Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New DVD and BluRay

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 06-16-2012, 03:05 PM:

Are their no releases on BluRay or DVD that warrant discussion? OH MY.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2012, 03:17 PM:

???

Like real theaters, there are dry spells. Nothing interesting is due out on Blu-ray for a long time. Who cares about DVD?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-16-2012, 03:57 PM:

I beg to differ. EVITA is due next week and THE ARTIST the following week.

joe, you might not agree with me but these films are considered very important by not only me but the MPAS and many others all over the world.

-Claude

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2012, 04:46 PM:

I don't consider any movie "important".

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-16-2012, 05:08 PM:

In the last couple of months I've bought and seen BDs of Godzilla, Chinatown and Wake in Fright.

Godzilla - picture transfer was a labour of love, clearly done from a good element and with detail in the midtones that I just don't remember from the last time I saw it, which was many years ago and on 16mm. As with many Criterion BDs, the audio was the letdown. There was a thread on F-T in which someone pointed out overly aggressive noise reduction and a consequent dead/tinny sound on their version of the original Solaris. This BD suffers from the same problem - lovely picture, pity about the sound.

Same with Chinatown, only this time they'd electronically buggered the audio about into 5.1 and without even a 1.0 original track option buried in a menu. Given how great the picture looked - bitrate was consistently high and the film grain aesthetic was still there and had not been digitally obliterated - this was also a let down.

Wake in Fright - very impressed with the restoration and BD mastering, not to mention the film itself! Very creepy - sort of like an Australian Straw Dogs...

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-16-2012, 06:14 PM:

Recent Blue Ray's for me was Criterion' A NIGHT TO REMEMBER about the Titanic disaster in 1912 and the five piano concertos of Ludwig Van Beethoven played by Daniel Barenboim and the Staatskapelle Berlin orchestra all on a single disc. I bought the DVD of NTR years ago and it is my favorite movie about the ill fated ship and when I read all the great reviews about the movie on blu ray, I had to have it. The picture quality of the movie is wonderful on DVD but it just cannot compare to the BD which is awesome.

The Beethoven disc is also grood but the camera work could have been better as well as the sound. This disc has been out for several year now and that may be the reason it is not up to current standard in my opinion.

-Claude

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-16-2012, 08:16 PM:

One of my last blu-ray purchases (sometime in late 2010) was one I really really enjoyed (if it had been a tape- or stylus-based playback format it would be worn flat by now, I played it so much): Joe Hisaishi in Budokan

It's a concert from 2008 celebrating the Japanese opening of Studio Ghibli's Ponyo and a celebration of the 25-year collaboration between composer Joe Hisaishi and director Hayao Miyazaki. Recorded by NHK at the 14,000 seat Tokyo Budokan, the sold-out concerts featured a greatly augmented (doubled to 200 musicians) New Japan Philharmonic World Dream Orchestra (Hisaishi is the pops music director for that band when he's not doing soundtrack work), a combined chorus of 700, a 100-voice children's choir, six featured singers, and a combined 160-piece marching band (two local high schools and two local junior high schools), all under the direction of Joe Hisaishi conducting from the piano - all together some 1160 performers on stage. Very Mahlerian to say the least! [Smile]

The two-hour program consisted of the music Hisaishi has composed over the years for Miyazaki's films created at Studio Ghibli (1984-2008). Many of the concert segments featured scenes from these films projected overhead on a huge screen (1.85 AR, approx 70' screen width, four overlaid NEC (I think) projectors).

Video quality ranged from good to acceptable - some of the images are fairly noisy. Audio on the blu-ray available in three choices - LPCM 2.0, LPCM 5.1, and DD 5.1. And no region code - it should play anywhere. Japanese (and some English) subtitles available. There is also a DVD version.

I absolutely cherished this disc!

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-17-2012, 12:09 PM:

Since I feel like it, here's two more Japanese blu-ray recommendations of late - Kinji Fukasaku's final film Battle Royale, and Beat Takeshi's updating and remake of the classic samurai "chambara" franchise, Zatoichi.

With Battle Royale, Fukasaku, a veteran of 50 some odd years experience creating violent yakuza and other exploitation films, was at the top of his game in 2000 with this bit of old fashioned ultra violence. In addition to Clockwork Orange, this controversial film has invited audience comparisons with other films like Lord of the Flies and most recently The Hunger Games.

At the turn of the new millennium Japan's economy has collapsed. With 10% unemployment, a nationwide wave of youthful violence and delinquency envelops the nation. Fearing loss of control, the national government imposes the Millennial Education Reform Act, a.k.a. The Battle Royale Act. Each year, one class of 9th graders is selected at random, gassed and sent to a deserted island, equipped with randomly selected weapons, and given their assignment: "Today's lesson is... you kill each other." They get three days; only one of their group can remain standing or they will all be killed. The survivor is then released back into society as a warning to mind their manners.

From Nikki Disney's Amazon review:

quote:
Some pupils embrace their mission with zeal, while others simply give up or try to become peacemakers and revolutionaries. However, the ultimate drive for survival comes from the desire to protect the one you love. Battle Royale works on many different levels, highlighting the authorities' desperation to enforce law and order and the alienation caused by the generation gap.

Fukasaku used child actors of about the right age to play the doomed class of 42 junior high school students (the 'making of' documentary includes footage of Aki Maeda, the lead female student in the story, celebrating her 14th birthday on the set). Americans will also recognize another actress playing one of the students, Chiaki Kuriyama, who appeared as the teenaged assassin in the Kill Bill films. Rounding out the superb casting is "Beat" Takeshi Kitano, as the group's original 7th grade teacher, brought back in to run this "game."

It's violent, it's bloody, it's twisted, and it's very very satisfying to watch. It's another title that I've worn the pits down watching. The disc I have is part of the British Arrow Video 3-disc limited edition box set (theatrical cut (the one to watch), director's cut, special features disc, plus various pamphlets, post cards, and a poster). Fortunately there's no region code. Video-wise it's a bit dodgy, but it is probably the best this title has ever looked on video. The sound is incredible, in Japanese with English subtitles. For years no North American distributor would touch this (I was lucky to see it at it's one-and-only Los Angeles screening at the Egyptian, with Kukasaku there for Q and A), but as of this year there is a domestic release available.

* * * * *

The other one I've played endlessly is Beat Takeshi's 2003 film Zatoichi. There were 26 films in the original Zatoichi series from the '70s through the '90s, all starring Shintarou Katsu as the famous blind swordsman.

