quote:

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DALLAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Texas Instruments (TI) (NYSE: TXN) DLP Cinema® announced plans today to incorporate enhanced 4K technology as an extension of the next generation electronics platform for DLP Cinema projectors. Texas Instruments is recognized as the cinema technology provider offering solutions with low operating costs, and its inclusion of another resolution gives exhibitors worldwide the widest variety of options to fit their needs and screen sizes. TI will continue to innovate on and further the development of its DLP Cinema 2K chips which are indisputably the industry standard with nearly 11,000 installations globally.

Texas Instruments will deliver the enhanced DLP Cinema 4K chip to its licensees, Barco, Christie Digital and NEC, which will extend the breadth of products to exhibitors to over 12 projector models. All projectors with the next generation DLP Cinema electronics platform, regardless of the resolution, will have the leading attributes for which DLP Cinema products are known, including precise DCI compliant colors, superior contrast ratios and light output necessary to illuminate the largest auditoriums. The solutions provide the capability to light up theatre screens as big as 100 feet and 3D screens as big as 75 feet, which has been a challenge for competing technologies.

Cinemark’s chief executive officer Alan Stock said, “Based on our decade of experience with DLP Cinema technology, its unmatched reliability has made it our exclusive platform of choice for 4K deployments. With no limitations on resolution, DLP Cinema allows Cinemark to truly deliver the highest-quality image to our customers.”

“Texas Instruments is proud of its contributions to the cinema industry and is absolutely committed to further innovation through DLP Cinema,” said Kent Novak, senior vice president and general manager of DLP Products. “DLP Cinema remains dedicated to its customers, and through shipping millions of units we are able to provide a significantly lower cost structure in comparison with our competitors.”

Previously announced at ShoWest 2009, the next generation DLP Cinema electronics platform combines the three boards needed to produce images into a single board. The result is a lower cost solution to DLP Cinema’s three OEM licensees. The next generation DLP Cinema platform works seamlessly with over eight server solutions and multiple 3D platforms.

DLP Cinema projection technology is installed in nearly 11,000 screens on every continent except Antarctica. Today there are over 4,300 worldwide screens that offer digital 3D with the use of every pixel array in the frame for the brightest picture unlike other technologies in the industry. Since last year’s introduction, IMAX® digital projection systems powered by DLP Cinema projectors have reached a total of 83 locations worldwide.

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quote:

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Fares said the 4K DLP chip will be the same size as the standard 2K DLP chip already in use, which should make it easier for projector makers to adopt the higher-resolution standard.

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How on earth did they make the leap in technology to 1/2 the scale of everything when all the inside word is they haven't really been doing much R&D.

If it is a 1.2" 4k chip, why wouldn't 2k projectors be able to be retrofitted since the optics would be the same?
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 01:56 AM:
 
Well, it's been known they already had developed the possibility of 3K on the same size.

And several years ago, they hinted they were coming out with even smaller features. Since those "announced products" never made it to market nor anyone ever talked about them again, I personally assumed they had problems with either reliability or yield (cost).

Perhaps I was wrong and they were just witholding it for the right $$$$ application. Or perhaps they DO have some problems (i.e. yield, life expectancy) but they are willing to swallow the extra cost to remain competitive with LCos or upcoming technologies.

Cinemark says they'll buy into it:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005084.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1

quote:

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Texas Instruments has announced that its "next generation technology platform" for digital projection will include a 4K option, providing four times as many pixels as standard 2K projectors, and it has already lined up exhibitor Cinemark to buy its 4K tech.

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I think, after all, we have to be thankful to Sony for (forcing TI to) give us options.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-18-2009, 04:21 AM:
 
Not so much as options, but the needed choice in the matter...

With the "Big Three Lions" moving forward with SONY's 4k systems installs, you know that Ti suddenly has no choice but to get on the 4k bandwagon, or faced getting shoved over the "edge of the earth" into absolute oblivion.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-18-2009, 06:37 AM:
 
Yeah...believe it when you see it. The fact remains, it costs 3 times as much to make DLP imagers as LCoS imagers...if it cost the same for present 2K DLP versus Sony 4K...just how cheap do you think the DLP 4K will be? Something is definitely fishy here.

Steve
 

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Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-18-2009, 08:25 AM:
 
Obsolete 2K welcome to the real world.
 

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Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 06-18-2009, 09:00 AM:
 
In the software business we call this "vaporware;" float a press release when a competitor announces something you don't have to prevent your customers from jumping ship. You'll have your version out "real soon now." I don't see any ship dates, and they got one customer to agree to buy the projectors when they're ready.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 09:07 AM:
 
Well, now that it's "official", in a couple of weeks it will be a good time for dealers to start bugging christie/nec/barco.

