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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-29-2007, 01:37 PM:
Regal, DreamWorks CEOs see 3D transforming movies
Link
By Gina Keating
Thu Mar 29, 10:10 AM ET
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Three-dimensional film technology could transform the movie business, with viewers willing to pay a premium for it, the heads of the top U.S. movie theater chain and largest independent animation studio said on Wednesday.
Michael Campbell, chairman and CEO of Regal Entertainment Group, said box office results from the handful of 3D films released so far convinced him of the "potential advantages for theaters, not just studios" in switching to digital projection systems that support modern 3D technology.
Campbell told analysts at a Bank of America conference that audiences were willing to pay premium ticket prices for 3D films, and said they preferred them by a 2-to-1 margin.
Another deciding factor for Regal was a strong show of support for the new medium by Hollywood studios, among them the Walt Disney Co. and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc., which announced this month that it will make all its movies in 3D, starting with "Monsters vs. Aliens" in 2009.
Disney is set to release its animated film, "Meet the Robinsons," on Friday to 701 digital 3D screens, the largest such release ever, and has set up a studio with director Robert Zemeckis to produce animated movies in the new format.
"What that is going to mean for our industry in a few years when we have thousands of 3D screens ... if we can sell 10 to 15 percent higher (priced) tickets, that is a needle mover," Campbell said.
DreamWorks Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg told analysts in a separate session that making animated films in 3D would add $10 million to $15 million to production costs, but he considered it a worthwhile expense.
"The audience actually feels in the (animated) world in a way that we have not really seen before. From a filmmaking standpoint, it is really exciting," Katzenberg said.
Katzenberg said nearly every major Hollywood studio plans to make "big event films" in 3D for release in 2009. He added that one day, "the mainstream of moviemaking is going to be the 3D experience ... and consumers will pay a premium."
The upcoming slate of 3D films from top directors, including Steven Spielberg, Zemeckis, James Cameron and Peter Jackson, would hurry along the digital transition in theaters, which had been "slow to embrace" the new technology.
"If half their business is a premium business, that changes the whole economics of the business," he said. "The momentum is gathering. This is the most exciting thing that has happened in the business since I have been in the business."
Katzenberg said that if enough theaters have converted to digital 3D by the 2009 release of "Monsters vs. Aliens," he would consider releasing the film only in that format, and making a 2D version available only on DVD.
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-29-2007, 02:27 PM:
This is all wonderful while 3D is a "theater only" experience. If 5 years from now all movies (live and animated) were produced in 3D it could be the differentiator that makes it worthwhile to see something in the theater. The problem is, 3D will make it to the home without question at some point. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to add a polarizer to a DLP (or LCD projection) TV set.
I challenge the studios to commit to only release 3D to theaters. If they did that, it would actually make a real business case to go digital. Of course you'd get better quality by just using two side by side 35mm projectors but we won't go there!
Speaking of quality, is it true that Real-D is not really full 2k resolution for some reason? I remember reading that a while ago.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-29-2007, 03:29 PM:
quote: Lyle Romer
If 5 years from now all movies (live and animated) were produced in 3D it could be the differentiator that makes it worthwhile to see something in the theater.
No, the "differentiator" is the idea of getting out of the house. 3D is an add-on, but you're right...it will make it to the home sooner than later.
Besides, some movies (kiddie ones mainly) might need 3D, but a well told story doesn't. Without the 3D angle, Disney's "Meet the Robinsons" would be a mere blip on the radar the same way "The Wild" was last year.
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-29-2007, 05:40 PM:
quote: Lyle Romer
Speaking of quality, is it true that Real-D is not really full 2k resolution for some reason? I remember reading that a while ago.
The Source resolution of the 3D content may be the same as a regular 2K presentation, or it may be packaged smaller, but it's the limitations of the light engine's processing force you to reduce the image size on the chip.
Here's why:
Normal 2D presentations are shown at 24 FPS. 3D presentations are played at a much higher frame rate, with a ratio of 6:2 (or triple-flash). What this means is that each eye's image is flashed 3 times in one second. This adds up to 144 FPS, and exceeds the engine's bandwidth. Reducing the presentation area on the chip lightens the processing load of the formatters and interface.
How much "quality" is lost, is debatable. Triple-flash will ensure smooth movement and minimal ghosting of the 3D image.
Posted by Chris Parry (Member # 4178) on 03-30-2007, 01:04 PM:
Let's not forget that the studios make reams more money on DVDs than they do on theatrical, so if it's scientifically possible to get 3D into the home setting, you can bet they're already working on it.
And then where's the theater industry going to look? Smell-O-Rama?
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-30-2007, 01:14 PM:
So the strategy is to raise ticket prices, but not necessarily to sell more tickets. Hmm. If the real money is made on concessions, how does this master plan help exhibitors in the long run? Are customers who pay extra for tickets less likely to blow as much money as usual on concessions? Do the distributors get a piece of that extra 3D fee?
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 03-30-2007, 01:53 PM:
quote: Tristan Lane
Triple-flash will ensure smooth movement
No it doesn't. There's a huge amount of strobing in the current 3D setups that manifests itself more clearly as movement on the screen increases. The only way to avoid it is to put BOTH eyes on the screen at the same time - which is probably only possible if you use two projectors. Most viewers probably consider the strobing as a "cool 3D effect" but it's actually quite annoying to those of us who know what real 3D should look like.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 03:53 PM:
On top of topic of this thread, I agree audiences may be willing to pay some premium to see movies in 3D. But movie distribution companies had better be careful not to kill the golden goose by price gouging customers either. With other items like gas prices now shooting through the roof (again) public anger over price hikes on various things will be a dangerous factor.
RealD runs at 48fps. Each "eye" sees 24fps.
