Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: CBG-NATO Selects AccessIT

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-02-2008, 01:24 PM:

Any opinions about the AccessIT equipment that will be rolled out to a LOT of locations?

Link

Washington, D.C. —Apr 1, 2008

NATO’s Cinema Buying Group Selects AccessIT to Provide Digital Cinema Equipment and Service to Over 8,000 Independent North American Screens
AccessIT Offered the Winning Package of Extensive Experience, Exhibitor Choice, and Competitive Cost, Says Wayne Anderson, Managing Director of CBG-NATO

The Cinema Buying Group (CBG)—a buying program of the National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO) for small and independent theatre operators—today announced the selection of Access Integrated Technologies, Inc. (AccessIT) (NASDAQ: AIXD) as the digital integrator for the CBG’s 600+ members in the United States and Canada.

Wayne Anderson, CBG managing director, complimented the quality of submissions from all vendors in the CBG’s Request for Proposal process. In the end, he said, “AccessIT offered the winning package of extensive experience, exhibitor choice, and competitive cost. Our mission is historic: ensure that independent cinemas survive and thrive in the digital age—and AccessIT proved its skill and determination to make that happen.”

“We are pleased to receive such a ringing endorsement from CBG-NATO and from our studio partners. Everyone at AccessIT is proud to have our pioneering efforts recognized by such an important group,” said Bud Mayo, chairman and CEO of AccessIT.

Chuck Goldwater, president of AccessIT’s Media Services Group said, “We continue to be committed to bringing our digital cinema program to exhibitors large and small. We are proud to have been selected and look forward to working with NATO and the members of the Cinema Buying Group to provide the foundation for the benefits of digital cinema to their theatres throughout the country.”

The CBG has over 600 members representing over 8,000 screens in North America. The CBG had assured its members that it would, to the best of its ability, negotiate a deal that provides some access to digital equipment and service for all members in good standing before film ceases to be available.

Chuck Viane, president of distribution for Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures said, “Today’s moviegoers want to see films projected under the best possible conditions, and digital projection provides a superior experience that adds to the enjoyment factor. Therefore we applaud the Cinema Buying Group’s efforts on behalf of the world of exhibition and their choice of AccessIT. Clearly, everyone in the industry must do its part to make going to the movies as exciting as possible. We’re thrilled to see so much interest in installing digital projection in theaters around the country, and we will continue to support and encourage the exhibition world in making this a reality.”

Julian Levin, executive vice president, Twentieth Century Fox said, “We are delighted the Cinema Buying Group has selected AccessIT to be the integrator of digital cinema projection equipment for its exhibition members. Fox has been engaged in conversation with the CBG for many months and this announcement is not only timely but will move the process forward. The efforts of the CBG in pulling together such a significant group of independent exhibitors is nothing short of amazing. The independent exhibitors are critical to the overall industry transition and with 8,000 screens strong, the CBG is a very significant group. AccessIT brings a wealth of experience in not only procuring and installing digital projection equipment but also in providing the necessary training and services required to insure a smooth transition from 35mm to a digital projection platform. Fox has existing deployment arrangements with AccessIT which includes contributing virtual print fees toward the cost of DCI-compliant digital projection systems. We look forward to discussing the addition of the exhibition members of the CBG.”

“It’s great to have the Cinema Buying Group and proven digital cinema integrator, AccessIT at the forefront of the digital integration process,” said Mark Christiansen, executive vice president of operations for Paramount Pictures. “The theatres represented by CBG will see their path to the advantages of digital cinema, including 3D feature presentations, made much easier because of AccessIT’s knowledge and experience.”

The CBG began as a small buying program for independents—but mushroomed quickly into its current size and significance when it became an advertised vehicle for independents to acquire digital cinema equipment and service. NATO’s vice president and general counsel, Kendrick Macdowell, said, “NATO’s commitment to the broadest possible digital deployment for our industry is well-known. We’re proud to have worked with a man of Wayne Anderson’s stature to ensure that the march of digital cinema does not leave behind the vital independent segment of exhibition.”