If you start getting answers like "we still don't know when it will be out", then you know you have to go to Sony if you want to move to 4K before 8K comes along ...
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-18-2009, 11:50 AM:
 
Christie Announces New 2K & 4K DLP Projectors (Edited so links to official Christie press release)

Christie Introduces New 4K DLP Cinema Product Line for 2010
Industry Leader Supports Exhibitors with Five New 2K & 4K Resolution Projectors

(June 18, 2009) CYPRESS, Calif., BUSINESS WIRE --

Christie, the world leader in digital cinema projection, is pleased to introduce the new Christie Solaria series digital cinema projectors, based on Texas Instruments' (TI) (NYSE: TXN) industry-preferred and proven DLP Cinema technology. The five new products in the series offer a wide range of resolution and brightness levels for exhibitors who require projection from the smallest to the largest screens. The new product line includes the Christie CP2210, Christie CP2220 and the Christie CP2230 all available at 2K and 4K-ready; as well as Christie's premium 4K projectors for screens up to 100 feet: the Christie CP4220 and the Christie CP4230, delivering an unprecedented 30,000 lumens of brightness.

All projectors in the Christie Solaria series utilize Texas Instruments' next generation electronics which are designed to meet the Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) requirements. Each of the five projectors feature a new modular architecture for improved serviceability and ease of maintenance, an optional integrated media block, and incorporate Christie's Brilliant3D technology for the most realistic and brightest 3D presentations. Additionally, due to the ability to deliver higher brightness with lower power lamps, all current and next generation Christie projectors offer up to 25% lower cost of operation than competing technologies.

'The successful implementation of more than 7,000 installations around the world has provided us with a unique wealth of knowledge and experience. We've achieved 99.999% reliability and have presented more than 10 million digital screenings; however, when we look beyond the numbers, our most critical learning has come from our exhibitor partners,' said Jack Kline, president and chief operating officer, Christie Digital Systems USA, Inc.

Kline continued, 'As we move into the second decade of digital cinema projection, we recognize the need for our exhibitor partners to have an even wider choice of projectors to address the dynamic market landscape. Our current product line will continue to meet both exhibition and studios' immediate demand for both 2D and 3D presentations 'and in 2010 and beyond, our Solaria series will meet our customers expanded needs for choice in brightness, resolution and cost of operation. Based on the knowledge gained from our current worldwide installed base, we estimate that 80% of all screens will be 2K and the balance will be 4K for larger screens.'

The Christie CP2210, Christie CP2220 and the Christie CP2230 will be available in the first half of 2010. The Christie CP4220 and CP4230 will be available in the second half of 2010. Exhibitors interested in learning more about Christie's full product line are invited to contact their Christie account manager.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 12:38 PM:
 
That was quick. Kudos to Christie.

I guess I'll wait until next year for the one or two 3D screens I was planning for December. Oh well, no hurry. Hopefully studios will offer real VPF to indies by then and all 10 screens could convert to digital.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-18-2009, 12:45 PM:
 
I'm trying to reconcile this development with Steve's adamant claim that TI has nobody working on DLP. I suppose this could all indeed be vaporware, but damn, Christie would have to be nuts to make this announcement if they don't have something real to deliver.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-18-2009, 12:49 PM:
 
I wonder what Christie's "Brilliant 3D" technology actually is???

Also, the 4k on large screens only doesn't make that much sense to me. The ability of our eyes to resolve is not based on the size of the pixels, it's the angle in our visual field that the pixels fill. You could have a 120 ft wide screen and if you are 250 feet back from it you won't be able to percieve the difference between 2k and 4k. If you have a 12 foot wide screen and sit 5 feet from it then you will be able to see the difference.

The distinction between what auditoriums need 2k vs. 4k should be made based on how many screen heights the front row is from the screen and how often people are sitting that close. If your smallest house is only there to hold films an extra week or two and is never more than 1/2 full and people never really sit up close then 2k will be fine.

The other thing is it creates a marketing conundrum. If you want to market against the home it's a lot easier to say "come to our theatre and experience over 4 times the resolution of HDTV and Blu-ray" vs. saying "come to our theater and if you happen to see a big movie on the opening week you'll experience over 4 times the resolution of HDTV and Blu-Ray.
 

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Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 06-18-2009, 12:55 PM:
 
Although I agree with Steve's "Don't believe it until you see it" statement, It's also well known that technology manufacturers often restrain from announcing their new technology until the last minute to avoid a drop in sales on their current products. TI has done a very good job of denying the existence of a 4K imager as well as plans to develop one.

