This is topic Any experience with Qube Cinema equipment? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 12-04-2008, 10:14 PM:
 
It looks like we're going with Qube Cinema for our digital houses. Has anyone here had any experiences with their equipment, for good or ill?
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2008, 10:54 PM:
 
Only one short experience and it wasn't negative... A local Post House has a Qube... It seemed to work well although the incorporation of Embeded Windows XP IMHO isn't a good thing... XP-Pro is only going to be supported through about 2012. I personally reccomend a Linux box instead... Linux is going to be around for a very, very long time to come. So my reccomendations would be either Dolby or Doremi in that order. Also, the expendature of a gob of money like that should be towards a company with prooven longevity itself. Both Dolby and Doremi have that... Prices on Dolby just dropped drasatically... I mean REALLY drastically! We can sell either the Doremi or Dolby for the same price.

Mark
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-2008, 07:49 AM:
 
I heard that Qube has been around along time as a encoding box so they will probably hang in
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 03-10-2009, 11:22 PM:
 
Mark, I appreciate your input, but the decision isn't mine, and since our first three screens of digital are going to be Bollywood-only (at least in the beginning), they have to get a system that will be compatible (although the Qube literature reminds you constantly that they are DCI-compliant).

As for the OS issue, thanks but no thanks. Linux is a hobbyists' toy; I would NEVER use it for a business application.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2009, 11:26 PM:
 
Linux is not a toy ti is actually the core of many business networks as is its sister unix and still OS2 windows is the consumer toy
 
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-11-2009, 01:30 AM:
 
Dolby's show store, Doremi DCP-2000, AccessIT TCC and DTS XD-10's use linux, among many other products in our field.

Why pay licensing fees for an operating system that "is OK" when you can use an OS that is free, stable, and totally open-source. Economically, Linux cannot be beat. That's not to say that it is user-friendly. I've spent a few years trying to learn the ins and outs of linux, and still haven't broke the tip of the iceberg as far as the capabilities. The only thing helping it along are the folks as Redhat and Ubuntu that design GUI's that allow the end user to interact with it like a windows based system. The fact that the QUBE uses XPe is frightening. As Mark says, support for the OS is limited. The core components of linux haven't changed since it's conception. They have been improved and built upon by developers, but the essence stays the same.

I would be surprised to see any device that requires such critical stability try to run on an MS operating system later than MS-DOS. The Christie TPC runs Windows CE and it is sluggish as hell.

Mark, Are you positive that the core of the QUBE server is run on XP? Sometimes the interface is written for a Windows system. The old Doremi DCP-1000 utilized an XP interface, but the system itself still operated under a linux kernel.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2009, 07:08 PM:
 
The one I worked with thats just a block fomr our office is definately XPe. I'm going to see a newer version of the Qube next week so I will report back on what it's running on.

BTW: The original DTS server that was based on a Dell 2950(and which I liked alot) ran on Windows 2003 server. That however is a far more stable Windows environment to be running inside of. It also had a very quick boot up time. I believe DTS made a HUGE mistake by pulling the plug on all that work!

Mark
 
Posted by James B Gardiner (Member # 5151) on 03-13-2009, 06:43 AM:
 
I work with Qube extensively.
They are a reasonable product. I would recommend them.
I am currently working on TMS type functionality with their player.

In terms of Linux and XPe, they are both very reliable operating systems. You should not be questioning either. Both run on millions of embedded devices. XPe is specifically designed to be reliable.

Qube went with Microsoft tech to reduce development costs while implementing a hi-quality product giving you a great product at a very competitive price.

Doremi are a reasonable product NOW, early on it was rubbish.

Dolby are over engineered. Your buying a Ferrari to go down the street, and in the long run, if price is an issue, it will lean more on the pocket. But yes, its probably the best product but your paying for the name.
Personally I do not see any great advantage, and media blocks and how they are developing.. (Ie when considering the new generation) I would not be purchasing the most expensive device when its future is questionable.
Dolby are tying hard. They have basically been turned away by DCI. (Note, Dolby have NOTHING to do with DCI technology, the need for a Dolby logo and the $16,000 licensing just to show it, its OVER. And for the producers, I am very happy. Dolby may have been a rock to the cinema owners, but they abused there monopoly considerably over the years.)
Dolby need to be the dominant player, that is why they are dropping prices. They want to keep the Brand going. Considering the tech they put into their player, they have to charge that much to make it back. But its a lost leader to the need to still be associated with CINEMA. The logo on the back of every DVD and DVD player.. And the licensing they get for this.
Dolby 3D is also my least favourite. Your not only paying for the most expensive 3D system, with nearly the most expensive glasses. With the worst light to screen, meaning you need to purchase the most expensive projector and run it hot in 3D and run it as cold as it can go do 2D. Add the questionable 3D being as popular as Hollywood would like you to believe (Believe history, not what people say). I would much prefer purchase of a duel projector polarizing 3D system. You can move the second projector if 3D fizzes. etc Its a much safer bet and wold cost about the same as a single Dolby 3D setup.

James
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-13-2009, 09:23 AM:
 
quote: James B Gardiner
Dolby are over engineered. Your buying a Ferrari to go down the street, and in the long run, if price is an issue, it will lean more on the pocket.
Hardly! Thay are using a quite old 3-Ware RAID controller and you're limited to a maximum of around 400gb per drive while Doremi's software RAID is far more flexible and has actually been more reliable. You can go to 1TB drives on the Doremi. Many on this site have experienced the Dolby Red drive light comming on and have then had to rebuild the RAID, while this doesn't seem to be a very common occurance on Doremi's. These days I personally find either server more or less as reliable as the other and as far as pricing goes we can sell the Dolby or the Doremi at exactly the same price.

My only objection to Qube/XPe is that Microsoft stops supporting XP in all shapes and forms in 2012. What do you do then if some unknown bug is discovered in your OS? What would you do if DCI decided not to allow Windows based servers? For all things industrial I still prefer Linux and like Tristian I'm not all that savvy with it but they'll be around supporting all forms of it until our "Numbers Run Out".

I completely agree with you on the Dolby 3-D thing!! Right on!

Mark
 
Posted by James B Gardiner (Member # 5151) on 03-13-2009, 10:21 AM:
 
Dolby is over engineered in that.
It used 2 seperate PC's compared to the single PC doing it all for everyone else.
Dolby has a very nice and elegant interface. $$$$$$ to make.
compared to more generic ones you get from other vendors.

