AC3 track on the LD is so much more fun!

AJG

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-02-2011, 05:52 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
I can also understand collecting music on vinyl, due to the larger cover art

Ummmmmmm...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-02-2011, 07:01 PM:

What? It's not like vinyls sound better than MP3s or anything. The studios mix and master in MP3.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 04-02-2011, 09:03 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I think LD collectors like it because they feel not too many people knew about the format, so they feel elite.

It has nothing to do with that.

For me, it is a hobby these days. I constantly check to see what i can find and then buy it. There is a certain sense of nostalgia when collect lds, I remember when I was a kid I had to save up my money from the movie theatre I worked and travel out of my to purchase a title I wanted, I had to really think if I wanted that title because the prices were so high.

Even today, my 6 hr drive to Montreal for a 300 set lot for a $1 each which luck had it that I did not have on dvd. My luck in picking up The Phantom Menace for $2, waiting and waiting for my sealed Titanic ld to come in the mail. These are all stories that DVDs/Blurays just can't deliver.

Also, knowing that the studios took the care to certify titles such as 48hrs, Trigger Effect, Mission Impossible etc with THX mastering whereas the DVDs and BR were shitty transfers. Also, some discs were gatefold wheras some got all CAV treatment or the special uber box sets with pictures of the movie and books etc.

Also, having to find a good player to get good quality playback and things such optical out or AC3 were not a dime a dozen.

I like upconverted dvd and blu-ray but I have no interest in upgrading my over 850 discs into either of these formats. Yes I do buy many more dvds that LDS and the occasional BR but searching, finding, browsing LDs is something DVD or BR just can't deliver.

quote: Aaron Garman
LDs too because the PCM Dolby Surround is quite a lot of fun

Most times the LDs Dolby Surround mix is better than the DVD Dolby Digital mix.

I have about 10 Blurays in my collection of 2000 movies, if the movies is bluray, that does not mean I will buy it.

Now if it was a new movie that was released recently, then yes I will get it in BR such as the upcoming TRON Legacy release.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-02-2011, 10:57 PM:

quote: Tom Petrov
Also, knowing that the studios took the care to certify titles such as 48hrs, Trigger Effect, Mission Impossible etc with THX mastering whereas the DVDs and BR were shitty transfers.

I can only speak for Mission: Impossible, but I wouldn't call it shitty. I think maybe what you mean is that back then, Paramount put what appeared to be effort into the LaserDisc, and it was one of the best you could get at the time and represented the state of the art for the mid 90s. The Blu-ray, on the other hand, does not represent what the format is truly capable of, and in fact a lot of studios are guilty of that.

AJG

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-02-2011, 11:44 PM:

Looks like my Pioneer CLD D-503 ...

It really comes down to in finding LD's in thrift stores in MINT condition for less than a buck.

- Monte

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-03-2011, 12:18 AM:

My final working VCR died on me last night. It was a Mitsubishi SVHS. Now I have nothing left to play my tapes on. Now what am I going to watch my studio-released Super VHS copy of Days of Thunder on? Too bad Pioneer didn't make 1337 VCRs.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 04-03-2011, 12:50 AM:

quote: Aaron Garman
I can only speak for Mission: Impossible, but I wouldn't call it shitty. I think maybe what you mean is that back then, Paramount put what appeared to be effort into the LaserDisc, and it was one of the best you could get at the time and represented the state of the art for the mid 90s. The Blu-ray, on the other hand, does not represent what the format is truly capable of, and in fact a lot of studios are guilty of that.

I think the whole industry put more effort info laserdiscs than they did DVDs. Its seemed liked they cared more about the laserdisc consumer than they did the dvd. There were about twice as many THX laserdiscs than there were DVDs.

There is just something to be said about my THX certified gatefold Pulp Fiction or my Criterion THX Robocop disc or the even my THX Dolby Digital English Patient disc.

Yes DVD are great too, but the quality of my 48Hrs discs exceeds the 48hrs dvd I once had.

There seemed to me be more of connection between studio/artist and the laserdisc owner than there is on DVD or BR.

The only studio IMO who appear to not care was Warner Bros. Only one movie ever got the THX certification and for the most part there were always packaged the same. Warner did support Dobly Digital.

If you had a good laserdisc player, there were a whole bunch of movies that looked and sounded better on LD than on DVD.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Looks like my Pioneer CLD D-503 ...

