We have gone through multiple lamps. I have now 6 in storage plus 2 we had sent back that won't strike. It starts at about 100 hours, and we get some to last through to the end of their warrenty +20 % (500+100 hrs). Some just stop being able to start. What you said does make sense, because it is obviously not the bulbs. There is nothing that shows up on the error log though as far as I know. Could the LPS voltage be low enough to not start the bulb, but high enough to not generate an error? I think we have gotten an error maybe twice in 2 years that mentions the LPS, but I don't recall what it was. It was when we still had the old front bulb support in. That old bulb support would commonly leak voltage to the frame, which caused all sorts of random messages from the lamphouse.
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-19-2010, 08:25 PM:
You could easily measure the output of the LPS when the lamp is off. Depending on the lamp size of course if its greater than 110V DC then the LPS is fine. If it's lower it will make very difficult for the lamp to strike. If you hear the spark then that means the SPG is probably fine. What size lamp are you using? If you measure a value of 110V DC on the LPS output and still the lamp does not ignite you need to change the SPG module. Star washers is another issue but you said that is already handled.
Demetris
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 02-20-2010, 01:05 AM:
We were using 6k lamps, we have now started using 6.5k lamps. I will try taking some readings on it tomorrow night after we close, assuming that they are able to get it to light tomorrow. Otherwise, I'll be up there in the morning.
Posted by Hendarto Ciputra (Member # 4868) on 02-20-2010, 01:18 AM:
On the start pulse generator, there're two short wire, they are accesible when u open the side panel that covers the engine side. Swapped them, it should do the trick, it's a known issue with earlier SPGs
rgds
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-20-2010, 05:44 AM:
The only cables on the SPG are the thick ones from the power supply! Are you suggesting him to swap the polarity? Good luck! Also one last remark. If you are using Osram lamps it would be wise to swap to Ushio. Osram digital lamps at those high wattages are known to have problems - hard to ignite, premature blackness e.t.c.
Demetris
Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 02-20-2010, 10:40 AM:
I will second that on Osram.
Posted by Hendarto Ciputra (Member # 4868) on 02-21-2010, 01:13 AM:
@Demetris don't be silly, not the thick cable, there's another pair, very short cable located in the inner part of the SPG. It is part of barco's infoT for problems pertaining to lamp that is difficult to strike when using older gen SPGs.
Anyway joe, here's the document from barco about it
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2DMYR2NK
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-21-2010, 08:54 AM:
I think Hendarto is right; there is a service notice about this, but I don't know if it includes the earlier models. It involves removing one resistor on each of the three power supply modules.
Also, there does seem to be a bad batch of Osrams going around, but there doesn't seem to be enough info (ser numbers, mfg dates, etc.) to identify them.
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-21-2010, 08:59 AM:
Digital Lamps of 6 and 6.5K of Osram are prone to failure and hard to ignite. Osram has yet to fix the issue. Who uses Osram these days anyway? Ushio is the right choice.
Demetris
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-21-2010, 10:24 AM:
Operating ANY large lamp 6kw and over is a touchy situation at best! It's the re-ignitions that will kill them. Recently in Salt Lake City a 6kw Ushio exploded in an NEC 2500 with only about 250 hours run time on it! I don't bet on ANY large short gap lamps these days as they are becomming more and more mass produced.
Mark
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 02-21-2010, 12:20 PM:
I'm going to try the polarity swap that Hendarto mentioned, as we do match the criteria to a T. I have a hard time believing that it is just the bulbs though, as it will strike the first time 9/10 and then will not strike at all the 10th time (at least not for 20-30 strikes), but then strike just fine again for 9/10 strikes. It is possible that the lamphouse has some damage due to those faulty insulators. It did fry a board internally already, and blew the audio in our first server, when we first received it in, before I found the problem.
Which for those who find this post and wonder what I am talking about, if your Barco DP-100 has this type of front bulb mount, there is a retro fit kit for it. I apologize for the blurriness. These pics are from the camera on my phone.
And this is what it did to the internal board.
I do not have a picture of the retro fit kit, but it is essentially a new UV glass filter, with the bulb mount attached to it. You leave in the old insulators to keep light from leaking out, but they are no longer used as the bulb end mounts.
Again, this is just for those seeking info on the insulator issue and the damage to the projector and server that can result. For us, this issue has been solved.
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-21-2010, 12:41 PM:
It will be interesting getting those readings from the LPS before and after the modification for reference. Hope it will fix your issue.
Demetris
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 02-21-2010, 01:18 PM:
Yes, I wonder if our problem isn't in the LPS because of the randomness of it, but if the polarity is reversed, that can't help the problem either. I always like to err on the side of caution, so I don't believe a problem is fixed until it has been running without fail for 6 months. Even if it seems like a fairly obvious fix, so I'll be watching the LPS voltages for a while.