Now considering, with Digital we want to turn out the lights and not come back until next week to ingest the new features and other content.. Why would I spend all this money on this extra hardware and interface which, in general, I will never look at?

Over engineered....

Interesting about the Hard drive issue..
The Qube has Raid0+1 Striped and mirrored as so it can rebuild without performance hit. (I'm told. never had it need to rebuild. Or I have never noticed it rebuilding...)
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-13-2009, 06:03 PM:
 
Actually there are advantages in the two piece unit. One can swap out the file storage (Show Store) without having to get new KDM's and also having to let all the distributers know you have a different SN unit and so on. Its a hassle just getting a new unit on line with distribution! Have never had a Show Player die. The Show player (DSP-100) is very definately not a PC... its built much more like an industrial type computer. The (DSS-100) or Show Store does utilize a Super-Micro main board but it's a Xeon server board, not a board one would typically find in a PC. I still won't buy the "over engineered" aspect because there are many points of it that could now be re-engineered. I think it is what it is because it is more flexible in some important aspects and because it can be supported longer. (Dolby claims 15 year minimum.)

Doremi is much the same as they also use a Server board (Intel) but they run the software raid 5 for file storage and they place the OS on an SSD seperate from the RAID.

I'm looking forword to working with the Qube next week!!!

Mark
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 03-14-2009, 07:37 PM:
 
Let me know about your experiences with the Qube, Mark. I'm anxious to learn as much about people's real-life use of the systems as possible.
 
Posted by James B Gardiner (Member # 5151) on 03-15-2009, 08:24 PM:
 
Yes Mark, the general future for a DCI media block is an in-expensive solid state case that has all the security stuff in it. This is, eventually, likely to be a mass market, not so proprietary device as it is now.
Once that is available, ANY PC could drive it. You could get a PC from Dolby, Qube... or really in the future. DELL, HP, IBM. It will become a commodity portion of the projector. And that is what we want as parts etc will be plentiful, cheap and easy to get as its not reliant on any ONE vendor.
This is what you want as a cinema owner.
This is what DCI will go down as the technology DCI uses is NOT proprietary in nature. This was INTENTIONAL, as to avoid the monopolistic tendencies of Cinema in the past.
The industry cannot afford to support such business models any more.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-15-2009, 09:13 PM:
 
I completely agree James! It is the only way to go.

Mark
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-17-2009, 08:52 PM:
 
Ok, My experience with Qube so far this week has been extremely positive. Have gotten to use the newest version of the server and the new remote control is very, very slick. It eliminates the need for keyboard, mouse, and lcd monitor. It functions as a web server so you can log onto it from any PC type computer on your theater's network, or from any internet access point for that matter and operate it through a sort of remote client.

Both Robbie and Rajesh have been extraordinarily helpful as well.

Mark
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 03-18-2009, 02:47 AM:
 
Thanks for reporting, Mark.

Another worthit contender for new installations. I'll make sure I check them out.

These are a bit cheaper than Dolby/Doremi, while those two are almost tied in price, right?

How is the LSM solution with QubeShare?

Also, am I correct all current Dcinema players support dual projection 3D playback or are there some exceptions?

Wish some manufacturer would offer a cheap (it wouldn't cost them more than $200 really) option to add another dual HD-SDI output to their configuration so as to allow true 4:4:4 12bits output for dual-3D setups.

The current limitation of 4:2:2 10 bits doesn't come from the server decoding or encryption capability or any other parameter. It comes exclusively from HD-SDI standard not allowing 48fps at that resolution over one dual-link connection, so it's chopped off into two 4:2:2 10 bits signals and the rest of the info is thrown away.

Since single projectors only have 1 set of (working) dual HD-SDI inputs at a time, nothing can be done about it by adding a second dual HD-SDI output.

But with two projectors setups, you could feed each one of them two HD-SDI cables like it's done for 2D and thus using the full quality the server and projectors are capable of giving without the restriction of a single cable going to each projector.

Hope they had the encryption mess well figured out for these things. [Wink]
 
Posted by James B Gardiner (Member # 5151) on 03-18-2009, 06:46 AM:
 
The Qube comes standard with 2x duel outputs. (so 4 bnc's on the back)
But yes, for DCI, two projectors is an issue as you need to construct 2x Cinelink connections. This is actually not part of the DCI spec, and as such, is a grey area.. Well last time I looked.
I think Qube support it however. Not something I took a lot of notice of at the time.... But looking at the interface, on the setup page, you can specify 2 projectors. Not that I have tried it.. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 03-18-2009, 07:21 AM:
 
That sounds very interesting, James.

If they allow a dual (dual) Cinelink in the specs, that would be a good and "cheap" way to allow for dual 3D as well as for synching-up two screens for the same show (at the same starting time only, of course). Not that it is very useful for this last application, of course, as any projector is bound to have a server and ingesting a film twice and "typing" two KDM's is no big deal.

Hopefully the KDM takes this into account and enables the two cinelinks or somehow two kdm's can be combined and allow for this.

I'm sure it has been worked out, as Imax i.e. uses dual projection for everything, 3D or 2D, 2K or 4K or whatever you throw at it.

Mark has done a dual projection DCI installation. Is is single dual-SDI or dual dual-SDI? Does the owner have to do anything special about it or just telling the distributor the serial numbers of both projectors is enough with a single KDM for the 3D show? Are two KDM's needed? [Confused]
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2009, 09:13 AM:
 
James... Julio...
So far no large format content has been encrypted at the sites we have equipment at. Presently trailers and most cartoons and shorts released theatrically are also not encrypted. If you move the Cinelink cable and HDSDI's over to the another projector and switch the projector IP then it plays back KDM'd content just fine. They also run Hollywood stuff at night at the Zion Canyon site and they try to use both projectors the same amount so as to put an even number of hours on both lamps. So far there has not been a need for 2 KDM's... just one for the server itself(Doremi). Remember... the projector and server are not really talking back and forth regarding decryption... the server merely provides decryption data to the light engine. If you pull the Cinelink it either goes to snow or blanks the imahe... snow being the more common result.

If you open up a KDM sometime you'll only see the S/N of the server being used... there will be nothing at all about the projector itself.