The selection of AccessIT came after an extensive Request for Proposal process that initially attracted ten vendors with substantial submissions. The CBG narrowed the list of vendors to four finalists—AccessIT, Digeserv, Kodak and Technicolor—and sought additional information before making the final selection. “All four finalists are to be commended for their dedication to independents and the quality of their submissions,” said Anderson.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-02-2008, 02:01 PM:

How will this be financed? Have any of the film distributors discussed VPFs for these exhibitors? It appears that Twentieth-Century Fox has not, according to the press release.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-02-2008, 03:38 PM:

April Fool?? Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-02-2008, 04:10 PM:

No, it's legit...I got the same thing this morning via email.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-02-2008, 04:53 PM:

Thinking of retiring Louis???? In just 5 short years there will be very little first run film based stuff running in the U.S.A. and not enough other screens to make a decent living if you're just film based. I think I just heard a HUGE CRASH as to the value of used projection equipment! .15 cents to .25 cents a pound or there abouts [Eek!]

.

I just posted this on the Film Handlers forum before I saw it here so the mods can go ahead and delete it. The equipment list for theaters to choose from is multi vendor based... not like many theaters know which stuff is good or bad.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-02-2008, 06:03 PM:

Cool...I hope they don't only have DLP based projection technology...or the CRASH you heard was the sound of NLA for the projectors in digital.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-02-2008, 06:10 PM:

Mark,

Have you seen any details about what vendors will be on the list and what the cost to the exibitor will be?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-02-2008, 07:39 PM:

Does AccessIT use any other equipment besides Christie for digital projectors and Doremi for the movie servers? I thought they used Christie/Doremi stuff exclusively.

According to the press release, they'll be offering more brands of equipment. I would assume Dolby's Digital Cinema line of equipment and projectors from Barco and others would come into play. But with so many Christie/Doremi installs already out in the field I have to wonder if that won't be the default configuration.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-02-2008, 07:52 PM:

Nope, Christie/Doremi are not by default this time around. Barco, Doremi, Christie, Dolby etc. are all supposed to be on the list. I don't know about NEC though... The only thing thats not negotiable is the definate use of Access-IT's library and software... The software supposedly has to run on what ever server you select.

Yes Steve... I'm sure YOU will hear a crash as well as alot of crying as all those expensive Kinoton projectors are thrown from many multiplex's balconys for a trip to the scrap yard.

Mark

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 04-03-2008, 04:02 AM:

I've heard through the grapevine that AccessIT may also be offering a Sony option soon. I'm unaware of the validity, but it seems to make good business sense to be able to offer a 4K option to customers who demand it.

One thing I'm curious of: If AccessIT has multiple options of players, have they successfully ported their TCC software to Dolby product, or for that matter, Sony players?

Since most of the players run on a Linux platform, I would imagine it would be possible, but proprietary hardware is everywhere in this industry and it seems to be a challenge to get anyone to cooperate with anyone else when it comes to cross compatible software.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-03-2008, 08:19 AM:

A little off topic but I'm surprised that Christie or somebody else hasn't designed a 4k DLP projector using by using 12 DLP chips and using optics to create one 4k image. I'm sure it's technically possible and given the cost of the Sony 4k units should work out at least around the same price. The DLP chips themselves can't be that expensive since you can get single chip DLP TV's for under $2000. Even if the chips were $2000 a piece that would only be $18,000 more plus whatever the additional cost to the optics are.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-03-2008, 08:24 AM:

Lyle,

If you read the do-do on that teenie weenie CD-Rom Sony was handing out at the show there is a section on the 4K Sony chips... you'll find that they are no more than 4 chips integrated onto one substrate... If you physically see one of the chips it will be immediately obvious thats what they did.

I think it'll be up to the individual equipment vendors to adapt their servers to run on the Access-IT software. So much for the nice Dolby oerating system.

Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-03-2008, 08:35 AM:

What is so great about the AccessIT software and why would they care if their customers use it? What does it do that the Dolby (etc.) software doesn't?

