This is topic Jurassic Park coming to Blu-ray on October 25, 2011!! in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-27-2011, 12:20 PM:
 
Jurassic Park

quote:
This October, Universal Studios Home Entertainment will bring one of the most popular film series of all time to Blu-ray: the Jurassic Park Trilogy. Based on Michael Crichton's best-selling novel, director Steven Spielberg's Jurassic Park created a world where science brought the dinosaurs back to life, a world further explored in its popular sequels The Lost World: Jurassic Park and Jurassic Park III.

Universal presents the Jurassic Park Trilogy remastered for 1080p, with all films shown in their original aspect ratios of 1.85:1 and given DTS-HD Master Audio tracks. In terms of special features, the Blu-ray collection will feature all supplements from the previous DVD editions, including (but not limited to):
The Making of Jurassic Park featurette
The Making of The Lost World: Jurassic Park featurette
The Making of Jurassic Park III featurette
Steven Spielberg Directs Jurassic Park featurette
Early Pre-Production Meetings
The World of Jurassic Park featurette
The Magic of Industrial Light & Magic featurette
Location Scouting
Phil Tippett Animatics: Raptors In The Kitchen featurette
The Jurassic Park Phenomenon: A Discussion with Author Michael Crichton featurette
Industrial Light & Magic and Jurassic Park: Before and After The Visual Effects featurette
Industrial Light & Magic and The Lost World: Jurassic Park Before & After featurette
The Industrial Light & Magic Press Reel
A Visit to Industrial Light & Magic featurette
Hurricane in Kauai featurette
Dinosaur Turntables featurette
The Dinosaurs of Jurassic Park III featurette
Montana: Finding New Dinosaurs featurette
Animatics: T-Rex Attack featurette
The Special Effects of Jurassic Park III featurette
The Sounds of Jurassic Park III featurette
The Art of Jurassic Park III featurette
Tour of Stan Winston Studio featurette
Feature Commentary on Jurassic Park III with Special Effects Team
Production Archives: Storyboards, Models, Photographs, Design Sketches, and Conceptual Drawings
Deleted Scenes
Theatrical Trailers
Furthermore, the Jurassic Park Trilogy has digital copies of the three films and over two hours of bonus materials newly produced for Blu-ray; the new material takes the form of a six-part retrospective documentary titled Return to Jurassic Park. This documentary - made up of the Dawn of a New Era, Making Pre-history, The Next Step in Evolution, Finding The Lost World, Something Survived, and The Third Adventure behind-the-scenes segments - features never-before-seen interviews with the cast and crew of the three films, including Jurassic Park and The Lost World: Jurassic Park director Steven Spielberg.

Exclusive to Blu-ray will be Universal's BD-Live, My Scenes, pocket BLU, Advanced Remote Control, Video Timeline, Mobile-To-Go, Browse Titles, and Keyboard interactive functionality components.

As previously reported, Universal will also offer the Jurassic Park Trilogy in a special "Limited Edition" Blu-ray gift set; check back later for further information on that version of the trilogy.

The Jurassic Park Trilogy streets on October 25th, 2011.

I just hope we get the original DTS digital experience trailer, but I'm not holding my breath.

AJG
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-27-2011, 03:54 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
I just hope we get the original DTS digital experience trailer, but I'm not holding my breath.

AJG


You need to get the DTS laserdisc for that. Is the discs going to be THX certified?

DTS has distanced themselves from that trailer.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-27-2011, 05:16 PM:
 
quote: Tom Petrov
Is the discs going to be THX certified?

No they is not have the THX certification. Does that mean no-sale for you, Tom Petrov?

This is a definite no-sale for me because I hate JP 2 and 3. 2 is OK at best, but simply not worth owning. Jeff Goldblum just can't carry a movie like that himself and the daughter's involvement in the movie was insulting to my intelligence. She sneaks on to the trip and uses gymnastics to attack a dinosaur? Maybe if I were mildly retarded I would find enjoyment in this.

When they sell JP 1 as a standalone, I will buy it. I would prefer it come without all of the extra nonsense as well. Just the trailers are fine. Don't need the making of. Don't need running commentary. Just give me the damn movie.
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-27-2011, 05:26 PM:
 
I already have the THX DD Jurassic Park LD and the THX DD Lost World LD. As for part III, i have the DTS DVD.