Theaters who were considering converting to 2K d cinema will now wait for 4K DLP.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-18-2009, 01:00 PM:
 
Cinemark is probably already working on a new Front Row Joe snipe around the theme "We gots 4K and the best part is it's not Sony!"
 

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Posted by Hendarto Ciputra (Member # 4868) on 06-18-2009, 01:02 PM:
 
And barco's also announced their 4K lineup? vaporware

http://www.barco.com/investors/en/Pressreleases/show.asp?index=2348

Cinemark and Barco Sign Exclusive Partnership for the Delivery of Enhanced DLP Cinema® 4K Digital Projection
This partnership continues Barco's position as leader in the Digital Cinema market in the years to come

Rancho Cordova, CA, 18 June 2009 — Digital cinema pioneer Barco is proud to announce that Cinemark Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: CNK), the world's second largest motion picture exhibitor, has entered into an exclusive agreement with Barco. As part of this agreement, Cinemark is also partnering with the DLP Cinema® product group from Texas Instruments (TI) (NYSE: TXN) and media server provider Doremi to secure the industry's best-in-class and brightest digital cinema solution. This group of partners, representing more than 100 years in combined cinema expertise, will employ the full spectrum of Barco's upcoming new family of enhanced DLP Cinema next generation 4K projectors.

Cinemark plans to deploy digital cinema as part of the DCIP initiative. More than 3,000 digital projectors are to be installed in nearly 300 theater sites throughout the US, which include Cinemark's Century, Cine Arts and Tinseltown brands. Every theater will show the industry's biggest and brightest images, projected from Barco DLP powered projectors and driven by Doremi's 4K integrated media block. The agreement also includes plans for Cinemark's international locations in Latin America, which would bring the overall deployment to more than 4,600 screens.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-18-2009, 01:13 PM:
 
And here we go...

Cinemark Plans To Install 4K Digital Cinema Projection Across The Circuit (Official Cinemark press release)

As Part of the DCIP Consortium, Cinemark Will Offer Customers the Biggest and Brightest 4K Digital Projection and 3D Presentation Available

PLANO, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jun. 18, 2009-- Cinemark Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: CNK), the world’s second largest motion picture exhibitor, today announced that it has partnered with digital cinema pioneer Barco, DLP Cinema technology provider Texas Instruments and media server provider Doremi to install the industry’s biggest & brightest 4K digital cinema solution in more than 3,000 screens. The agreement also includes plans for Cinemark’s international locations in Latin America, which would bring the overall deployment to more than 4,600 screens.

“Cinemark selected the DLP Cinema 4K Barco projector and Doremi Cinema Server solution as we believe it is the best in the industry in terms of projection, quality, reliability and value,” states Alan Stock, CEO of Cinemark Holdings, Inc. “Cinemark will continue to offer our customers the best viewing experience available.”

“Barco is honored to be selected as Cinemark’s exclusive digital cinema projection provider,” stated Todd Hoddick, VP for Digital Cinema in North America. “Our goal is to continue providing Cinemark the best viewing experience and customer service possible.”

“We congratulate Cinemark on their choice of a solution set that together will put an amazing picture on thousands of Cinemark screens worldwide,” said Nancy Fares, manager of the DLP Cinema business for Texas Instruments. “The Cinemark decision to use DLP Cinema technology reiterates the fact that exhibitors can have both a brilliant bright picture and a low maintenance solution for screens of any size.”

DCIP was formed in February 2007 as a joint venture owned equally by AMC Entertainment Inc., Cinemark Holdings, Inc. and Regal Entertainment Group for the purpose of financing, procuring and deploying digital projection solutions to movie theatre screens across the United States.

Cinemark’s best-in-class digital solution will be based on the DLP Cinema digital micro-mirror chip that is used in Barco’s new family of enhanced DLP Cinema 4K projectors.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 01:22 PM:
 
Obviously there is a some deal of "vapor" into all this as no 4K product will come until the "second half of 2010".

But the anouncement is meant to stop people from thinking Sony is the right way and keeping the 2K line alive. At a reduced price, I guess, and I hope reduced by a lot but pbbly will only be a token amount, while presenting 4K, which should've been the bare minimun in (serious) Dcinema applications to begin with as a "premium" (read, expensive as hell).

What really needs to happen: stop wasting money marketing and tooling factories for so many projector models. There is the need only of: a cheap 2K for poor theaters with small screens, and 2 models of (affordable) 4K: one for small/medium screens and one for medium/large. Period.

What is going to happen: not that

Another important point: the new projectors will finally be DCI compliant, unlike current ones, which ARE NOT.