In any case, this whole thing seems like vaporware at this point, considering that VPFs have apparently not been determined and that there has been no discussion of the cost to the exhibitor (if any). Also, AccessIT isn't exactly a hugely successful business (check the stock price), which may present problems down the line.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 04-04-2008, 08:46 AM:

quote: Tristan Lane
One thing I'm curious of: If AccessIT has multiple options of players, have they successfully ported their TCC software to Dolby product, or for that matter, Sony players?

AccessIT had 3 servers at ShoWest - GDC, Dolby and of course DoReMi. Both the DoReMi and GDC used the TCC interface but if I'm not mistaken the Dolby still retained it's GUI.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-04-2008, 04:30 PM:

Okay Adam I'm in the right thread now! So here goes my question again. 4,000 screens already digital, 8,000 more for NATO and 14,000 for the big boys that means in 2 years or so you are going to have 24,000 or more screens digital.

What does that do to the cost of a film print? When does the scale tip to be digital or you will not be in the business? 2 years, 3 years maybe 4 years for larger towns.

The small towns that don't make the transition will lose product first how long for them. I say 2 years and small towns (under 30,000 lets say) will not be able to get film prints.

That scares me with the people I work for!

I wonder if AccessIT was the low bidder or the bidder with most cost efficient plan those are two separate issues.

Steve it appears to me that TI is pushing the home theater market for DLP really hard. I wonder if that is just a natural outgrowth of the work on Cinema, the larger market for home or because the Cinema part just isn't working out!

[ 04-04-2008, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Ron Funderburg ]

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-04-2008, 05:58 PM:

quote: Ron Funderburg
I wonder if AccessIT was the low bidder or the bidder with most cost efficient plan those are two separate issues.

Based on the information that CBG sent out, I don't think it was so much a "low bid" contract but more along the lines of who could actually negotiate the VPFs and make the financing happen. It appears that there will be a different "deal" for a seasonal or second run operation vs a full-time first run operation.

quote: Ron Funderburg
Steve it appears to me that TI is pushing the home theater market for DLP really hard. I wonder if that is just a natural outgrowth of the work on Cinema, the larger market for home or because the Cinema part just isn't working out

DLP was designed for the home market. The D-Cinema market was an outgrowth of that as well as a marketing opportunity. The problem that TI has with DLP is that the cost of flat panel (LCD and Plasma) has come down drastically to the point where people will purchase a 42" flat panel for $1800 vs a 65" DLP rear projection set for $1700 (using wobulation to get a "1080P" image).

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-08-2008, 09:26 AM:

So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

So my question is, why all this back-room dealing and skullduggery? Why isn't this equipment being sold just like all other cinema equipment is sold?

Say I am a small independent or better yet, a museum or performing arts center and I am planning to build a new theatre in say two or three years. I want to install D-Cinema because I hear the mantry -- "In 4 years 35mm projectors will be hurled off the balcony." So how come I can't go to a my Cinema Supplier who sold me my Century or Simplex and say, "I'd like to buy a Christie or Barco and a server please."? Why isn't it as easy as that? Why do I need a buying group to get a price? And has anyone even seen a price yet -- I mean, not some guess but a price tag...a list price on a 2K projector? Why is this a secret?

If I go to AccessIt and say, I want to install D-Cinema, are they going to tell me no, you needed to belong to CBG; if your not, your price is going to be double for the same equipment we sold to them? How does this move D-Cinema along to the omni-present format that the industry seems to claim it wants it to be?

In fact, the organization I work for will have a new 75 million (so far) performing arts facility up in 4 years. I would like to be able to tell them, "You will need to put this digital equipment into the booth" and give them a list....with estimated that can be gleened from published LIST PRICES. Why can't they just put the equipment out on bid like they would any other equipement that is needed? Who are the vendors? Who is going to bid on this? Evidently CBG requested "bids" and got prices, why can't any other buyer do the same? And just for fun, will CBG now never accept any new members? Won't it be to their advantage to add new members continually so they can garner even more "buying power"?

None of this makes sense to me.