There really is no need for the BR for me. I like all three movies.

quote: Joe Redifer
Just give me the damn movie.
Treat yourself to the LD
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-27-2011, 05:41 PM:
 
I have the LD. I want it in HD with better sound.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-27-2011, 05:51 PM:
 
I have the DTS LaserDisc, and many other versions. I really want it in HD though and hope that the sound at least equals the LD experience. I used to have the DD LD too and I remember that being awesome as well.

THX on a Blu-ray? The only one I've ever seen is Avatar.

I'm a sucker for 2 and 3...what can I say.

AJG
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-27-2011, 06:08 PM:
 
Aaron.-I wouldn't bother getting the BR.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-27-2011, 06:24 PM:
 
But he would so that's all that really matters to him. I have it on LD and DVD as well and I will bother with the Blu-ray when it is available on its own.
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 06-27-2011, 07:21 PM:
 
Tom you seem to be against 1080p HD video on the Jurasic Park films?
Why?
LD discs are cool but picture quality is very wanting compared to Blu-Ray.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-27-2011, 08:34 PM:
 
quote: Tom Petrov
Aaron.-I wouldn't bother getting the BR.
Why? It's my favorite film of all time, there are plenty of extras, and I'm sure the 1080p video won't be worse than the VHS, LaserDiscs, and DVDs I already own. I'm very very curious about the audio. If it really makes me mad, maybe I'll learn how to "repurpose" the video with LaserDisc audio. [Smile]

AJG
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-27-2011, 08:35 PM:
 
I am with Aaron and very partial to all three JURASSIC PARK films. The first one is the best of them all but the other two are just as enjoyable. I had the DTS laserdisc but still have the full bit rate DTS DVD and the sound is just as good as the LD in my opinion. I am looking forward to finally having the opportunity to add the Jurassic Park films on Blu Ray to my collection after waiting for them since I started collecting the high definition discs. Tom seem to be the only one with a obsession with laserdiscs but in my opinion, Blu Ray rules! Everything that was great about the laserdisc will be there on the Blu-Ray including the awesome sound. This time, the BD's will feature 7.1 DTS HD Master Audio tracks and I envy everyone here who has the necessary hardware in their home theatre system to enjoy movies with that kind of sound mix.

-Claude
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-27-2011, 09:23 PM:
 
Hey Victor-I am against most re-releases in blu-ray. I was not impressed with one of the Star Treks, and The Running Man was horrible. Terminator II was pretty good and I hear that was from the Japanese HD Laserdisc Mule I think it was called.

quote: Victor Liorentas
LD discs are cool but picture quality is very wanting compared to Blu-Ray
Lasedisc picture is highly dependent on the a good machine and a good/later transfer. With a good machine, you will give a DVD a run for the money. As for BR, I am not a 100% but it seems to me that a lot of BR movies have had the colour changed or something like that. Just not always a fan. I have always thought LD looks the most like film.

Don't get me wrong, The Dark Knight looked and sounded outstanding!

IMO, re-releases on BR are just another way of milking people for their money, in most cases a well mastered DVD is good enough. New releases I am all for, just not the older ones. I was just not impressed with some of the older titles.

As for 7.1 sound. If it was originally mixed in it, then I am all for it.

And to Claude, Jurassic Park DTS DVD was half bit rate.

quote: Aaron Garman
I'm very very curious about the audio.
Well, I am not impressed that they are changing the 5.1 mix to become 7.1. That to me is all the more reason to stay away

quote: Aaron Garman
THX on a Blu-ray? The only one I've ever seen is Avatar.
There has been some. Terminator2, Indiana Jones4, Alien 1-2 (3,4 were not),
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-27-2011, 09:55 PM:
 
Where are you seeing anything about changes to 7.1 audio?

Another thing that will also make me not buy this set is the cheap, non-plastic cardboard packaging. Cheap cheap CHEAP! Hopefully the individual releases will come in real Blu-ray cases that don't get damaged just by looking at them.
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-27-2011, 10:07 PM:
 
Universal initially had a problem when they released the DTS DVD of JURASSIC PARK and had to repress it because the low frequency effects that was on the DTS laserdisc was not audible on the first pressings. Like all other full bit Universal DTS DVDs, JURASSIC PARK only features 5.1 track indicating I am correct when I say it is full bit rate.

Just because JURASSIC PARK was released to theatres with a 5.1 DTS track, that does not mean the movie have to feature that same track on the BD. Wonderful things can be done when a movie track is remixed for home video from existing original sound elements such as DIRTY HARRY which was released in mono but now features a fantastic 5.1 stereo track on Blu-Ray and DVD.