The pixel count is not reduced either. Meet The Robinsons measures 1998 X 1080 pixels.
Further, imaging chips like the 3-chip 2K DLP units in Christie CP2000 projectors don't "scale." It doesn't work like a CRT gun. The pixel grid is very much a very fixed thing. There are different framing formats that fit within the maximum area of the 2K DLP chip's 2048 X 1080 pixel grid. 1998 X 1080 is one of them.
As to reduced light output, yes, the image is not quite as bright. The RealD Z-filter that swings in front of the projector lens reduces some light. The silver screen does as well. I'm not sure what effect the higher frame rate has on reducing light levels.
At any rate, I'm going to check out the movie this weekend (maybe even late tonight). One item I'm really excited to check out is the 3D movie trailer for U2: 3D.
quote: Mike Blakesley
DreamWorks Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg told analysts in a separate session that making animated films in 3D would add $10 million to $15 million to production costs, but he considered it a worthwhile expense.
I assume that $10-$15 million figure Katzenberg mentions for the additional cost of 3D is for rendering a "2nd eye" for 3D CGI animated movies. It shouldn't cost nearly that much to shoot a 2nd eye camera angle for a live action movie.
Another thing I find odd...that $10-$15 million additional is considered a worthwhile cost. The added cost of shooting a 35mm movie in 65mm instead can run under $1 million. But I guess that isn't worthwhile.
Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 03-30-2007, 07:46 PM:
quote: Bobby Henderson
RealD runs at 48fps. Each "eye" sees 24fps.
I could have sworn our Christie tech said it was 144fps. In other words, he said six frames are shown for every normal (1/24 sec) frame. In that 1/24 of a second, the right and left eye pictures alternate three times for a total of six frames... three unchanging left, three unchanging right.
2(eyes)*3(alternations)*24(different fps)=144fps.
quote: Bobby Henderson
The RealD Z-filter that swings in front of the projector lens reduces some light.
In the Christie setup, the projector actually increases bulb power once it receives the 3-D cue. Once again, this is what I've learned from our Christie tech. I'm not 100% sure of this information.
Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 03-30-2007, 08:16 PM:
I think 3D is a gimmick that will wear off as soon as people realize the quality will be lower and the glasses can be an annoyance.
quote: Mike Blakesley
Besides, some movies (kiddie ones mainly) might need 3D, but a well told story doesn't.
I agree with this completely.
Let me add something else...
The day that most mainstream movies come out in 3D will be the day I completely stop going to the movies. Unless the technology can make the color quality reducing glasses or headache inducing headsets unnecessary, I will skip.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 08:46 PM:
quote: Jarryd Beard
I could have sworn our Christie tech said it was 144fps. In other words, he said six frames are shown for every normal (1/24 sec) frame. In that 1/24 of a second, the right and left eye pictures alternate three times for a total of six frames... three unchanging left, three unchanging right.
I don't know. I'm still wondering about that.
First of all, the JPEG2000 movie on the hard disc is definitely stored at 48fps.
The thing that makes me wonder about that "triple flash" stuff is the viewer complaints of strobing at some theaters. If the projector was alternating the left and right eye images back and forth three times for each frame and having a total refresh rate of 144Hz it would be impossible for the human eye to detect any flicker. The vision for most people runs between 60 and 70 fields per second. Our persistence of vision blurs over the area where one frame changes to the next, which is what makes frame rates as low as 24fps tolerable.
quote: Jarryd Beard
In the Christie setup, the projector actually increases bulb power once it receives the 3-D cue. Once again, this is what I've learned from our Christie tech. I'm not 100% sure of this information.
I have to wonder about that as well. I'm under the impression the techs from Christie simply adjust the lamp for a certain balanced level once the silver screen is installed. A level ramped up even higher could result in hot spots on the screen. Is the lamp power in a CP2000 projector something that can be cued and controlled via a Doremi DCP-2000 server and Christie DCA21 automation?
quote: Mike Williams
I think 3D is a gimmick that will wear off as soon as people realize the quality will be lower and the glasses can be an annoyance.
I won't judge RealD until I see it in action.
Having seen a number of IMAX-3D and 35mm polarized color 3D movies, I know the potential of 3D. The technology certainly has a relevant use for certain kinds of genre movies, event programs and motion simulator rides.
Posted by John Stewart (Member # 989) on 03-30-2007, 09:24 PM:
I've seen both CHICKEN LITTLE and NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHIRSTMAS and thought the 3d effects were very good. Can't say that CHICKEN LITTLE was that good of a film but the effects were. NIGHTMARE was pretty darned amazing to me. It seemed to me that the 3d effect in the first few min. of the film was minimal but the depth got better as it went along. I love that film and the 3d effect was sweet. I wouldn't say that the technology degraded it at all in the theaters I saw them in. The glasses might be a little annoying if anything. The CHICKEN theate used Christies projectors but I don't know what the other theater used.
John
John
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-30-2007, 09:50 PM:
Somewhere on the forums, somebody was wondering how much more it costs to show a film in 3D. Well I got the new "I.M.E." today and it says (from ShoWest info) that it costs $40,000 to $50,000 to outfit a projector with 3D, and about $25,000 in "annual fees" (WTF?!)
So I can totally see the premium price.
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 03-30-2007, 10:34 PM:
Bobby,
I think I understand what is causing the "strobing" problem. I'll see if I can explain what's happening. Assuming each frame is shown three times to each eye...