Lastly, doen't anyone find it quite ironic that the Disney hack was all gushing about how great this CBG deal was when it was Disney that just a few weeks ago sent out that letter which stated in no uncertain terms that just because you install D-Cinema (and by jove it damn well better be 100% DCI compliant or no cartoons for you), that doesn't for a second mean that Disney will sell you product. Which I read to mean, if you were on their shit list when you had 35mm and couldn't get first run out of them, your spending umpteen hundred of $$ on D-Cinema won't change that one iota. Kinda makes you feel all warm and cuddly inside, doesn't it?!

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-08-2008, 10:47 AM:

You don't need to be a member of a buying group to purchase equipment. You can buy the stuff through many equipment dealers. The purpose of the CBG is to get the cost subsidized by studio supported financing (i.e. Virtual Print Fees).

The CBG is to provide finacing for conversions. There will probably be some limited time where new builds will get partially subsidized but long term a new build will be expected to purchase D-cinema equipment at full price just like film equipment today.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 04-08-2008, 11:12 AM:

The equipment is easily available for anyone to buy (my dealer has sold several Barco/Dolby systems to his other clients), the only question in my mind is availability - i.e. can production timely meet the needs of both the deployment entities and those who want to buy outright. The only issue I see with buying right now is making sure your dealer and/or manufacturer commits to giving you any and all upgrades (hardware and software) to meet final DCI/SMPTE standards.

The benefit I see with CBG is the collective bargaining situation where everyone in the group gets the same deal where if you went direct to AccessIT each exhibitor's deal might be slightly different. I don't think there will be a huge difference in up front costs with CBG or direct to AccessIT since I understand the exhibitor investment levels are being dictated mostly by the studios, the difference will come in negotiating a group price on the delivery and alternate content fee rates.

I have to wonder if the studios wouldn't do VPFs (or other forms of subsidy) direct to CBG or it's members so they had to choose one of the deployment entities in order to get the financing side . . . . . I also wonder if the CBG thing was mostly behind the 10,000 screen total that AccessIT announced.

Edited to add: with CBG an exhibitor might get a better per screen maintenance cost over going direct to the manufacturer.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-10-2008, 05:53 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

600 members??? Frank... you're a tad bit off. Its actually close to 8000 members. That would account for most of the 10,000 screens that AccessIT recently got the funding for to equip.

Delivery can vary a little but Christie projectors are typically a month or less. As always check with the vendors so you can set your sights. The conversion does not have to take place tommrrow... it can take place as complete systems are assembled on site... and the Digital gear can be tested on site as well before the film gear is removed and sent for scrap.

Mark

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-10-2008, 06:08 PM:

The 8000 is the screen count they don't say how many locations or members that actually covers.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 04-10-2008, 09:13 PM:

It is my understanding that all 8000 screens will not be participating in the AccessIT 10000 screen deal. There will be different classes of theatres (first run, second run, Drive-In, ect.) that will get treated differently.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 04-11-2008, 03:20 PM:

quote: Matt Fields
It is my understanding that all 8000 screens will not be participating in the AccessIT 10000 screen deal. There will be different classes of theatres (first run, second run, Drive-In, ect.) that will get treated differently.

I am in one of those CBG "classes" you speak of. Even though I am a CBG member, I still don't expect shiny new digital equipment at my drive-in any time soon. More realistically... it'll be 5-7 years from now, and then they'll probably provide me with the state of the art 2k machines that Carmike will eventually ditch.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2008, 07:09 PM:

Actually it is up to the theater that is a CBG member if they even want digital at all. Also local servicing entities will be doing these installs... so if the folks you are using for your current film service work are digital capable and qualified then they will most likely be be doing your installs.

It is unlikely that any CBG member will be receiving used gear. Since the financing entity more than likely wants to see alll new gear to be able to keep the values up on the installed gear as much as possible. At any rate used gear isn't so bad either. We've already bought some used BARCO gear and aside fomr BARCO being one sucky company the gear after receiving the current updates is performing perfectly and with out any breakdowns.

I will say again... those dealers that choose to remain in the dark ages and just continue doing film work are doomed in just a few short years.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-12-2008, 09:50 AM:

quote:
So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

So my question is, why all this back-room dealing and skullduggery?

...