-Claude
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-27-2011, 10:09 PM:
 
I think another press release stated 7.1 audio, but later on in the specs it said DTS-MA 5.1. I'm hoping it's not a 7.1 remix, but the original mix that Rydstrom did way back when.

Why repurpose perfection?

AJG
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-27-2011, 10:14 PM:
 
The Digital Bits today reported JURASSIC PARK BDs will feature 7.1 tracks. I have no problem with 7.1 tracks although the original was in 5.1, Aaron. It will still sound awesome.

-Claude
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-27-2011, 10:39 PM:
 
I hope so!

AJG
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-27-2011, 11:26 PM:
 
quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Like all other full bit Universal DTS DVDs, JURASSIC PARK only features 5.1 track indicating I am correct when I say it is full bit rate.
Claude, the DVD must of had a DD track. From my source, it claims 768kbps

The original pressing possibly could of been full bit rate, but it was defective.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-27-2011, 11:59 PM:
 
All the Region 1 DVD releases of Jurassic Park that featured a DTS track had the track running at 754kb/s.

Regarding the audio requirement on DVD of a Dolby track, that's not really true. Minimum audio requirements on DVD for the sake of compatibility are CD quality Linear PCM 2.0 or Dolby Digital 2.0.

Not many DVDs were released with DTS and LPCM 2.0 tracks. Some music oriented titles like Eagles: Hell Freezes Over took this approach.

With Blu-ray, all of this is a moot point. All Blu-ray players must support Dolby Digital, DTS and LPCM audio and feature internal decoding and stereo output of all those formats. This may be one reason why DTS has become so dominant on the Blu-ray platform.

Another obvious reason why DTS dominates on Blu-ray: Dolby's audio encoding software is a lot more expensive than the DTS-HD audio suite. And it runs only on the Mac platform. DTS runs on both Mac and Windows. The Windows thing is particularly important since ALL the enterprise level Blu-ray authoring systems (Sony Blu-code/Blu-print, Sonic Scenarist and the various lesser suites) all run only on Windows.

quote: Aaron Garman
I just hope we get the original DTS digital experience trailer, but I'm not holding my breath.
I would love to see this as well considering the historical significance of DTS being launched with Jurassic Park. The thing I would really love to see is some sort of short feature about DTS and how it related to the audio production for Jurassic Park. The original, shorter version of The Digital Experience clip could be included in the featurette. As much as I would love to see this included, I figure the chances are 1 in a million it would happen.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-28-2011, 12:23 AM:
 
Who at Universal would you even request this to? I wonder how far they are in their production timeline to even think about including it?

AJG
 
Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 06-28-2011, 05:36 AM:
 
Tom Petrov:
quote:
LASERDISCS!!!!!1!11
It's over man, let it go.
 
Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 06-28-2011, 10:01 AM:
 
quote: Joe Redifer

I have the LD. I want it in HD with better sound.

the DTS LD has awesome sound - it's no slouch. 7.1? (well at least it will downmix to my 6.1 home theater setup)
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-28-2011, 03:43 PM:
 
quote: Tom Petrov
Claude, the DVD must of had a DD track. From my source, it claims 768kbps
Dolby Digital can only go up to 448kps on DVD.
 
Posted by Mike Rivest (Member # 5500) on 06-28-2011, 04:29 PM:
 
Tom from Oakville, That HD laserdisc system was called MUSE Hi-Vision.
more:
http://www.fahrenbruch.de/HVPLAYER.html
http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/muse_high_def_ld/Muse_high_def_ld.htm
The movies were $200-300 each (there is a used copy of Stargate for around $700).
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-28-2011, 04:48 PM:
 
Hmmm, the only other device I knew of that featured Hi-Vision specs was the Sega Saturn (never used in a game).
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 06-28-2011, 06:12 PM:
 
Thanks Mike, I knew it was something like that. I am looking at some of the prices, they are up there in value. Not sure what they were priced at when they first were released in Japan.

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I have no problem with 7.1 tracks although the original was in 5.1, Aaron. It will still sound awesome.
Wouldn't you prefer the original mix? I would, messing around with mixes can be very bad, Star 4-6 on DVD in EX are horrible and so is the mix of The Running Man 7.1 which was downright terrible.

But movies like The Dark Knight/Avatar are simply outstanding on BR.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-28-2011, 07:08 PM:
 
It can be bad, but that doesn't mean that it WILL be bad. All they really need to do is mess with the panning in the surrounds.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-28-2011, 11:40 PM:
 
Sound of Music is proof a good re-mix can be done. I'm holding out hope that JP will rock on Blu-ray.