1. Left Eye: sees frame 1; Right Eye: sees nothing.
2. Left Eye: retains frame 1 with Persistence of Vision; Right Eye: sees frame 1.
3. Left Eye: sees frame 1 again; Right Eye: retains frame 1 /w POV.
4. Left Eye: retains frame 1 with POV; Right Eye: sees frame 1 again.
5. Left Eye: sees frame 1 again; Right Eye: retains frame 1 w/ POV.
6. Left Eye: retains frame 1 w/POV; Right Eye: sees frame 1 again.
THEN
7. Left Eye: sees FRAME 2 for first time; Right Eye: retains frame 1 w/ POV.
8. Left Eye: retains frame 2 w/ POV; Right Eye: sees frame 2 for first time.
...etc.
So, for a moment (admittedly, an extremely SHORT moment) one eye is retaining frame X, and the other eye is actually seeing frame X+1. That isn't enough to cause a problem... until the motion on the screen starts to increase. The faster things are moving on the screen, the more the eyes appear to separate, and what you see is the same thing you would see if two interlocked 35mm projectors were very very slightly out of sync. What's funny is if that happened in the 50s, that was considered a poor presentation. "Poor presentations" is one of the reasons 3D didn't last very long.
I thought the leaves blowing in the beginning on Monster House looked absolutely ridiculous because of this phenomenon.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense. I think that's what's happening. Help me out if you think I'm wrong.
Hopefully I didn't put Heenan to sleep.
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-31-2007, 12:28 AM:
hmmmm didn't notice any strobing however that sequence with the characters running across the credits was a waist of time in 3-D. Couldn't tell what was going on. Maybe that is the strobing explanation but as far as strobing of light I didn't notice anything. Some of this jerky look I have seen in 2D content when things move fast across the screen. Something I have never seen with film.
As far as the U2 trailer it was ok but as far as it playing on the features playlist it is not nor did it have to be.
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-31-2007, 01:16 AM:
Here we go.......
quote: Bobby Henderson
Further, imaging chips like the 3-chip 2K DLP units in Christie CP2000 projectors don't "scale." It doesn't work like a CRT gun. The pixel grid is very much a very fixed thing. There are different framing formats that fit within the maximum area of the 2K DLP chip's 2048 X 1080 pixel grid. 1998 X 1080 is one of them.
Bobby, your statement is partially incorrect.
Granted, the DMD's themselves aren't capable of scaling. The cinema processing portion of the projector is capable of scaling an image down to a specified presentation area while still displaying the entire package. I believe that this is required as per DCI spec. The projector can scale an image down , but an external scaler is required to upscale any image.
As I stated in my prior post, the source may be true 2K, but in no way is the projected image 2K in 3D on currently installed projectors.
quote: Bobby Henderson
As to reduced light output, yes, the image is not quite as bright. The RealD Z-filter that swings in front of the projector lens reduces some light. The silver screen does as well. I'm not sure what effect the higher frame rate has on reducing light levels.
The silver screen actually has the opposite effect. As stated by many people before on this forum, it is the highest gain screen available. Although the main purpose for the silver screen is to maintain polarization.
In fact, on the all of RealD installs that I have done, a gain of at least 4fl was seen on regular 2D light levels using the same lamp. When increasing lamp sizing, the silver screen allows for 2D light levels to exceed 25fl, whereas with both the Zscreen in place and 3D glasses in front of the meter, the light level drops to around 1/4 of 2D light levels.
quote: Jarryd Beard
2(eyes)*3(alternations)*24(different fps)=144fps.
Jarryd, You are correct.
RealD's website has information that explains this in greater detail, and the reasoning behind it.
Which leads me to the next quotes:
quote: Mark J. Marshall
There's a huge amount of strobing in the current 3D setups that manifests itself more clearly as movement on the screen increases.
Mark, I wonder if the presentations you have seen were configured properly, or if the setup/equipment was faulty.
The point of triple flash is to assist in the persistence of vision between the left and right eyes. In each second of image projection both left and right images are projected 3 times in an alternating manner. The amount of image overlap you describe is probably not noticed by everyone, but it makes sense to me.
The 3D configuration allows for dark time to be inserted between frames in order to reduce this effect, which makes me even more suspicious that the presentation you watched was configured incorrectly. Although, I have heard stories of certain people who process the visual image in a way that bothers them and makes it unacceptable.
Finally:
quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm under the impression the techs from Christie simply adjust the lamp for a certain balanced level once the silver screen is installed. A level ramped up even higher could result in hot spots on the screen. Is the lamp power in a CP2000 projector something that can be cued and controlled via a Doremi DCP-2000 server and Christie DCA21 automation?
What Jarryd is referring to is the transition of lamp power between 2D and 3D. Some theaters are running mixed 2D/3D trailer programming. So when the pennywise (or any other automation capable of commanding the projector to switch to a different format) cues the projector to switch to a 3D format, the projector increases the lamp output to a preset level.
The "channels" or individual picture format presets on the christie projector can be programmed to each use a specific percentage of lamp power to suit the needs of the format.
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 03-31-2007, 10:42 AM:
Tristan,
Out of curiosity, what could be configured incorrectly that would generate the phenomenon I'm describing? Have you ever seen a 3D presentation with two projectors? I'm curious because I think that unless you know what it's supposed to look like, the problem I'm describing may not appear to be a problem. I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything, but I think it might be a case of: if that's the best you've seen, it may just appear normal to you.
Also even with a dark area inserted between the frames, the problem will still exist. I've seen 35mm interlocked 3D where the belt slipped slightly during start up. The film was not off by a full frame (which I've also seen - thank you, Fox), but the shutters on the projector were not in sync. The problem appeared exactly the same. In fact the projectionist stopped the show, reset the projectors, re-threaded and restarted it. The guy sitting next to me in the audience didn't notice the problem, so I had to explain it to him. He said he thought it looked fine, but it was the first time he had ever seen 35mm interlocked 3D. And of course, 35mm frames also have black between the frames. So, the black doesn't do anything to offset the fact that one eye is always 1/144th of a second behind the other.
