Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Economics of DCI subrun

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Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 10-10-2009, 11:48 PM:

I've been wondering what costs are involved for distributors when subrun cinemas go DCI.

As we screen 5 to 6 weeks after release, we get 35mm prints coming off multiplexes so there's no cost to the distributor. I presume the print handlers (Deluxe here in Australia) charge the distributors the same for a subrun as a first run for print handling.

When it comes to DCI, I suppose a hard-drive containing the movie is prepared (by the exchange?) for either first run or subrun, so there's a cost involved here to the distributor for both.

Does this mean there's extra costs for distributors for DCI subrun?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-11-2009, 08:08 AM:

They won't be preparing a drive specially for you as the drives with the films yoyu'll be playing sub run already exist. Here in the US and probably most other countries they circulate drives seperately with just previews and other pertinent headers on them so getting trailers is not generally an issue.

Monte's theater chain has a 3-D sub run house that does really well but I'll let him chime in with all the details.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-11-2009, 11:38 AM:

Yea..now we got two locations doing discount prices with each having a digital house.

Our first install (NEC 1600C units for both of them with "Real Dumb)" 3D) took awhile for the crowd to accept it until we brought in "Monsters and Aliens", then it exploded due to the fact that opposition is charging $3.50 on top of their regular $9.50 price which steals $13.00 out of your wallet to see a 3D movie on evening price.

Now, with us being a $2.00 house, we only do a $2.00 upcharge and folks likes the idea of only shelling out $4.00 to see a 3D movie.

Now, it doesn't sound like much money being made in the boxoffice, but concessions sales went through the roof, and as theatre owners know that in all due actuality, theatres are actually in the food selling business since that is what they are actually selling and not selling movies since we're just playing movies for someone else and taking a cut of the gate.

When we converted the 2nd location from first run to discount, it was totally slow until 3 weeks later that we added the NEC unit. Then, those numbers took a decent leap after the first week.

Doing digital has caught the eye of another discount theatre in the area and heard that they're thinking about it as well.

You might say, we started a trend of sorts where doing digital conversions for discount DOES work in certain markets - people are hunting for value and you better find ways to give it to them in any way mean and form..

P.M. me if any more questions or details..

-Monte

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 10-12-2009, 04:40 PM:

Monte,

This is very interesting. I didn't know any subs had converted yet.

When do you project your break-even point will be for the purchase of the equipment?

I've been considering it, but the numbers haven't worked out yet to justify the cost. Probably your attendance is much, much higher than mine.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-12-2009, 06:23 PM:

Hi Tony - what is our advantage is that we have no competition in the discount market for a good 25 mile radius and have a good customer base since 2001 when the plex was reopened from being closed for almost a year as a discount from when it was under the Cineplex Odeon banner when it opened in 1989.

Plus, our market populous is well over 100k people in the neighboring counties - mainly immigrant, poor to middle class - people who really go after the cheap deals in movie entertainment.

Granted, it was a risk to take - to install a digital in a discount (who would EVER thing of such a thing since adding digital is a sudden expense that a discount plex REALLY doesn't need to have) plex since it opened so poorly for the first three weeks,

But, now with all of these family based 3D movies coming over the horizon along with the $4.00 admit price, it's really caused a stir for people, once again, to wait until we get it and get in on the cheaper price.

As for the turnaround, I really can't answer that since it really depends on the market where one wants, or thinks on, to try this concept.

It's a 50/50 risk, no doubt about that.

Good luck - Monte

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 12-17-2009, 03:51 AM:

OK. Here's a new twist on digital availability for sub-runs.
Asked for a digital print of film and was told they no longer could supply any more digital copies of this film because they couldn't afford to buy any more keys.

Any ideas?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-17-2009, 03:59 AM:

It would seem they don't like you very much.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-25-2009, 04:09 AM:

Yea, that's an odd one to hear... They don't "buy" keys since the keys are sent via email and you download them on a thumbdrive that you have in your posession to insert in the server.

Who told you tht wild one?

-Monte

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-26-2009, 11:10 PM:

Who actually generates the keys? If its a third party, then they could be charging a service fee per key.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 12-28-2009, 05:01 PM:

quote: Jeremy Weigel
Who actually generates the keys? If its a third party, then they could be charging a service fee per key.

In the UK it is usually an outside firm that deals with the keys/drives etc. so they may only have be contracted for a certain number of key issues, and it is cheaper to send a print.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
They won't be preparing a drive specially for you as the drives with the films yoyu'll be playing sub run already exist

Arts Alliance in the UK copy the film onto the drive before they send it out to the cinema (with few films on crossover).

This does reduce the number of drives that they need to own, and reduces the storage issues.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-28-2009, 05:07 PM:

Err...as opposed to what? Sending out empty drives without the movie? [Confused]

Please tell me what I'm missing.