The direct consecuence of all these announcements in the past month for me: I was planning on installing one or perhaps two 3D screens by mid-December, pbbly dual-projection. Now will wait until at least May 2010. If by then studios offer serious VPF deals, will pbbly install 2 3D screens plus 8 digital when 4K becomes available. Depending on the prices, at least 2 would be 4K. Ideally, they'll all be 4K if the price is right. Only 1 screen is really ok with a 2K solution (i.e. it's a small screen in a long-ish auditorium with the first row kind of far).

Obviously there is not a direct relationship between the size of the screen and the benefits of 4K resolution against 2K. When saying "2K for a small screen" in reality what I mean is 2K for a budget installation on a small auditorium that seats few patrons, has a small screen and hopefully people are sitting far away from it ....
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-18-2009, 01:28 PM:
 

quote: TI Press Release

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Texas Instruments will deliver the enhanced DLP Cinema 4K chip to its licensees, Barco, Christie Digital and NEC, which will extend the breadth of products to exhibitors to over 12 projector models.

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I, too, am skeptical about this announcement. What are the native resolution specifications of this "4K" chip? Does it have 4096 X 2160 pixels of native resolution? Or is TI just doing something sneaky with a standard 2048 X 1080 chip? They did a lot of wobbulation shenanigans with 960 X 1080 chips in RPTV sets. It wouldn't be surprising to find a similar lack of truth in advertising in this case either.
 

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Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 06-18-2009, 01:28 PM:
 
The key to using vaporware successfully is actually having the ability to deliver on your promises at some time in the future. No manufacturer wants to cannibalize their current sales (TI's 2k imagers, in this case), but they also have to balance that against potential customers going over to Sony. If the risk is between taking no action and going out of business, and announcing early and taking the chance that you won't be able to deliver the product on schedule, the choice is clear.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 01:44 PM:
 
Since 3D is limited by DCI specs to 2K-48fps, I'm not afraid of buying a dual-2K solution for 3D, if the price of 2K is right, even if it sort of sucks when projecting 2D against 4K.

With dual projection (kind of a fixed pixel-shift solution), á lá Imax, at least the screen door is better hidden.

But for 2D applications, I ain't buying squat until I see the specs for the 4K stuff. If it's a wobbulation solution, it better be priced at exactly $100 over 2K and 50% below Lcos 4K, or I'll be running to Sony's or whoever's door. Can't advertise 4K if the imager is 1/4 (or even 1/2) the amount of needed pixels ...
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-18-2009, 02:41 PM:
 
It's either do it or bite the dust... I would think the 3 manufacturers involved probably put T.I. in a vice and clamped it hard till they relented!!! This is the wequivelent to stabbing Sony smack dab in the middle of the heart... I'd say two years off on any production scale though... By then I'll be retired!!!

Mark
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-18-2009, 02:52 PM:
 
So, according to the press release, Cinemark chose to buy a product that does not yet exist because they value its "quality" and "reliability." Huh?!? Either Alan Stock is an idiot, or whoever wrote the press release should be fired. Or both.

In any case, a 4K DLP unit would be most welcome, if and when it becomes available. Good thing most theatres didn't ditch film for the soon-to-be-obsolete 2K units. If distributors will start providing 4K material, this could work out very well for all concerned.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 03:03 PM:
 
The more I read between the lines, the more it looks like a marketing ploy to sell Wobbulation or, Allah forbid, 2 x Wobbulation as 4K.

Oh well. They better reflect it in the price, as the only cost (or difference) between the 2K and this BS "4K" would be a couple of faster (or a couple extra) DSP chips to push the 4K datastream to the DLP's.

If someone could please ask Christie for a straight answer to the number of pixels on each DLP "4K" imager, we could save ourselves weeks/months of speculation.

If their answer is something along the lines of "they are capable of 4K" or ANYTHING other than 4096x2160 ... then you get bet your @ss they are but 2K chips showing different pixels at different times. If they want to pass for "true" 4K, it would have to flash 4 times, which puts the effective frame rate (refresh) at 36hz, too low for serious applications (minimun equivalent to 35mm two-blade shutter: 48hz).

Read: headaches from watching that crap.

Until they mention the true resolution somewhere, my bet is with the cheap way out. Otherwise, they would be boasting about it and pbbly the imagers wouldn't be so freely interchangeable between projectors like they seem to be.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-18-2009, 03:19 PM:
 
The only thing in my mind arguing against it being some kind of wobulation is the light output. Wouldn't you lose light doing wobulation because (I assume) the chip must be dark while the wobulation mirror shifts to the new position?

It would be great if somebody with media access could ask TI or Christie/Barco/NEC directly exactly what the physical specs of the chip are.

