Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New 4k digital cinema projector.

This is topic New 4k digital cinema projector. in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-16-2008, 11:45 AM:

I hope this is the right forum. If not please move it, I apologize.

JVC showed its new 4k cinema projector at Cedia 07. While it is still quit large compared to consumer projectors it is smaller then the Sony 4k and most cinema DLPs. The contrast is rated at
10,000:1 which is a nice improvement for the cinemas with controlled lighting able to can take advantage of this.
If I am not mistaken I thought the cost had not yet been determined at the show but it was rumored to be around or shy of 100k.
At 4000 lumens it will do fine on small to medium size screens.
DLP will also go to 4k at some point.

Knowing everything will go 4k I sure would want to wait before making the switch to digital. This stuff changes and devalues very fast.

Looks like Barco is the first to bring it to market.

LX-5 technical specification
Light output
4,500 lumens
Contrast ratio
> 10,000:1 contrast ratio
Resolution
4,096 x 2,400 pixels (10Mp)
Display technology
LCoS
Lamps
Lamp
800W Xenon
Lamp lifetime (typical)
Warranted 750 hrs - max 1,500 hrs
Dimensions
Weight
Body only: 50kg / 110 lbs
Height - width - length
390 x 660 x 830 mm
15.35” x 25.99” x 32.67”
Lenses
Available zoom lenses
TLB HB (1.5 - 1.9:1) included
Available fixed focal lenses
TLB HB (1:1)
Features
Special features
Up to 4 picture-and-picture data and images
Adjustable color temperature
High dynamic range compatible
Inputs and outputs
Inputs
4x dual DVI-D (up to 12 bit)
Communication ports
RS232 in/out on D9
RJ45 (10/100 Base-T Ethernet)
USB port
Compatibility
Data
Computer graphics formats VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA, UXGA,
1080p HD, 2K up to 4K and 10MP
Safety
Safety regulations
UL 60950
CE compliant
RoHS and WEEE compliant
Power
AC power
100 - 240 VAC/50-60 Hz
Max. power consumption
1500 Watt
Order info
Order info
LX-5 R9011220

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-16-2008, 12:25 PM:

Is it official that DLP will go to 4K? The R&D and manufacturing costs may not make that an economic proposition.

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 01-16-2008, 12:41 PM:

4,500 lumens seems kinda low? any screen bigger then say 18 ft would be under lit.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 01-16-2008, 12:42 PM:

While this technology may make it into digital cinema, it seems from Barco's site that the LX-5 is a meeting room/presentation projector and is not designed for D-Cinema use.

This will be an important year to see if 4K has a chance. AMC installed Sony 4K in their new builds towards the end of last year. If Regal/AMC/Cinemark use 4K in a decent number of their conversions to D-Cinema then it has a shot. If they go 2K for conversions I think it will become the defacto standard for many years to come (until somebody comes up with a cheap retrofit kit down the road).

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-16-2008, 02:15 PM:

quote: Brian Guckian
Is it official that DLP will go to 4K? The R&D and manufacturing costs may not make that an economic proposition.

Yes 4k ( inside info ) is coming but it will be a while. The 2k platform is still young with plenty of financial gain left on the the table.

Im sure it will not stop at 4k. The Japanese are saying they want to broadcast Ultra High Definition 7,680 x 4,320 with 22 ch of sound by 2015.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-17-2008, 01:18 AM:

Yes, AMC, Regal and Cinemark agreed that 4K is not ready for the big time masses yet so they are going 2K. 2K is still better than many of the crappy general release prints that are being manufactured today.

Now hopefully no one here actually believes that AMC really bought the 4K machines they have installed... does anyone? Ya got to be kiddin if you think they did... after the SDDS debacle Sony owes AMC ALOT!

At 130K for the big big... like a Volkswagon bus on end in size... for a measly 16,000 lumen 4K projector that also requires a multiple number of xenon lamps operating at the same time to make that measly 16,000 lumens... now no one is going to take that sort of idiotic fandangery as legitimate are they? Its daily operating cost alone would a nightmarish! Oh... and ys have to buy Sony's special xenon lamps for it too!

Just a few films have been released in 4K so far... and can anyone here actually state factual information to support the ongoing theory that 4K is actually all that much better?

The data rate to the projector is ungodly high at 4K!

Mark

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 01-17-2008, 10:02 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
for a measly 16,000 lumen 4K projector that also requires a multiple number of xenon lamps operating at the same time to make that measly 16,000 lumens

The new Sony projectors only use one xenon lamp. It was the original versions that used two.

Also, the issue with 2k isn't the quality vs. mass produced 35mm prints the issue is that it isn't much better than the quality of Blu-ray. Granted, a mass produced 35mm print shown in a run of the mill megaplex run by 16 year olds won't look much better than blu-ray either but 5 years from now it would be nice if theaters could advertise 4k as an advantage.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-17-2008, 10:46 AM:

Lcos/SXRD panels just cannot handle the heat. I see 4k machine with 2k content nothing moe then fill factor for larger screens but without the light output it defeats itself. DLP is the clear winner here.
By the way this guy has the Sony in his demo room.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-17-2008, 09:19 PM:

Lyle,

The big 16000 lumen projector that Sony displayed at Show East did indeed take multiple lamps... The dang thing was as big as a VW bus stood on end... Its the Sony that Muvico installed outside Chicago... Brightness and heat will always be a factor with the imagers they use.

Mark
posted from Marks iPhone

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-18-2008, 10:27 AM:

quote: Alan Gouger
By the way this guy has the Sony in his demo room.

