Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: TI software release v13.02

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Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 12-31-2008, 02:46 PM:

Below is part of the summary notes on the software update. Does anybody know anything about this? I'll I can say is WTF, it's little late to be getting into this.

Summary
Fixed bug when selecting 3D input reference "A = Left, B = Right" versus "A = Right, B = Left" for FFIB based systems.

Fixed bug with restoring 3D Active state after reset/powerup

Support for TI Security Enclosure boards

The ability to enable/disable DLP Cinema(R) 3D functionality by the use of secure keys has been added.

The ability to enable/disable DLP Cinema(R) 3D functionality by the use of secure keys has been added.
Encrypted and digitally signed 3D key packages can be obtained from TI for specific projectors identified by TI serial number.
Keys will enable 3D functionality for a time period agreed upon between the purchaser and TI. After this time period the keys will expire, and 3D functionality will no longer be available until a new key is purchased and installed on the projector.
After upgrading to DLP Cinema(R) Release 13.0, a default grace period of 7 months is granted before the 3D Key expires. Reinstalling DLP Cinema(R) Release 13.0 will NOT extend the default grace period by an additional 7 months.

Dynamic memory has been increased for the processor to eliminate a problem of projector resets during subtitle starts. This change makes DLP Cinema(R) Release 13.0 incompatible with Series-0 interface boards.

[ 01-01-2009, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Chase Taylor ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-31-2008, 05:26 PM:

PLease post ALL SUMMARYS pertaining to softeware upgrades... not just the stuff you're questioning. Highlight or put in bold the stuff you're questioning....

I believe this verision of T.I. will also pertain to running 2-D where the key will also now relate to the projector in order to decrypt the incomming data... which now it really doesn't, it only relates to the server itself. In the end it should make the projector DCI Compliant which gets D-Cinema another step closer to its design goal.

Early BARCO DP-100's will require a new card cage backplane to achieve this... a $5,000.00 modification and many hours of labor to install!

Just wait till you get to T.I. verion 14 where....

1. You'll have to get a KDM from Disney to flush the booth toilet [Wink]

.

2. The bathroom HAS to be equipped with a Disney approved toilet with usb modem and dedicated Pots line so Disney Distribution can flush it directly.

3. Toilet systems will be required to be plumbed with Disney approved pipe work in the correct Magic Kingdom color scheme [Big Grin]

.

Approved toilet paper and roll hanger also required at extra cost... toilet paper rolls must be stamped with Disney approved high resolution photos of Michael Eisner. [thumbsup]

Mark

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-01-2009, 09:26 AM:

Mark. So by the way I read your post this will NOT be something I have to pay TI for.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-01-2009, 09:46 AM:

I dunno...the way I'm reading it...TI is now wanting to collect money on 3D as a separate deal directly with them.

In effect, you bought a projector and, after the fact, TI thinks....hmmmm this 3D thing is a cash-cow...how do WE cut in on it. Disable it after a period of time and charge people to reactivate it. It would be like having to pay Bill Gates every few months for software you already licensed. Depending on the fee, I think TI will find that exhibitors will be more than miffed. At least, with Real-D, there is an actual apparatus you are paying for (and that Real-D has to keep up)...with the projector feature, it is mere software within the projector that you paid quite a tidy sum of money for, already. Furthermore, there definitely has not been full disclosure that the 3D capabilities within these DLP projectors are only activated for a period of time.

Steve

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-01-2009, 11:08 AM:

Specking as a theatre owner with one installed and another one on the way. With the amount of money I've spent on these projectors there better not be anyone out there with their hand out because it will get bitten.

In the mean time 12.0 is working just fine and that is where I will stay until this is clarify.

Chase

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2009, 11:59 AM:

quote: Chase Taylor
In the mean time 12.0 is working just fine and that is where I will stay until this is clarify.

I seriously doubt thats what T.I. is after... the revenues gotten from the 1000 or so world wide installs would cost more to collect than they would net! And there's still stacked to go with and they can't stop you there.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-01-2009, 12:48 PM:

Depending on the license fee, the break-even point could be very far off versus buying a 2nd projector for 3D.

As for TI trying to get money...well...once you upgrade to TI version 13.xx and beyond, and you will have to upgrade eventually as the source files start asking for DRM from the projector...you either pay-up or its 2D for you. There is nothing to stop them...except possibly litigation. Again, if there is not full-disclosure when you buy a projector that a feature will be turned off at a later date...I could definitely see a lawsuit being made.

One constant thread with DCinema is you get to keep paying for it. I suspect though, if TI is planning on a usage license, it will be dropped like DIVX was for the DVDs because nobody likes to have partners that just take money.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2009, 01:03 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Depending on the license fee, the break-even point could be very far off versus buying a 2nd projector for 3D.

Stacked is still "better" in terms of the 3-D itself. So it all depends on the fees and how good of system the exhibitor wants to have in his auditoriums.

