Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I think a Dolby Server for BluRay would be cool

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Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 07-24-2013, 09:32 PM:

Never happen, but I can dream.

You could import the movie(s), import trailers, and whatever else in, convert to - I dunno, mpeg-4? Program the show, and not have to worry about constantly playing with cueing things up.

The output would go to a separate HDMI display channel, different than than the control software and annoying streaming status display does, unlike a regular media server like an Apple TV with iTunes, so just the presentation comes out that channel. Heck, it probably wouldn't even need to stream if the data is right there.

Programmable scripts that also output RS-232 commands to the projector, receiver selectors, X10 dimming stuff, whathavu.

Oh, and did I mention that it wouldn't cost the arm and a leg that a full Dolby server does?

Okay, I'm going back to sleep now.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-24-2013, 10:50 PM:

Maybe such a server could encrypt a movie as it's importing it...therefore you would need a KDM to play it the same as a regular movie. I can see the studios approving something like that.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 07-24-2013, 11:35 PM:

I'd like to have it at home. I hate forced ads and slow Java menus.

AJG

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-24-2013, 11:41 PM:

Those ads are the reason we don't still pay $80 for a home-video.

Even so, I hate those ads too.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-25-2013, 11:37 AM:

There is a product called Kaleidescape that sort of does this for DVDs (Google says that they have a Blu-Ray version now).

It rips the disks to its internal hard disk and will play them on demand. Not sure on the playlist (trailers, shorts, etc.) or automation functions, however. The primary selling point seems to be convenience and a slick user interface.

You don't want to see the price. They actually sell for more than the Dolby cinema servers, believe it or not.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-25-2013, 12:56 PM:

Maybe Jim, you can learn some programming and start a new Open Source project [Wink]

A lot of tools that can do parts this, are already out there, so you don't need to start from scratch.

I've done similar, far less sophisticated stuff myself on several occasions, but it was just some quick hacking around to get the job at hand done, it never made it into something like a product.

Just pick up a fairly decent PC, put in a second video card (that will be your "video out", without any of the menus and stuff interfering), install Ubuntu or Debian Linux on it, put in a good sound card (that will be your audio out, without system sounds interfering) with either a good 7.1 analog out or functional pass-tru of digital audio formats like Dolby Digital, TrueHD, etc. and script some mplayer stuff together with Shell script, Python or other scripting languages.

Posted by Carl Hetherington (Member # 7107) on 07-25-2013, 01:51 PM:

I've thought about this now and again. I think the tricky part from an open-source point of view is working around protection on the discs.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-25-2013, 02:31 PM:

The ripping part doesn't have to happen on the playback computer, it might even be easier if it doesn't. There are quite a few desktop tools, like Handbrake out there that can take care of the ripping. Just put your files on a file server/NAS or share on your playback computer.

Disclaimer: I don't know if the ripping of Blu-Ray discs is legal in your jurisdiction, but it is (still) perfectly legal in mine. [Wink]

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 07-26-2013, 01:46 PM:

There are open-source tools to do everything you describe. I get the impression that anyone comfortable with adding equipment to a decently-equipped PC (or building a PC for the purpose) and installing/configuring the necessary software can put together such a system for under $1,000.

I can't speak for the legality of doing so, however.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-26-2013, 02:00 PM:

JRiver Media Center has a DVD library feature. I know the software supports BD playback; not sure if BD can be ripped to your hard drive and played back from a library yet, but I'm sure it's coming if it's not already here.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-26-2013, 03:03 PM:

It exists, and it can even play full DCI compliant J2k DCPs, including automation, etc. BluRays can be ripped from the internal BluRay drive, and then played main-feature only, with playlist, automation, etc.

Too bad, it never received DCI compliance (no secure media block hardware), so they stopped selling them last week, giving up to the DCI rollout.

They have been sold at decent quantities during the last 6 years or so for preshow and DCI arthouse content (either with KDMs by special permission, or unencrypted). No HD-SDI, only HDMI/DVI output.

Price was around 10.000US$, so not much cheaper than a Dolby server.
They are now sold second hand at around 2500US$.

They may start to sell the software part separately.

http://www.cinesuite.de/

In general I think most features are available in certain media players. What's missing is the automation feature.