One thing that may help is if they could figure out how to do realistic motion blur (in 3D) on these CG movies. That might help a little bit. I don't know. I'm still waiting to see something that was actually filmed in 3D presented on one of these projectors. Something live action. Then all of the motion blur would be there, and we could see how the system really performs. Everything up until now (I think) has been CGI, and/or the 3D has been faked.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-31-2007, 10:54 AM:
Alternating eye 3d is often used and was actually put forward in the 50's under the nord 3d system
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 04-09-2007, 01:21 AM:
Another article
quote:
More movies to be offered in 3-D
By GARY GENTILE, AP Business Writer
Sun Apr 8, 11:07 PM ET
By the end of the decade, Darth Vader could be rattling sabers with his enemies above the heads of moviegoers, and Buzz Lightyear could be flying off the screen on his way to infinity and beyond.
For real — or at least the cinematic version of real: 3-D.
A growing number of blockbuster, live-action films and animated movies are expected to be offered in in-your-face 3-D in the next few years, as thousands of theaters are outfitted with the special projectors and screens needed to show the films.
Jeffrey Katzenberg, chief executive of DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc., is so gung-ho about 3-D that he has said his studio might start exclusively releasing movies in the format as early as 2009 with its "Monsters vs. Aliens."
"For Memorial Day weekend 2009, I would like to see 3,800 locations and 6,000 screens that we can put our movie on. And if they are there, then we will be exclusive in 3-D," Katzenberg said at a recent investors conference.
So far, moviegoers have reacted positively to the few 3-D films that have been released in recent years.
"Meet the Robinsons" from The Walt Disney Co. debuted March 30, earning $25.1 million in its opening weekend.
More than a quarter of that revenue came from the 581 screens across the country that showed the film in 3-D, the company said. Those moviegoers were even willing to pay a few extra bucks to don special glasses and watch characters leave the screen.
A number of high-profile filmmakers have 3-D projects in the works, including Peter Jackson, Robert Zemeckis and James Cameron.
Walt Disney Co. has released 3-D versions of three animated films and recently signed a deal with Zemeckis to produce more. The studio is also rumored to be making the sequel "Toy Story 3" in 3-D, a report the studio declined to confirm.
These days, 3-D films are more than just a gimmick.
For theater owners and studios, the technology could be a lifesaver, luring people back to multiplexes for an experience that cannot be matched by sophisticated home-theater systems or stolen by pirates with hidden camcorders.
The theater industry is also battling competition from video games and other alternative entertainment along with Internet downloads that will soon deliver high-definition films directly to homes.
Film exhibition companies looking to protect their business believe 3-D will boost revenue. Some industry executives think theaters can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of a ticket for a 3-D feature.
"If we can sell 10 percent to 15 percent of our tickets annually at a higher price point, that's a real mover of the needle," Mike Campbell, chief executive of Regal Entertainment Group, the nation's largest theater chain, said at the investors conference.
About 700 theaters across the country are now outfitted with 3-D technology, with thousands of others moving to spend the $17,000 needed to install the equipment.
Moviemakers, meanwhile, estimate that making a movie in 3-D can add as much as $15 million to the cost.
Today's 3-D technology is far more advanced than that used in the 1950s, the heyday of gimmicky 3-D films.
Previous 3-D systems projected two images on the movie screen, one for each eye. That required the use of red and blue lenses or even glasses with mechanized shutters that opened and closed quickly to separate the images.
With newer systems, moviegoers still need to don special glasses but not the cheap cardboard variety with blue and red lenses.
Instead, special polarized lenses will separate the stereo images projected on specially coated screens.
RealD, a Beverly Hills company, is the leader in modern 3-D with systems that will be operating on about 1,000 screens by the end of the year.
Its technology uses a special movie screen painted with a silver oxide to direct more light back to the viewer instead of scattering wavelengths the way normal screens do.
The theaters also use digital projectors that show movies stored in bits on a computer hard disk rather than traditional film.
Dolby Laboratories Inc. recently unveiled plans to market its own 3-D technology that would work with existing movie screens.
"The momentum is gathering, and I think this is probably the most exciting thing from a filmmaking and filmgoing experience that has happened in my time in the business," Katzenberg said. "There's nothing more compelling than this."
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-09-2007, 09:55 AM:
quote: Gary Gentile, AP
Some industry executives think theaters can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of a ticket for a 3-D feature.
If movie studios and movie theaters start price gouging for 3D movie tickets they'll run a very strong risk of driving away lots of audiences.
A buck or two tacked onto the standard ticket price might be able to fly, but not much more than that. I'm even wondering if the couple bucks extra added to the ticket price will remain tolerable to viewers once the novelty of this version of 3D wears off. We're talking resultant ticket prices that equal that charged for a IMAX-3D show.
And then there's the issue of the glasses that customers can keep. Many feel they're paying the higher ticket price to offset the cost of the 3D glasses. How many people are going to show up at the box office to see another RealD format movie with glasses they already have and requesting the $2 additional fee be waived?
My advice to those bean counters is to do a lot of research in the trenches before they even think about adding up to 50 more on a movie ticket's price for 3D. I think they're overly optimistic in their assumption of what the market will really bear.
quote: Gary Gentile, AP
Its technology uses a special movie screen painted with a silver oxide to direct more light back to the viewer instead of scattering wavelengths the way normal screens do.
According to comments in a video about RealD made by Lenny Lipton, Chief Technology Officer at RealD, the new "silver screens" being installed for RealD really aren't silver at all. The highly reflective surface is actually an aluminum-based coating and not silver at all. The "silver screen" term is just something that stuck.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-09-2007, 11:23 AM:
Any boxoffice person who tells the public that the extra $ is "to pay for the glasses" is a dope. Just tell the people that 3D is more expensive to make and the equipment to show it costs $40,000 more than "regular" equipment, plus there are those mysterious yearly fees.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-09-2007, 11:26 AM:
Even if no one at the theater tells customers why the tickets cost more, many customers are going to arrive at the simple conclusion they're paying extra for those glasses.
