Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: QSC or JBL Pro for home theater?

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Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-03-2017, 04:38 PM:

Hi,

First post here. [Smile]

My room is roughly 15 ft long x 12 ft wide x 9-9.5 ft high. It is concrete all around and with a tiled floor (which will be fully carpeted for the new home theater).

I have searched/read previous threads on this forum regarding QSC vs. JBL Pro and it seems most are in favor of QSC. JBL just announced their new 200 Series pro cinema speakers which can be seen here: http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/200-Series#.WOK9MIh96Uk

Any comments/opinions on the new JBL 200 Series speakers?

I am considering the following two 7.1.4 setups:

QSC

Amplifiers: 6 x QSC DCA 2422 or 3 x DPA 4.2
Mains: 2 x QSC SC-1120
Center: 1 x QSC SC-1120
Side surrounds: 2 x QSC SR-1020 or SR-8200
Back surrounds: 2 x QSC SR-1020 or SR-8200
Ceiling speakers: 4 x QSC SR-1020 or SR-8200
Subwoofers: *will add my own subwoofers*

I've heard/read that the smaller (screen channel) QSC speakers are not that great and "real deal" are the larger QSC speakers. Is this true?

JBL Pro

Amplifiers: *still deciding but surely something from Crown*
Mains: 2 x JBL C211
Center: 1 x JBL C211
Side surrounds: 2 x JBL 9300
Back surrounds: 2 x JBL 9300
Ceiling speakers: 4 x JBL SCS 8
Subwoofers: *will add my own subwoofers*

The processor for both setups will be either the Arcam AV860 or the Acurus ACT 4.

Lastly, will either setup even work/sound right in my relatively small room?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-04-2017, 01:58 AM:

I guess you're trying to put more than enough power into the room.

I'd go for the QSC speakers any given time. I'm no fan of the JBL C211 and neither of the JBL 9300. While they don't sound bad, there are cheaper consumer solutions that yield better results, especially in the high end of the spectrum.

I don't have any experience with the Acurus ACT 4, but some experience with the Arcam AVR850. I think it's overpriced as a decoder, since you're essentially not going to use the built-in amplifiers. The AVR860 seems to be a genuine processor with balanced outputs, I guess it won't be any cheaper than the AVR850 though. People can go nuts over something like a decoder. The thing is usually running just two things that matter: the Dolby or DTS decoder software and room optimization software where it is Dirac Live v.s. Audyssey XT32, what most of the cheaper options use. Dirac Live v.s. XT32 is a close call in my opinion, I doubt you would hear much of a difference in an ABX blind listening test. For the rest it's just a simple DAC. Choose something that integrates well with your automation, if you plan to use any and skip most of the audiophile b.s.

Generally speaking, I'm not really a fan of 2-way stage speakers in any setup, because of their often somewhat limited ability to cope with highly complex soundtracks.

Posted by William Shenefelt (Member # 9953) on 04-04-2017, 09:54 AM:

I had 2 JBL 4333 (L-300) home built cabinet front speakers. Unfortunately I had gotten a klipsch front center channel hoping the horn would work ok with the front JBL horns and with it, side and rear Klipsch.

WRONG! They just do not blend well with the JBL horns I have so I added a 4333 as a front center channel and removed the Klipsch. I just ordered two JBL 3677's to replace the side Klipsches and will be using my JBL 4343's stereo system speakers as rear for theater as well at hat end of the 13.5 by 26' room. The Klipsch side speakers were mounted at the ceiling/wall interface but I have read that an ear level is preferred for side and rear surrounds so the 3677's will go on short stands. I think that is most likely preferable since I do have 4 ceiling 6.5 inch atmos speakers (Klipsch unfortunately but we do not always have what we would want at least not instantly). I think they will be ok since the atmos seem to mainly contain sound effects not dialogue so should not clash with the JBL's. Any thoughts on this blend? I do have another pair of the JBL LE-85 compression drivers (2420 pro designator) but only a pair of large 2345 horns for them. Have no good ideas as to what I might use them for in my theater setup though. They could only be used pointing straight up at room sides or ought at the room wall ceiling interface due to the 20 inch length. If all else fails, I could make crossovers and substitute the LE-85 drivers (with new smaller horns and probably crossovers I would also have to buy) to replace the midrange in the 3677's. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-07-2017, 04:11 PM:

Marcel,

Where did you listen to the JBL C211? It was just announced 2-3 weeks ago and is not for sale just yet.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-07-2017, 05:27 PM:

In one of the ugliest and tackiest casinos in the world. [Smile]

They essentially seem to be studio monitors repurposed as cinema speakers. Their flat design allows them to be placed behind screens with little space. Their shape will make it more difficult to build a proper baffle wall though.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-07-2017, 07:32 PM:

On the AVS Forum, JBL Pro speakers are very popular especially the 4722. Barely anyone uses QSC. Why do you think this is?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-08-2017, 02:20 AM:

I guess it's simply because people know JBL from their consumer products. QSC is a no-nonsense manufacturer of professional audio products, their focus never has been home theater setups and they don't really have many products that integrate into e.g. your living room. Their products are also a bit harder to get for normal consumers.