I didn't think to ask Robbie about the LMS situation but perhaps James knows... I was busy taking a DP-100 that had been siting for well over two years from MPEG to JPEG. One interesting thing I ran into is that different servers require different 3-D PCF files. Dolby and Doremi require an MXFI PCF file while Qube requires an XYZ PCF file. We got the system all upgraded and had the Master Image all working just dandy except the colors looked pastel and muted and reds were orange. Oddly whites and blacks were looking good so it gave the image a real strange appearance. We finally realized the 3-D PCF file I had loaded(for Dolby) was not compatible with the Qube Server and we had to get the correct PCF file right from Qube... Rajesh at Qube came to the rescue through e-mail and minutes later I had the correct PCF's loaded and colors are now dead on.

P.S. Another nice feature of the Master Image 3-D unit is that there is really no need to re-shoot the colors for a different MCGD as the filters they use are so neutral that you wouldn't read any differencce in colors... I tried!! With the wheel in place there's just a slight intensity drop in light level vs. with it out.. no color change.

Mark
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 03-18-2009, 10:40 AM:
 
Interesting that they only authorize a server for playback and distributors need not know about the projector being used.

Being as control freaks as they are, I thought they tied the KDM to both, the server and the projector being used.

Do any/most servers have dual LAN connections for cinelink handshakes/encryption key change messages/etc?

If they have dual-dual HD-SDI as the Qube, then it "must" be able to do this as well or otherwise it would be worthless to have them for DCI applications.

Stacked projection applications have uses other than 3D, such as light doubling for drive-ins, etc, like Imax does.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2009, 11:08 AM:
 
No, never had to give the s/n of any projector to distribution .. Just the servers s/n.
Mark
 
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-18-2009, 02:14 PM:
 
Since Qube was designed by Real Image of Chennai, India they probably factored doing stacked display in the many large cinemas in their market....
 
Posted by James B Gardiner (Member # 5151) on 03-22-2009, 04:59 AM:
 
OK,
DCI security, a quick lesson.

The KDM lets a player decrypt the J2C MXF stream. It is then uncompressed on memory. This is the main reason the secure media block needs all this fips compliance etc. Then the secure media block sets up a secure connection to the projector, shares keys over this secure connection, then encrypts the content AGAIN before sending it to the projector. This has to be the case as the Projector does not decode j2c..
SO, technically, having 2 projectors should not be that difficult at all. You just set up 2 separate Cinelink connections.
The DCI spec may not mention/support it, and in some ways, there is invested interests in pressing this point and forcing people to use licensed and expensive single projector technologies.
Personally I feel this will fall away as 3D is no where near the penetration the Studios wanted/need.. so to hell with those who are trying to maximise profits. The Studios need to make this work, and these leaches depend on the studios, no mater if they get a rich, or simply stay afloat.
I feel the pressure for duel projector 3D will be a pressing point at Showest. For some exhibitors it makes a lot of sense. If you are at show west, make sure you make a point of this.

More on this. RealD's new extra bright system, for example, like the sony system, splits the output into 2. This brings up alignment issues similar to 2 projectors. Ie a major technical reason they watered down duel projectors. I hear up to 2 pixel error is acceptable with the duel output RealD specs. Show you how technical issues are used like statistics. To mean whatever the vendor wants it to mean.

Now, in terms of KDM key chains. (Ie projector and player keys) This is not yet supported, but will be soon from what I hear.
Just quickly, in a KDM, according to the spec, you can make them with a keychain (I think it is called), ie This player with this projector. etc. This was part of the spec, but due to real life issues, etc, the spec is being revised to support a facility key. Having all the possible key chain combinations in a KDM was not well thought out... The Facility key will fix this. So expect it sooner or later. But is real terms, as a exhibitor, if keeping your public key info up to date with the key management people, you will not even notice any of this happening.
Projectors do have public keys that you should be supplying to your key management service. If they have not asked for them. Bad DCI citizen...

I leave for Showest in 2 days. (So do not expect to see me on here much for a while)
See you there.
James
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-22-2009, 09:06 AM:
 
What? You don't have a laptop to keep in touch???? Come on now! Then we must also assume that you are rowing a boat to Las Vegas from Austrailia... Anyway... you can use mine while you're there to check in if necessary... Gord has done this before...

FYI: All of the studios DO BACK dual prujector 3-D. The only studio with 23 pages of stipulations is Disney. You'd be very amazed at the number of dual projector 3-D systems that exist here in the states. The other studios fully support it no questions asked.

I have another dual 3-D system going in very soon... to replace dual 15/70 Iwerks projectors.

Mark
 
Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 03-22-2009, 01:24 PM:
 
Mark,
Pete and I were sorry we didnt get to see more of you while you were here in Seattle. I have two of your intermittant sprokets in my Norelcos at the Guild 45th. Maybe next time.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-22-2009, 05:39 PM:
 
Hi Brian,

Yes... time was short to say the least. Pete gave me your number and also wanted to show me the ins and outs of the Sonys down the street... Definately next time for sure.
Hopefully there will soon be more Master Image Systems in your area. For 3-D it's pretty hard to beat.
Mark
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 03-27-2009, 01:19 PM:
 
Mark, thanks for the update on your experiences. The electricians came in yesterday to install the power connections for the digital projectors; hopefully, it won't be long now...
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 07-20-2009, 11:36 PM:
 
Well, our XP-D server boxes are here. Now that they've laid out actual cash, it shouldn't be long, now...
 
Posted by Laurie Higgins (Member # 4843) on 07-28-2009, 02:06 PM:
 
Geena, they guys are delivering the projectors as I type. [Razz]
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 07-28-2009, 07:02 PM:
 
Too bad they're DP-1200 (Barco's bottom of the line).

And I'm deathly afraid they're gonna not install the ACS-2048 (alternative content switcher) unit with them.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-29-2009, 07:40 AM:
 
Geena,

Projectors are sized according to the size of the screen they are going onto. So these Barcos must be going onto relatively smallish screens. I agree however, they could have picked a better projector(brand). Good luck with them!

Mark
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 07-29-2009, 05:58 PM:
 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Geena,

Projectors are sized according to the size of the screen they are going onto. So these Barcos must be going onto relatively smallish screens. I agree however, they could have picked a better projector(brand). Good luck with them!

Mark
Interesting statement! Can you give some insight as to why the Barco 1200 is inferior to other brands of the same line such as the Christie M? How many Barco 1200's have you installed and been disappointed with?
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-29-2009, 10:48 PM:
 
Well, certainly the Christie M is a far better choice, has a better optical system, and it'll light up a 20 foot wide matte white screen to 21 fl with an XBO1600HS regular ole cinema lamp. Show me a BARCO or NEC that'll do that.