Most RealD equipped theaters don't have to deal with this issue right now, but I'll bet it turns up this fall when at least 2 or 3 different RealD movies are released.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-09-2007, 03:46 PM:
Thing is, most recent 3D experiments like "Spy Kids 3-D" didn't require any special theatre equipment, where this new deal does, so people should be made aware. A lobby sign or something, at least. Otherwise the stupid media will jump on the old "we're getting ripped off at the movies again" bandwagon, if they haven't already.
Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 04-09-2007, 06:10 PM:
For what its worth it is Carmike's policy to make sure people are NOT told they are pwying for the glasses; the extra cost is to be attributed to the fact the movie is in 3D.
Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-14-2007, 03:08 PM:
quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm even wondering if the couple bucks extra added to the ticket price will remain tolerable to viewers once the novelty of this version of 3D wears off.
By that time, won't the digital cinemas and 3d be more common anyway? And if 3d is commonly available, then I'd imagine that the price of the 3d tickets will be lower, likely comparable to current ticket prices.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-14-2007, 05:58 PM:
RealD will have to rethink the pricing on their equipment and royalty fees if Dolby's 3D format (nearing release) gives them a lot of competition.
Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-15-2007, 03:36 AM:
Even if it doesn't, they'll still have to rethink it. People right now are willing to pay the premium because it's something new. People understand that a new technology costs quite a bit. But they expect the price to go down eventually. Regardless of if the real price of the technology goes down or not the people will expect it to happen with time and will expect the price to go down. So eventually, they'll say "If the price has gone down why hasn't ours. This is much like people have done with gasoline in the States. They'll see on the news that the price of crude went down on a certain day and their price on gas didn't drop a bit, but they didn't understand the fact that the gas they buy today was purchased as crude weeks ago when the wholesale price was still high.
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 04-18-2007, 04:16 AM:
LA TIMES story on D-Cinema's progress:
quote:
Showing at theaters: urgency of digital shift
By Josh Friedman, Times Staff Writer
April 9, 2007
The revolution in moviegoing will be digital, theater owner Bill Campbell knows.
But Campbell, who runs independent theaters in Sheridan, Wyo., and Miles City, Mont., isn't ready to take up such an expensive cause just yet.
"I'm still using film projectors that were built in the 1950s and I can fix them myself," Campbell said. "What if your digital server goes down? Dark screens are death to the theater industry."
For moviegoers, Hollywood's shift to digital cinema will mean clearer pictures, more 3-D offerings, movie houses that can easily add to the number of theaters showing popular films and event programs such as sports and concerts.
For theater owners, it means lower costs because prints will be eliminated. It also creates a new marketing hook to get people into the seats.
With incentives like that, the movie industry's transformation from prints to digital projectors logically should take place sooner, not later. But for nearly a decade it has been hampered by the high cost to convert and disputes over how studios and exhibitors will foot the bill.
Finally, however, digital cinema is slowly gaining traction despite holdouts such as Campbell. About 4,000 of the world's roughly 150,000 screens are digitally equipped compared with 1,700 a year ago, according to Texas Instruments Inc., which licenses the leading digital cinema technology.
By year-end the chip company expects the count to reach 7,000, with the majority of those conversions in the U.S., which has about 38,000 screens overall.
After moving at a snail's pace, the transition has taken on a new urgency as theater owners compete with increasingly sophisticated home entertainment systems and other diversions such as video games and the Internet. Digital cinema was front and center at the recent ShoWest industry conference for exhibitors in Las Vegas, with much of the discussion about the $100,000 cost per screen.
If the switch takes an exceptionally long time, "I believe there will not be a cinema business here anymore," said Drew Kaza, an executive vice president at British theater chain Odeon Cinemas Ltd., addressing attendees at the conference. "We've got to get real about this."
But digital boosters say the industry is finally getting serious about the conversion.
"There is typically a love-hate relationship between studios and exhibitors, but this time they're working together to make sure it happens," said Shea Wallon, vice president of the sports and entertainment group at GE Commercial Finance, a backer of digital cinema.
GE Commercial last year provided a $217-million credit line for Christie Digital Systems Inc. and Access Integrated Technologies Inc., which are rapidly installing their projectors and servers in theaters.
Hollywood and theater owners see huge potential benefits.
Studios eventually could save a total of $1 billion a year in distribution costs. Producing and shipping 35-millimeter films costs roughly $1,200 per print, but sending digital files or satellite transmissions can slash that expense by 90%, according to industry estimates.
For now the savings are theoretical as studios make a long-term bet on the benefits of digital. They are subsidizing the installation of digital systems at U.S. theater chains by paying "virtual print fees" to the manufacturers, and they still must make thousands of film prints.
Cheaper distribution could enable smaller films to be screened more widely, said John Fithian, president of the National Assn. of Theatre Owners. The high cost of distribution is a major impediment to independent films, he said.
Helping give the conversion a boost is the resurgence of 3-D films, which today are shown predominantly in digitally equipped theaters. In its opening weekend, Walt Disney Co.'s animated "Meet the Robinsons" grossed an average of $12,200 per theater at the almost 600 digital theaters showing it in 3-D — more than double the average gross at regular theaters. Some theaters were able to hike ticket prices 20%.
Directors Robert Zemeckis and James Cameron are making big-budget 3-D movies. DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. said its whole slate would be shot in that format starting in 2009.