--jhawk

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-28-2009, 05:12 PM:

When distributors were in bed with big chains and didn't want to give product to smaller independents, their big lie was, "Sorry, we don't have an available print for you." Now that they can't use that total line of bs, it's "Sorry, we don't have any more keys for you." Same-o same-o.

No matter how they try to dress it up, their [bs]

always smells the same.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-28-2009, 06:06 PM:

What's interesting is that this could almost point to the booker - is he strong enough, or does he have enough grab to ensure a DCI (or even a film) print to one of the cinemas that he's booking for?

For we all know that the studios have the final say in all of this even though they want their product on as many screens as possible, but will still protect their product.

Prob why booking for sub/discount would be tons easier since the product have already made the money for the studios and being well off the break.

Usually, if a .kdm file is needed to unlock a feature (or to allow the feature to continue for numerous weeks), we usually call up TECH or DELUXE for this if they haven't send one down via email during the first part of the week.

-Monte

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 12-28-2009, 06:10 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Err...as opposed to what? Sending out empty drives without the movie?

As opposed to circulating drives round many cinemas as the text I quoted suggested.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2009, 06:33 PM:

Yes, KDM's are generated by a third party... I don't remember the name of the company off hand but I believe it says on the actual KDM who generated it. You can easily open a KDM in Word Pad and read it. Generating a new KDM should not take more than a few hours though... at worst next day.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-28-2009, 06:59 PM:

I found this one, and this one in our keys for 3rd party key generators.

-Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2009, 11:54 PM:

Even Dolby has the KDM required for Show Player upgrades geberated by a third party....

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-29-2009, 08:37 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Generating a new KDM should not take more than a few hours though... at worst next day.

Why should it take more than a few minutes to generate a KDM? Considering it's probably done by a person poking a few keys and clicking a mouse. I would think after a phone call, the thing could be generated in about 3 minutes once the film company person contacts the appropriate generating entity. What makes it so complicated?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-29-2009, 08:51 PM:

Usually what happens is that the studios don't get all the current booking info from the bookers on playdate scheduling which in turn the depots (TECH and DFS) issues the key via email.

There has been a few times that we had to call up the depots to send down the keys since they didn't get the updated booking info in time. But, lately, we've got that one all settled down.

The only thing I have to check on Thurs nights is that the updated key was already injested, and if it hasn't been, then I get on the computer to check emails for the key updates then copy them over to thumbdrive for injestion.

Then after I've done the injestion, I'll run the program through completely (start it up, then fast forward through the cues til just before end credits, then let the automation finish up the sequence to get it back to the beginning) to ensure that the key works even after the playlist displays that the movie is unlocked for that week's performance.

Granted, having to learn a whole new system, but it's quite an interesting world in all the same - this DCI stuff.

-Monte

Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 12-29-2009, 09:56 PM:

I'm lucky, in that I have direct email access to the guy who gets all out KDMs (of course, we use our digital screens exclusively for Indian content).

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 02-20-2010, 05:37 PM:

Further to my earlier problems with getting KDMs for DCinema, I have learnt that Deluxe, the sole provider of prints both film and DCinema in Australia, is the culprit. They are charging a large amount to generate a key for a subrun - so much that we cannot get drives at all from one distributor.

How is this helping digital rollout?

I should say this is only happening with one distributor. All others seem to be able to provide product and keys.

Posted by Todd McCracken (Member # 4718) on 02-22-2010, 02:19 PM:

Shucks, as long as you are booked it takes me about 2 minutes to generate and deliver a KDM.
However waiting for a booking can take a little bit depending on who is doing the booing.

Posted by Ronda Fitzsimmons (Member # 1418) on 03-02-2010, 10:09 AM:

Hey Monte, I've been looking at digital for my move-over houses in PA ($4/$2). Who did you get to put in the equipment? Can you share more of your experiences? How many screens do you have? How the heck did you finance it? I'm guessing you don't get any help from the film companies via VPFs... Thanks, Ronda
FunTime Cinemas

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-04-2010, 06:37 PM:

Hi Ronda - In a nutshell, it has been rather successful in our market area. Thx-Monte

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-05-2010, 09:09 PM:

(...and I sent you an email with details of the questions you asked ....) - thx Monte

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-07-2010, 12:10 PM:

I don't know if it's because of who we are or our location or what, but once we got booked with Avatar 3D this weekend, we got treated very well by Deluxe and Fox. I got a call from Deluxe just as the booking became official, asking me if I wanted a flat or scope digital print, and if I needed it ghostbusted or not. The KDM was in my email inbox soon thereafter, and the hard drive in house more than 48 hours before the first show.

This is our third Digital 3D title since we added RealD back in January, and if the distributors have any problems with DCI subruns, I have yet to experience it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-07-2010, 08:07 PM:

..and with our two DCI installs in each of our two discount locations, we've also yet to meet any problems..