It really comes down to in finding LD's in thrift stores in MINT condition for less than a buck.

- Monte

Not sure if the 503 had a RF out, but the 53 and 704 looked the same.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 04-04-2011, 08:17 PM:

THX was just a marketing gimmick- it was a good idea, but they didn't actually do what they were supposed to with it. Supposedly the masters were quadruple-verified for the absolute best quality, but then how do you explain that "Stargate" laserdisc that had the PCM track out of phase, or the Star Wars box set with a shot accidentally cut out of "Empire Strikes Back" between side breaks?

A number of VHS tapes had "THX certification" too- that format really needed it more than laserdisc, but again it didn't really mean anything. THX standards should have forbidden pan and scan right from the start, but they didn't, so you had people watching Star Wars and The Sound of Music in pan and scan thinking they were seeing them in the absolute best quality since they were THX certified.

They sure as hell didn't monitor tape duplication quality either- I wish I could've kept the defective "Return of the Jedi" tape I'd received back from a customer when I worked at Tower that had the picture shaking side to side through the whole thing. I cracked up during the THX intro on that when I played it! My THX laserdisc of "Heavy Metal" got laser rot after just a few years, so they didn't have any standards for laserdisc manufacturing either. (I didn't have many THX theaters in this area until recently; now I see that their theater standards don't mean much either.)

Universal and Sony also used THX as an excuse to price their discs higher too- the aforementioned "Heavy Metal" was priced at $39.99 when Sony's usual single-disc movies were $34.99. At Universal, they released a few movies including "Timecop" and "The River Wild" in separate pan and scan and letterboxed editions, the letterboxed discs were THX-certified and the pan and scan discs weren't. They priced the letterboxed discs $5 higher than the pan and scan discs just because they were "THX"! Funny thing was I got slammed on the alt.video.laserdisc newsgroup back in the 90s for daring to criticize this- being a cheap bastard I usually spoke out against overpriced discs. I got one email from someone saying "If you think laserdisc prices are too high, I suggest you find a less expensive hobby." I'd love to know what he thinks about DVDs selling for under 5 bucks nowadays.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 04-05-2011, 01:11 AM:

I am about to pull the trigger on a Pioneer Elite CLD-99..........$500. Anyone have objections?

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-05-2011, 01:45 AM:

Well it is essentially the same as the 703/4 and the CLD-79, except for the 3D comb filter. One could debate endlessly if it really makes a difference or not now that we are in the age of digital displays.

It's a fine machine no doubt. If you have the money, go for it!

Or keep saving up for the HLD-X9. [Smile]

AJG

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 04-05-2011, 01:57 AM:

Aaron,

Does the 3D come filter really make a difference?

Also as for price. I am assuming $500 is a deal for a unit like this.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-05-2011, 02:57 AM:

quote: Tom Petrov
Anyone have objections?

Better your money than mine, pal.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-05-2011, 03:36 AM:

It's a big debate amongst LD users. In theory, a 3D comb filter should be better but in practice, it isn't always.

Read this for an interesting discussion on video processing, comb filters, etc. for LaserDisc. It might make your head spin though.

In my own setup, I've found the best image I can get is using the S-Video out on my CLD-79 (which has a 2D comb filter) into my DVDO iScan, upscaling to 1080p. I also utilize the DVNR on the Pioneer. The standard setting is decent, but I usually adjust for more reduction on the chroma and little to none on the luma. I'm still experimenting with those settings though.

I think $500 is high when you can get the 704 or the 79 for around $300-$400. See if you can bargain.

Good luck!

AJG

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-05-2011, 10:08 AM:

quote: Tom Petrov
I am about to pull the trigger on a Pioneer Elite CLD-99..........$500. Anyone have objections?

This is entirely an emotional decision, and any valuable advice would have to come from someone who shared your emotional connection, so I think I'm unqualified to comment.

That said, I think that there are many other ways that I would spend $500 to increase my enjoyment of movies in my home.

That kind of money would buy you a professional calibration to optimize your display and your sound system, so you can wring every last bit of quality that has been put into not only your LaserDiscs but all of your equipment and source material.

But I can appreciate the rush that comes from finding a rare item for a good price. Some time ago, I pursued the purchase of a Kenwood GE-7030 Graphic Equalizer for no other reason than to have that awesome 27-band display scratch my tech-toy itch!