Beyond 3-D, programming flexibility is one of the biggest appeals of digitally equipped theaters. Alternative entertainment such as sporting events could be shown during the day or on nights when moviegoing is light.
Cineplex Entertainment, Canada's largest theater chain, has been screening "WrestleMania" matches for several years. Recently it added hockey games, rock concerts and simulcasts of New York's Metropolitan Opera.
The opera has been shown on as many as four multiplex screens at a time to accommodate matinee crowds, said spokeswoman Pat Marshall, adding that it brings in a new demographic.
Ultimately, theater owners see their multiplexes thriving as broadly defined entertainment destinations.
"The world is getting so competitive," said Michael Whalen, president of Muvico Theaters, which is installing Sony Electronics' "4K" digital system at its new Chicago multiplex. He said cinemas needed to improve the moviegoing experience amid competition from better home-entertainment systems and shorter time spans between a film's theatrical release and its DVD debut.
Whalen dreams of packed houses for events such as NBA games or the Super Bowl in 3-D.
Technological issues remain formidable, however.
For now, loading or moving a digital movie can take hours because of the massive file size, said Michael Karagosian, a consultant to the theater industry. A 35-millimeter film print, by contrast, can be moved in 15 minutes. In addition, converting older, smaller systems to digital remains a problem.
Ultimately, the hope is that a multiplex will be able to move a surprise hit to its biggest auditorium, or demote a flop to the smallest, almost instantly with just a few keyboard strokes.
Studios gush about how crisp and pristine a digital movie remains even after hundreds of screenings, but not every filmmaker is sold on its superiority.
Paramount Pictures has released digital versions of almost every movie since last summer's "Mission: Impossible III," said Mark Christiansen, vice president of operations at the studio.
But when it screened Clint Eastwood's World War II drama "Flags of Our Fathers" digitally before last fall's release, the director and his team balked.
"They just didn't think it gave the same visceral feeling," Christiansen said. "We're always going to listen to the filmmakers."
Despite the uncertainties, manufacturers and theater owners expect the digital deployment to accelerate further in 2008 and 2009. The majority of the world's screens will be digital within five years, Texas Instruments predicts.
"The good news is, the momentum is there," theater industry consultant Karagosian said. "Five years ago, I couldn't say that."
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-18-2007, 10:18 AM:
I know Bill Campbell. What he's really saying is, "how can I possibly afford to switch with no help from the studios?" Because that's how it's starting to look for the small towns. NATO's lawyers should be keeping an eye on this aspect of the conversion, if their talk about representing ALL exhibitors, large and small, is true.
Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 04-18-2007, 10:55 AM:
Right on, Mike!
They should, but they probably will not. It's not just the small folks who are getting short-changed. At our independent complex, redoing 13 screens at $100,000 per is out of the question. And yet, what happens when the big guys in our area go digital? Will we be able to hang in?
Our presentation is top-notch. We would be spending 1.3 mil to duplicate quality. INSANE!
Glad I'm not an owner.
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 04-23-2007, 01:54 AM:
Los Angeles Times article
quote:
Coming at you: Dueling 3-D films
Fox and DreamWorks fight over a 2009 release date. Theaters are caught in middle.
By Lorenza Muñoz, Times Staff Writer
April 20, 2007 -- Los Angeles Times
Movie theaters typically love having two big-budget movies butting heads on a holiday weekend because that will keep cash registers whirring at cinema complexes.
But an abundance of riches has put theaters in a bind for Memorial Day 2009.
Both 20th Century Fox and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. have chosen that date to release what each hopes will be its first 3-D blockbuster. DreamWorks' "Monsters vs. Aliens" will be up against a potentially scarier creature: "Avatar," a science-fiction thriller from James Cameron, the director of Hollywood's biggest blockbuster, "Titanic."
The nation's largest exhibitors, however, say they won't have room for both. As many as 5,000 screens are expected to be equipped to show 3-D movies by 2009, up from 700 today. But DreamWorks and Fox each want all of them. DreamWorks Animation Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg, who has been campaigning to get theater operators to accelerate the conversion to 3-D, has told people that he needs 6,000 screens for "Monsters vs. Aliens."
"I would not want to be put in the position of choosing one over the other," said Mike Campbell, CEO of Regal Entertainment Group, the nation's largest theater chain. "I want both — just not on the same day."
But Campbell is confident that one of the studios will change its date over the next two years. "It's too early in the game to start panicking," he said. "If we are sitting here in March 2009 having this same conversation, I will be much more concerned. I think it will all get worked out."
Movie studios are increasingly planting their flags further ahead in time to secure the most desirable weekends. That's partly because of the high stakes: Production and marketing costs for the average movie now top $100 million. A movie's opening weekend can account for as much as one-fourth of the box-office take domestically. And Memorial Day traditionally kicks off the lucrative summer season.
But a head-to-head battle could leave both movies with fewer box-office receipts.
"These two pictures will have a tremendous demand," said Michael Patrick, chief executive of Carmike Cinemas Inc., who expects each of his 307 theater complexes to have at least two 3-D-capable screens by 2008. "We will want to play three screens of one movie in each complex. If we need to, you could play both of them, but you would never get as large a gross."
Neither DreamWorks nor Fox would comment, but people close to each studio doubt that each would back away from the date anytime soon.
Katzenberg has been trying to convince theater owners that 3-D technology is a way to grow attendance and keep young audiences weaned on video games interested. When he announced in March that DreamWorks movies would be made only in 3-D, he proclaimed that the technology was the "greatest opportunity for movies … to come along in 30 years."
To push his cause, Katzenberg has visited executives of the country's largest movie theater chains, including Regal and Carmike. DreamWorks, however, has yet to release details about "Monsters vs. Aliens" to whet their appetites.