In these films the Edo-period story is always the same: Zatoichi, appearing to be a harmless wandering old blind massuse with a yen for gambling and drinking, shuffles into a village. Said village is being controlled/bullied/extorted by yakuza thugs. Zatoichi turns out to be not so harmless - he is an incredible sword master with his red blind man's cane concealing a katana. He tries to be a pacifist, but eventually comes to the aid of the beleagered villagers, slicing and dicing his way through the thugs, usually with a 10-1 ratio against him. In the end, the villagers celebrate getting their freedom back, and Zatoichi shuffles off to the next installment.

This remake works quite well. Kitano plays Zatoichi pretty much the way we remember him from the '70s, except for his now peroxide hair. The sets, the costumes, and the fight choreography are sumptuous and meticulously researched to be accurate for the period. The characters all get their background stories told as well, more so than typical in most chambara stories. CGI is used for the blood, which flows and flows and flows. Geysers and fountains of blood. And the whole thing is captured in color and in 'scope, as God intended. Oh, and the final celebration scene... it's a tap dance number. The whole cast, in Edo-period costume and tap-equipped geta clog sandals. You just have to see it for yourself. In Japanese with English subtitles. The blu-ray I have is the Artificial Eye release from the UK, without region coding. The US Miramax release is marred by the over-boosted colors of the transfer, and the greatly cut down special extras.

Again, another violent and bloody and very satisfying (as these old revenge stories always are) couple of hours in front of as big a screen as you can muster.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 06-18-2012, 07:42 AM:

Both "Evita" and "The Artist" look and sound great on Blu-ray. [thumbsup]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-18-2012, 08:23 AM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
The Beethoven disc is also grood but the camera work could have been better as well as the sound. This disc has been out for several year now and that may be the reason it is not up to current standard in my opinion.

I've got a set of LPs of Baremboim playing the Beethoven concertos from the late '60s, and can't say that any of them particularly grab me. On the later ones especially he drags the tempo, emphasises phrases and ornaments (and the rondo in the B-flat concerto is almost as slow as a funeral march!), lets the overall pace go and it's generally a bit frustrating. It could be that he was very early in his career when those recordings were made, though my gut feeling is that like many pianists whose real passion is Mozart, he just doesn't 'get' late Beethoven instinctively, and vice-versa.

There's a video on YT somewhere of Wilhelm Kempff playing the final movement of the Hammerklavier when he was well into his 80s (can't find it from a YT search just now - sorry). Like the records and videos Horowitz made in the final years of his life, you'd expect it to be elegant but unspectacular: in fact, it's one of the most captivating performances I've ever seen on TV. You can see the reason why as soon as the camera zooms in on his hands - they're absolutely enormous! He could span almost two octaves while barely needing to move his wrist. He'd lost absolultely none of the power you can hear in his performances from the '50s and '60s.

A few years ago when I was learning the sonata no. 7 in D I listened to a Kempff record of it a lot, but never could get the phrasing quite right, especially the "almost, but not quite" syncopation in the third movement. Of course the main reason is that I'm a very poor amateur pianist whereas he was one of the world's greatest professionals, but I can't help wondering if the sheer size of his hands enabled him to use fingering approaches that for anyone else would be suicidal.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 06-18-2012, 09:45 AM:

Jaws and E.T. will both be out this year, with gross 7.1 re-mixes. I think Jaws is at least getting an original mono track too.

Also, the 50th Anniversary James Bond box set is due later this year. Looks pretty awesome!

AJG

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-18-2012, 11:52 AM:

Bill, do you already have a copy of EVITA and THE ARTIST? As I had mentioned earlier EVITA is not due out until Tuesday and THE ARTIST the following week. I have EVITA on two different laserdisc. One of them is the original Disney release and the other one is the special edition from Criterion. Because I disconnected my laserdisc player from my home video system I can no longer play the discs. AlI remember is what you said about the sound, awesome! The Criterion disc had a lot of special features but I doubt most of them have been ported over to the BD. I hope I am wrong about this.
I have never seen THE ARTIST in a theatre but plan to get the movie on Blu Ray because I know it will be worth having. I have seen screen caps from movie at DVD Beaver and they look fantastic.

-Claude

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-18-2012, 01:43 PM:

I've seen Dr. No and Goldfinger from the series of Bond BDs that has been published over the last few years. The digital noise reduction on the picture is a little over-aggressive for me - the grain is all gone and the picture has a digital aesthetic to it. The track remastering is a lot better, with the original mono mixes being there as an option (complete with very faint tape hiss suggesting that they haven't gone too far with the NR). I'm also wondering if the 5.1 on Goldfinger might derive from a mix for 70mm blowups dating from the original release: it doesn't have the artificial, disjointed feel to it as the digitally reconstituted surround tracks that are now being produced for DVD and BD of films that were only ever released in a 1.0 mix to begin with.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-18-2012, 01:52 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Like real theaters, there are dry spells. Nothing interesting is due out on Blu-ray for a long time. Who cares about DVD?

C'mon Joe. I wasn't really sure you were a techno-geek but now? You might find it interesting (and probably won't agree with me) that my daughter bought me a Panasonic VHS player at a garage sale for $5 for my large selection of VHS tapes. That player gives me picture quality that equals my 5 disc Panasonic DVD player. No one has convinced me that the difference between DVD and BluRay is sufficient to spend the extra money.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-18-2012, 02:14 PM:

Leo, I have most of the Bond pictures that were released on Blu Ray and they look very good in my opinion. I also have all of the J.B. movies in the special collection box set on DVD including the first one with Daniel Craig and I think I will stick with that instead of buying them again because the up converted images on my HDTV look great.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 06-18-2012, 06:51 PM:

Claude, Yes I have both of those titles. Got them sometime last week. Disney has done a nice job on bring "Evita" to blu-ray for this anniversary edition. "Evita's extra feature are a making of featurette, a music video and a trailer. Better than they did for "The Color of Money". And Sony did a nice job on "The Artist" too. [thumbsup]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-18-2012, 08:28 PM:

I guess all good things comes to those who wait so I must be patient until next week for THE ARTIST BD, Bill. At least I will be able to pick up EVITA tomorrow at Best Buy with the special edition of SISTER ACT starring Whoopi Golberg. THat disc will have the two movies on a single blu ray disc. I saw and very much enjoyed the first Movie but never saw SISTER ACT 2 but I heard it is almost as good as the first. I have been waiting for EVITA for a long tIme. Beside the standard and the Criterion laserdisc, I now remember purchasing the DTS laserdisc as well and it was recently sold to Aarron Germain along with my entire DTS laserdisc collection.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 06-19-2012, 08:21 AM:

I enjoyed both Sister Acts, have not seen them in a few years. I still have my laser disc set up. I've wanting to watch that boxset program "Hollywood" with James Mason after I saw The Artist.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-19-2012, 11:29 AM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
You might find it interesting (and probably won't agree with me) that my daughter bought me a Panasonic VHS player at a garage sale for $5 for my large selection of VHS tapes. That player gives me picture quality that equals my 5 disc Panasonic DVD player. No one has convinced me that the difference between DVD and BluRay is sufficient to spend the extra money.