That's not a bad way to spend $6 million dollars! [Smile]

For perspective, does anyone have info on how much outfitting a single screen in a modestly-size location costs? Assuming that you can get discounts based on multiple purchases, so that you're not overpaying because you only need to outfit one room instead of 6 or 10.

16 subwoofers... sorry, I just can't stop smiling!

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 01-18-2008, 12:19 PM:

quote:
That's not a bad way to spend $6 million dollars!

Pity he couldn't scrape up a few bucks for a web designer [Wink]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-18-2008, 01:30 PM:

I am just wondering how he gets THIS response:

quote:
With a frequency range of 1 - 102,500 Hertz,

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-18-2008, 03:00 PM:

Can somebody please tell me that this is a joke? Who the flip would want a living room that looks like the picture towards the bottom of the Surround Processing page?

Oh, how we digress.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 01-18-2008, 04:30 PM:

quote: Ken Lackner
Can somebody please tell me that this is a joke? Who the flip would want a living room that looks like the picture towards the bottom of the Surround Processing page?

May be it was Andy Summers THX setup..... [Big Grin]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-18-2008, 07:13 PM:

Why does that site have a photo of an Emmy on it? Oh, all right, I suppose we *are* talking about television.

Nice web design, by the way. [evil]

Posted by Jeremy Kipnis (Member # 4640) on 02-06-2008, 02:37 PM:

Well, the website should be looking and running better now.

Thanks for the comments. [Razz]

Frequency response is audibly flat at the center seat, and measures flat from 1 Hz - 102,500 +/- 3 dB. And the fully calibrated picture quality of the SRX-R110 as I have implemented it gives 70 mm Academy Screening conditions a run for their money.

Would anyone like to join us for a complete, hand-tailored demonstration of your favorite material?

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-06-2008, 02:44 PM:

That is just ridiculous, as no source material (existing home video formats available for screening in this room) can even take advantage of such specs, picture or sound. I mean sure Blu-Rays are impressive for what they are, but nowhere near theatrical grade quality. Audiowise, anything over 20k is above the best human hearing anyway.

Thank God all of the cable runs are exactly the same length though. Whew!!! I hope the wire was all ran in the same direction, since of course we all know that wire was meant to pass signals in a particular direction. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-06-2008, 02:48 PM:

Jeremy,

What microphone(s) and measurement system did you do the response measurements with? Sorry, but no digital system in existance right now can give 70mm a run for its money on the same size screen! I'll state this and as everyone around this site will tell you I'm a digital fan big time.

Thanks!

Mark

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-06-2008, 03:55 PM:

To state that a image system is even equal to 15/70 IMAX is quite a statement. I wouldn't mind seeing this system; I live very close to Redding.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-06-2008, 04:30 PM:

Well, I guess we don't have to worry about the audio following the accepted h.f. roll off! Louis

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 02-06-2008, 04:44 PM:

quote: Jeremy Kipnis
I have implemented it gives 70 mm Academy Screening conditions a run for their money.

I like to see them prove this on a 50ft+ screen in a Large Cinema, this is just a "High Spec" A/V Home Cinema set up, can not be compered to the Reel thing [Smile]

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-06-2008, 07:11 PM:

Dude what the heck are you selling here? Surely you don't think this is theater quality stuff?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-04-2008, 05:07 AM:

He's a snake oil salesman selling hyperbole to very rich people who don't really care as much about the quality of what they put in their home theatres, just that they can brag about it to their friends.

Unfortunately, I know a few idiots like this.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 04-04-2008, 07:33 AM:

Wow! I attended an Igor Kipnis concert 25 years ago. The man was extremely talented and personable. Just when you thought the world's foremost harpsichordist would be nothing-but-stuffy, he was very entertaining.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-13-2008, 11:35 AM:

quote: Louis
Well, I guess we don't have to worry about the audio following the accepted h.f. roll off!

That was my first thought.

Oh, please! If this isn't a joke, it's consumer b.s., using home theater (sic) equipment, and observing no quantitative cinema installation measurements or standards. As such, it can only be apples and oranges. These "audiophile" types think putting more speakers and money on something is the answer. Dig the rope-a-dope phrases:

quote: Jeremy Kipnis
Frequency response is audibly flat... fully calibrated picture quality... as I have implemented... hand-tailored demonstration.. (and from the website,) my years of viewing experience

All indicating a totally subjective installation, by someone who is ignorant of actual cinema work.

He also says somewhere that his room treatment exceeds the specifications for ANECHOIC CHAMBERS - suggesting it's totally dead! Check the photos: speakers incorrectly placed and driven by tube-type amplifiers (providing their own stray light in the room).

Well, I suppose he discovered he couldn't spout that nonsense here and get away with it, because he never came back.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-13-2008, 11:57 AM:

Frank said

quote: Frank Angel
He's a snake oil salesman selling hyperbole to very rich people who don't really care as much about the quality of what they put in their home theatres, just that they can brag about it to their friends.

Frank my Great Grandfather sold snake oil, preformed in Saloon's, and had a traveling minstrel show! Please don't lump him in with this theif!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-15-2008, 12:18 AM:

No disrespect to your Grandpop, Ron. I am sure you Grandfather would be laughing right along with us at this folly. 1Hz to 102,500Hz -- what reference microphone did he use to arrive at this supersonic figure? What speakers does he use to reproduce it?

But then, he doesn't need to provide any technical tests documentation because he is selling this stuff to the same people who by cars because of how "rad" the lights on the dashboard look.