Today's 3-D technology is light-years ahead of the 1950s, when viewers donned green and red glasses. Exhibitors must shell out $30,000 to $50,000 per screen for new equipment such as digital projectors with 3-D capability and special reflective silver screens. Images are crisper and more lifelike.
DreamWorks chose Memorial Day 2009 first, and movie executives said Katzenberg had little incentive to back away from the date because the dueling 3-D movies would keep the pressure on theaters to continue upgrading with new technology.
Yet few in Hollywood would relish going up against Cameron.
His "Titanic" is the highest-grossing picture ever, having brought in $1.9 billion in worldwide ticket sales and 11 Oscars including best picture. In addition, Cameron has carved out an audience because of his reputation as a technology pioneer. Many in the industry expect "Avatar" to break new ground, just as Cameron's 1991 blockbuster, "Terminator 2: Judgment Day," set a standard in special effects.
With an initial budget of $195 million, "Avatar" is set in a world where an alien race with its own language and culture battles human beings. For years, Cameron has been working on developing the technology for this feature while filming documentaries such as the 3-D documentary "Ghosts of the Abyss."
Cameron was unavailable for comment.
Some exhibitors are waiting before they make a commitment to see how some 3-D pictures perform, such as Walt Disney Co.'s "Meet the Robinsons" and Paramount Pictures' upcoming "Beowulf." "Meet the Robinsons" has not been a barnburner, grossing $110 million worldwide since its March 30 release.
Industry executives say supply will create demand. "The more content that is produced for this platform, the broader the marketplace is going to get," said Michael V. Lewis, chief executive of Real D, which has equipped the nation's theaters with the technology.
Jon Landau, head of Cameron's production company, Lightstorm Entertainment, said the movies would be there. "Three-D drives consumers who may not come to the movies normally," he said, noting that "Avatar" also would be released in 2-D. "They suddenly have a reason to go because they can't get it at home."
Most theater owners agree. "We intend to play a very aggressive role in 3-D," said Thomas Stephenson, CEO of theater chain Rave Motion Pictures, which operates 450 screens across the Midwest and Southeast. "It will permeate the whole entertainment environment."
But Regal's Campbell said exhibitors also should proceed with some caution.
"It's a chicken-and-egg situation," he said. "We want to see more product available before we make the [larger] investment in the technology."
Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 04-23-2007, 06:05 AM:
quote:
Today's 3-D technology is light-years ahead of the 1950s, when viewers donned green and red glasses.
Once again, the old myth is perpetuated...
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-23-2007, 09:50 AM:
quote:
Exhibitors must shell out $30,000 to $50,000 per screen for new equipment such as digital projectors with 3-D capability and special reflective silver screens. Images are crisper and more lifelike.
Where did they come up with this low figure. Add about $80,000 to $100,000 to that figure if you purchased the equipment outright. Then add $20,000 a year in fees for RealD.
I think Dreamworks/Paramount are idiots. Let Camerons film come out and put a 3-D trailer for Monsters and Aliens on it to advertise it's release and make it a 4th of July release.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-23-2007, 10:25 AM:
I'm really wondering why they have to platform the hell out of a few weeks in summer and neglect so much of the rest of the calendar.
Titanic was a December release, and it made the bulk of its earnings in January-February. One thing that helped the show was a lack of other good movies to see during that typically down period on the calender. The show kept a lot of very good quality screens. I remember it staying on the two THX screens at our local Carmike theater all the way into early April.
The Passion of the Christ was a March release and it hauled in as much money as respectable summer blockbuster, if not even more than most summer movies.
Frankly, months like April and August are very neglected. Lots of studios just roll out dreck they don't think anyone wants to see and get them hustled off to video pretty fast. Many of those shows just need to go straight to video.
I think some studios will eventually start seeing some wisdom in releasing some big event movies earlier in the year and strategically taking advantage of other typically down times during the year. It's already been pushing in that direction for the past decade. Memorial Day weekend used to be the big start date. Then movies like Crimson Tide and Die Hard With A Vengenace opened earlier. Then we've seen superhero movies, like installments of Spiderman open in the first week of May. With a limited number of 3D-equipped digital screens, it's going to be even more critical for movie distributors to think a little more creatively when timing their release plans.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-23-2007, 05:59 PM:
The whole calendar thing is cyclical, just like the biz itself. Every time there is a big hit in a normal "off" month, everyone is shocked and surprised and the industry media says, "This proves that a great movie can work in ANY month."
But, when you have a couple of hundred million dollars at stake, you're going to go for every possible advantage you can, and that means avoiding any month normally perceived as a "down" time.
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 05-22-2007, 05:22 PM:
New York Times article
quote:
May 22, 2007
Top Directors See the Future, and They Say It’s in 3-D
By SHARON WAXMAN
LOS ANGELES, May 21 — If some prominent Hollywood directors and an Irish rock band have their way, moviegoers en masse will soon be heading back to the future, wearing newfangled 3-D glasses.
Last week the next phase in the theatrical viewing experience took a significant leap forward, as Steven Spielberg and Peter Jackson signed on to direct and produce for Paramount’s DreamWorks Studios a trilogy of 3-D movies about the intrepid Belgian comic-book hero Tintin. And on Saturday nearly an hour of footage from the 3-D concert film of the Irish rock band U2 made its debut at the Cannes Film Festival.
As “U2 3D” demonstrates, this is definitely not the 3-D of drive-in memories. The concert film gives the audience the palpable experience of being present, as the camera swivels around Bono’s face, then soars over and down among the 60,000 concertgoers. And though the new version still requires audience members to wear glasses, they are not the old red-and-green variety but sleek black ones.