It seems to me like you want to build a professional setup, as close to the "real thing" as possible. If you've got the budget, why not use what the "real thing" is using?

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-08-2017, 09:08 AM:

Thanks.

If QSC is considered to be "superior" to JBL Pro, why is JBL more common in production/mixing studios? I don't think I've ever heard of QSC being used in such facilities?

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 04-08-2017, 04:21 PM:

Are you committed to one of these two options? In your position, with the dimensions of your room (and budget permitting of course) I would be deciding between a JBL Synthesis system, or alternatively (if I didn't want to commit to the Synthesis electronics package) Triad Speakers.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-08-2017, 04:34 PM:

No, not committed to either option.

I'm also looking at Seaton Sound.

However, any comments/opinions on the JBL 4429 speaker/monitor? It's from the JBL Synthesis line.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-08-2017, 05:28 PM:

If you want to go esoteric QSC for a home theatre they do have their Reference Monitor speakers: https://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/loudspeakers/reference-monitor-system/

Break out the cash though and they recommend pairing each RSC-112 with an RSB-212.

Now with the RSB-212, you could do a "reverse" bass management and let the three RSB-212s function as subs as well.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-08-2017, 05:35 PM:

quote: Haris Ellahi
If QSC is considered to be "superior" to JBL Pro, why is JBL more common in production/mixing studios? I don't think I've ever heard of QSC being used in such facilities?

You'll find all kinds of speakers inside studios all over the place. As long as they're calibrated and perform to specifications, it's fine. QSC has a few products on offer that would work fine in a studio environment (RSC-112, pretty expensive for what it is), but their target seemingly isn't studio setups for now.

People can get almost religious regarding sound, sound systems and also sometimes manufacturers. I think, you cannot simply state that QSC is superior to JBL Pro, you really need to consider the products themselves and what they're being used for.

quote: Haris Ellahi
However, any comments/opinions on the JBL 4429 speaker/monitor? It's from the JBL Synthesis line.

I've no experience with the 4429, but the 4425 was a pretty decent speaker, I'm not sure if I would recommend studio monitors for a theater setup though. It might just work, given your room layout, but studio monitors and especially the 4425 (can't speak about the 4429) usually offer a narrower stereo image.

Another thing I don't really like about the 4429, is the blue finish it seems to have on the pictures. I suppose you want to place them behind your screen, so try to avoid stuff reflecting back through the screen as much as possible. That's why cinema speakers are dull matte grey or black.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 04-08-2017, 06:52 PM:

quote: Haris Ellahi
However, any comments/opinions on the JBL 4429 speaker/monitor? It's from the JBL Synthesis line.

I have nothing bad to say about the 4429. However, I would default to using bass management in a theater like yours, making the outsize woofer for extended bass on the 4429 unnecessary. This is something I like about the Triad approach - they presume bass management, and their speakers are designed with a system crossover in mind to hand off bass to the subwoofer array.

Seaton does great work!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-08-2017, 08:05 PM:

As I go through this dilemma myself, a driver I keep coming back to is the Altec 604. It is still available from Great Plains Audio. http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/two_way.html

The 604 is a legendary speaker and has the distinction of having more hit records mixed on them than all other speakers combined.

As a cinema speaker, they would be an almost ideal point-source speaker and should have no problem playing through a screen (and have been used as cinema speakers by some, in the past). They were the best surround speakers I ever heard too.

One would have to make the cabinet for them but it is a simple box (look up the Altec 620 for the designs, they are on the interwebs).

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-09-2017, 01:46 AM:

I guess the biggest problem with coaxial speakers, especially when you build the enclosure yourself, is finding proper, time-aligned crossovers for them. Off course, you could go all expensive on them and do bi-amping and crossover and delay in e.g. a QSC DCP 300. [Wink]

I'd like to see a high density Atmos or DTS-X array with coaxial speakers one day.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-10-2017, 12:34 PM:

Thanks for the replies.