This sort of comment really begs a number of questions to be answered. Like, what kind of TV set is being used to compare the image quality between VHS tapes and DVD discs? How are the VHS and DVD players connected to the TV set? DVD picture quality should be quite noticeably better than VHS if the DVD player is connected using S-Video or component video cables (and provided the TV set being used is in good shape).

In order for VHS image quality to be "equal" to that of DVD something must be set up wrong or not working correctly. VHS tapes have only 240 lines of resolution, not to mention a pretty crappy color signal. Hollywood movies on DVD sport 480 lines of resolution, better quality color and can be played in progressive scan if the right combination of player and TV set are used.

Likewise, Blu-ray image quality is clearly superior to DVD. If there really was no visible difference between Blu-ray and DVD there would be no need for HDTV at all since standard definition would be "good enough" for the forseeable future. If 6 times the pixel count means nothing then all the digital projection conversions going on in commercial theaters could have been completed using mere standard definition resolution imaging chips. No need to jettison the first generation of d-cinema projectors with 1280 X 1024 resolution DLP chips. If resolution means nothing movie theaters should have gone the way of video 30 years ago!

I've come across more than a few HDTV setups where the "HD" part of things was not set up properly -like somehow having the Blu-ray player default to 480p SD resolution. That kind of thing tends to happen if the viewer is connecting the player to the TV set using an old S-Video cable. Some people think all they need to do to get "HD" is buy the TV set. They're feeding the TV set nothing but SD resolution stuff and make the snap judgment HDTV isn't that much better than SD. Idiots.

Another obvious question that pops up in my mind when I hear someone claim to see no difference between HD and SD material is this: how good is this person's eye sight?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-19-2012, 03:24 PM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
That player gives me picture quality that equals my 5 disc Panasonic DVD player.

That's pretty much impossible, unless you have a really bad (or old tube-type) TV.

The difference between DVD and Blu-Ray is definitely noticable, but not as striking as comparing VHS to DVD.

And yes, I do think Joe R. is definitely a techno-geek.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 06-19-2012, 03:47 PM:

Coming from my 100 inch screen and projected from a DLP home theater projector,the gap between DVD and Bluray is huge.
It's not just resolution but the absence of artifacts which give it a clean film like look.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-19-2012, 03:51 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
VHS tapes have only 240 lines of resolution

If you're measuring by a single field, then yes. But then again, so does DVD if he has it hooked up any other way than component. But VHS can resolve around 300 "lines" horizontally. Super VHS claims 400 or so, LaserDisc 425. Both are waaaaay below the theoretical NTSC maximum of 720.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 03:11 AM:

Sorry guys, but since I can count the eyebrow hairs on the actors in either format it's sharp enough for me. My vision is 20/20 corrected.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-20-2012, 07:48 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson

Likewise, Blu-ray image quality is clearly superior to DVD. If there really was no visible difference between Blu-ray and DVD there would be no need for HDTV at all since standard definition would be "good enough" for the forseeable future. If 6 times the pixel count means nothing then all the digital projection conversions going on in commercial theaters could have been completed using mere standard definition resolution imaging chips. No need to jettison the first generation of d-cinema projectors with 1280 X 1024 resolution DLP chips. If resolution means nothing movie theaters should have gone the way of video 30 years ago!

Resolution isn't the only factor: bitrate (the volume of data used to represent the image and sound within a given time period), the source materials used to master the DVD or BD, and the mastering process itself also affect the subjective perceived viewing and listening experience for the end user.

I've seen cheaper, single layer BDs with bitrates down into the low teens of mbps (megabits per second). That's only a little higher than the theoretical maximum of a DVD, which is 10.08. Of course DVDs vary, too: longer films often drop down into the 3-5 range, which is needed if you're going to fit three hours onto an 8.4gb disc. As a general rule, it's the high quality DVDs with bitrates that are consistently in the 7-9 range that can look very good indeed when uprezzed, leading some to opine that there is little subjective quality difference between DVDs and BDs.

If your low bitrate BD is also transferred from a release print rather than a specially graded IP or IN (high contrast and so not much detail in the midtones), then you're not going to see much of an improvement over a professionally done DVD, either. But a BD scanned from a specially graded element, on a high end machine, by someone who knows what he or she is doing, and then encoded in H.264 with bitrates that are consistently in the high 30s (the theoretical maximum for a BD is 48mpbs) is a totally different animal.

So all other factors being equal, there is a lot more video and audio information in a BD than in a DVD, and you'll see that on the screen if your equipment is set up correctly. But those other factors very rarely are equal in practice, which makes the comparison a subjective and difficult one.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-20-2012, 11:15 AM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
Sorry guys, but since I can count the eyebrow hairs on the actors in either format it's sharp enough for me.

It's all in what floats your own personal boat. However one thing you haven't mentioned: What kind of TV you're using. If you run a VHS, DVD or Blu-Ray through an old Zenith with a 19" tube, they'll all look about the same.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 11:36 AM:

It's a 32 inch Panasonic Mike.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-20-2012, 11:47 AM:

My eye sight is pretty good, enough to clearly see a big difference in image quality between well mastered releases on DVD and Blu-ray. The difference has been big enough that I only buy or rent movies on Blu-ray. I'm done with DVD.

quote: Leo Enticknap
Resolution isn't the only factor: bitrate (the volume of data used to represent the image and sound within a given time period), the source materials used to master the DVD or BD, and the mastering process itself also affect the subjective perceived viewing and listening experience for the end user.

Bit rate is the primary reason why I rent movies on physical Blu-ray discs rather than use any Internet-based streaming services or even order PPV/VOD movies via satellite. The Blu-ray version typically has a much higher bit rate (along with having better quality audio too).