Mark
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 07-30-2009, 07:49 PM:
 
Well Christie film projectors were also renowned for being pretty bright but you won't see me running out to buy them [Wink]

DP1200 will do up to 40ft screens at 14fl w/ 2k lamp so there is a fair bit of headroom. Not sure what it would do on a 20 foot screen with 1.6k lamp so I can't really comment.

It's also worth noting that the newer line of Barco projectors have a very modular design and pretty much every major component can be swapped out in under 20 minutes. Most items can be done by a reasonably cluey projectionist with a little bit of training.

Will be interested to hear your feedback after its installed. Good luck!
 
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 07-30-2009, 11:18 PM:
 
The switcher isn't necessary with the Barco unless you're using multiple devices with it. All you need is a DVI-D output and voila.
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 07-31-2009, 05:04 AM:
 
We had a NEC 1600 with Qube installed last week and I must say at this stage I am quite disappointed with it all.

I was looking forward to this upgrade in particular 3D , so far we have lost 6 shows and have now had to put everything on hold for now as it simply wont work.Back to good ole film. On the opening night the feature kept freezing , the techs looked at it and we managed to get a show up but it wont stay in 3D it keeps switching back to 2D and the picture is flashing color/black and white and the picture wobbles all over the screen.

I am now starting to loose faith in the reliability of this system.
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 07-31-2009, 07:47 AM:
 
What 3D system do you have, Phil? Is it Real-D (traditional), Real-D XL, or any other?

It sounds like perhaps there is a fault with the formatting boards in the projector.

Does it work fine in 2D modes?
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 07-31-2009, 11:00 AM:
 
This is what happens. You should have gone with Barco unlike what Mark says! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-31-2009, 03:54 PM:
 
quote:
This is what happens. You should have gone with Barco unlike what Mark says!
Doesn't matter which one you go weith if it isn't set up properly!!
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-31-2009, 05:50 PM:
 
Mike, All of the DCinema projectors (even the Sony) sport two DVI-D inputs as well as a pair of HDSDI inputs. You will find the DVI ports have a relatively limited resolution set as compared to the ACS-2048. Also, if any image manipulation is required, the DCinema projector is not going to help unless the scan rate is 48Hz or less (in order to use "Cinema Processing").

1024 x 768 8, 10 23 - 85 Hz Non-cinema
1280 x 1024 8, 10 23 - 85 Hz Non-cinema
1400 x 1050 8, 10 23 - 60 Hz Non-cinema
1920 x 1080 8, 10 23 - 48 Hz DLP-cinema
1920 x 1080 8, 10 23 - 62 Hz Non-cinema
2048 x 1080 8, 10 23 - 48 Hz DLP-cinema
2048 x 1080 8, 10 23 - 58 Hz Non-cinema

1920 x 1080 10 23 - 48 Hz DLP Cinema
1920 x 1080 10 23 - 77 Hz Non-cinema
2048 x 1080 10 23 - 48 Hz DLP Cinema
2048 x 1080 10 23 - 72 Hz Non-cinema

Is the typical line up on the DCinema's DVI ports.

Compared to the ACS 2048 (or the CineIPM 2K) which understands most DVI resolutions and more can be added as they come out. The ACS 2048 can also broadcast the EDID of your desired resolution too. Furthermore, the list price on the ACS 2048 is only $4,995...which in the scaler world is a very high bang-for-the-buck unit and the only scaler I know that is HDCP compliant (it re-encodes HDCP). With 64 presets ...any assigned to any input, one can have all of their typical setups at the ready.

Now if all one wants to do is hook up a BluRay (and not worry about scaling Scope up to 2048x858 or 1.85 up to 1998x1080) or is satisfied with the available DVI rates for computers...then yes, no outboard switcher/scaler is needed. Note too, the ACS 2048 does a nifty fade between two inputs (I wish it had two HD/SDI inputs!).

Steve
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 08-01-2009, 01:47 AM:
 
quote: Julio Roberto
What 3D system do you have, Phil? Is it Real-D (traditional), Real-D XL, or any other?
running real D XL and with the XL box not infront of lens the picture is still flashing on and off screen and changing from color to b&W
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 08-01-2009, 03:14 AM:
 
I agree with Mark to a certain extent. You have to anticipate a few installation bugs here and there. The integrator should have sufficient access to spare equipment to swap out the faulty component so the show can go on. (or start to begin with!)

Having to pull the pin entirely is unbelievable. If money hasn't changed hands I know what I would be doing...

For what its worth I'm sure the equipment problems can be sorted easily enough. I'd be more concerned when it gets to the stage when this system is the cornerstone of your business and your cinema technicians just 'pull the plug' cause they can't fix it. Not good enough. If my clients had this problem I would be living, eating and sleeping in the projection room trying to fix the problem with spit, sticks and glue till I got my customer back on the screen. Just walking away is NOT an option.

Who exactly is behind this disaster?
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-01-2009, 06:14 AM:
 
I've heard that in Australia Kodak people who used to install printers were put in installing Barco D-Cinema solutions! If this is the case in your installation the really God help you!
Demetris
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-01-2009, 09:41 AM:
 
Demetrus,

I disagree as these are computer people, not your typical Xerox repair man... after receiving Barco's training they are probably more qualified to install a booth full of D-Cinema gear than most of us here... Have you ever seen some of the high end Kodak printers in action??? They are quite impressive to say the least...

Also note that different manufacturers servers require different color correction files and so on. They don't all run off the same correction files.

Steve,

Christies box will be HDCP compliant later this year and they will also be releasing two more new projectors including a 6000 watt version of the ZX! The TPC software will also become more user friendly... at least for those that think it's already not.

Mark
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 08-01-2009, 09:01 PM:
 
C'mon Mark, one training course doesn't make you a cinema tech!! Sure, a lot of these new 'd cinema' companies that have emerged can install of projector and server but are pretty clueless when it comes to all the other cinema components such as automation, sound systems, speakers, masking systems etc.

Anyway, word around the campfire is that Kodak are going back to servicing xerox machines any day now!! [Wink]

Sure, if Kodak could have dominated the D cinema market then it would be worthwhile for a company of their size. It does seem to appear that they are going to settle for a rather modest size of the pie and the $$ from that probably doesn't justify a company of that size staying in the game supporting these systems for x amount of years.