And just for fun, will CBG now never accept any new members? Won't it be to their advantage to add new members continually so they can garner even more "buying power"?

There was no skullduggery. The whole CBG thing was well known to any theatre owner who keeps up with the industry. It was also well publicized to all NATO members...that's a benefit of membership. Any owner who missed out on the original CBG group has only himself to blame, for not staying informed.

The CBG is still accepting new members, but the reason for the closed ranks of "original" members is that there had to be a specific number to plug in to the conversion deal for proposing the virtual print fees. New members MAY be able to get in on the VPF deal, but it's not guaranteed -- however the new member would be able to benefit from the buying power of the large group. The VPF will not be around forever; anyone who's considering building a new cinema now will just have to figure the cost of digital projectors into the cost of building a cinema. Therefore being a member of a buying group might provide a cost savings.

To clarify the numbers being used above, there are about 600 CBG members, who collectively control about 8,000 screens. I'm not sure about how many locations are represented -- they range from single-screens to big plexes.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-19-2008, 10:20 AM:

Bump.

Is this still vaporware, or has CBG and/or Access IT announced actual details on price and availability of equipment?

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 05-19-2008, 11:13 AM:

I heard details are still being finalized and will be announced in the fall (this is according to an associate of ours who is a member of CBG).

As far as I know AccessIT is still hammering out details of phase 2 (we have a building project coming up and they could not give me hard details yet)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-19-2008, 03:04 PM:

What I heard from two different large D-Cinema manufacturers recently is that there are still no funds available to Access-IT to carry the plan out. I thought I had heard that they were at least approved for another 10K screens a few months back...

Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-19-2008, 03:24 PM:

So what was the point of the April 1 announcement, then? All it says is that CBG has selected AccessIT on the basis of some terms that have not yet been specified. That seems pretty useless to me until actual numbers are stated.

What happens if AccessIT goes bust, anyway? Is there a backup vendor?

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 05-19-2008, 03:26 PM:

The press release I received in March said that Disney, Fox, Paramount and Universal agreed to support AccessIT's phase 2 - with those 4 on board they expected Sony and Warner to follow suit . . . . I guess things have not moved as quick as they thought.

On some level I think CBG chose AccessIT because the studios were resistant to paying VPFs directly to exhibitors.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-22-2008, 10:02 AM:

I got an email from NATO yesterday explaining and detailing the "physical booth requirements" prior to the digital installation. Reading over that list... it may be awhile before I even consider converting.

24/7 External Broadband connection
Hell, we don't even have dial-up at my theatre, and there is no broadband service in our town.

Dedicated Phone Line
Another $100 a month for another business line. Is that per machine?

18" x 18" Port
Looks like we'll be knocking out concrete block for this one.

13 consecutive rack spaces in the sound rack
Oh crap.. my sound racks are 15 spaces tall. Doesn't leave alot of room for non-sync sound and transmitters.

Maintain an audio system with a minimum 5.1 sound.
For a drive-in ? I guess we'll just sum all of the 5.1 outputs down to two channel left and right for car stereo.

Port glass shall be single pane, with optical coatings to minimize flare
I guess my air curtain port blowers are gone? How do you keep the bugs off the port window glass?

Projectors require a minimum floor space of 30” wide x 72” deep. Additional clearance of 36” on sides and 36” in rear is recommended for maintenance access.
For a 12' x 12' booth.. it's gonna be a tight fit.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-22-2008, 10:07 PM:

That must be an abbreviated edition of the requirements. They left things out like power availability... For instance some of the theaters I service don't have three phase power. Exhaust blower CFM ratings, surge protection and so on down the line.

Mark

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-23-2008, 12:10 AM:

It is an abbreviated list, I was just listing some of the things that I could see right off were going to cause some headaches for me.

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 05-23-2008, 12:28 AM:

Luckily, power requirements don't require 3 phase if a CP2000ZX or CP2000M can be used. They only require 220 single phase. Alas, I doubt they would work in your drive-in but who knows? Even it they would, I'd push for a CP2000 so you can light that screen up nice!

Exhaust could be increased with a booster fan on top of the projector.