The only thing that has soured me lately to renting Blu-ray discs is the Hollywood studios' new practice of making separate rental specific discs that are very different from the version one would buy via retail. The rental discs typically have no extras. They also have forced trailers and TV commercials that cannot by skipped by pressing the chapter button; the viewer must fast-forward through them instead. The fast forward button doesn't work on those damned FBI/Interpol logos. Some rental Blu-ray discs don't even have chapter stops. At least with a rental VHS tape one could cue up the beginning of the movie and then start it from that point later when everyone is ready to watch the show. That can't be done with those rental discs unless one just leaves the player on pause for a long time.
[Mad]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-20-2012, 12:20 PM:

Yes, it''s a 32 iinch Panasonic, but you have not said if it is a standard or a high definition set, Robert. About three years ago, there were several discs I wanted very baldly but they were exclusive to Blu Ray so I bought them along with a BD player and watched them on a SD set and could hardly see the difference in picture quality. After buyiing many more BDs and watching them on my SD set, I eventually purchased a 1080p Samsung HDTV set and I was was totally amazed at the difference in the picture quality. In HD, the picture was just like I was watching an actual film at a theatre. I never felt this way when I watched Beta, VHS, Laserdiscs and DVDs on a standard television set.

If your set is indeed HD, it could very be 720p instead of the full 1080p maximum standard of HDTV and there is a difference in picture quality between the two. From what I had seen , good DVDs can look almost as good as a BD in 720p but the difference is very apparent on a 1080p set. At least to my 72 year pair of eyes it does.

-Claude

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 01:46 PM:

It's not an HD set. But with the picture as sharp as it is (sharper than any I've ever seen in a theatre) I can see no need for replacing it. I'm not really interested in counting the pores on their skin. I just assume they have them.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-20-2012, 01:49 PM:

What more can I say [Confused]

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-20-2012, 02:24 PM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
It's not an HD set. But with the picture as sharp as it is (sharper than any I've ever seen in a theatre) I can see no need for replacing it.

Um, wow, that's pretty staggering.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-20-2012, 02:27 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The rental discs typically have no extras. They also have forced trailers and TV commercials that cannot by skipped by pressing the chapter button; the viewer must fast-forward through them instead. The fast forward button doesn't work on those damned FBI/Interpol logos. Some rental Blu-ray discs don't even have chapter stops.

I've come across a few of those courtesy of Lovefilm (British Netflix equivalent), too. Thankfully it's not a major problem for me, because I mainly like watching arthouse and archival re-release type stuff, for which the market is so small that they generally don't bother with a separate rental version - the mail rental outfits get the same version as the retail one. But I did get this with Red State, Amelia, Hugo, J. Edgar and The Conspirator in the last year or two. And what really puts the icing on the cake is that you can't just start the trailers running, then take a shower, feed the cat, phone a friend or kill time some other way for 15 minutes or so unless you're keeping an eye on the screen, because there's no menu at the end of the trailers: the feature starts automatically.

If I was cynical I'd speculate that this is yet another 'soft power' tactic the distributors are using to persuade us to start watching stuff over the internet and abandon offline media...

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 03:23 PM:

Drop by sometime Bobby and I'll show you. Well, sadly, there's half a country between us.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-20-2012, 03:34 PM:

I've seen plenty of good CRT-based standard definition television monitors, including expensive professional based monitors used in large market TV stations.

I have never seen any such CRT monitor fed an SD quality video signal equal or surpass the detail shown on a competently projected image from 35mm film. Nevermind any discussion comparing 5-perf 70mm or 15-perf 70mm based material.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-20-2012, 04:51 PM:

My eyesight sucks and I can see the difference between HD and not-HD. Hell, my eyesight is so bad that I can't even tell if I'm on Film-Tech right now. I hope I am.

But anyway, HD is an acquired taste for some. If you spent all of your TV/movie watching time viewing things in HD for, say 6 months and then went back and watched a DVD or VHS, you'd notice the difference and would probably prefer the HD at that point. These are the same people who don't notice the difference between a 35mm print and a 70mm print or even TV and a film print. They see a person on the screen. All that matters is that they see a person.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 06:46 PM:

Well Joe, I can certainly tell the difference between 35 and 70mm 'cause in my projectionist days I ran both. 70 of course is superior. Loved those Norelco projectors. But I still think BlueRay is a ploy by the manufacturers to sell more equipment and discs.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-20-2012, 08:51 PM:

By that inference Blu-ray is unnecessary then you must believe that any form of HDTV must be unnecessary as well.

DVD and VHS are both stuck in standard definition. They're obsolete formats. Blu-ray is not only HD, Blu-ray delivers the highest quality of pre-recorded HD video consumers can buy.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-20-2012, 09:37 PM:

Unnecessary for me Bobby. After a certain point it doesn't improve the enjoyment for me. It's the story that gets me or the music. I'm not a techno-geek and at this point I could die a contented man. [Big Grin]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-21-2012, 04:44 AM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
But I still think BlueRay is a ploy by the manufacturers to sell more equipment and discs.

Undoubtedly, but if we all took the line that new generations of technology were unnecessary, we'd still be listening to Edison Blue Amberol cylinders, watching dim and jerky silent films, refusing to drive "horseless carriages" like Tim Holt in The Magnificent Ambersons, etc. etc.

There will, I think, though, come a point at which the technology of home viewing will effectively have matured, and won't be able to do offer anything more that any consumer would regard as a material improvement. This has already happened in other consumer technologies. A fridge or a washing machine bought now, for example, does exactly the same job as one bought 20 years ago (except use slightly less electricity). Assume for argument's sake that in 5-10 years' time, another optical disc format comes out that offers 4K resolution. Subjectively, is anyone likely to notice any upgrade on the screen such that it'll convince them to buy yet another copy of Gone With the Wind to add to the VHS, DVD and BD copies they have already? They would have to have a very big screen, to start with.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-21-2012, 12:08 PM:

I see what you're saying Leo. At 80 years of age I've seen all the improvements you've mentioned and really appreciate them. But BluRay is one on which I'll pass.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-21-2012, 02:51 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
There will, I think, though, come a point at which the technology of home viewing will effectively have matured, and won't be able to do offer anything more that any consumer would regard as a material improvement.

I agree, as long as the fundamental paradigm of TV viewing doesn't change.

The thing is change can happen, and probably will happen since the makers of TV monitors, computer monitors and video playback equipment want to stay in business. A lot of electronics companies would go out of business if customers only bought a new product when the old one finally broke and could not be repaired. Electronics companies have the challenge of making a product with real "must have" features rather than a bland solution in search of a problem.

quote: Leo Enticknap
Assume for argument's sake that in 5-10 years' time, another optical disc format comes out that offers 4K resolution. Subjectively, is anyone likely to notice any upgrade on the screen such that it'll convince them to buy yet another copy of Gone With the Wind to add to the VHS, DVD and BD copies they have already? They would have to have a very big screen, to start with.