AJG
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-29-2011, 03:57 PM:
 
I would have been perfectly satisfied with the original 5.1 soundtrack -- JURASSIC PARK is an important film for sound, historically speaking, and it's sad to learn that the amazing original mix is regarded as "not good enough" for the Bluray. I just can't imagine anyone complaining about JP not being in 7.1, especially if the original soundtrack was not mixed in that format. Would anyone honestly refuse to buy JP if the sound was "only" 5.1 ?

As for the visuals, I have to say that they have held up very well over the years. Hard to believe this movie is almost 20 years old. Perhaps not so obvious today is the fact that JP had the element of surprise with regards to CG at the time of its release. I doubt if anyone expected the effects would be THAT good. It was a quantum leap forward. For me, seeing JP in first-run was truly a spectacular experience.

I'd seriously argue that CG peaked with JP despite the fact that it was one of the first movies to use the technology. Sure, the CG technology has become more sophisticated, but JP remains one of the best examples of the application of that technology. Too often, CG does not "look real" to me.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-29-2011, 04:59 PM:
 
What Manny said.

I wonder if there will be a nice DCP available now since they are prepping it for Blu.

AJG
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-29-2011, 06:27 PM:
 
Yeah I can't imagine anyone not buying it because it isn't 7.1. I'd certainly buy it as 5.1. I also agree that the GCI has held up very well. They took their time doing that one. Current CGI looks too soft and fuzzy to me.

That said, Nightmare before Christmas made it to 7.1 with spectacular results.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-29-2011, 09:41 PM:
 
quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Wonderful things can be done when a movie track is remixed for home video from existing original sound elements such as DIRTY HARRY which was released in mono but now features a fantastic 5.1 stereo track on Blu-Ray and DVD.
If the original movie was mono, then it is possible that if they have access to the original elements that they could make a better mix...but leave the original theatrical 6 channel mixes alone!!!

Seriously, there are some movies that are remixed for a small room and they SUCK!
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-30-2011, 12:17 AM:
 
+1 Brad.

Mission: Impossible comes to mind. If the LD was the real deal 6 channel mix, then everything since has definitely been re-mixed.

AJG
 
Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 07-03-2011, 01:18 PM:
 
quote: Joe Redifer

Yeah I can't imagine anyone not buying it because it isn't 7.1. I'd certainly buy it as 5.1. I also agree that the GCI has held up very well. They took their time doing that one. Current CGI looks too soft and fuzzy to me.

That said, Nightmare before Christmas made it to 7.1 with spectacular results.

Even 'Fantasia 2000' sounded mighty impressive in 7.1

technically, Universal should do what Disney/Pixar did with 'Toy Story 3' in that the bluray edition has both the 7.1 AND the 5.1 soundmix on the same disc.

I'm hoping the extra surrounds are in the 90% (side) position and not flush with the left surround/right surround channels.
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 08-31-2011, 04:39 PM:
 
Aaron - Are you still hyped about this?
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-25-2011, 12:34 AM:
 
Well I've got it and running it now. Early observations:

-No DTS trailer. As if there was going to be one though.
-Image is pretty grainy but the best I've seen it at home.
-The re-mix is very very evident. It doesn't sound bad per se, but really different so far. They seem to have added echo to voice in certain spaces, like the visitor center lobby, and changed levels dramatically. Certain lines of dialogue are now louder than what I've heard, as well as many surround effects. Perhaps the surrounds being louder is a result of me watching at 7.1 mix in 5.1.

This raises an issue: this movie isn't THAT old. Why the hell can't they include the original sound mix? I'd imagine the master is still in existence. I blame the craze to add more channels of sound to the home theatre as causing this debacle. If 5.1 was all there was, we'd have gotten the original mix, perfect in lossless.

I'm kind of grumpy, but not surprised that this has happened.

Looks like my DTS LaserDisc is still relevant. [Smile]

AJG
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-25-2011, 03:12 AM:
 
How are the subwoofer levels?
 