Then again, I could be talking [bs] ! I have no reliable source as to what they are doing!
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-01-2009, 09:08 PM:
 
quote: Brendan Penny
Sure, a lot of these new 'd cinema' companies that have emerged can install of projector and server but are pretty clueless when it comes to all the other cinema components such as automation, sound systems, speakers, masking systems etc.
The integrators here have hired other qualified techs that can deal with the other things on the list. ONe thing is for sure you are not going to get away fomr the new breed of technician no matter where you go. One thing is for sure... both you and I will be laughing hard when the first board fails in a projector and they try to figure it out with out the usual factory tech support available at the other end of the phone!!!

Mark
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-01-2009, 11:24 PM:
 
Yeah, it is odd that Christie, the first out of the gate with all HDCP compliant projectors is bringing up the rear on the HDCP scaler/switcher. Barco, the first out of the gate with the scaler/switcher, was slow in HDCP compliance and still doesn't have triple-flash on the DP3000...in these 3D times.

The CineIPM will need more than HDCP to catch the ACS 2048 though. It has 12-bit output, the CineIPM is only 8-bit...and then there is the actuall formatting. The ACS2048 can pretty precisely scale the input source to the desired output (keeping aspect ratio and proportions. With Christie's box, it is more judgement call as to when it is right and I think I've run into a processing power limitation on dealing with letterboxed videos.

The ACS2048 is clearly a DCinema specific version of the very successful Folsom ImageProHD...they stripped out a lot of the output stuff since all DCinema projectors have the same inputs and then optimized it for typical inputs. The price is also really good...much cheaper than most alternatives, including Christie.

As for the projector controls...For day to day, they all are okay, really...for set up...Christie's are VERY SLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW. Want to configure a channel...it seems like you've got a bad dial-up connection as it loads the channel configuration. Its faster on the TPC than on the Web interface but still it is too slow. On the CP2000-M, you also have a very sluggish lens controller added into the mix.

Please note, I don't want to seem like I'm picking on Christie...There are things I like and dislike on both Barco and Christie...nobody has a perfect projector (film or digital).

Steve

Steve
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-02-2009, 10:05 AM:
 
quote: Steve Guttag
and still doesn't have triple-flash on the DP3000...in these 3D times.
Actually it does have triple-flash. It just does not support full resolution of the DMD chips. You need to resize the image in the Communicator software and if hopefully your zoom lens is capable of zooming more then you can get away with it. It is not full resolution but it does have triple-flash.
Demetris
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-02-2009, 02:00 PM:
 
Demetrus,

Steve meant to say Full Frame Triple Flash. All projectors manufactured at least by Christie can do this. It wasn't a matter of the DMD chips either... they could already do it. Twas the support chips on the EFIB boards that couldnn't muster up the speed to support the DMD at that speed.

Mark
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-02-2009, 04:00 PM:
 
Thanks Mark...yes that is what I meant. Full rez triple flash.

Steve
 
Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-02-2009, 07:31 PM:
 
The ZX only has had full res. triple flash since around 12/2008.

Hopefully Barco will catch up on the DP 3000 as you need to scale down the pixel count by 34% and then zoom the lens back to full screen size if possible for 1.85.

The light output drops accordingly as well.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-02-2009, 07:53 PM:
 
quote: Steve Guttag
nobody has a perfect projector (film or digital)
Wha??? Even the almighty Kinoton from the German gods, dare you say?
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-02-2009, 10:04 PM:
 
I dare, I dare! So far, there are no exceptions to this rule that I have found. It is just that some get closer than others.

-Steve
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-03-2009, 01:05 AM:
 
quote: Brad Miller
Wha??? Even the almighty Kinoton from the German gods, dare you say?
Does Kinoton use the DP3000 or the DP90 OEM version?
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-03-2009, 12:06 PM:
 
Kinoton were using the DP100 but have recently switched to the DP3000.

The nwe D Cine Communicator software is a lot slicker, and I am told the DP3000 light engine is more optically efficient. I have no A-B data on this, certainly the last one we put in was not struggling for light, initially a 1600w lamp, this will shortly be reduced to 1000w.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 08-05-2009, 05:17 AM:
 
O.k this has really gone off topic a bit but since it was raised!!

Why on earth would anyone buy a Kinoton DCP100 when its just a Barco in a Kinoton lamphouse? Surely it can't be priced reasonably if they have to license the guts of the projector from Barco.

Anyone ever priced these? Would be interested to find the reason why people would buy one.
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 08-05-2009, 09:10 AM:
 
back to my qube issues , we replace the video card in it and now it works just fine 3d and 2d both working fine , guess it was a dud from new.

phil
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-05-2009, 09:30 AM:
 
quote: Brendan Penny
Why on earth would anyone buy a Kinoton DCP100 when its just a Barco in a Kinoton lamphouse?
HA! I posted thst statement a while back and got my ass chewed by several people here... But I'm afraid though that it's still a very valid point!!! I wold just go dorectly to the source myself...

Mark
 
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 08-05-2009, 10:06 AM:
 
Brendan, you'd be surprised on some of these down-the-supply-line deals; they can actually be very competitive.

I saw Qube servers operating again today and had the chance for a much closer look. They certainly have some flexibilities (already mentioned here) and the price seems right, but.......what percentage of marketshare do they have, how solid is their financial footing?

I pose these questions about all the digital hardware suppliers at this time, as in the next few years there will be fallout, mergers and crashes.
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-05-2009, 10:50 AM:
 
Qube has Indian market by far. As far as choosing a Kinoton equivalent I would rather use a manufacturer who knows what film business means rather than the Barco unit. Only the engine and ELCA box is the same. Lamphouse (which in Barco sucks bigtime) lamphouse supply e.t.c are all different. And the constructions seems more robust. Barcos' DP3000 engine seems to output the brightest image today.
Demetris
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-05-2009, 01:30 PM:
 
quote: Demetris Thoupis
Lamphouse (which in Barco sucks bigtime) lamphouse supply e.t.c are all different.
Actually I don't find that it sucks at all. BARCO did make some mistakes with it such as stacking a star washers on each side of the DC connections... they burn up eventually. Other then that problem I have no quams what so ever on any of the BARCO lamphouses. The modular design allows one to have a another ready to go with new lamp installed and it can be installed in less time than you can say Mississippi ten times in a row. As for rectifiers BARCO has used two different IREMs in the DP-100 and I assume they use the same in the rest of the projectors. The first generation IREM is not modular but the second one is making it easier to service. I think you're going to find that all manufacturers have used similar styles of rectifiers although not all made by IREM. T.I. more or less dictates alot of what you have to use in these projectors as far as specs go.