A really big screen would have to be the cornerstone of such a 4K format -that is unless Apple gets into the TV manufacturing business and squeezes 4K pixel counts into a vareity of modest to large flat panel display sizes, selling 4K as Retina Display™.

A 4K video format on disc could be plausible in the long term, but highly unlikely within the next 5 years or perhaps even 10 for that matter. Look at all the legal and corporate political hell Blu-ray had to conquer in order to be introduced to the market and win an HD disc format war. Who wants to go through all that crap again?

In order for a new optical disc storage format to succeed Blu-ray it would need to conquer a few challenges. Not many computers have Blu-ray disc writing capability. Blank DVD-R discs are cheap, but many people have shifted to using large capacity external hard disc drives for huge amounts of data and flash memory sticks and cards for smaller amounts. I have my entire CD collection duped in LPCM WAV format on just one 1TB hard disc. A new optical disc format would need capacity on the order of hundreds of gigabytes or even in the terabytes to have a chance. Not only that, the disc would need better I/O performance than Blu-ray.

Internet streaming would be the other alternative where 4K could be delivered. But the Internet in the United States on average is painfully slow. There are only scant few places where one can download video at speeds fast enough to sustain Blu-ray quality bandwidth. 4K video would quadruple that bandwidth load.

Blu-ray is here to stay for a long time. Those who haven't upgraded already will end up doing so when their old DVD player finally breaks. DVD-only movie disc players are disappearing from store shelves. They can keep playing old DVDs on those machines. But some new Blu-ray players arriving on store shelves are lacking the backward compatible outputs that would allow them to work on old standard definition TV sets.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-21-2012, 05:10 PM:

Agreed completely, and the common form factor is probably one of the things that'll sustain BD (i.e. that one player will play CDs, DVDs and BDs). The only thing that makes me wonder if a 4K optical disc format is coming down the pipe is that 4K now seems to be the standard the studios have settled on for digital studio origination, post production and scanning archival assets. So at the end of the production or restoration process, they're ending up with a 4K master digital element. So if a 4K consumer format did come out, they'd have an avalanche of content all ready to go.

And as you say, Internet bandwidth is strangling online delivery. I couldn't give you figures, but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of household broadband connections in the developed world offer 4-6mbps at most - barely enough for DVD equivalent to be streamed online. The only exceptions I know of are France and Japan, where they've spent an assload of taxpayers' cash fibre-opticing up pretty much the entire countries. But they're small countries with most of their populations concentrated in an even smaller area still: I can't see that happening in the US, Canada, Australia, Russia, India etc. anytime soon.

So the content providers can't force consumers to an online only distribution model without cutting off probably around 80% of their worldwide market, meaning that offline carriers (optical discs, in other words) are going to be around for some time yet.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-21-2012, 07:16 PM:

You want to create a new format that'll take the world by storm? OK, here's my simple list of features it needs to have:

1. Picture and sound as good as Blu-Ray (no need for anything better)

2. It's guaranteed to work in all players

3. It's guaranteed to start playing the feature film (or for TV shows or multi-item disks, give you the main menu) within 5 seconds after you close the tray. And without FBI warnings.

If you introduced this product even Robert Allen might buy it! [Big Grin]

Seriously though, the next thing to replace BR is probably going to be an online thing. I have been predicting for a long time that the whole notion of "a spinning disk" containing content is going to be an antiquated idea. The way storage costs are dropping, that'll happen by the end of this decade, I'll bet.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-21-2012, 07:47 PM:

Internet speeds will need to get a lot faster for online streaming services to make physical media like Blu-ray seem antiquated. I just don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

IMHO, the primary thing holding back Internet speeds is smart phones. Various telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon are spending big sums of money upgrading their mobile phone networks and working at a snail's pace on upgrading residential Internet connections. Worse yet, they've been placing bandwidth caps on those residential Internet connections.

An Internet connection needs to deliver at least 30 million bits per second sustained in download speeds to offer HD video quality that would be comparable at all to Blu-ray. In order for the connection to outdo Blu-ray at the top end peak levels it would need to deliver 50 million bit per second speeds.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-21-2012, 08:23 PM:

There should be a cable channel that shows nothing but FBI warnings 24/7. It definitely deters me from pirating, otherwise I'd pirate anything and everything. Good thing that upcoming Blu-rays will have UNSKIPPABLE 5 or 10 second FBI piracy warnings. That will probably stop piracy altogether. The movie industry hires only idiots, I swear.

My cable internet is somewhere around 20 megabits per second. Comcast increased it without my permission (or charging me). I'm sure they'll slow it back down in a year and make me pay more if I want to keep the higher speed.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-22-2012, 02:07 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
IMHO, the primary thing holding back Internet speeds is smart phones. Various telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon are spending big sums of money upgrading their mobile phone networks and working at a snail's pace on upgrading residential Internet connections. Worse yet, they've been placing bandwidth caps on those residential Internet connections.

And there is even a proposal in California (it was current on the local news when I was last there, though opinion seemed divided as to whether it had legs) to repeal the law that requires a landline operator with a licence in a given territory to provide residential service to anyone who wants to buy it. An AT&T spokesman was interviewed saying that it was more cost effective to provide mobile service to remote locations than to maintain landline infrastructure, and was therefore lobbying for the requirement to be for either statutory landline or cell coverage, but not both. If you live in a shack out in the wilds of Zzyzx Road I can see his point. But opponents of the proposal claimed that if this change in the law went through, that would be the effective end of any investment in landline communications infrastructure, even in densely populated areas; and high speed Internet would be the first thing to suffer.

And agreed: charging for bandwidth, either by capping or on a metered basis is going to strangle IPTV and other forms of multimedia content delivery to consumers at birth. And furthermore, the problem is not just bandwidth caps, but some ISPs here are even throttling bandwidth from specific content providers. Earlier this week one of them was accused of throttling BBC iPlayer during one of England's European Cup soccer match as part of their ongoing dispute with the BBC over the amount of bandwidth its customers use watching stuff on BBC sites. The only way multimedia over the Internet going to be viable as a replacement for terrestrial TV and/or offline consumer media is if all-you-can-eat residential contracts become the norm. I'd be surprised if Hollywood isn't lobbying both ISPs and regulators very intensively on that score.

quote: Joe Redifer
There should be a cable channel that shows nothing but FBI warnings 24/7.

