This is topic Sony Laser screen at EXPO Japan in forum Large Format Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 06-09-2005, 12:42 AM:
 
Just saw the 20 minute demo show on the 150 ft laser screen at Expo. There is a sometimes noticable join in the 3 projectors image. The colours are more vivid than Imax. Imax is much bigger looking, as it is about 5 times higher to the same width of the SONY DREAM THEATER. Im Here makeing a freelance doco on EXPO with the new sony HD camcorder.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Jorgenson (Member # 2989) on 06-09-2005, 04:50 PM:
 
Digital projection, I take it?
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-10-2005, 06:54 PM:
 
Sony is workng on a GLV laser system, which the EXPO Japan exhibit is based, and the 4 K SXRD projection system for "normal" cinemas. Blending programs are available from several manufacturers to parcel out the image to several projectors to increase resolution and brightness.....Sony cinema and Sony Xmax like special venue
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-23-2005, 04:42 PM:
 
Was there any information given on the brightness of the projected image, total lumens? Also did they use 3 projectors?
Did any scene give any clue of the black level of the system?

I am pretty sure that Sony will eventually replace xenons in the 4k sxrd projectors for lasers. That is possibly the only move that will kick up the lumens to dlp cinema levels.
 

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 06-24-2005, 12:38 AM:
 
I am at the Expo Media centre now. Just called to the sony SONY DREAM THEATER for a technical rundown. Unfortunately they didnt volunteer any. Might be secret
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-24-2005, 04:47 AM:
 
What are your impressions of
1 brightness
2 "black"
The color was good so that I know.

I guess the presentation would be more impressive if they had originated the source material on film. None of the cameras used are state of the art.
 

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Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 06-24-2005, 08:29 AM:
 
Mattias,

Hopefully, this might help answer your questions.

http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol40/pdf/sideview40.pdf

Best,

Joseph L. Kleiman
World Enteractive
www.worldenteractive.com/clarity.htm
 

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Posted by Aaron Haney (Member # 747) on 06-24-2005, 12:05 PM:
 
This appears to be the technology developed by Silicon Light Machines, for which Sony has an exclusive license. I wonder why Sony is even bothering to develop SXRD when they have this?

Also, I found this interesting tidbit in the PDF Joseph linked to:

quote:

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...we take the Expo as “Year zero” of the project to bring the GxL system imaging into the home.

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So ... when can I get one?
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-24-2005, 03:21 PM:
 
Thanks Joseph
It was interesting reading but lacking in facts. It told us it was a pain in the xxx to develop the lasers. Self inflicted since they had to do it themselves for Sony pride at the Expo.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-24-2005, 04:07 PM:
 
I wonder where these projects stand after Sony's recent announcement:

Reuters Article about Sony, June 23

quote:

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Sony will narrow the focus of its research and development to only promising areas such as next-generation video equipment, mobile phones and flat-panel TVs, the company's new president said on Thursday.

Offering a glimpse of where new management is looking to lead the struggling electronics maker, Ryoji Chubachi also said Sony would continue restructuring its sprawling operations while cultivating new businesses to drive earnings growth.

"While we have not made this public, internally we have been looking at several areas within our R&D from which we could potentially withdraw," Chubachi told a news conference, flanked on his right by Howard Stringer, the newly appointed CEO.

"I can't give details right now on what those areas will be, but I will (in the future) make it clear exactly what we will and will not do," he added, referring to Sony's R&D spending, which is expected to total about $4.8 billion (520 billion yen) this business year.

Chubachi and Stringer were overwhelmingly approved by shareholders on Wednesday. They replace Nobuyuki Idei and Kunitake Ando, who resigned from top management to take responsibility for the company's slumping earnings.

The new management team had told shareholders Wednesday that they would unveil a new strategy in late September to reallocate resources, suggesting they would look to narrow its product lineup or withdraw from struggling businesses.

They did not unveil specifics of that strategy, which has been internally dubbed "Project Nippon."

Welsh-born Stringer said he would use his skills as a communicator to help break down the "silo walls" that have been erected between different divisions of Sony, hampering collaboration and leading to missed opportunities in the market.

"We have to become one highly focused organization," Stringer said. "We have to talk to each other and we will re-evaluate R&D, rationalize product development, ensuring that the lineup is coherent and focused strategically."

Smiling often, Stringer tried to impress to the media that his first priority would not be to cut more jobs. He acknowledged on Wednesday that it would be difficult to "use an ax" in Japan.

"Cost cutting and axes are not solutions to all problems," Stringer said.

Some newspapers have been referring to him as a "cost cutter" while comparing him to Carlos Ghosn, another rare foreigner at the top of a Japanese company who saved Nissan Motor from near bankruptcy by squeezing suppliers and cutting staff.