I suspect and perhaps more logically that the 3-D vendors(Dolby, Real-D, Etc.) will be the ones that actually get stuck with any fees if there really are any. Not the exhibitor. Keeping in mind that there are more leased systems out there than owned this could make for a very sticky situation and there would actually be lawsuits flying in many directions at the same time... Also, it my cause the contracts of any leased 3-D systems (the majorioty) to be null and void.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-01-2009, 02:57 PM:

I'm not arguing better/worse, Mark...just the $$$$ of it. Two digital projectors cost twice as much as one and one is more money that MOST exhibitors are used to paying for a projector. In terms of service, it is also twice the liability of cost for repairs and twice the chance of a 3D failure. On the upside...for a 2D show...you have more than a spare-tire, you have a spare car.

I like multi-projectors anyway!

Steve

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-03-2009, 11:09 AM:

Who would I contact to find out what the deal really is, so I can quit worrying.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-03-2009, 12:03 PM:

I would just go ahead and worry. . . . . Steve is exactly right! Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-03-2009, 12:47 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Two digital projectors cost twice as much as one

How come somebody hasn't come out with a stacked 3-D dual projector that's all in the same chassis? That way you could have the same power supply, cabinet, cooling system etc. and use some of the same electronical parts.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-03-2009, 02:29 PM:

Sure... Sony has but it costs about the same price of buying 4 new Christie ZX's with lenses and puts out about half the light!

Posted by Mike Renlund (Member # 4675) on 01-05-2009, 02:29 PM:

I understand that TI wants to make money. But this kind of news is like buying a new car, and then 6 months later, finding out that you are going to have to start paying for 2nd gear. What a joke.

[ 01-05-2009, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Mike Renlund ]

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-06-2009, 11:18 AM:

According to Barco this is just more DCI security stuff, and there will not be a fee from TI. You will however have to get the key from TI. I think you will have to upgrade to 2.0 on the Barco side to injest it.

How much is this going to cost in tech labor for theatres with out one on site.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-06-2009, 11:12 PM:

Yes, Just as I predicted in my post above! More DCI bull crap. Just have 2.0 installed on your BARCO when your tech takes the T.I to 13.02... which probably won't be in the next two weeks! Some have told me that they've been charged for new BARCO software... Just part of owning a B ARCo I guess... [Confused]

.

Mark

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-07-2009, 04:53 PM:

You don't get charged for software updates. Mark I'm sure you have a partner zone registration, you just download it from there. That’s just a tech charging for something that they can access for free.

I'm a Barco certified Tech and I will install it next time I have a chance, I will let everyone know if there is any problem.

On another note the Barco 2.0 software will include CLO setting for Flat and Scope 2D and Flat and Scope 3D this something that I have been waiting for, and it will also include automatic lamp XYZ alignment if you have that option installed. Something I think should have been available a long time ago.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-07-2009, 06:14 PM:

quote: Chase Taylor
On another note the Barco 2.0 software will include CLO setting for Flat and Scope 2D and Flat and Scope 3D this something that I have been waiting for, and it will also include automatic lamp XYZ alignment if you have that option installed. Something I think should have been available a long time ago.

I believe you jogged my mind on that... It was the CLO software that was an option they always charged the customer for to the tune of about 2K USD. I guess they now have to include it because Christie does and has from day one. I believe that CLO is also written into DCI Specs.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-08-2009, 05:24 PM:

quote: Chase Taylor
According to Barco this is just more DCI security stuff, and there will not be a fee from TI.

Since I never deemed BARCO to be a reliable source of anything I did some snooping around today regarding this and got it from a very reliable source that T.I. WILL VERY DEFINATELY BE CHARGING for the 3-D KDM's. And a price had not been decided upon as of yet.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-08-2009, 05:37 PM:

It may make sense from their point of view in terms of revenue generation, BUT...it may only serve to stymie take-up of 3-D product.

Key filmmakers and studios currently promoting the format are hardly going to go along with it. Any fee TI charge would have to be realistic, along with the "agreed period of time" the key would remain active.

Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 01-08-2009, 09:27 PM:

Why is everybody putting their hands out for stream revenue money from 3-D?

Dolby: did nothing but market an already existing for many years Infitec 3D solution. Barco had infitec fitted 3D digital projectors for YEARS before Dolby decided to cash-in.

RealD: did nothing but market an already existing for many years solution by Colorlink and previously even marketed and developed by Stereographics (which, like Colorlink, RealD also bought). So we have someone buying someone profiting from someone's product. A few too many intermediaries, if you ask me.

TI: did nothing but put a software lock to a solution developed by .... them. Triple flash DLP projection has been available nearly since its birth.

Soon we'll see Barco/Christie/Nec wanting us to hand over some regular cash for 3D too. Oh, wait, they already do from spare parts and added costs of dual projection or high-wattage lamps sales. At least, their products do get "worn" by using 3D. The others are either intellectual properties hand-me-over-cash (COST of infitec projection filters and RealD zcreens is a couple hundred at most) or not even that (TI's triple flash is but a natural form of their process development).