My gut (based on comments a couple of years back from a poster on film-tech) is that there is probably wobulation involved.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-18-2009, 05:17 PM:
 
Oh, but the fun!

First we had fake Imax.

Soon, perhaps, we'll also have fake 4K


 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-18-2009, 09:26 PM:
 
I'm trying to look at the bright side. It would be a hell of an engineering achievement to squeeze 8.8 million rapidly spinning mirrors on a small piece of silicon. In that regard I hope TI really delivers the goods.

Unfortunately the term "enhanced DLP" in that press release has me more thrown in the negative direction. The word "enhanced" can be taken any number of ways, including being a slick way of saying the DLP chip is enhanced with some extra wobbulation capabilities so it can try to act like a 4K resolution chip without having all the native pixels to do so.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-18-2009, 10:19 PM:
 
The other thing everyone here has overlooked is the price tag. Sony sells theirs to "any cinema" for 83K... in quantities to the chains as we know for slightly under 60K... now even 2K DLP is going to have to get much much more competitive price wise than the present Sony pricing is to stick around... That 4K DLP projector is going to be a quarter of a million dollar projector at the rate the present pricing is staying... Price DOES MATTER in this industry big time.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-18-2009, 10:47 PM:
 
Thats just it...technology wise...TI is in a pickle. 4K cost 4 times as much to make as 2K. There is no way they can make a 4K imager for the price of a 2K imager and Sony is selling their 4K systems in the same ballpark as TI's 2K. If TI could really reduce the price that much, then they would have put forth the efforts in the consumer world as well as the lower-end A/V and done away with single-chip DLP.

So...if you are buying a DCinema machine today...

Do you buy a 2K DLP when you know that next year (if you believe TI's noise) that 4K will be available? Do you go with Sony's 4K SXRD machine...after all, the "big boys" are going that route...or do you wait?

There is no small coincidence that TI's "announcement" comes on the heels of Sony landing the Regal/AMC deal for about 1/3 of the domestic screens. TI wants to slow the bleed...after all, they don't have to deliver.

The problem is, TI has already lost 1/3 of the US screens, the announcement won't help that. It makes people wary of pursuing the exisiting technology (2K) so sales are likely to go down on those and people will wait for the day that will likely never happen (DLP 4K) or just go for Sony if they need 4K today.

Those that have bought 2K already have a costly update in their future...due out in December, if they plan on DCI compliance (which is actually another 6-month delay as it was due out this Summer, originally).

So when are exhibitors (or deployment agencies) supposed to make money on these things? They cost a lot when you buy them, they cost a lot when you own them...and they can be made obsolete or antiquated rather briskly.

Steve
 

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Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 06-18-2009, 11:58 PM:
 
For many years, since 1K, digital proponents have been claiming that digital is better than film. Their claim is finally correct because the quality of average 35mm film prints is now inferior to 1K digital. It appears that labs are employing dung beetles working with mud to produce release prints with special light-filtering qualities.

I am delighted when I see a good print in our cinema that causes me to cancel orders for new lamphouse and lenses.

Concurrently, the quality of features on hard drives has improved of late so that our 16x9 1.3K dlp projector is producing results superior to the 35mm system.

I am hoping that the introduction of dci stuff is further delayed here so that film companies might re-think the downgrading of 35mm.

For average screens, well set-up e-cinema is fine for flat features, particularly those originating on tape or 16mm. Investing more than $100,000 in a digital projector for these features is like buying a Kenworth to do the shopping. But, until dci stuff is feasible, Scope features should continue to be released on prints which exhibit some of the advances in film technology that have been wrought in the last 50 years.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-19-2009, 12:06 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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There is no way they can make a 4K imager for the price of a 2K imager

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quote: Lyle Romer

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If it is wobulation, they should be able to get a decent frame refresh rate. Home "1080P" wobulation sets with color wheel have to show at least 6 "parts" for each frame (2 wobulation spots and 3 color wheel spots) at 60 fps so the chip has to show 360 fps. Even if they were doing 4x wobulation you would think they can do a 96Hz refresh rate with the right formatter board design.

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Re-doing the math, I end up with 90hz rather than 96hz, but not that important. Of course, in home applications, they are only dealing with a 960x1080 matrix.

My calculations were based on what they currently can do. Just a few short (around 9) months ago, the DCI projectors were incapable of full resolution at 48fps (3D) to triple flash at 144hz. Only recently have they been able to do 1980x1080x48x3.

One must assume that, since their most expensive projectors only recently adquired that possibility, that's probably around their bandwidth limit.

Based on those calculations, I get my figures.