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-25-2011, 04:29 AM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
Looks like my DTS LaserDisc is still relevant.
If they haven't changed the vision or audio framerates in any way, you could introduce the laserdisc sound to the vision of the Blu.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-25-2011, 05:45 PM:
 
Wow, the packaging sure sucks. Blu-rays are now just as bad as DVDs in this regard. They have perfectly sturdy boxes that already exist yet they choose this cardboard crap. Or worse, the steelbook nonsense that's over an inch taller than the rest of your Blu-rays. There is no decent packaging option. At least with the Star Wars movies, there was. I don't care if the Super Deluxe Ultra Special Champion Edition comes in a box shaped like a dinosaur head and includes a fossilized dino turd for the really idiotic collectors to buy, but give us plebes normal plastic boxes, please. Damn Hollywood hippies, the world has no use for you. Also, cardboard kills more trees (which is the only GOOD thing about these boxes, because I hate trees).
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-25-2011, 10:06 PM:
 
The subwoofer levels were good. Different again, but good. Anyone know how to get a set of the 6-track CD-ROMS to do a TRUE comparison? [Smile]

AJG
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-26-2011, 03:21 PM:
 
Call Steven. I'm sure he's got a set you could borrow. [Big Grin]

Considering how frequently repertory theatres are being told to "just run the Bluray" it is very important to retain the original mix. Even if it was mono (like the original Terminator).

Especially since the format allows for multiple track versions. Why not release with both the original and the remix?

Space issues, you say?

Who really needs the French dub anyway??? [evil]

As for the effects, I've often said that CGI peaked with JP.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-26-2011, 03:54 PM:
 
Those foreign tracks are at 768kb/s too.

Silly Universal.

AJG
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-26-2011, 04:49 PM:
 
Anyone else notice that you are made to sit through a Universal logo THREE TIMES? Is this really necessary? Their logo sucks, too. It's loud as shit and has some really crappy music. At least the third time was silent. Fuck, you, Universal. Fuck you all to hell. How the hell do I contact them about this bullshit?

Also, was Jurassic Park 3 a direct-to-DVD movie? Or did it somehow actually get a theatrical release?
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-26-2011, 05:31 PM:
 
I dig the Universal logo, but it had NO place in front of this movie the way it was. The 1993 logo was tasteful and welcomed.

A release like this really makes me wonder who is in charge of such things. These lackeys in their marketing department have no sense of taste or class or even historical perspective when presenting a classic film such as this. Sure, they probably want to have their product "branded" but to run two Universal tags in a row really ruins the mood of the film that is coming up and makes the whole company look like an idiot.

They should have thrown the DTS Digital Experience trailer in front of it to make this release ten times better.

I'm still peeved enough at the lack of the original mix, I'd like to learn how to make my own custom disc with the original mix. Something tells me I couldn't do it with a MacBook Air though.

EDIT:

As to not have two posts in a row, here is the letter I sent to Universal Home Entertainment.

quote:
Dear Universal,

I want to thank you very much for releasing Jurassic Park on Blu-ray. I was about 11 when it was released and it had a huge impact on me going forward. The magic of this movie inspired my love for films and I definitely consider it my favorite film, ever. To see it in high definition and have a nice assortment of extras is a real treat.

I am very sad to see that the original, award winning, and historic 5.1 mix was not included on this release. I can understand releasing the film with a new 7.1 sound mix for consumers with those setups, but to blatantly leave the original mix off of this release is a downright shame to film lovers and those who would like to appreciate the work that went into that original mix.

This is part of a growning trend in the home entertainment arena, and it is very unfortunate. Films not only entertain us, but they capture a very distinct moment in time that can live on forever. To not include something that was originally part of a film for the sake of "new technology" is troubling. Gary Rydstrom along with many other artist spent countless hours tweeking and refining the mix we heard in 1993, and throwing a lot of that work to the side is wrong. Given the significance of the film's mix, being the first film in DTS, any honest and estute home video department would make sure this is preserved for the years to come.

I hope my grievance reaches you well, and I also hope any future release of the film has the original mixes presented. To do otherwise seems cheap and lacking any sort of real perspective on a given film and its history in our culture.

Sincerely,

Aaron Garman

AJG
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-26-2011, 06:36 PM:
 
I agree with the content of your letter, but I'd shorten it up and make it to the point. I don't think people reading those have a lot of time. That's why I always puzzle over someone writing multi-paged diatribes to their senator/congressman.

My letter might be like this:
quote:
Dead Universal,

Thanks for releasing Jurassic Park on Blu-ray. But really, do we need two loud and unskippable Universal logos before the movie begins which has its own Universal logo? This is just ridiculous.

Also, with all of the space that Blu-ray has, why not include the award-winning 5.1 theatrical sound mix? Obviously you paid to remix the movie into 7.1. Was that cost-effective for you? At least give the option of the original mix, losslessly.

Fuck you very much
-JS Redifer, ESQ


 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-26-2011, 07:02 PM:
 
Joe, you are my hero.

