Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cost & method of digital print delivery

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Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 06-22-2008, 07:51 PM:

From what I can conclude from posts about digital prints, the "print" is physically coming to theatre via a portable hard drive. Is that correct?

How and when is that drive delivered to the theatre and by what courier?
And how and to who is it shipped when the movie run is complete?
And what are the costs of this shipping?

I'm just trying to wrap my brain around all the costs and procedures involved with digital.

If this question has already been answered somewhere, please forgive me and point me to it. I searched but wasn't able to find the answer.

Thanks!

Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 06-22-2008, 08:15 PM:

quote: Tony Ratcliff
the "print" is physically coming to theatre via a portable hard drive. Is that correct?

Yes.

quote: Tony Ratcliff
How and when is that drive delivered to the theatre and by what courier?

Either by Technicolor (using DHL) or Deluxe (using Highway in my area), depending on the film company. They are delivered in a protective case and usually arrive on Tuesdays or Wednesdays.

quote: Tony Ratcliff
And how and to who is it shipped when the movie run is complete?

It goes back to either Technicolor or Deluxe, picked up by the same couriers. I have no clue what happens after that or anything about shipping costs.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-22-2008, 09:03 PM:

Basically everything ships in/out just like it does with 35mm - whatever shipper each distributor uses now does the HD shipping.

AccessIT and Technicolor are doing **some** satellite deliveries, Deluxe is working on their delivery plan - satellite deliveries cost the same as HD delivery.

Costs for all (including satellite) are the same as current print delivery (i.e. if it currently costs you $50 per delivered print you will most likely get charged $50 for a HD delivery).

Currently our HDs come in anytime between Mon and Wed, satellite deliveries are usually started early enough to complete delivery by Mon/Tues so they can dispatch a HD if the download fails.

The biggest question in costs are on the service side - a maintenance contract can get expensive, but it means you don't have to buy any parts if anything goes wrong; not having one means you are on the hook to buy any needed parts. I can say lamps are moderately more expensive.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 06-23-2008, 11:20 AM:

Over in the UK, digital prints are delivered by the same couriers as do the main print delivaries (unless as a late booking requiring priority shipping).

The packaging ranges from a small disk case to the same packaging as upto 8 reels of 35mm.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-23-2008, 02:57 PM:

When I was projecting we were asked to return the portable disks as soon as they had been loaded onto the raid array and the first show completed.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2008, 04:05 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
When I was projecting we were asked to return the portable disks as soon as they had been loaded onto the raid array and the first show completed.

You musta been a single screen loccation. Personaly if the run is more than 1 day I would have refused to return it till the end of he run. RAID arrays also fail... with misreading a data block every so many billions of bits being the most common problem. Then you get a red light on a drive. Failures of hard drives are also no uncommon...Some RAIDS keep on going, but not in all cases.

Mark

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-23-2008, 04:51 PM:

We don't return ours until the run is over, although I hear lately there have been a few requests to have the drives returned after ingestion into the TMS . . . . . our staff currently ignores these requests.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 06-24-2008, 12:53 AM:

Our situation and policy is the same as David's. Drives stay at the theatre until the day after the run is over.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 06-24-2008, 04:53 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
When I was projecting we were asked to return the portable disks as soon as they had been loaded onto the raid array and the first show completed.

I suspect that this is due to the number of disks that Arts Alliance Media have, rather than for safety.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
You musta been a single screen loccation.

The UK Film Council installations are independent from one another, so a site with 2 digital screens will have 2 separate systems. I have not seen instructions for copying between the servers (although I suspect it is possible).

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-26-2008, 12:44 PM:

If you have a setup where you have more than one server, is it possible to ingest the data from a hard drive to more than one server? Is it the unique key that protects the copy or are the HDs individually coded with the key opening the data from only a specific HD?

BTW, what are we calling the HDs with the movie on them? Are we using the "Virtual Print" moniker?

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-26-2008, 01:03 PM:

The HDs are all the same - i.e. the content is the same on all so you can ingest it into multiple servers from 1 HD (or copy into a library storage server and transfer out to multiple screen servers).

The key ("KDM") is what authorizes a given screen server to playback the content - every theatre gets the same content file(s) but unique KDMs are generated for their serial numbered servers.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-26-2008, 02:57 PM:

For a tutorial on some of these issues, it might be worth watching the D-Cinema Training Videos from Pixar's web site. They're vaguely cute/funny and not too long but give you an idea what's going on (right-hand navigation pane).

--jhawk

Posted by Mike Renlund (Member # 4675) on 06-26-2008, 06:56 PM:

We currently use Microspace for the satellite delivery, and have their dishes on all of our locations. Fantastic group to work with. And the cost for a delivery is less than half of a hard drive. I would recommend them to anyone.

We plan on testing Technicolor's and Deluxe's system. We'll see how that goes.