In his former post as head of Sony's U.S. operations, Stringer oversaw "Project USA," which eliminated 9,000 jobs and achieved annual cost savings of $700 million.

Previous Next Under the current restructuring plan, called "Transformation 60," Sony has already slashed about 20,000 jobs, most of those in its loss-making electronics division. TR 60 is a three-year plan that runs through March 2006.

"We are extending Transformation 60. It was incomplete. It was a very good start, but we are examining different priorities for improving the performance of Sony," Stringer said.

Shares of Sony closed down 0.26 percent at 3,880 yen, underperforming the Nikkei average, which gained 0.26 percent on the day.

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Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 06-24-2005, 08:06 PM:
 
Kevin,

What was the seating like and what was the throw from the projectors to the screen? I've seen a concept painting of the theater and it had stadium seating. This leads me to believe that SONY might be using it as a digital solution for large format presentation. The screen is 32' x 164'. The IMAX in Sydney has a 97' x 117' screen. You could conceivably tile three of these systems and fill the Sydney screen.

I spoke briefly with Walt Ordway, the CTO of DCI, at LFCA (sorry for all the acronyms). He pointed out that a 2K projector can do a decent job of illuminating a large format screen, but the problem is filling the entire screen at such a short throw. He recommended tiling - a top-bottom tile of 2K projectors would produce a 4K equivalent image. Splitting the image into quadrants would produce something closer to 8K.

SONY, whose digital cinema products fall under their presentation projectors division, has been trying to get into the digital cinema market as quickly as possible to compete against TI. I'm sure Mark Cuban got a fairly good deal, but the SXRD has not been field tested on a regular basis in a theatrical environment, and the 4K projectors have had a number of issues. This system might be an alternate solution.

Even when digital cinema arrives on a large scale, most filmmakers I've spoken with believe that audiences will still want to view the film on the largest screens available (as is the case with IMAX DMR). It makes perfect sense for SONY to offer a large format digital solution before TI, either by themselves or partnering with another company. With at least 1000 digital systems planned to be installed domestically by next year, I suspect that by Summer, 2007, when Cameron's first feature since "Titanic" and "Star Wars: Ep. I" are both released in 3D, someone might have a prototype large format digital 3D system in place for public exhibition.
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-25-2005, 04:09 AM:
 
Are large format suitable big screens such as with IMAX and big screens in general really bringing in a large part of the income?
Do not most people watch movies locally on medium sized screens?

One advantage with the GLV projection technology is that it can project on any shaped surface, flat, curved or dome. Remember lasers stay very focused and that makes it easier to project on curved surfaces.
 

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 06-25-2005, 05:56 AM:
 
At Sony's DREAM THEATRE in Aichi Japan. The projectors are set back 20 or so ft from the back of the Seating area. The Blacks are black, and brightness is perfect. To Get the IMAX impact, another nine projectors (Total 3 ross of 3) might do it. I can understand that this would be very expensive. But there has to be a reason to leave ones home cinema.
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-25-2005, 07:13 AM:
 
Kevin B.
In Sony´s implementation the vertical resolution is 1080 lines with each line consisting of 1920 "pixels". With three GxL-systems blended you get the aspect ratio used in Aichi.

On the other hand E&S has implemented the same technology, glv, for plantariums. They use a device with 4000 lines vertically.

Single projector in centre of dome
fish eye lens and 4000x4000 pixels

dual projector setup
special lenses and a maximum resolution of 8000x8000 pixels

In the seconde case they must combine the vertical resolution of the two projectors. Reaching the 8000 across is just a matter how you program what is to be pixels across.

Projecting on a big screen is not a problem aspect ratio wise. The problem is to pump up the lasers to provide enough brightness on screen.

[ 06-25-2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Mattias Ohlson ]
 

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Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 06-25-2005, 11:05 AM:
 
The benefit of a large format operation is primarily to the equipment manufacturer and the exhibitor. An IMAX MPX system is a highly profitable venture for IMAX, bringing in $1.5 million per system. On a 2D presentation, DMR films average around 3 times per screen in box than their 35mm and digital counterparts. For the exhibitors, however, the revenue is considered incremental - 2D DMR productions bring in 3 to 4 percent of overall revenue to a film. 3D is another matter altogether, as shown by Polar Express, but with 2K digital able to project over 96fps through a single lens and server, once digital has a larger footprint, it's not certain how that will affect LF's overall contribution to box for a 3D feature. With 2K tiling, and a dual stream server, the bandwidth is sufficient enough to project 3D without having to synch up additional projectors to provide separate left/right images. Bandwidth is the main problem with 4K 3D single lens projection, however that issue is expected to be resolved in the next five years. I'm not sure about the new system, but Walt did mention that laser projection might be the best overall solution for filling a LF screen with a digital image. Ironically, the LF industry was created as a solution to multiprojection systems, and now it looks as if the immediate digital solution to replacing LF film may be made by taking a step backwards.
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-25-2005, 12:20 PM:
 