The phone line is just for a backup connection to the LMS. Should the broadband connection go down, they will still be able to connect via modem to your LMS and then into your network.

The audio thing can be fixed. Many of the carmike sites were only center/surround and they got Rane mixers to make a 2 channel source.

I'd be interested to know if they let you keep the air curtain in lieu of the port glass.

A 12x12 booth will be fine for that projector. You'll be eliminating your platter (or both projectors if you are running c/o) You'll probably notice an increase in space.

It will be interesting to see how Christie/AIX handles the installs of these systems into older sites that have many more variables than the modern-day multiplex.

One suggestion: If you have the floor space in your office, have them place the LMS in there so you can make changes to your shows without going up to the booth. Edit: Come to think of it, would they even put an LMS in a single screen site? It seems that would be a waste of materials since you wouldn't need extra storage. And if that is the case, they should discount the fees associated with installation and maint. since there is that much less equipment to worry about.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-23-2008, 05:43 AM:

None of these items is a problem. Money will fix them all. When you go digital TV, be sure you have a large supply of money handy!

For the record, the CBG is NOT a non-profit. Louis

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 05-23-2008, 07:17 AM:

quote: Tristan Lane
The phone line is just for a backup connection to the LMS.

The phone line is a requirement per DCI and I understand that Fox is NOT booking digital prints for theatres without one. Our lines are being used as the primary KDM delivery point for Deluxe and Technicolor.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-23-2008, 07:36 AM:

Stupid question: if (and I do mean if) the CBG deal actually comes to fruition, will members have a choice about when to do the conversion, or is it a now-or-never deal? What if an exhibitor wanted to wait a year or two (or five or ten) before converting? Would that be an option under the CBG terms?

The requirements do seem a bit onerous, especially since many exhibitors will want to retain 35mm capability and will need to cut new portholes and somehow make space for the DLP units. And isn't it premature to specify such requrements when the terms of the deal haven't even been settled yet?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-23-2008, 09:06 AM:

quote:
Money will fix them all. When you go digital TV, be sure you have a large supply of money handy!

Actually Louis I think its time for you to wake up!
All of our customers that have installed TV have had far far lower operating costs both in labor, maintainance, and lamps than the film systems they USED TO RUN. All of them have had ZERO problems and all of them have left the film projectors unused since the first day TV became operationsl. Just go figure too... all of these customers want more TV!

quote:
The requirements do seem a bit onerous,

Typical of what we have had to do in our installs. It would be nice if BArry would post the entire list so others here may learn from it ahead of time... BTW Barry installing D-Cinema in your tiny booth is not a problem as long as you have three phase power. All of the controls are at the rear of the projector at least with Christie so side clearance is not that much of an issue except on the lamp door side.

Mark

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-23-2008, 09:48 AM:

The mailing said the information is confidential but I don't think the power requirements are confidential. It says that a 3-phase 208V 60 amp per leg circuit and a dedicated 110 V 20 Amp circuit must be available for the projector.

For the exhaust requirements it is a little more vague and says that specifications will depend upon the projector model.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-23-2008, 10:01 AM:

Barco only requires 220, single Phase except for the largest model, DP-3000 which does need 3 Phase.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 05-23-2008, 11:23 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
will members have a choice about when to do the conversion

I'm guessing there may be a small window of a few years, but the way I understand AccessIT's phase 1 they had to complete ALL installs by a specific date in order to get the VPF payments (I think there was some leeway given to committed sites, but I understand there was a huge push to get them done by the deadline) - so you may be able to choose approximately when to get installed inside of a 3-5(?) year window.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
All of our customers that have installed TV have had far far lower operating costs both in labor, maintainance, and lamps than the film systems they USED TO RUN. All of them have had ZERO problems and all of them have left the film projectors unused since the first day TV became operationsl

This is mostly true for us as well, even with the Christie maintenance our expenses are only marginally higher - electrical usage between our original Christie lamphouses/projectors and the digitals are almost even (the difference is when both are "at rest" - the digital draws more); after we started turning ours off overnight we saw our monthly bills return close to our pre-digital usage. Our lamp costs are higher for digital, but that is because I am sizing our lamps to ensure 14FL over the life of each lamp and not by estimated lumens from the manufacturer (and it is very possible that our 35mms were under lamped for the screens, I was not involved in the initial construction)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-24-2008, 09:30 AM:

From what I hear the theater owners will be able to pick the installer from a list of qualified ones which may include your present dealer if he has his act together. Christie has admitted to me that being the sole installer/repair source is not the better way to go.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-24-2008, 09:35 AM:

Yeah, it does tend to make one's payroll grow exponentially. And the liklihood of getting good techs, as a percentage, goes down as one grows that big.