AJG
 
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-26-2011, 07:27 PM:
 
I like both versions of the letter.

Make a Facebook page and get millions to join it and have each of them send a copy of the letter to Universal.

Then they'll have to give in and re-release it with all audio tracks. [Razz]
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-26-2011, 08:02 PM:
 
Sadly it wouldn't do any good until blood is shed.

But it really does speak about a major problem in home video: modifying sound tracks without preserving the originals. In the age of Blu-ray, there is no need not to include it. I just got back from Best Buy and glanced at a few discs of some age to see if they included original tracks, specifically some older Disney animation. They all had lossless of course, but most had what was called "restored feature audio" which I assume is an original track. The Lion King was one of the few that did not appear to have this, just an English 7.1 track. Thankfully some horror classics like Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween do have 1.0 mono tracks on them. They're lossy tracks, but at least we still can choose to listen to the original mixes. I had Nightmare at one point, and even though the 5.1 mix is well done, it's much more fun to watch that movie in mono.

AJG
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-26-2011, 08:58 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
Sadly it wouldn't do any good until blood is shed.
Kill someone. Or at least give them a nasty paper cut.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-26-2011, 09:09 PM:
 
I'd rather use 35mm to cut before it all vanishes. Those hurt so much worse than paper cuts.

AJG
 
Posted by Jeff Kane (Member # 6372) on 10-27-2011, 10:51 AM:
 
They didn't give us the original mix this time for the same reason Lucas didn't give us the original Star Wars cuts. They want to release an UltraSuperDuperCollection and ONLY have that as a part of it, 'cause they know some of us idiots (raising hand) will buy it. I'm sitting this one out though. My DTS LD sets are just fine.
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-27-2011, 02:01 PM:
 
Universal and Spielberg didn't do that with E.T. -- they included both versions in one combo pack -- so I wouldn't buy into the double-dipping theory here. (If that *is* their plan, they're gonna have to come up with more extras for that set than just the original soundtrack.)

This is more likely another example of how it is assumed that sound simply supports picture, and people don't really pay it too much mind.

Altering the *images* would have created a much greater scandal.

And the reason the original DTS trailer isn't there probably has something to do with the Datasat situation.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-28-2011, 11:18 PM:
 
Got a reply from Universal:

quote:
Dear Mr. Garman,

Thank you for contacting us. Our goal is to provide the highest standard in product quality and customer care, and we value input from our customers.

Many factors influence the content of our DVD and Blu-ray releases. The English Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround track is included on our DVD release of
"Jurassic Park Ultimate Trilogy," Your comments regarding the lack of that audio track on our Blu-ray release will be forwarded to the appropriate department.

We appreciate your opinions and your patronage, and we hope you will enjoy future Universal releases.

Sincerely,

Consumer Relations
UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOME ENTERTAINMENT

I kinda laughed and their response seems pretentious and automated. If it's the same 5.1 Dolby track from the DVD, it's definitely not the original mix. See here for a more scientific look at the various editions. I don't have the Dolby Digital LD version anymore, but flipping between my old DD DVD and the DTS LD is a night and day difference. The levels seem to match on my SPL meter, but the bass definitely has a different and more robust quality on the LD, but even the less compression seems obvious. The sound field just feels more open, cleaner, and beautiful.

I'd love to pick Gary Rydstrom's brain on this whole thing.

AJG
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 10-28-2011, 11:52 PM:
 
I am very glad you are getting a lot of usage out of the DTS laserdisc of JURASSIC PARK you bought from me, Aaron.

-Claude
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-29-2011, 12:18 AM:
 
Actually I already had that one before the mega sale...so I gave the extra copy to Mike Olpin as a gift of goodwill for showing me a good time at the Traverse City Film Festival.

Rest assured though, the other titles have definitely gotten some play time. [Smile]

AJG
 
Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 10-29-2011, 11:31 AM:
 
I feel so stupid that I just sold off my DTS laserdisc of 'Jurassic Park' - AND - 'West Side Story' which the bluray has it's own set of problems as well ... [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 10-29-2011, 10:32 PM:
 
What a rip-off. $60 for these three movies, no thanks.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-29-2011, 11:02 PM:
 
Things must be more expensive in Canada.
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-15-2012, 04:08 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
I gave the extra copy to Mike Olpin as a gift of goodwill for showing me a good time at the Traverse City Film Festival.
I'm sure Phil would say: "Hubba Hubba!" [sex] [Big Grin] LOL [thumbsup]

Did anyone notice that the Dolby Digital logo is now in the tail credits??? And the "DTS Stereo" (analog) logo is missing!