There is already a sub-cult of enthusiasts who collect and trade offair recordings of test cards made in the middle of the night (I'm told that VHS tapes of Test Card F are especially sought after), so you never know - a piracy warning channel may happen!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-22-2012, 09:35 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I just don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Well....I said "by the end of this decade," which is over 9 years away, which is of course an eternity with this stuff. Think for a minute how different everything was in 2003.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-22-2012, 04:20 PM:

Wow, this decade ends in 2022? Decades keep getting longer and longer.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-22-2012, 05:33 PM:

Ooops, a typo there....since this decade ends at the end of 2020, should have been "over 8 years." Damn Film-Tech time-limited edit function!

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 06-22-2012, 06:04 PM:

OH I know! I get that all the time read back through a few hours later and spelled Shoot Sh*t! OH MY WORD!

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-22-2012, 07:01 PM:

Getting back on topic, Warners just announced the first 3-D Blu ray from the golden era of the format in the fifties. Alfred Hitchcock's DIAL M FOR MURDER is coming out on October 9th of this year. At the same, the master's STRANGER ON A TRAIN in 2-D will also be released. The release announcement had stated HOUSE OF WAX in 3-D will be next.

Beside releasing these movies in 3-D on Blu Ray, it sure would be great if they would be released to theatres as part of Turner Classic Movie theatrical series for a one or two day showing. It is great to see Warner Home Video starting to release some of their classic 3-D films. Paramount H. V. had the opportunity to do so with HONDO recently but chose to release it on Blu Ray in 2-D only because they felt the small 3-D market did not justify releasing any of their 3-D films in that format at the present time.

-Claude

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-23-2012, 12:35 PM:

Claude -- you seem to buy everything that comes out -- so I simply HAVE TO ask -- are you now, or have you ever been, a millionaire!? [Eek!]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 06-23-2012, 03:37 PM:

No! I do not buy everything that come out and no, I am not a millionare but it would be nice if I was. I used to buy more than I do now but I have kept spending on BDs and CDs to a minimum because of my semi retired status and almost fixed income. My taste in movies and other subject matter is very broad from classic films, music including opera, ballet and orchestral performances as well as a a wide range of movies covering all subjects. Some of the recent movies I had added to my collection include SCENT OF A WOMAN, HOOSIERS collector edition, EVITA, SISTER ACT 1&2, CASABLANCA all on Blu Ray. I will get THE ARTIST on Tuesday.

-Claude

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-23-2012, 10:51 PM:

The first sequence of EVITA is beautifully constructed -- image as well as music -- it nicely contrasts the smallness of her father's funeral to the grandness of hers -- and great use of dynamic range and frequency response in the sound.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-26-2012, 10:04 PM:

Like Claude, I have slowed down my purchases of titles given that most of the stuff I love, I have already purchased in many formats and permutations, sometimes buying titles 5 and 6 times. But more to the point, there are fewer and fewer films that come out that I actually have any desire to own. I mean like practically none.

My feeling is, if I can get most of my favorites classics on BluRay and project them on a curved screen with a JCV D-ILA 3D projector (HOUSE OF WAX and DIAL M FOR MURDER at the top of the 3D list, although even THOSE I already purchased at GREAT cost in SVHS sequential 3D back in the 80s), then I can retire and watch anything I really love anytime I want and show them to anyone I want. Then if and when something comes out that REALLY catches my fancy, I might buy it. But as I said, there's not a lot of passion for today's Hollywood output.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-26-2012, 11:06 PM:

I sold my entire collection of DVD's when I moved back to Los Angeles, so my collection suddenly became super-tiny. And it still is, since I've been doing most of my viewing via AppleTV or Netflix for the past 3-4 years or so. Our libraries also have enormous collections of stuff on DVD (and, yes, VHS).

I recently started buying Blurays -- but I'm waaaay more picky than I used to be. I definitely don't buy movies "sight-unseen" anymore. I only want the ones I love. The ones I'm likely to watch over and over. The ones that "deserve" high-definition (in my opinion, of course).

And I watch for bargains. $7.99 and $9.99 are the magic numbers for me!

I used to buy movies that had "good sound" but I now seem to choose movies that have "good story" as the main priority. (If they have interesting sound, it's a bonus.)

But still -- we're only talking about something like 15 movies and a few TV shows.

The TV shows are the original "V" series, "Twin Peaks" and the first season of "X Files" -- those are all standard-def DVD's which is fine since that's how they were made.

Unless there are cut negatives to go back to, I don't see older TV shows gaining anything on Bluray.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 07-18-2012, 05:27 PM:

I have several BluRay release's coming up that have caught my eye. First is Airport in September then Ice Station Zebra in October. Also there is the House of Dark Shadows and Night of Dark Shadows which will be in October as well. Of course Johnny Deep's Dark Shadows is at the same time. My wife loved the recent Dark Shadows I can tolerate it so I guess that is on the list as well.

The drawback on the Night of Dark Shadows is the original theatrical release which was missing about 25 minutes of what they intended to have. Recently they put the footage back in and re-created the audio, using surviving cast members and voice actors that could sound like those that have gone on. I guess that version will follow at some point down the road. I don't know why they have to do that kind of release stuff, I guess to make more money.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 07-18-2012, 05:44 PM:

I bought a $2.99 BD of some direct-to-video shlock, just to see what a $2.99 BD would look like. Picture obviously shot on film, probably 35mm short ends from the look of it, but just upscaled from a SD (probably Betacam SP) transfer, and stretched to 16:9 from 4:3. Curiosity satisfied.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-18-2012, 05:55 PM:

Ron,
It would be great if AIRPORT will me replicated from the original 65mm source but I had learned it will be from 35mm. I already have it on DVD and I will just live with that .

for some reason AIRPORT did not receive a wide 70mm release after it was premiered at New York's Radio City Music Hall in 1970 in that format. The movie was photographed in Todd AO

I have always loved the film music of Alfred Newman and the music for AIRPORT was the final score he composed. I still have the sound track LP album but nothing to play it on.

-Claude

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-18-2012, 08:26 PM:

"Airport" would be a good movie for a remake. They'd have to figure out some creative way for the guy to get the bomb onto the plane....oh how I miss the days when you could just walk onto an airplane like they do in that movie.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 07-19-2012, 09:44 AM:

The first time I saw Airport was in Colorado Springs at the COOPER there. Oh my word six channel sound, 70MM presentation, big comfortable seats, and what a movie.

Claude I was hoping for the same as you on how they did the master. Oh well still have to have it on BluRay!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-19-2012, 01:23 PM:

Interesting too how they were able to make that movie so riveting, with no big explosions, no car chases, no fight scenes, hardly any special effects, and considering it's one of those stories where you KNOW they're all going to be OK at the end.