“This is a different experience; it’s much more voyeuristic,” said Jon Landau, the producer of “Avatar,” James Cameron’s ambitious and expensive movie about a battle between humans and aliens, which is currently being shot in 3-D using a combination of computer animation and motion-capture technology. “The screen has always been an emotional barrier for audiences. Good 3-D makes the screen go away. It disappears, and you’re looking at a window into a world.”
That view, however, isn’t completely clear yet. So far digital projection has been installed in only about 2,300 of the 37,000 theaters in the United States, with 3-D projection in just 700 of those. Theater owners have been slow to upgrade to expensive digital projectors, and it is an open question whether many American moviegoers will pay an extra dollar or two for tickets to 3-D films.
The 3-D film first flourished in the early 1950s, when movies like “Bwana Devil,” “House of Wax” and Disney’s “Melody” introduced audiences to the delights and annoyances of donning special glasses. But because of a combination of technological complexities, eye fatigue and a lack of compelling feature-length movies, many of the 3-D films were horror or soft-core pornography, which kept the filmmaking format on the fringes of the mainstream.
The emergence of Imax and the technological advances of the last few years, however, have piqued the interest of Hollywood’s top directors. Mr. Cameron, who made the 3-D Imax documentary “Ghosts of the Abyss” in 2003, is using motion capture technology and computer graphics to create realistic characters and fantasy worlds for “Avatar.”
Twentieth Century Fox will release that film, with an estimated $200 million cost, in 2009, mainly in 3-D. (Mr. Landau said that Mr. Cameron wore 3-D glasses — the latest have plastic rims — to look at his daily footage.)
Audiences, which have had a taste of the future in 3-D versions of children’s fare like “Monster House” and “Chicken Little,” will get another early blast of the experience in Robert Zemeckis’s adventure-drama “Beowulf,” to be released, wherever possible in 3-D, by Paramount and Warner Brothers in November.
And DreamWorks Animation SKG has announced that all of its future movies will be shot in 3-D, for release beginning in 2009.
“I believe that this is the single greatest opportunity for the moviegoing experience since the advent of color,” Jeffrey Katzenberg, the chief executive of DreamWorks Animation, said in an e-mail message. “It has been more than 60 years since there has been a significant enhancement or innovation to the moviegoing experience.”
He predicted that starting in 2009, “a significant percentage of the big mainstream films will be made and exhibited in this format.”
The widening embrace of 3-D by Hollywood’s leading directors and major studios comes at a critical moment for the movie industry, which faces expanding competition for leisure time from home theaters, the Internet and games. And it also solves, at least temporarily, the continuing pressures from the thriving trade in bootleg movies. A 3-D film cannot be recorded easily from a movie screen because the images are blurry to the naked eye. And so far there is no way to show a movie in 3-D on DVD.
The push to 3-D may also be the impetus needed to spur movie exhibitors to switch from film projectors to digital ones, say industry executives. A digital projector can cost around $100,000, a sum that has proved prohibitive to many exhibitors. Adding the 3-D component, including the silver coating of the screen, costs about $20,000 more, but the added benefit is immediately visible, said Michael V. Lewis, chairman of Real-D, which dominates the 3-D projection business.
There is already evidence of a box office payoff. “Meet the Robinsons,” an animated Disney film, was released in early April in 3,400 theaters, of which 600 (about 18 percent) were equipped with 3-D. The 3-D theaters brought in 30 percent of the box office revenue from the first weekend, according to Disney. And a 3-D version of “Polar Express” from 2004 has been released three years in a row in Imax theaters around the winter holidays, taking in $65 million.
Greg Foster, the chairman and president of Imax Filmed Entertainment, warned that not all films were suited to the format. “Three-D isn’t a panacea — it isn’t a magic pill,” he said. “It’s a spectacular thing if it fits three specific criteria: Does it take you somewhere? Is it made by a visionary filmmaker? And is the concept behind the film organic to 3-D?”
He added: “If you’re going to do 3-D because you need a gimmick to sell tickets, the audience is too smart for that.”
Among films that have not worked well in 3-D were “Chicken Little” and “Ant Bully,” which were also not successful at the box office.
The new projects aim to be more than mere gimmicks. Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Jackson have been working on the “Adventures of Tintin” project for about a year with Mr. Jackson’s special effects company, Weta Digital.
Part of the decision-making process included a week of motion capture work on the “Avatar” set in the Playa Vista section of Los Angeles last November. That visual information was sent to Weta in New Zealand. There it was married to a computer model of Tintin, the young, red-haired Belgian adventurer of comic-book fame, who is wildly popular in Europe though less so in this country. The results persuaded both directors to push forward with the trilogy.
Mr. Jackson is expected to direct the first film, Mr. Spielberg the second, with the director for the third undecided, according to a DreamWorks spokesman. There is as yet no start date for the first project.
Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Jackson both declined to comment for this article. Stacey Snider, the co-chairwoman of DreamWorks, also declined.
Mr. Jackson’s manager, Ken Kamins, said the director had long been fascinated with 3-D but until now had not been swayed by the ability to create a full-length feature experience. “Based on various tests he’s seen, he believes in the future of 3-D,” he said. “This is really starting to create some interesting imagery that gives the filmmaker a lot more creative license to play with.”
To shoot the U2 concert film, the directors Catherine Owens and Mark Pellington placed about a dozen cameras throughout stadiums during the band’s concert tour in Latin America last year, and shot more than 100 hours of footage. The film, co-owned by the band and 3ality Digital, a 3-D movie production company, does not yet have a distributor, but the partners expect the film to reach theaters in the fall.
Sandy Climan, chief executive of 3ality Digital Holdings, said the improved 3-D format would entice moviegoers eager for something new.
Mr. Katzenberg agreed. He predicted that after 2009, “consumers will own their own 3-D glasses in the same way they have sunglasses for going outside.”
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