Indeed if they can do 2K at over 144hz at full contrast at TWO different wobbulation angles (2 on each spatial direction), then perhaps they can get over 36hz refreshes.

But that would be only giving some formatting bandwidth we have not yet seen from TI before.

Can they do it? I would guess on theory, perhaps. But I'm not sure a DLP can take much more refresh rate w/o impairing the contrast. Perhaps home applications have a reduced contrast to allow for the 60fps 2xwobbulatedx3colorwheeled applications.

Don't know.
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 06-19-2009, 10:01 AM:
 
With all these announcements, what happens to 2K? How long will the companies support it? Are the 2K folks shit out of luck, so to speak?
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 06-19-2009, 10:16 AM:
 
TI, for whatever reason (pbbly technological walls) "loves" 2K. So as long as they are in business and still offering the product, I say they'll support it.

If TI were to do "the right thing", which is to offer a very cheap 2K small projector for budget applications and then two affordeable 4K projectors for real cinemas (one for small screens, one for large), 2K support could dissapear if there was no demand whatsoever for the 2K and everybody chose 4K over it.

But they are still pushing 2K down the throat even today, announcing a miriad of 2K offers and offering nothing in 4K for a full year and hinting it will be "extra" (=expensive).

I think they are us.

At least now we'll see a ton of 4K DI's for sure, so the 35mm prints will start once again to look good and cinemas with 35mm film will have an advantage over those with 2K ....
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-19-2009, 11:26 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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Thats just it...technology wise...TI is in a pickle. 4K cost 4 times as much to make as 2K. There is no way they can make a 4K imager for the price of a 2K imager and Sony is selling their 4K systems in the same ballpark as TI's 2K.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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spinning DLP mirrors

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quote: Alan Gouger

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The PR will cause some fence sitters which is what TI wants.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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The act of promoting vaporware is a tactic that works. Dolby did much to seal the fate of Cinema Digital Sound with its March 1991 press release about Dolby Digital

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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As far as credibility goes, I'd like to see technical disclosure from Texas Instruments about the native resolution of their enhanced 4K DLP chip. Is it really 4K?

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The way I always go about these type of things is:

-If it was truly 4K, in no more than a few weeks the technical details would certainly be advertised or answered in the press somewhere. Heck, I would personally phone Christie and ask them if I have to. You wouldn't want to have a techonological feat like a 4K DLP chip for (around) the price/size of current 2K system and NOT advertise it left-and-right.

If there is a cloud of "mystery", carefully chosen words (like "effective resolution" or "capable resolution", etc) instead of just plain-old "native resolution", etc .... then, there is something fishy there.

The only valid answer from TI is: what's the pixel count of your 4K chips? Answer: 4096x2160. Any other answer would smell like is going on.

You can claim that your wobbulated 2K chips can put a 4K pixel count on the screen. But it CAN'T put them all at the same time, obviously. And putting 2K and then another 2K and then another 2K and then the last 2K is not the same as putting 4K.

It would be weird if we started a new era of .... INTERLACED! D-Cinema
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-23-2009, 01:04 PM:
 
I emailed TI's DLP group last week with the question "Is it 4K, or is it 2K + Wobulation = 4K?"

Oddly, they have not responded.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-23-2009, 01:17 PM:
 
There are people on the AVS (I think) forum claiming it is a true 4k chip at 1.2" and that the info came from a contact at Barco.

I'd still take it with a grain of salt since it is only a message board post with unnamed sources. One comment in the thread was that it's been in the works for a while.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 06-23-2009, 05:00 PM:
 
I sat next to the TI exec for cinema at the first screening of footage from "Avatar" three hours ago at Cine Expo. FWIW, he says it's is "genuine" 4K and will be done on the 1.2 chip only. As to time to first delivery of chips, I did not ask.

Now as to Bobby's last points. Reciting when AC-2, AC-3, and what date a film released is a simple matter of record and I'll take your word for it as I no longer remember such minutia, claiming to know the motive why Dolby Labs chose a particular date to make an announcement or seeming to claim malice or bad will as a fact on Dolby's part is another.

Did you work for CDS, or someone directly involved with film digital sound? If you do not have direct knowledge of this, you should maybe soften your writing style. If you do, lay it out there.

TI and Dolby Labs have pretty good historical records of backing up their claims in the past and this was my main point.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2009, 05:21 PM:
 
Sam, To ad to the credibility I also remember Ioan Allen stating a date that it would be installed in theaters in large cities for trials and it was something like jsut 6 to 9 months down the road from his Showest speech... I can bet that you installed some of that gear yourself!

quote: David Stambaugh

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I emailed TI's DLP group last week with the question "Is it 4K, or is it 2K + Wobulation = 4K?"