As for the DP-3000 being the most efficient... well... that is very debatable. There was a pretty well known shoot out at Malco Theaters at a location in Tenneese about a year and a half ago and they put all three of the big manufacturers projectors through the paces and as far as light level goes the Christie won by quite a wide margin. There is one less mirror in the light path of the Christie and they have that patented AR coating that none of the other companies have.

Mark
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-05-2009, 02:15 PM:
 
Mark I am saying that their DP3000 "light engine" is the brightest. I never said that Barco DP3000 is the brightest. I have seen the DP3000 light engine in operation in a Cinemeccanica CMC4 projector and I was very impressed by the light output on the screen. Some people who have seen also the Christie and Nec projectors were Wowed as it was extremely bright at this presentation and they did comment about how much brighter in 2D and 3D everything looked. Cinemeccanica uses the Irem magnetic rectifiers and a lamphouse like their console series. Extremely efficient, reliable and bright.
Demetris
 
Posted by Craig Duncanson (Member # 4956) on 08-05-2009, 04:58 PM:
 
I work with Qube too, the only thing I would recommend is to delete ads, trailers, films as soon as you dont need them. As soon as you go to below 25% available space it starts to effect the projector.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 08-06-2009, 03:03 AM:
 
quote: Demetris Thoupis
Cinemeccanica uses the Irem magnetic rectifiers and a lamphouse like their console series
So let me get this straight, they use a Barco engine, Barco driver software, Barco interface panel, and IREM Power Supplies/Igniters. Sooooo what exactly do they do here?? Build the box? (BTW I would be wowed too if I ever saw a bright steady image coming from a Cinemeccanica!)

quote: Phil Blake
back to my qube issues , we replace the video card in it and now it works just fine 3d and 2d both working fine , guess it was a dud from new.
Good to hear Phil. How long were you off air to swap a fault video card?

quote: David Kilderry
Brendan, you'd be surprised on some of these down-the-supply-line deals; they can actually be very competitive
Yes but Kinoton has always been expensive. In most case rightfully so as they make a darn good 35mm projector. I don't see how there is too much money in it for them to license off Barco and then match the very low cost Christie, Barco, and NEC are currently at. I'm sure their projector is probably really good. I just question the economics for them.

quote: David Kilderry
I pose these questions about all the digital hardware suppliers at this time, as in the next few years there will be fallout, mergers and crashes.
Very good point and I'm glad you raised it. Remember a little company called Quvis? They were a pretty big player only a couple of years back. Anyway, you shouldn't be wasting too much time concerning yourself with a few features of a server. The server is the cheaper part of all this D cinema stuff. If you had to replace it a few years down the track it would be annoying but not the end of the world. You should be concerned with the company providing the gear, maintaining, hanging around in the industry, not going bankrupt etc etc. I don't think from an equipment dealer point of view there won't be too much of a fallout from established companies. Its the new ones you need to be careful of!
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-06-2009, 09:04 AM:
 
quote: Demetris Thoupis
Mark I am saying that their DP3000 "light engine" is the brightest.
That statement still doesn't have any real meaning or basis. What was it compared to? How large of lamp was behind it and how large of lamp was behind the others? Were the lenses the same? There are new generation lenses and old generation lenses. And so on and so forth.... When you compare equipment it has to use the same bulb, same lens, same screen, same everything else for there to be any meaning. This is why I always refer to the MALCO test where it was done properly.

Mark
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-06-2009, 12:50 PM:
 
quote:
BTW I would be wowed too if I ever saw a bright steady image coming from a Cinemeccanica!)

That means you have never seen a proper set-up. Poor you.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 08-06-2009, 06:48 PM:
 
quote: Demetris Thoupis
That means you have never seen a proper set-up. Poor you.
I know, poor me. I lose sleep every night knowing that there is some secret button on a vic 5 that makes the picture rock solid. I looked everywhere in the manual and cannot find it. Perhaps you can come down and fix all 300 vic 5's that have the same problem. [Wink]

Maybe Cinemeccanica should build a projector and stuff a Kinoton movement and gate in it. Seems to be the trend now yeah?
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 08-06-2009, 07:24 PM:
 
quote: Brendan Penny
Good to hear Phil. How long were you off air to swap a fault video card?
well it took a week for the support to determine where the fault might be , so we lost a week with 3d , it only took a few minutes to change out the video card.

it is all good now so we we see how it lasts.

as for the vic 5's my 3 put up a good image quite steady , i will admit not as steady as the machines of the past but quite good.

phil
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-07-2009, 12:41 AM:
 
Brendan I send you a PM to not drag the debate in this forum and change the subject.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-07-2009, 08:38 AM:
 
Ohhhh, now Demetrus is trying to avoid the real truth... why not start a seperate thread instead of taking this very relative discussion off site. Phil's problem is solved by the way! And BTW: I don't dislike Cinemecanicca at all... I have great respect for many of theor machines... The Vic-8 would be on my list of greatest machines...

Mark
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 08-07-2009, 10:41 AM:
 
No Mark you got it all wrong. Start a thread and I will continue the debate there but I won't be the one to push into it.
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 08-25-2009, 11:26 PM:
 
quote: Craig Duncanson
I work with Qube too, the only thing I would recommend is to delete ads, trailers, films as soon as you dont need them. As soon as you go to below 25% available space it starts to effect the projector.
What sort of problems have you seen?
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 12-15-2009, 04:12 AM:
 
the Qube strikes again , starting to loose faith in it , after the video card going down in it on the first wee and now just experienced a hard drive failure last weekend , along with freezing and failure to boot up properly it has been causing much grief.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 12-18-2009, 02:50 AM:
 
My rule has never failed. If it's cheap, its most likely [bs] .

With all these canceled sessions you probably could have bought 2 Qube servers by now! Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to get a back-up considering how isolated you are?
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 12-24-2009, 08:34 PM:
 
Phil: Email Richie Terry ( - ) and see if he can't help you, or at least put you in contact with the right people.

[ 12-24-2009, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 12-25-2009, 06:36 PM:
 
thanks Geena ,
i do have a good tech support on the qube , all fixed now and going well , guess i am just disappointed that so many issues have happened to me with a new server in such a short time.