I withdraw my suggestion for the remake. They would ruin it, just like they did with "Pelham One Two Three."

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-19-2012, 02:39 PM:

Honolulu used to play a lot of 70mm films but AIRPORT was not one of them.I remember seeing it at the Varsity in 35mm. I guess there were not too many 70mm prints in circulation because the Varsity was equipped for the large format film. Not only did I had to watch the film in 35mm, the showing was in mono sound and not very impressive. At least the picture looked very good because it was created from a 65mm source.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 07-19-2012, 02:46 PM:

We did a friends late show screening of "Airport" in the mid 90's at the Mann's Chinese Theatre in 35mm IB 4-Track Stereo. The twin houses had shows running and we took over the main house. [thumbsup]

That was a fun screening.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-19-2012, 07:30 PM:

Getting back on topic, there is the annual Criterion sale going on right now at all Barnes & Noble book stores. When they are not on sale, Criterion BDs and DVDs are very pricy and worth purchasing only if there is a movie on that labe that you must have in the best quality possible no matter what the cost is. If you wait for the annual B&N sale going on right now, all titles are on sale at fifty percent off the regular price. some of the titles I got during the current sale as well as in the past include FANNY & ALEXZANDER, A NIGHT TO REMEMBER, THE 39TH STEP, BLUE-WHITE-RED (The Three Color Trilogy). BLACK NARCISSUS, RED SHOES, THE LAST EMPEROR, NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, 12 ANGRY MEN, SAMRAI TRILOGY, HARAKIRI, SHICHININ NO SAMURAI (Seven Samurai). KAGEMUSHA, THE THIN RED LINE, MERRY CHRISTMAS MR LAWRENCE, DAYS OF HEAVEN plus a few others. DAYS OF HEAVEN is gorgeous on Blu Ray and it made me feel I was watching this film in 70mm. RED SHOES and BLACK NARCISSUS were fantastic mostly due to the beautiful cinematograpy of Jack Cardiff and the way had photographed these films in the three strip TEchnicolor process.

-Claude

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-05-2012, 04:58 PM:

Fox had just released a seven disc collection of Marilyn Monroe movies on Blu Ray last week. SOME LKE IT HOT and THE MISFITS have been available on BD for some tiime now but HOW TO MERRY A iMILLIONARE, GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES, THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH, THERE IS NO BUSINESS LKE SHOW BUSINESS and RIVER OF NO RETURN are new to Blu-Ray. I had SLIH on DVD but never got THE MISFITS so the collection was worth getting at Sam's Club discounted price. The only thing I disliked about the collection is the terrible cardboard case the discs came it. It is very flimsy and very cheap quality. I usually have no problem with Fox's cardboard cases used for THE ALIEN, STAR WARS and Target' s exclusive packaging for THE SOUND OF MUSIC and WETSIDE STORY which were all elegant and nice but the case for the MM collection sucks!

I watched HTMAM and enjoyed it very much but for some reason, I thought the restored color imaging on the DVD is better. I will be spending the next couple of evenings watching the rest of the movies in the collection and expect to enjoy them all.

-Claude

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 08-08-2012, 01:55 AM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
for some reason AIRPORT did not receive a wide 70mm release after it was premiered at New York's Radio City Music Hall in 1970 in that format. The movie was photographed in Todd AO

In the 70mm ad thread in film-yak, There's an ad for "Airport" at the Midland in Kansas City. It states: "Kansas City is one of four cities in the U.S. now showing 'Airport' in 70mm". We know it played in 70 in NYC and LA. Does anyone know the fourth city?

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 08-08-2012, 09:01 AM:

Colorado Springs at The Cooper there. That was where I saw it. So my guess it was in most of the Coopers across the country that way.

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 08-08-2012, 10:10 AM:

quote: Ron Funderburg
Colorado Springs at The Cooper there. That was where I saw it. So my guess it was in most of the Coopers across the country that way.

How far into the run did you see it? It opened March 20, 1970. Some 70mm engagements could have been moveovers from first run.
Here is a link to the page with the KC ad: http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/f8/t006347/p10.html

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 08-08-2012, 01:04 PM:

I don't know how far in to run I saw it sorry I was a high school kid not yet in the industry. I exercised horses as trainer trainee and delivered dry cleaning. I was visiting my sister and her husband and they took me to it.

When I worked for Commonweath the Coopers they owned never showed second run.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-12-2012, 01:44 PM:

Airport started it's 70MM NYC engagement at Radio City Music Hall on March 5th 1970 with the Glory of Easter stage show. Darling Lili in 70MM was next into Radio City Music Hall on July 23, 1970. The Los Angeles 70MM engagement at the Warner's Hollywood Theatre started on March 20th. 1970, it played there for 29 weeks. There was a 70MM engagement in San Diego starting on July 1st 1970 at Pacific's Center Theatre in Mission Valley. San Francisco opened with 35mm mag engagements.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-12-2012, 02:29 PM:

Getting back to the topic, "New DVD & Blu-Ray", I am undecided about THE HUNGER GAMES that is coming out next Saturday. By the way it is promoted, I am tempted to blind buy it but I have some reservation about it. A person on the FT review page had said it had very jerky camera movements very much like THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT and another said it plays like a TV reality show. Another reviewer at another site said if one had not read the novel, one would be totally lost watching the movie. I am usually not bothered by jerky camera movements but I thought it was a bit much in TBWP and I disliked the movie very much. I am also not a fan of reality shows. After watching the trailer and seeing stills from the film as well as reading synopsis of the original novel, the movie interests me very much but all of the negative comments has me on the fence on this movie. Opinions and comments please.

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-12-2012, 03:42 PM:

Claude, The Hunger Games looked very nice in Blu-ray and sounded great. The film is on disc 1 and the extras are on disc 2.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-12-2012, 04:27 PM:

Thank you Bill.

Almost all of the major video retailers will have exclusive editions of THE HUNGER GAMES and among all of them, I am partial to Target's three disc set.
Best Buy will also have a multiple disc set but it comes with a large storage box that does not interest me at all

-Claude

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 08-12-2012, 06:55 PM:

quote: Bill Gabel
Airport started it's 70MM NYC engagement at Radio City Music Hall on March 5th 1970 with the Glory of Easter stage show.

If memory serves, Airport played later that summer in 70mm at the Cinerama on Broadway. I assume it's one of the Music Hall prints.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-13-2012, 02:49 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Almost all of the major video retailers will have exclusive editions of THE HUNGER GAMES and among all of them, I am partial to Target's three disc set.