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I thought they might be using spatial shift on the pixels to hide the latticework between the pixels. This is very commonly done in broadcast television cameras to improve resolution... which it does.

I think Sam's post is all I need though. I doubt the TI guy is going to try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. T.I. is a first class corporation and always have produced top notch semiconductors. It's obvious though that even alot of people at T.I. didn't know about this either... may have been why there is just a supposed skelton crew in 2K DLP... they all left and went somewhere else to do 4K to keep it a corporate secret. This is also very common within companies.

ONe thing is for sure... it's going to be dam expensive!!

Mark
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-23-2009, 05:23 PM:
 
Sometimes opinion, conjecture, and historical facts get all twisted up in knots. Only a few current or former Dolby employees know for sure what was going on there in the early days of digital sound. The rest of us are left to guess what occurred.

The more I think about the 4K DLP thing, the more convinced I am that it has to be real 4K. Anything less than that from TI and its partners, especially Christie, would put their system at a severe marketing disadvantage, unless it has some other "hook" that trumps real 4K.

That is my opinion.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2009, 05:26 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

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Anything less than that from TI and its partners, especially Christie, would put their system at a severe marketing disadvantage, unless it has some other "hook" that trumps real 4K.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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The potential $$$ from 4K or anything DLP at this point just don't justify spending penny one.

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quote:

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As for layoffs it just doesn't make sense!

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quote: Eric A. Taub, New York Times

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January 26, 2009, 7:31 pm
Texas Instruments: DLP on the Ropes
By Eric A. Taub

Texas Instruments announced across-the-board losses and employee layoffs on Monday. One of the areas hardest hit was the division that creates the DLP technology used in most rear-projection TVs. Revenue in that group, which also includes calculators and microprocessors, dropped 30 percent and profit dropped 70 percent.

Within the last few months, several DLP division executives, seeing the writing on the wall, have left TI. TI said it would lay off 1,800 people across divisions and accept voluntary retirements from 1,600 more.

Given the state of the rear-projection business, the results are not surprising. The company had already ceded ground to flat-panel TV technology in every size below 55 inches, and with new, more efficient LCD manufacturing facilities opening in about two years, it’s likely that except for the very biggest supersize TVs and front projectors, everyone will be buying a flat TV using either LCD or plasma technology.

The company says it will concentrate on its 3D DLP TV work but the reality is that consumers have shown they prefer thin flat-panel sets, not the more bulky rear projection models that require one to sit just so to see the best picture.

I suspect that in the not-too-distant future, DLP will be little but a memory, a transitional technology that showed early adopters how good an HDTV image could be, and now has become.

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quote: Laura Jane, Engadget

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We love pico projectors, we love phones -- so the combo pack known as the Samsung Show stopped us in our tracks when we first spied it at CES. Well, Texas Instruments, makers of the DLP projector chip that runs the Show, if you will, have just announced the second generation DLP chip which is -- you guessed it -- smaller! The second-gen chip is about 20 percent smaller and thinner in fact, and it boasts the ability to display WVGA resolution (the previous model has HVGA resolution), all while delivering a brighter display! TI's press specifically mentions mobile phones, so don't be surprised if the Show doesn't have a host of competitors to deal with any day now. Texas Instruments is on hand at MWC, and their press conference is tonight, so we'll be watching, magnifying glass in hand, to see what else they have in store for us.

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quote: Ron Curran

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Hey Mark, that complete dci booth for $30K, can we have one tomorrow please?

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quote: Steve Guttag

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Sorry Mark...the numbers just don't add up. Like the Pico projectors...everything DLP had was in the shute already.

Not you or anyone else can show a viable business model for making the DLP chips for DCinema...the market is too small...and to have a high-end version, makes the market that much smaller.

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quote: Darryl Spicer

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I guess one important thing will be related to upgrade ability. Can people who already have 2k installed be able to take their existing equipment and upgrade it to 4k. I would assume one could change out the light engine from 2k to 4k but what else would have to change to accommodate the upgrade.

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quote:

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GDC Technology (“GDC”), a world leading digital cinema solution provider, is pleased to announce that it is developing a 4K Media Block which will be compatible with the new generation of 4K chip being developed by Texas Instruments. The new product will extend the capabilities of GDC’s SA-2100 line of digital cinema servers and is timed to be ready when 4K capable DLP Cinema projectors become available.

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quote:

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Dolby Laboratories, Inc. announced that its newest cinema server, the Dolby Screen Server (DSS200), will be available for orders starting in early July 2009.