I have since heard the new qube is even worse.Pity the Cinex 20 is only ecinema we have been running those for 2 years without a problem.

phil
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 12-31-2009, 08:06 AM:
 
i spoke too soon [Frown]
after refitting the qube with new hard drives about 3 weeks ago today the server failed me , looks like one of the new drives fell over, having a spare i changed it out but it would not validate the playlist , thinking the playlist may be corrupt i deleted it and tried to re ingest the file however the player will not re ingest either telling me original dci harddrive file is corrupt.

real bad timing , playing avatar 3d to full house holiday crowds now its down .

i guess the other bad thing about the qube is it is not big enough to be a successful boat anchor .
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 12-31-2009, 08:33 AM:
 
Phil are you running it on a UPS or a power surge protector?
Demetris
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-31-2009, 09:07 AM:
 
Did you try rebuilding the array instead of merely replacing the supposed bad drive itself? In most cases the RAID rebuild repairs the bad drive in the array. I have not heard of anyone having this many problems with a Qube (or any server) before...
Also, be sure you're using HDs that are rated for server duty (Enterprise grade)... Regular ole HDs from Wal-Mart or the local computer store may not last very long.

Also, do you have it on a UPS or not? The server and T.I. boards in the projector should be set up on a common UPS to eliminate the need for re-boots caused by power surges. The NEC 1600 has a mod available and can be set up to power the T.I. boards from the same UPS.
Mark
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 12-31-2009, 09:53 AM:
 
Sorry to hear about the problems.

Welcome to the world of perfect digital cinema, I guess.

Hard drive failures, whether they are new drives, old, heavily used or not, on UPS or not, enterprise class or not, are being very common nowadays. For every 10 drives that you buy, it's not unusual to get 1 or 2 to fail miserably w/o warning way before its normal time and few will last more than 5-7 years when you hit a good one. If they don't fail in the first 4 months of use or so, they tend to be good for a 2-4 years, though.

Google, who buys thousands of hard drives every single month and uses them extensively, published a couple of studies on their reliability some time back and basically reached the conclusion that some models were "failures waiting to happen" and that power cycling/usage/heat weren't overly significant factors and age was only significant in that very young drives or very old ones tended to fail more (infancy death or end-of-life wear). The ones in-between stayed mostly trouble free.

I'm just making up the numbers, but it goes something like this:
-A drive less than 4 months old has a 10% chance of failure
-A drive between 4 and 12 months old has a 2% chance.
-A drive between 1 and 3 years old, a 3% chance.
-A drive between 4 and 6 years old, a 4% chance.
-A drive older than 7 years, a 15% chance.

As I said, power/heat and other factors had little effect in the chance of failure (it did have SOME effect, just MUCH smaller than one would be inclined to believe). So a lot of expense in power conditioners and air conditioners/ventilation made VERY little difference. Sometimes, it was WORSE.

Choosing the right drive, though, is a total hit-and-miss. By the time a hard drive has been sufficient time in the market (say 1-2 years) to figure if it is a "good drive" or one with a high rate of failure, it has already been replaced by the next model/revision and it's no longer manufactured.

quote:
Google studied a hundred thousand SATA and PATA drives with between 80 and 400GB storage and 5400 to 7200rpm, and while unfortunately they didn't call out specific brands or models that had high failure rates, they did find a few interesting patterns in failing hard drives. One of those we thought was most intriguing was that drives often needed replacement for issues that SMART drive status polling didn't or couldn't determine, and 56% of failed drives did not raise any significant SMART flags (and that's interesting, of course, because SMART exists solely to survey hard drive health); other notable patterns showed that failure rates are indeed definitely correlated to drive manufacturer, model, and age; failure rates did not correspond to drive usage except in very young and old drives (i.e. heavy data "grinding" is not a significant factor in failure); and there is less correlation between drive temperature and failure rates than might have been expected, and drives that are cooled excessively actually fail more often than those running a little hot.
Storagereview.com also conducted reliability surveys for many models for many years. All findings lead to the same conclusion: some drives models, from all manufacturers, turn out to be lemons with much higher failure rates. Hard drive infancy is a factor in high failure rate. SMART monitoring is not as effective as it should. Very old drives (say 6-8 years old) also fail more (duh!). If you find a drive model that has a low failure rate (say under 1%) after two years, buy all the ones you can [Wink]
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-01-2010, 07:29 AM:
 
Yes we do run the qube off a UPS and a very high quality one.

When the original hard drive failed we replaced all 4 hard drives with larger 750gb ones supplied by the qube dealer , they included a spare which was the one i changed out.

In the bios menu i rebuilt the array and after rebooting the bios message stated all drives to be ok. which did not explain the qubes failure to validate playlist or failure to ingest.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2010, 09:05 AM:
 
You may have hit the nail on the head when you said that all 4 drives were replaced at the same time. You may have gotten drives that are prone to failure, from a bad batch, etc. Generally you don't want all the drives with similar date codes on them so they can all be linked to a certain batch failure. Same model is fine but different manufacturing dates is preferred. Otherwise IMHO you have a lemmon and the local Qube dealer or Qube themselves should exchange it for you with another unit.

Mark
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-01-2010, 09:53 PM:
 
you may be right there Mark, Qube are looking into the corrupted software. in the meantime we have had another hardrive fail , it may be a crook batch.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-02-2010, 10:19 AM:
 
Thats got to be it Phil... Look at the date codes on the drives... I bet they are all the same or very close.
 
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-02-2010, 10:24 AM:
 
Are the failing drives Seagate ES.2 models?
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-03-2010, 12:40 AM:
 
They are Seagates not sure of the models will check it out.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-04-2010, 05:55 PM:
 
quote: Phil Blake
When the original hard drive failed we replaced all 4 hard drives with larger 750gb ones supplied by the qube dealer , they included a spare which was the one i changed out.
In the training that I did, I was told that you CAN install larger hard drives at will but was not recommended and was at your own risk. Would recommend you just install the same model/size drives that Qube ships their servers with.

This of course could be a load of [bs] but if you don't really need the extra storage space then why risk it?? Not all dealers do everything strictly by the manufacturing book. (not always a bad thing!!!)

I agree its a lemon and not worth risking anymore cancellations. I'm sure the manufacturer would have no issues just sending a new one.