I wonder why the video and music industries hate "mom'n'pop" retail so much? Those places pay more for their stupid product, yet the studios/labels deliberately do these promotions to help drive people away from them. Why would these idiot companies give these "exclusives" to the big corporate boxes when they KNOW they're going to buy the product regardless?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-13-2012, 04:42 PM:

I am inclined to agree with you, Mike but in my area there are no dealers who sell Blu-Rays and DVDs except Best Buy, Walmart , Target, Barnes & Noble, Sears and some stationary stores. Blockbusters also sold them but most of their stores have closed in Hawaii so they do not count. We also had Suncoast and Borders Book stores that sold them but they closed all of the stores they had here. With the exception of Sears all of the other stores I had mentioned that sell discs will have their own exclusive version of THE HUNGER GAMES on Saturday.

-Claude

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 08-14-2012, 08:34 AM:

quote: Robert Throop
In the 70mm ad thread in film-yak, There's an ad for "Airport" at the Midland in Kansas City. It states: "Kansas City is one of four cities in the U.S. now showing 'Airport' in 70mm". We know it played in 70 in NYC and LA. Does anyone know the fourth city?

I've been told by Mike Coate that the fourth city was Minneapolis at the Cooper. Thus, "Airport" opened in NYC, LA, KC and Minneapolis. There were other 70mm runs, but not on the break.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-14-2012, 12:05 PM:

When I had mentioned stores that sells BD's & DVD's in my area, I forgot to mention Costco and Sam's Club.. Costco will also have their own exclusive package of THE HUNGER GAMES. Because Sam's Club is a division of Walmart,, they will most likely have their special disc set this Saturday.

-Claude

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-14-2012, 11:53 PM:

Mike, I'm guessing there are two things involved: volume and market dominance by the retailers. On the volume side, mom and pop shops might pay more for the product, but the volume a large retailer can move compared o a mom and pop more than makes up for that. As for market dominance, I would not be surprised if the big retailers are the ones pushing for these promo deals. I'm reminded of the story of Wal-Mart and computer games. For those who don't remember, about a decade ago computer games came in boxes 2 to 3 times the size they are in today. Wal-Mart, ever wanting to maximize their shelf space, demanded that video game makers reduce their box size or Wal-Mart would stop selling their product.

To be fair, the old computer game boxes were mostly empty. The game manual and CD/DVD's took up about 1/3 the space. It wasn't an unreasonable demand. The fact that every computer game distributor complied, however, demonstrates the push power the big retailers have.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 08-15-2012, 12:01 AM:

hmmm, two very recent releases, as in... today:

Jaws - Best Buy digibook release is the way to go with great disc and booklet artwork/production stills and featured print- the transfer is excellent with stellar PQ and audio that features a new 7.1 mix and the original mono

Bye Bye Birdie (Screen Entertainment Archives) (Limited Edition) - Sony's transfer is utterly amazing - looks almost liked transferred 70mm - with sharp as a tack clarity and colors that nearly leap out of your tv/monitor?? very light on the extras, but the image and sound make this one of the best catalogue titles from Sony (until 'Lawrence of Arabia' comes out later in the Fall).

Posted by Chuck McGregor (Member # 6826) on 08-15-2012, 03:52 AM:

quote:
Joe Redifer --
I don't consider any movie "important".

One with a good claim to actually being important (at least among historians) is "Triumph of the Will." If nothing else, I think subsequent "events" turned it into one of the top horror films of all times. Chilling to watch even today.

Speaking of propaganda films, there's always "Reefer Madness." I can't wait for the AromaRama or Smell-O-Vision version.... [thumbsup]

I actually saw (and smelled) "Behind the Great Wall" with AromaRama in early 1960. While it seemed to work OK technically, it was decidedly gimmicky. You never knew when the next aroma would appear. I seem to recall spending more time sniffing then watching the movie [Razz]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-15-2012, 04:02 PM:

I. Agree w other you about BB's digibook version of JAWS on Blu-Ray, Jonathan.
I watched all of the movie and the 'making of' documentary last night and I was very impressed. I have seen JAWS many times in a theatre and on tapes, Laserdisc, and DVD and I have never seen the movie as good as last night. Although it was a few dollars more, BB exclusive digibook version was worth it

-Claude

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-15-2012, 09:10 PM:

Claude did you watch The Shark Is Still Working Documentary?
This is the newer never before released doc.
I have watched everything including the movie and it's very impressive!
I never liked the dvds when projecting on my 100 inch screen but this bluray stands up to some of the best tranfers!
It has a great new 7.1 remix but includes the original mono mix.
My only beef is TSISW Doc is not in HD. [Frown]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-15-2012, 09:27 PM:

I am planning to watch 'The Shark is Still Working' documentary tonight as well as the deleted scenes, Victor. if TSISW is new, it is rather odd, it is not in HD. Bummers to that!

By the way, I am still waiting for feedback about THE HUNGER GAMES. As of now, I am planning to purchase the Target three disc special edition. I taked to a few young people and they all told me the movie is 'very cool and worth getting. On BD.

-Claude

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 08-15-2012, 10:53 PM:

with all the hype over the book and the movie, I thought 'The Hunger Games' was overrated - saw it once, will never see it again.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-15-2012, 11:14 PM:

Why?

-Claude

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 08-16-2012, 12:46 PM:

I was pleasantly surprised by "The Hunger Games". One of my favorites of the year, and I wasn't even planning on seeing it at all.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-17-2012, 01:38 PM:

quote: Dustin Mitchell
Mike, I'm guessing there are two things involved: volume and market dominance by the retailers.

I'm sure you're right. It's just irritating because "the industry" laments the demise of the mom-n-pop retailers, but it's "the industry" that's pushing them out of business.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-19-2012, 09:57 PM:

I watched THE HUNGER GAMES last night and Bill you were right. The Blu-Ray picture and sound was fantastic and so was the movie! After reading most of the negative comments here at FT about the shaky camera scenes and many of you not liking the movie, I was concerned I would not like the movie too but it seem a lot of people did enjoy the movie turning it into a hit that made me decide to 'blind buy' the BD and check it out myself. I must admit I was also attracted by the way the BD was marketed especially by Target with their exclusive 3 disc edition. I am glad I got Target' version because along with the movie, I enjoyed the third disc very much.

The movie held my interest from the beginning and the shaky camera shots did not bother me at all. I noticed it early in the beginning because I was looking for those scenes but when I did not think about it anymore, I never noticed them again.

-Claude