The DSS200 is the all-in-one platform to store, decode, and deliver pristine movies to the digital cinema projector. Based on Dolby's proven, existing FIPS-certified media block and DCI-compliant server, the DSS200 offers improved storage, serviceability, and interoperability. A storage subsystem moves feature content around the network effortlessly. Flexible serial automation and closed captions support automation and access needs, and the ability to perform software updates remotely makes updates simple.

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quote:

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Industry leader Doremi Cinema announced today it will repackage its current 4K server technology into a 4K integrated media block (IMB) for DLP Cinema next generation electronics. This will secure a full solution for Texas Instruments’ and their OEM’s upcoming 2K and 4K projectors.

Doremi has been working with Texas Instruments’ DLP Cinema team for over a year to ensure compatibility of Doremi’s IMB with its next generation electronics. The IMB utilizes Doremi’s patent pending (USPTO 20070263937) 4K media block technology. Doremi’s 4K patent allows Doremi to capitalize on its 2K knowledge and technology by only adding the 4K portion to the back end of the processing. This eliminates Doremi’s need to design a whole new media block which would add a significant amount of time to any production release.

Engineering samples of Doremi’s IMB will be made available to TI’s OEMs for integration into their next generation projectors in Q3 2009. Production IMBs will be available in Q1 2010.

"Our ability to provide exhibitors with a 4K road map is vital," stated Michael Archer, Vice President, Doremi Cinema. We give them the opportunity to utilize a single server manufacturer across the multiplex. Exhibitors can mix and match 2K and 4K technology while keeping the same external server hardware, SMS and TMS. They also benefit from all the features available on Doremi servers, such as closed captioning, server generated 2D/3D subtitles and live event playback."

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quote:

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Digital cinema pioneer Barco is proud to announce that Cinemark Holdings, Inc., the world's second largest motion picture exhibitor, has entered into an exclusive agreement with Barco. As part of this agreement, Cinemark is also partnering with the DLP Cinema product group from Texas Instruments (TI) and media server provider Doremi to secure the industry's best-in-class and brightest digital cinema solution. This group of partners, representing more than 100 years in combined cinema expertise, will employ the full spectrum of Barco's upcoming new family of enhanced DLP Cinema next generation 4K projectors.

Cinemark plans to deploy digital cinema as part of the DCIP initiative. More than 3,000 digital projectors are to be installed in nearly 300 theater sites throughout the US, which include Cinemark's Century, Cine Arts and Tinseltown brands. Every theater will show the industry's biggest and brightest images, projected from Barco DLP powered projectors and driven by Doremi's 4K integrated media block. The agreement also includes plans for Cinemark's international locations in Latin America, which would bring the overall deployment to more than 4,600 screens.

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quote:

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Recognizing the enormous appeal of 3D cinema to theater owners and moviegoers, digital cinema pioneer Barco will showcase the industry's brightest projectors at Cinema Expo International, Amsterdam.

In the second half of 2009 blockbusters like 'Ice Age3', 'Avatar', 'Planet 51', 'Toy Story' and 'A Christmas Carol' will be released in 3D. Studios and audiences are clearly embracing 3D, as box office numbers of recent 3D premieres like 'Up' and 'Monsters vs Aliens' confirm. Based on Texas Instruments' DLP Cinema® technology, Barco's range of high bright digital cinema projectors ensure exhibitors a premium viewing experience and additional revenues.

“Brightness is one of the crucial elements when projecting 3D,” explains Wim Buyens, VP business development Digital Cinema at Barco. “More than 80% of light output gets lost when projecting 3D, making it very hard to project 3D on screens of more than 40ft wide. That's why we are cooperating with industry leaders like RealD, Dolby, XpanD and Master Image to continuously optimize 3D performance. Recently Dolby and Barco introduced their 3D large screen solution, featuring a dual-stack ultra high-bright Barco DP-3000 projector.”

Raf Rentmeesters, Product Manager Digital Cinema at Barco continues: “Image resolution is a second major influencer when projecting 3D. Our DP-2000 projector, the most cost-effective in the industry, delivers full 2K resolution in 3D mode, presenting owners and viewers with the highest possible 3D resolution today. It has the highest light efficiency on the 0.98” platform and was selected by Disney for their 'A Christmas Carol' train tour.”

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It's funny to note how for 2010 there are planned as many 3D movie releases as there were in 1953 (around 30). In 2009 their will be about as many as in 1954 (a bit <20).
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2009, 08:09 PM:
 
FYI, Dolby's new server will play 4K content.

I also particularly love the fluff in Cinemark and Barco's press releases.
 

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Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 07-09-2009, 09:12 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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FYI, Dolby's new server will play 4K content.

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