If it does it again, insert a windows xp install cd, reboot the server, load xp, and use the system to check your e-mail [beer]
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-04-2010, 09:51 PM:
 
Failing drives are Seagate Barracuda ES 750Gb ..... is this not good [Confused]
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-05-2010, 12:44 AM:
 
Mate, don't know. What drives were installed when the unit was new?
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-07-2010, 01:57 AM:
 
The qube dies again today yet another hardive failing.

the original drives were Seagate ES.2 models 500gb , replaced with seagate 750gbs sent from qube distributor.
with no spare drives on hand i refitted 2 of the old 500gb drives and reconfig the raid over 2 drives and reinjested the show.
it injested ok and is playing ok at the moment i do have 35mm running alongside incase.

the qube people wondering if i have a faulty main board or sata cables.

and on it goes ..................
 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 01-07-2010, 04:31 AM:
 
Or your power supply simply is caput and sends sparks when starting up the server.
Demetris
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-07-2010, 05:21 AM:
 
no power supply is all good checked that out first.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-07-2010, 09:47 AM:
 
I think it's high time you just insist on a replacement unit fomr them. I don't think they would argue with you...
 
Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 01-07-2010, 10:52 AM:
 
Phil, who's providing support locally for this? Sounds like you're getting stuffed around a fair bit, I'd insist on a complete change out of the unit and be done with it.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-07-2010, 06:28 PM:
 
Go on Phil. Just drop the same of your support dealer and I guarantee that you will have a replacement within 24hrs [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 01-07-2010, 08:32 PM:
 
It's not gonna be hard to work out. It's really going to be one of only a few people, I never asked Phil to say it publicly.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-07-2010, 10:37 PM:
 
Yeah I know I don't expect him to. Just playing. [Wink] Bagging out whoever sold it to him certainly won't help in getting it fixed that's for sure.

I'm still thinking those larger drives are the root of this problem...
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-09-2010, 05:51 AM:
 
well i have discovered that you can still run a qube with only 2 hard drives in it. only loaded Avatar back into it, and set up playlist with just feature only . we had put up 4 shows so far without a problem.

meanwhile after a few calls we have been successful in requesting a new replacement . it is now on its way ... hoping this will put an end to my problems.
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 01-13-2010, 02:04 PM:
 
We received a hardware upgrade from Qube last week; the primary thing it does is set the RAID status in hardware, instead of software. It also (theoretically) allows you to migrate ingested material between servers, and has some refinements on the web interface.

They say they're gonna do this for everyone, Phil. We got bumped to the front of the line because we were having an unexplained automation problem; maybe if you call your Qube rep, you can get put on the fast track.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-14-2010, 02:43 AM:
 
Wow, glad to see they got their priorities right. Phil's dropping sessions every other day but god forbid there is an automation problem! [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-14-2010, 03:15 AM:
 
well they sent me a new qube all the way from India arrived yesterday.

new model quite different from my existing on. fans sound like a Boeing 767 on take off run.

tryed to set it up today but is has blocking software preventing me from setting up a local ISP number for my network. waiting to get that sorted so we can carry out the setup details.
 
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-14-2010, 05:35 PM:
 
How much roughly do you pay for a Qube XP-D?

- Carsten
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-14-2010, 11:06 PM:
 
quote: Carsten Kurz
How much roughly do you pay for a Qube XP-D?
About 2-3 shows a week seems it seems.
[Wink]
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-15-2010, 12:23 AM:
 
That is correct. It isn't the price that matters, but how much it will cost you.

Should've gone Dolby or Doremi if you wanted uptime! [Wink]
 
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-15-2010, 05:19 PM:
 
Seems so, yes, but:

How much roughly do you pay for a Qube XP-D?

- Carsten
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-16-2010, 01:14 AM:
 
$16,000 AUD for ours.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-19-2010, 12:12 AM:
 
16K...That's interesting. Could have bought a 'brand' for that price. Why did you decide on Qube?
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-19-2010, 04:42 AM:
 
the qube was wrapped up in a package deal with nec 1600 networking gear and pioneer amp for switching audio.

not so sure this was wise , i have had my new replacement qube for nearly a week and still that wont go either, we were unable to obtain sufficient help from qube to assist in removing the disabling on the ip address setup , thus we are unable to assign our ip address to the qube to get it on our vpn.

everything we have tryed to overcome this has failed now i have 2 qubes that are problems.
 
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 01-19-2010, 06:47 PM:
 
O.k Phil I'm going to let you in on something.

There are two different types of techs in cinema now:

IT Techs = I will get around to fixing it. I don't really care if you wait 2 weeks. If you can't get me a VPN connection to do it remotely then bad luck you will just have to wait.

Cinema Techs = Bust arse and do whatever is necessary to get the customer back on screen. One session lost is not good enough. Next flight out type support.

Which one do you have???

BTW Pioneer domestic amp.....Not cool.
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-20-2010, 05:49 AM:
 
the latest on the new qube , we tryed loading new software on it now we have the blue screen of death , and it wont go at all now.

quote: Brendan Penny
BTW Pioneer domestic amp.....Not cool.
i have to disagree on this one the pioneer is doing a great job of switching sound inputs to our DTS via panalogic , no problems with that and on e cinema the optical inputs are really putting out good sound.
 
Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 01-20-2010, 10:15 AM:
 
Brendan - Don't be a smarty-pants. Putting us at the front of the upgrade line was Qube's decision, not ours.

Brad - Unfortunately, in our case, we weren't given any kind of a choice in the matter.

Phil - Assuming the email address in your profile is correct, keep your eyes peeled.
 
Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 01-20-2010, 10:38 AM:
 
Phil, what model is that Pioneer? If it's working out good for you, I'd like to check it out. It could be good for some applications.

Best of luck with your troubles. With all the IT tech support jobs going to India, I'm surprised you can't get someone on the phone to help you fix the installation blues. [Frown]
 
Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 01-22-2010, 05:10 AM:
 
today we had a breakthrough , new software installation on new qube. sorted out settings on the raid config , got rid of blue screen of death , loaded all my DCI content and it tested out on the bench. everything seemed to be ok for launch.

I swapped qubes out of rack and set up for test drive......... booted fine , then it crashed and burnt because it has not any audio hardware installed. tryed all day to get audio from it with no luck , swapped old (lame) qube back into rack for tonights Avatar session then it too fell over with a raid drive failure and will not work either , one consolation , i am lucky to have good old faithful 35mm film print which is what is going to hit the screen tonight. i turned them both off , bought 2 bottles of beer and went home ...............

give me this back any day -
 




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