Aaron -- time to write another letter!
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-15-2012, 04:21 PM:
 
I'm curious about that actually. Does this perhaps give credence to the theory that some international prints were actually in Dolby Digital?

I want to say the DVD also had the same logos during the credits, which means the master could have been sourced from the same elements. I'll do some more digging when I get home. Yes, I am just that dorky.

AJG
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-15-2012, 05:29 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
I'll do some more digging when I get home.
"Because Grant is like me. He's a digger!"
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-15-2012, 05:51 PM:
 
Didn't Universal have an exclusive deal with DTS for a while? Once prints started to be "quad" (containing everybody's soundtrack) that probably had ended but I'm still surprised they would have changed the actual credits in the movie.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-16-2012, 12:08 AM:
 
Here first is the THX logo from the DTS LaserDisc as well as the CAV LaserDisc:

 -

Next is the Dolby Stereo and DTS logos. Both were on the DTS disc as well as the CAV set.

 -

And now onto what I found on the DTS DVD, the Blu-ray, and the Dolby AC3 LaserDisc.

 -

 -

 -

What all this means, I don't know. Certainly, I need to get myself a girl.

AJG
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-16-2012, 08:39 AM:
 
Aaron: Clearly they didn't change the credits just for those logos. How many other changes can you find? [evil]
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-16-2012, 09:11 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Didn't Universal have an exclusive deal with DTS for a while? Once prints started to be "quad" (containing everybody's soundtrack) that probably had ended but I'm still surprised they would have changed the actual credits in the movie.
Yes, Universal did have an exclusive deal with DTS to put it on all Universal Pictures releases after Jurassic Park. That exclusive deal finished at the end of 1997. I think The Boxer was the first Universal release to have more than one digital sound format on the print (DTS & SDDS). Blues Brothers 2000 was Universal's first Quad Format release, 2/6/1998.

As for the different logos on the film prints, that drives me nuts for the unsightly alteration they made to "The Digital Experience" logo. The DVD obviously uses the credit run from a different print inventory made after the original June, 1993 release. Dolby didn't start using the misleading "tri" logo (with the "verify theater format" crap) until the fall of 1993.

The unaltered digital experience logo didn't reproduce so well in small print sizes or rectangular spaces in ads made to hold some kind of Dolby logo. So they screwed around with the logo in really strange ways.

My guess on why a different print inventory (with crappy looking digital experience logo) was made: to get rid of the attached DTS trailer. When Jurassic Park was originally released every 35mm print had a DTS "digital experience" trailer attached. Theaters not equipped with DTS were supposed to remove the trailer. Many did not. So a lot of viewers saw the DTS trailer playing in analog when Jurassic Park was released. Universal kept doing this with other releases into 1994. The Paper is the last one I remember having DTS trailers attached to all prints. I don't know if other studios (like Paramount and New Line) were doing the same thing with their 1993 and early 1994 DTS releases.

Speed was the first movie I saw using the familiar standalone DTS trailer. That trailer is longer than the original DTS trailer. The original only featured The Digital Experience logo with "DTS in selected theaters" shown underneath in small letters. The logo would explode and the trailer was finished (no large "this theater features DTS" logo afterward). I liked the original in one respect that the disc explosion had a really nice wind effect that trailed off into silence -a great transition into the opening title card for Jurassic Park.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-16-2012, 09:56 PM:
 
I always thought the Digital Experience logo was cool but was surprised they didn't use the actual "DTS" logo itself in the trailer. Just putting the word "DTS" at the bottom probably didn't mean anything to anyone.
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-17-2012, 11:35 AM:
 
The DTS identity crisis...

"The Digital Experience" (and the different logos)
"DTS" vs "dts"
"DTS Stereo" (R.I.P.)
...and now "DATASAT."
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-17-2012, 08:36 PM:
 
Don't forget: DTS Digital Sound vs. DTS Digital Surround. Then you have DTS, DTS-HR, DTS-HD MA. I will say at least Dolby didi a better job branding their stuff, well, except for the mentioned Spectral Recording tag.

You also had people who thought it was Digital Theatre Sound, not Digital Theatre Systems.

Of course, it's all better than Datasat. [puke]

AJG
 
Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-19-2012, 01:31 PM:
 
The DVD of Jurassic Park does have the Dolby Digital logo in the end credits- I know this because someone mentioned it when it was released, and I double-checked it in a store and didn't buy it because of that. Yes, I'm that obsessive. I bought the Blu-Rays but haven't watched them yet, actually didn't remember the credits issue at the time- was kind of an impulse purchase.
 
Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 05-19-2012, 02:34 PM:
 
Well guys, I hear all this talk about Blu-ray and how great the sound and picture quality is but for my money I'm perfectly happy with DVDs and VHSs. Both my DVD player and my VHS player put out very clear pictures and great sound. In fact my VHS player has better sound response (especially in the bass range) than my DVD player and both are piped through the same stereo system. I really don't understand all this hype about something coming out on Blu-ray especially when it seems to be a way for the same companies who put out the VHSs and DVDs to generate more income from people who already have VHS and DVD players. They're not getting my money.
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-19-2012, 02:36 PM:
 
Aaron,
I was one of them who thought DTS stood for Digital Theatre Sound . Thank you for educating me. [Smile]

-Claude
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-20-2012, 12:30 PM:
 
quote: Robert E. Allen
I really don't understand all this hype
If you look at a VHS, then a DVD, and then a Blu-Ray of the same content on a large (50" or bigger) flatscreen, then you'll see the difference. If you use a tube-type TV, or even a smaller flat-screen, the difference is less obvious.

Is it possible to enjoy a movie just as much on a small, non-Blu-Ray screen? Absolutlely. I once watched "Die Hard" on a 13", tube-type, 2" speaker TV in our bedroom and enjoyed it just fine. It's all in what each individual wants to satisfy your entertainment desires. Some people can listen to music on a transistor radio and be perfectly fine.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-20-2012, 04:47 PM:
 
transistor radio? How many radios today do not have a transistor in there somewhere (within the IC)? Geeze gramps [Wink]
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-20-2012, 08:49 PM:
 
 -

That's interesting since the analog tracks on the 35mm prints were A-type and there was no SRD.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-21-2012, 01:14 AM:
 
Make ya wonder if somewhere along the line if some limited number of prints were struck that had SR/SRD.

AJG
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-21-2012, 10:20 AM:
 
The original print of Forrest Gump I just ran listed D.T.S/SR/SRD on all the leaders but did not have a Dolby Digital track.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-21-2012, 11:24 AM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
Make ya wonder if somewhere along the line if some limited number of prints were struck that had SR/SRD.
The North American 35mm prints of Jurassic Park never had any Dolby Digital tracks on them, despite the appearance of the misleading Dolby triple format logo on the end credits of that later generation print.

Numerous movies that were 35mm SR only (or even 35mm A-type only) released between the fall of 1993 and June of 1995 had the Dolby "tri" logo listed on the end credits and other pieces of advertising. It made some movies appear to have Dolby Digital prints available when they really didn't.

quote: Victor Liorentas
The original print of Forrest Gump I just ran listed D.T.S/SR/SRD on all the leaders but did not have a Dolby Digital track.
Separate print inventories for DTS and Dolby Digital were common in 1994. Some of the first "quad format" releases had separate inventories for different digital formats. I remember Die Hard With A Vengeance having a separate run of SDDS prints while other prints were DTS/SRD.
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-21-2012, 12:15 PM:
 
Yes I know but I don't recall Forrest ever having a Dolby Digital track on any prints? Anyone see a Dolby Digital of it?
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-21-2012, 02:11 PM:
 
I never saw Forrest Gump in Dolby Digital, but I'm absolutely positive it had Dolby Digital prints in its original release. I saw plenty of newspaper ads, particularly sites in New York and Los Angeles, advertising such shows.
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-21-2012, 02:21 PM:
 
I must say the sound mix for the Vietnam segments as well as the whole movie in general stood the test of time.Forrest Gump has one killer sound mix in D.T.S anyway.
This city never played it with digital sound before my one off screening the other night.
D.T.S was the only digital sound format in London at the time but Forrest played in SR houses only.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-21-2012, 03:07 PM:
 
Something interesting I've never compared, but I have the LaserDisc of Gump in AC3, and it is basically silent in the surrounds for most of the film, even the Vietnam battle scenes. It's unfortunate because the rest of the mix sounds pretty great.

AJG
 
Posted by Shawn Arndt (Member # 7159) on 09-10-2012, 09:42 AM:
 
From what I've read and heard, the DTS Laserdisc is the way to watch this movie due to the Bluray audio not being the same as the original theater DTS presentation. I've watched the Bluray and I agree....it just isn't as explosive or immersive as the original DTS.
 




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