Makes me homesick of the days when a distributor would release an over/under 3D print and all you had to do was buy or rent an inexpensive 3D adaptor for your 35mm projector and maintain a silver screen. Then you bought the cheapest glasses you could find (or let the distributor pay for them) and re-sell them at a profit. Good old american way. If Hollywood is serious about 3D movies, it's gonna have to start striking over/under prints too, as digital adoption in the US may be going alright lately but in Europe it's a total stand still.

Cinedigm is another one of those intermediaries that expects to profit from "doing nothing" (basically).

Now, all these intermediaries want a couple of cents of each person watching a 3D movie. I guess they figure if 50m people watch Cameron's Avatar 3D and they can make 10 cents out of each one, they'll be happy. Multiply that for a couple of 3D movies a month Hollywood was planning on pushing out ... and there you have it. Easy, constant revenue stream. At almost 0 cost to them.

Sony's solution is starting to sound better and better each time. Hopefully they'll remain in the business of SELLING hardware and keep their hands out of the pocket of whatever profit their hardware may or may not produce (other than the spare parts and upgrades). I'm not taking Columbia in account here [Wink]

As somebody said here, it's like if Boeing started charging Fedex for each package transported using their airplanes. Absurd. Fedex already bought the aircrafts and can use them for whatever they want. Boeing already gets a good on-going profit from selling the machine and the spare parts+repairs.

I think this market needs a new set of small players willing to shake it up. Let's see if the guys at red.com become interested in the exhibition side of hardware sales and produce something reasonable that theaters can actually buy to convert to digital and expect to see a profit from it before filing for chapter 11. 3D included.

Hopefully before 4K (or higher) becomes common in the household and average Joe can get a 4K 3D 70" flat TV for $3k at Sears (couple of years?)

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-40883-97.html

DISCLAIMER: I don't think that 4K home viewing is going to become mainstream in a couple of years ... I'm just saying that the technology to do it and some products capable of doing it are going to be available (many already are) and if there was a market demand for such a thing (i.e. a 4K 70" 3D TV) it could be in the stores before you can say my-christie-2k-lease-is-over. I guess what I try to say is that far-better-than-cinema-digital-quality solutions are not in homes not because they are expensive or non-existant, but because there is no demand for it. Heck, people ain't even buying 5 years old blu-ray technology and are happy with DVDs and HDTV (cable/satellite/internet) quality. And 2K projection for huge 15m screens in cinemas! And at 3.5fl reduced resolution for 3D!!!!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-09-2009, 09:51 AM:

quote: Julio Roberto
Hopefully before 4K (or higher) becomes common in the household and average Joe can get a 4K 3D 70" flat TV for $3k at Sears (couple of years?)

Hopefully in a couple of years Sears will be extinct! I think you'll find it's the last place most folks go to shop. Sears used to be good up into the 60's after which they became more like a K-Mart operation.

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 01-09-2009, 10:38 AM:

Now I'm hearing the 3D manufacturers will be paying this fee. Mark have you heard the same?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-09-2009, 02:24 PM:

Yes! In fact the Christie Tech stopped by the shop today to instruct me on installing the new "M" integrator and he said it's mainly intended for leased systems like Real-D... not necessarily for "owned" systems like Dolby or Master Image that are bought outright. He said those that have owned systems will more than likely be granted a KDM that will allow 3-D operation indefinately although a KDM will still be needed. I am seeing this as a way that if you don't pay your yearly Real-D contract then you don't get a new KDM... a way for Real-D via T.I. to shut your 3-D system down until you pay up.

All in all it's another very good reason to own your 3-D system!

Mark

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 01-19-2009, 05:35 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
not necessarily for "owned" systems like Dolby or Master Image that are bought outright.

I just heard that TIs intent is to license this to any "add-on" 3D system - which includes Dolby, MasterImage and XPanD as well as RealD.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2009, 05:46 PM:

According to the techs at Christie it is meant only to reinforce the "pay your lease" for those that have leased systems. I was told that those that own their systems will be granted a KDM that does not expire. Also, that there will be no charge for the KDM's.

Mark

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 01-19-2009, 06:04 PM:

The explanation to me was the license fee was for "add-on technology providors" and no mention of leased vs owned exemptions - all single projector 3D falls under "add-on".

I'm curious to see how this will affect 3D equipmnet pricing and exhibitor's "willingness" to have another hand in their bank accounts.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2009, 07:11 PM:

Dave,

Someone gave you the wrong info. I'll send you a PM with the guy you need to talk to at Christie.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-05-2009, 06:48 PM:

Latest news is that T.I. has put this on the back burner for at least a year. They got alot of shit from alot of the right people over it.

Mark

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 02-06-2009, 10:19 AM:

So what happens 7 months from now when people that upgraded need a new license?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-06-2009, 03:50 PM:

One would assume the cost of T.I.'s cut ($$$$) will be burried in the cost of each full frame triple flash projector manufactured. Its the only way for them to get a cut and not piss off the entire 3-D world.

Mark