Steve

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-25-2008, 11:09 AM:

quote:

I will say again... those dealers that choose to remain in the dark ages and just continue doing film work are doomed in just a few short years. <> Digital gear can be tested on site as well before the film gear is removed and sent for scrap.

Mark, we get it....you think digital will take over the world tomorrow. And maybe we will be mostly digital at some point in time, but the actual time-frame in which this will happen is nothing but wild speculation.

Since 1999 people who supposedly were in the know (TI, George Lucas, et al) were trumpeting that same line -- film will be dead in 3-5 years. And every year after that we hear the same thing. So excuse me, but your "few short years" have stretched out much longer than the digevangelists' predictions, and as far as I can tell, those predictions were (and are) much more wishful thinking by people who have a vest interest in digital sales than they are real facts.

quote:
All of them have had ZERO problems and all of them have left the film projectors unused since the first day TV became operationsl. Just go figure too... all of these customers want more TV!

You are talking here about brand NEW equipment, much of which is barely a year old. It is a bit disingenuous to compare maintenance and service costs of a digital install to film projection equipment that has been in service for years if not decades. If there were any substantial maintenance costs for digital projection equipment this early on in the game, it would indicate monumental quality control issues if not actual design flaws.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-25-2008, 11:48 AM:

"Digevangelist". A new buzzword is coined.

There is no VPF deal and there may not be one before next year, if ever, but there are some independents cutting to the chase and spending their own money. The reason in part is to take advantage of the possibilities of alternative programing. How well running alternative content works out profit wise remains to be seen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2008, 11:26 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
It is a bit disingenuous to compare maintenance and service costs of a digital install to film projection equipment that has been in service for years if not decades.

Frankie,

David Z. more or less agreed and his gear IS at least several years old now. If you lived out west where projection is still as wild as the west used to be you'd be praying for that Digivangelest to come convert all over to digital!

Personally I don't see alternative programming going anywhere until they have really great alternative programming to offer.

Mark

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 05-26-2008, 04:09 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Personally I don't see alternative programming going anywhere until they have really great alternative programming to offer.

It's not an issue of what there is to offer. It's the ability to put on the big screen anything that the customer wants. The ability to display anything from xbox, blu-ray, powerpoint, or home-made video is one of the selling points of digital cinema. I've seen private events involving client supplied content increase dramatically since the installation of d-cinema projectors. We had a charity organization organize a Halo 3 tournament at the theater using 4 sreens and a total of 16 xboxes all networked together. This took place on a Wednesday night and produced revenue far greater than we would have seen by using those 4 screens to play the current titles.

In addition, we were able to rent out our entire multiplex from 9:00am to 12:00pm to host a film festival using many older titles presented using HDDVD and Blu-ray. The royalties paid for presenting via a home-grade format were less expensive than film, and the customer was educated on the quality reduction, but chose this because the film rental was cost-prohibitive for the one-time showing. The theater would have been closed during this time, and instead we were able to generate revenue on an otherwise lackluster Thursday morning.

The fact that we can offer this service to potential event customers sets us apart from the film-based theaters since we are much more flexible with what we can present in-house.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-26-2008, 05:19 AM:

Tristan,

Not to rain on your parade, but a cheap $2500 (or less) video projector currently accomplishes that same goal you just wrote about. For running DVDs and such, a low end video projector does most people just fine.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-26-2008, 11:40 AM:

A low end video projector, or even a pretty good video projector costing a few thousand dollars, doesn't have the brightness or lens quality of a Christie CP2000.