As I get more testing done, I will post here.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-27-2008, 04:10 AM:

These are Pixar's 10 Commandments of "Perfect Projection"

quote:
Do a Run-Through of the Built-Up Print
Confirm that you are running Scope Format (2.39:1)
Confirm Projection Light Level (16fL open gate)
Confirm Sound Level (85dB), Dolby/DTS Faders at 7, SDDS at 0
Fresh Lamp Life (70% of rated life remaining)
Full Framing (no image cut off)
Sharp Focus Across Entire Image
Sharp, Tight Masking That Doesn’t Cut Off Picture
Check and Clean Aperture Plate
Check Cleanliness and Operation of Entire Film Path Fresh Lamp

So do I understant this correctly....they want you get your 16FtL of light on the screen, but then they want you to have a bulb that's been in use for only 30% of it's rated life? In other words, every time you open a feature, your bulb has to be almost new or you're not Perfect Projection*? If that's what they are saying, it's absurd. What difference does it make where in the life of the bulb you're at as long as you are getting your 16FtL on the screen?

Yah, Perfect Projection. These are the people who instead of making sure there were visible frame-lines in two fade-outs (see Wall*E Thread), instead put SPLICE HERE arrows, only they put them one sprocket off. Doh.

* "Perfect Projection" -- Hey, Pixar, nice try....but we call it Film Done Right, thank you very much, and we've been calling it that long before you were even a corporate zygote. And we'll keep calling it that in honor of our friend who coined the phrase.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-27-2008, 05:49 AM:

Maybe they don't want bulbs that flicker?

What about carbon-arc houses? They can't have perfect projection, either?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-27-2008, 06:26 AM:

I dunno Scott...would trim a carbon for a reel that only had 30% of its life left?

I'm sure the studio feels that lamps that are run for too long look worse in other areas...including flicker than a new one or one that has 70% of its life left.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-27-2008, 03:38 PM:

So this 70%-life-left bulb would apply to digital projectors as well, eh? Yah, I am sure exhibitors are going to keep changing their $1800 bulbs for every opening just so they can win a $10 Pixar tee-shirt.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2008, 08:48 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
Yah, I am sure exhibitors are going to keep changing their $1800 bulbs for every opening just so they can win a $10 Pixar tee-shirt.

Boy, I'd like that list of exhibitors paying $1800.00 for lamps... I'll go after their buisness!

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 06-28-2008, 02:37 AM:

Uh-Huh,

Since when did lamps cost 1800 bucks? I should start buying them from my supplier and then marking them up to that price. I'd be able to buy another additional lamp for each one I sold, and pocket the other half!

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-28-2008, 02:46 PM:

When they first came out the CDXL-60 was over $2,000 - and that was my price from my dealer - there were no dealer discounts available (the price is now significantly less)

A lot of people are broadcasting false information that digital bulbs are double the price . . . . . . Does the NEC, Barco or Sony use any special lamps made by the respective manufacturers? (if so how does the pricing stack up compared to "regular" xenon lamps?)

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 06-28-2008, 04:14 PM:

Thanks for all the info.

I was hoping the delivery costs would be less than 35mm.
I guess that was too much to hope for.

Tony

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-28-2008, 05:47 PM:

quote: Tony Ratcliff
I was hoping the delivery costs would be less than 35mm.

In Wyoming the cost IS less.

quote: David Zylstra
Does the NEC, Barco or Sony use any special lamps made by the respective manufacturers? (if so how does the pricing stack up compared to "regular" xenon lamps?)

Nope. In fact everyone around SLC is using regular film type cinema lamps in their Barco's and NEC's. We are using CXL-4200 at one location in a DP-100. The new Christie M prjector will utilize a special 2kw lamp made specifically for the projector.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-28-2008, 08:53 PM:

Bulb pricing varies by who you get them from. Try your local dealer.

I have personally seen more than one customer who was paying over $3K for a CDXL-60. Not any more!. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2008, 10:09 PM:

While $3K is VERY steep for that lamp...the CDXL-60 is not a cheap lamp...it typically prices out higher than regular 7KW lamps!

When pricing lamps however...it is the Cost/hour that should be the driving force...not the cost/lamp.

That said...if any of you all WANT to pay $3K per 6KW lamp...please let me know in a private email and we'll accommodate! [Wink]

Steve

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-28-2008, 10:15 PM:

Regardless of what price the bulbs cost, the fact that Pixar wants you to only use bulbs that are practically new in order for presentation to be "perfect" is ludicrous. If they are THAT concerned, maybe they should supply new bulbs along with the prints and hard drives.

And although their Perfect Projection points are obviously aimed at 35mm booths, what's good for the goose is good for the gander -- the bulbs in digital systems should have the same 70%-life-left requirement if they are going to earn "Perfect Projection" gold stars. Bet Pixar isn't hard-peddling THAT to the exhibitors who have already antied up a gobs of cash for digital equipment.