Honestly speaking, a full Seaton Sound setup is my first choice at the moment. I was just exploring the possibilities of using "real" cinema speakers in case it might offer a better movie experience. However, based on everything I've read, Seaton Sound has an excellent reputation as some of the best home theater speakers you can get. They are basically a mix-breed of pro audio and "audiophilish" speakers. I actually own one SubMersive right now and love it.

Looks like some may know Seaton Sound on this forum such as Daniel.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-12-2017, 03:52 AM:

I do know Seaton Sound, although I don't have any real experience with it.

For small-scale setups, there certainly are lots of alternatives that will most likely better fit the needs of your room. Triad, for example, builds speakers that are specifically targeted at the more professional home theater builds.

Still, most of the more esoteric stuff is more expensive than the professional equipment that goes into your average theater. In the case the budget is there, I'd just go for the professional gear any given moment, because that's the stuff I know. And that way, you're at least spending your money on stuff that matters and not some wonky design or stuff like astronomically priced speaker cables that you need to believe in, to make it sound better. [Wink]

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-14-2017, 08:50 AM:

Any opinions/comments on Klipsch Pro speakers?

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 04-14-2017, 09:49 AM:

Haris if going with pro cinema gear for audio what are you considering for the projector.

Regards.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-14-2017, 10:27 AM:

Due to my relatively small room and short viewing distance, I am considering the Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 100 screen (16:9 100" diagonal) in solid form (not micro-perf). For the projector, I am not sure at the moment but probably something from JVC or Sony.

Right now I am strongly leaning towards a full Seaton Sound setup for speakers/subwoofers.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-15-2017, 04:10 PM:

Any comments/opinions on the following setup?

Processor: Arcam AV860 or Acurus ACT 4
Amplifiers: 2 x JBL Synthesis SDA 4600 + 1 x JBL Synthesis SDA 8300
Mains: 2 x JBL Pro M2
Center: 1 x JBL Pro M2
Side surrounds: 2 x JBL Pro 9300 or 8320
Back surrounds: 2 x JBL Pro 9300 or 8320
Ceiling speakers: 4 x JBL Pro SCS 8
Subwoofers: 2 x Seaton Sound SubMersive HPi+ + 2 x Seaton Sound SubMersive HP-Slave

I've heard pretty amazing stuff about the M2s.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-19-2017, 12:46 PM:

Slightly off-topic...

Can a woven AT screen work with a viewing distance of roughly 7 ft? Or will visual artifacts be too visible from this viewing distance? I've heard good things about the DreamScreen V6 UltraWeave AT Screen which is known to have a very tight weave.

https://dreamscreen.no/collections/projection-screens/products/dreamscreen-acoustic-ultrahd-v6-screen-fabric-2x4-5m-79-x-177-fit-all-system

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-24-2017, 09:55 AM:

For very short viewing distances, I prefer a woven screen v.s. a perforated screen, even mico-perf can still be visible or create moire in small rooms.

I have no real experience with DreamScreen, if you're looking for an audio transparent screen for close viewing distances, you should really try to get a look at it yourself and check if the structure of the fabric is still visible at your viewing distances.

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 04-24-2017, 03:01 PM:

Thanks.

Any comments/opinions on the DT Screens AT Ref? Their website states "Surface structure indistinguishable from approximately 0.5m." Only disadvantage of the DT Screens AT Ref is the maximum height of the screen can only be up to 1.9 meters (which is fine by me as I only need a screen that is around 100" diagonal 16:9).

I'll try to get samples of the V6 UltraWeave AT Screen and the AT Ref. How large should the samples be in order to accurately sample the image of the screen?

Posted by Haris Ellahi (Member # 9941) on 05-05-2017, 06:12 PM:

Any comments/opinions on a JBL M2 based setup vs. a Meyer Sound Acheron based setup? I've heard amazing things on the M2 and actually currently own the LSR305 monitors with the LSR310S subwoofer for my desktop computer setup. They have amazing imaging and overall sound quality but do realize the M2 is in a different universe even though they both might share some similar traits. I've also heard some great things about the Meyer Sound Acheron speakers. However, I read a thread on another forum where members compared the Meyer Sound HD-1 or Amie to the new JBL 7 Series monitors. Nearly everyone noted the much larger sound stage and great imaging on the JBLs vs. the Meyer Sound speakers (even though they also sounded great it sounded as if the sound was coming from the speakers vs. "from space"). Quite a few people preferred the JBLs. Any feedback is welcome.