That difference is easily seen in quite a few commercial theaters on a daily basis. Just check out the digital pre-shows at a Cinemark theater or any other theater using a small video projector. It sucks. Consumer projectors are simply not designed to throw images as large as those found in a commercial movie theater.

Our local Carmike theater had a system installed a couple or so months back that uses the CP2000 for pre show tasks. It looks a LOT better than any image a consumer grade projector can throw.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-26-2008, 11:56 AM:

Actually, we have been in the alternative content projector market for quite a few years. I disagree that a $2500 projector does an adquate job. I don't doubt that some people use them.

However, I also don't agree that a CP2000 is at all required for virtually all alternative content and in fact would likely be worse for some types of events.

PowerPoint, for example, it is ideal to have a projector that truely hits a pixel for pixel image. So long as computers primarily have 1024x768 as their most popular output, having a projector that recognizes that and will put out a "True" image that is pixel for pixel, will always look sharper. LCDs normally beat DLPs for PP shows too since DLPs tend to have a shimmer to their pixels versus the rather static LCD.

As far as DVD movies, getting the image scaled well is key to the display...either LCD or DLP can work well here and neither need be a Dcinema grade projector. The medium is the limiting factor here so getting good whites and blacks will be the trick, not resolution. Note, LCD and DLP projectors have been constantly getting brighter while lowering their costs.

How big is the image going to be? If the image will be 15.5' or less tall, then a 6000 lumen projector on a matte-white screen will be sufficient to hit 14fL (the DCinema standard). One of the services we have supplied projectors for only provides 720p content...a 1080 projector isn't going to get anymore out of it so why spend the HUGE difference in price on a 2K projector? Better to buy and use a 1.3K projector now (we sell primarily 1366x768 or 1366x800 projectors) that are really good for Power Point and also look pretty decent for the MET and other alternative live broadcasts.

As technology marches on and 2K source material becomes more previlent, I'll bet 2K projectors will come down to more like the 1.3K projector prices we currently have. With a long-throw lens, 6000 lumens, HDCP complient (can handle 1080p, including 24p varieties) is on the order of $10K for an LCD or 50-70% more for a similar DLP. A 4000 lumen machine is $2000-$3000 less. They just are not that expensive.

Now if you have a DCinema projector already...by all means take advantage of it for alternative content...but if you don't and all you want is alternative content, the are cheaper solutions that will perform every bit as well.

Steve

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-26-2008, 12:06 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
If you lived out west where projection is still as wild as the west used to be

Huh?

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 05-26-2008, 08:46 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Not to rain on your parade, but a cheap $2500 (or less) video projector currently accomplishes that same goal you just wrote about.

Wow, Brad. For someone who insists on the best possible presentation, I'm surprised you made the comparison between an off the shelf video projector and a cinema grade projector. That comparison is like pitting a B&H 16mm projector against a Kinoton.

Oh well, not everyone sees eye to eye on this subject.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2008, 08:53 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
PowerPoint, for example, it is ideal to have a projector that truely hits a pixel for pixel image. So long as computers primarily have 1024x768 as their most popular output, having a projector that recognizes that and will put out a "True" image that is pixel for pixel, will always look sharper.

Actually we run Power Point presentations through the Geffen box into the Christie ZX DVI input in our shop for training and it looks exceptionally good. No pixel mismatch, creeping or artifact problem what so ever.

quote: Jack Ondracek
Huh?

Jack... Remember you don't live in the West... you live in the Northwest... So you probably haven't been privy to the inside joke!

Mark

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 05-26-2008, 08:59 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
through the Geffen box

Not too shabby of a box is it?? I hope they keep making them.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2008, 03:36 PM:

quote: Tristan Lane
Not too shabby of a box is it??

Excellent products! Geffen isn't going anywhere, just expanding the product line. The nice part is these individual dedicated boxes can cover a myriad of different inputs for far less than one "all in one" conversion box can and these seperate boxes do a much better job at what they do.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-27-2008, 07:51 PM:

Gefen.......I have a small trunk full of their "blue" widgets for rentals [Smile]