- Carsten

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 07-27-2013, 02:04 PM:

You know, just for laughs, I've been experimenting with some technologies out there just to get media into manageable formats to edit together, and have found that just that alone has a *long* way to go. There's a great program out there call Handbrake that can do some pretty incredible file format conversions, but just try to use anything to merge files together without (for example) losing surround channels, (despite what they claim) and I hope that you packed a big lunch.

Cinesuite. That sounds interesting. Went to their web site. Knew I should have taken German in school...

Posted by Henry O'Connell (Member # 2238) on 07-27-2013, 09:43 PM:

We use Emerging Cinemas for our indie content. They now use this piece of crap program called Lighthouse (can't do anything with, runs old version of VLC engine). When we started they used DigitAll. web page This software did/does what you are looking for. No idea of cost and such.

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 07-30-2013, 03:43 AM:

Now the Digit-All looks very interesting. It's software at $250US to run on a pretty standard, but beefy PC running Win7. (not 8) SATA drives that have to have at least a reliable throughput of 250Mbits/sec, not difficult nowadays - I figure a 2T 7200rpm drive, a good modern nVidia graphics card that can drive more than one output, (HDMI included, of course) 4G of memory recommended, network drive OK, but it still has to have that same reliable throughput, or forget it. 1G Ethernet bare minimum. Looks like good buffering, good interface, takes a lot of different file types. Their site even has a number of demo videos, an evaluation version to be downloaded, and more.

Looks good with just one problem. I sent them an email on Sunday night with some questions for additional details on some stuff, and so far, nuthin. No response at all. Hmmmmm. So customer service sucks a brick. Could be very important. Could even be a deal breaker. Then again, it's a tempting package, and I wouldn't exactly be a major (or even at all) commercial account. Will see what the next few days bring.

Posted by Henry O'Connell (Member # 2238) on 07-30-2013, 09:28 AM:

James Gardiner who is associated with DigitAll is/was a member here.
Any issues I had were from Emerging and only an occasional loss of time counter (freeze up, not give run time) from the software.

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 08-17-2013, 01:26 AM:

Well, James did get back to me a few days later. (I shouldn't be so quick to judge.) Am building the machine from scratch now as individual components trickle in from wherever. I'm probably overdoing it a bit with 8G of memory, and the GTX 660n graphics card from nVidia, but what the heck. Even the HD is a Performance model instead of a straight Consumer model. I figure this system might need the extra 'mmmmph!'.

I'll post as progress does progress-type things.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 08-17-2013, 03:19 AM:

Do a Google search for MakeMKV. In one step it rips whatever titles you'd like from a Blu-ray disc, and puts them into an MKV format, without adding compression or losing quality. It's basically just extracting the video & audio streams, and putting them inside an MKV "shell."

Get yourself a media player that supports 1080p MKV (this can be done for as little as $50 at this point), and go nuts!

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 08-17-2013, 09:17 AM:

I'll vouch for MakeMKV. Been using it on my HTPC to rip some of my Japanese BDs to MKV on my 2TB drive. Works great!

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 11-04-2013, 04:11 AM:

Never did report on findings here for DigitAll. Sorry. Got busy.

There is a demo download of the player itself only. No server or other forms of control included. Will play just seconds of a file before pausing out. Plays in a window, which you move to the second screen you have configured on your PC. Never did figure out how to get the window to completely fill out the second Windows screen without looking like a Windows app, but oh well. They urge you very strongly to make sure from the demo that the app is what will fill your needs before plunking down the $250 for the fully functioning player.

Asked about the server software, and was told that they sell it for about $5,000, already configured on *their* hardware, which is what they actually ship. Not for sale as just software.

Sigh. At $5k, it really is meant for museums, industrial presentations, etc. Could be an interesting alternative for small indie houses, it seems, though.

Definitely not a hobby realm solution, unless your already comfortably financially independent. (working on that...)

MakeMKV indeed rips a lot of stuff. Of course, the copy protection ripping seems nowhere near as wonderful as the reviews I've seen. It failed on four out of five BluRays that I tested. I even had the Disney "Hocus Pocus" feature on *DVD* fail. And that isn't even current. And it was attempted on a powerful machine.

Also, you are left with a merging problem when trying to join two or more files with different audio codecs. Say, a cartoon, a preview, and a movie. Trying to get the resulting merged file to not lose the original surround channels is a real challenge.

Back to work.