And one more thing, it won't light within 3 minutes of having the bulb on prior. It maybe a built in fail-safe to keep someone from striking a hot bulb, but when we first got it, one of our guys would strike the bulb a few minutes before starting the show, to make sure it was going to light, and then would shut it off. Then he couldn't get it to start at showtime. We kept wondering why he had problems with it every time he worked. Once I found out, I told him, just leave the bulb on, it won't effect anything.
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-21-2010, 02:40 PM:
Joe what you mentioned above reminded me of a problematic xenon supply giving a no load of 40 V dc and it did exactly what you mention. It could ignite the lamp at first but not if switched off and then on again. I fixed the rectifier and giving 90 volt no load and after that every time ignited fine. this was standard cinema lamps 2 k. I still thing you should check the no load voltage to rule the LPS out.
Demetris
Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 02-24-2010, 12:10 AM:
If you have more than one DP100, you could start swapping assemblies starting with the lamp house first.
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 02-24-2010, 05:45 AM:
Well, I wasn't able to get a no-load voltage reading Sunday night, as my meter apparently got wet in the trunk of my car, and was not working properly. I did however swap the polarity as we met criteria 1 of that bulletin. I then tried in vain to get the lamp to not strike. It struck first time every time, even when hot (I know not good to strike it hot, but I was trying to get it to act up). I agree that there maybe something wrong with the LPS because of the random nature of it before, and I will be watching it closely, as I am a skeptic when it comes to any repair. That seems, however, to have solved some of our major problems with it. Should I have any further problems, or find out anything else on this I will update this post for posterity.
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-27-2010, 11:06 PM:
Xenon bulbs require significantly more no-load voltage to strike when they are warm. Look at Osram's tech guide for the numbers for a 6k. For a 2k, it's something like 80V nominal striking cold and 120V striking hot.
Most people think striking a bulb and then turning it off dramatically reduces its lifetime, and is a bad practice. But YMMV. If your bulbs fail for some reason other than electrode wear/shaping, then its probably irrelevant for you.
--jhawk
--jhawk
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 09-16-2010, 03:02 AM:
Just as an update to this, since the polarity swap, the bulbs now strike the first time every time. It has been 8 months now, and not a single problem with them striking, including going back through our bulbs that had to be taken out because they wouldn't strike after running for 200 to 300 hours.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-16-2010, 04:57 AM:
It's hard to believe that such a clear issue and solution is not communicated STRONGer from the manufacturer to the users. Did that Techbulletin reach you at all?
- Carsten
Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 09-17-2010, 10:16 PM:
Nope. But our projector is (as stated by the Barco engineers), is a pre-production unit. It needed several retrofit kits (see the bulb mount on page one of this post, for example) to solve issues that had been corrected by the time the projector hit full production. At the time the company bought it also, only the technicians were allowed access to Barco's web site. We changed our digital PM contracts from Strong to Christie, as most of the digitals in our chain where Christies. The Strong reps had access to the info, the Christie guys were still all going through training for it, and neither group had more that 1 or 2 other Barco's in all of Florida, so they did not have to deal with them often.
It wasn't until I was working with the Barco Engineers on another issue, that they gave me access to the site. I guess at sometime previous to this they opened up access for all theaters, but again, that info did not filter down to us. It was about 2 weeks after I posted that, and Hendarto mentioned that bulletin that I got access and was able to see the bulletins. The bulletins also allowed me to solve a couple of other minor issues too.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-21-2019, 04:06 AM:
It has been 3381 days since the last post.
Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 12-21-2019, 04:06 AM:
Hello.
I know this is an old post, but now we are experiencing striking issues on our Barco DP3000 and I can't access to the technical info at barco website, I wondering if someone can let me read the technical bulletin from barco about the trick of swaping cables in the SPG or any other similar to see if there is something to do.
All these year we used 3000W lamps in our DP3000, but 2 years ago I brought 2 units of new (old stock) 4000W Osram Classic Line lamps (only 1.000hours lasting lamps) at very good price.
Once installed last year, when the lamp was 500h old, the striking problems appears: Sometimes start in the first try, other it need push 10 times (4 strikes each) lamp on button.
I know Osram lamps have these problems, but maybe there is anything I can do to continue using this lamp.
I have a doubt about what happens if you put multiple "lamp on" cues in a show: If lamp is already on, do SPG new discharges or maybe the projector, knowing that lamp is already on, refuses to give new strikes to the lamp?
Thanks
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-21-2019, 07:09 AM:
The projector is smart enough to know when the lamp is on and won't actually strike again.
- Carsten