Joseph
Not necessarily if the lasers can be made powerful enough. Then you will only need one projector. However if you are in a hurry to use digital you might be forced to use several projectors. There is no reason to be in a hurry. IMAX is working just fine.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-27-2005, 09:55 AM:
 
With lasers, how do you handle the safety issues like an accidental specular reflection from the screen, or some fool looking directly into the projector beam?

http://www.etms2.com/safety/lasers.htm

quote:

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Laser Hazards/Health Effects
When a laser beam impacts the human body, a portion of the energy from the light is absorbed by body tissues. If the laser is powerful enough, this absorbed energy can cause damage to the tissue. The two parts of the body most susceptible to injury from lasers are the eyes and the skin. The potential for injury to the eyes is far greater than for any other part of the body. Acute exposure may cause corneal and retinal burns. Also, eye injuries may occur at relatively lower power levels. Chronic exposure may cause cataracts. Injuries to the eye are wavelength dependant. Particular wavelengths are more damaging to certain parts of the eye. Wavelengths which are focusable on the retina are much more hazardous to the retina, while wavelengths not focusable are more hazardous to the outer surface or lens of the eye.

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quote: Mattias Ohlson

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Why would there be specular reflection off a screen. Are not most screens close to lambertian diffusers?

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quote: Mattias Ohlson

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Perhaps the audience can agree not to do anything stupid when buying the ticket.
bought ticket=accepting safety rules -> no law suits

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Stupid customers: 17 pages and counting:

http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f5/t000931.html
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-28-2005, 03:13 AM:
 
Yes. there are probably to many of them and we all act like a fool sometimes. We must care even for the fools.
 

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 06-28-2005, 10:11 PM:
 
SUPER HIGH DEFINITION THEATRE
This auditorium (for about 170 people) is beside the Sony DREAM THEATRE.
While the audience is cued for the show, a Super HD camera photographs the group together. This 2 minute segment is the opener for the big screen show.
The pre show intro explains how SUPER HI VISION is made up of about four times as many lines as HIGH DEFINITION TELEVISION.(4k Projector---?? camera) Xenon lamp?
The theatre is stepped to about 10 ft high at the back the screen is about 45 x 23 ft. the auditorium is only about 40ft long. The visual effect (landscape scenery) is stunningly pure & clear. A cinema with this standard of presentation would be VERY ACEPTABLE. Mayby what is shot on film looks best projected from film and shot digitaly-project digitaly.
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-29-2005, 04:17 AM:
 
Kevin
Are you talking about the JVC/NTT pseudo 8k projection system. In that case they use 4 4k channels patterned to create 32 megapixels (single color) .
 

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 06-29-2005, 10:42 AM:
 
Wow!!!! No wonder it won me. Thats four X the best 4K feed proposed for replacing film projectors at present!!!!
That is not tiled is it? 32 Megapixles into one projector?
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 06-29-2005, 01:13 PM:
 
Kevin
I do not know exactly how they are projecting it. The system does use normal 4k panels but four of them instead of 3. They use two green channels since we are most sensitive to green and that will give us higher perceived detail. It adds up to 16 million green pixels, 8 million blue pixels and 8 million red pixels. We could say that a 4k system has 24 million pixels. So the system we are talkin about is something inbetween 4k and 8k.
 

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 07-08-2005, 06:01 AM:
 
How fast would the polygon scanning mirror be spinning? Would there need to be 2, one high speed for the line scan and a slower one for the frame scan? From what I have read about laser systems with a 1920 by 1080 res and using a line scan polygon with 108 faces it needs to run at 300rev/sec or 18 000 rpm?
 

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Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 07-08-2005, 06:08 AM:
 
A laser in the shape of a column is diffracted at the glv devices to vary brightness. This column is scanned acroos to creat a full picture 60 times per second or more depending upon implementation. That is a mirror at 3600 per minute.

You should check out Microvisions mems that do both h&v scanning in one chip.
 

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 07-10-2005, 12:02 AM:
 
What other technolgy is out there? There is this and DLP and reflective LCDs, but what else is being developed?? I personally think this laser system would be better then DLP, never been much of a fan of fix pixel displays, great at their native res but you get odd effects if your input is not at its native res, or have things in that area changed also? I still think Eidophor has to be the most creative system anyone has come up. Just a shame it so much work to operate one and keep it operating.
 

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