Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Projection Staffing Levels

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Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 07-24-2010, 06:46 AM:

Not sure if this in the right place, but if any of you out there are running a totally digital projection suite, what sort of staffing levels are you working on?

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 07-24-2010, 12:02 PM:

We have 3 buildings, all digital - 2 10 screens and 2 18.

The 18 screens with 35mm used to run with 3 shifts per day during the week - morning, evening and middle shifts; then weekends were 4 shifts - 2 morning and 2 evening.
The 10 screens with 35mm used to run with 2 shifts per day.

Now the 18 screens run a shorter "projection day" with 2 shifts, being all digital there is less morning time required because all that has to happen is turning on the power. Our 10 screens run a single shift each day where the managers turn the booth on and monitor through the first round of starts, then someone comes in to run the booth across the middle of the day into the evening through the last round of starts, then the evening manager closes down the booth at night.

There are still duties similar to 35mm to perform - i.e. instead of building a print someone has to build a playlist, instead of physically moving prints around someone has to ensure the content gets transferred to the right auditoriums, instead of verifying all the prints arrived someone has to verify that all the content was received/ingested as well as valid KDMs for the following week.
The biggest existing need that won't go away that I keep harping on to our ownership is that we need staff that is proactive in monitoring presentations rather than reactive to customer complaints about picture and sound - i.e. is it better to have a staff member notice a picture or sound issue and correct it before anyone notices or have a customer complain and thereby have many patrons notice the issue.

Of note is that 3 of our locations use Screenvision and their system starts all of our shows automatically according to schedule (NO ads after advertised showtime), our 4th location uses DCP ads and the Cinedigm Windows based TMS polls the POS for the schedule and starts all shows according to schedule (again, NO ads after showtime - the TMS calculates preshow time and starts it with the appropriate lead time).

Posted by Robert Carnino (Member # 5633) on 07-24-2010, 09:58 PM:

Really 3 shift for 18 screens? Did you have 2 people running the booth at one time? I ran 18 screens with 1 person each shift, a afternoon one and one for night.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-25-2010, 12:37 AM:

Why would a digital booth need anybody? Maybe once a week to shuffle data, but that's it.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 07-25-2010, 01:39 AM:

Number of staff needed depends on booth layout, show scheduling, and if you want your booth staff to get into the auditoriums and check the presentation from the customer's perspective - 18 screens with a start every 5-10 minutes means 1 person is running ragged trying to get downstairs to check picture/audio between starts. Our 18 screens have 5 booths (broken up due to ADA requirements for back row access) and 4 auditorium hallways off the main lobby so it is not feasable to do a round of auditorium checks quickly.

Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 07-25-2010, 05:57 AM:

Thanks David, trying to work out what staffing levels we'll need. We have 12 screens in 5 booths, so I have one open, one mid and a close exept for Thursday when we do the add and trailer changes , print moves etc then 2 on an open and 2 on a close. We've 3 digi's at the moment but will be totally digital by 2012.
We also do all maintenance in the building.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-25-2010, 06:15 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Why would a digital booth need anybody?

Which is an understandable statement since these DCP units CAN be set to be on an autoscheduler of sorts where they really don't needed that continual attention to begin shows - even though the operator's tasks are greatly reduced to being "injesters" and "button pushers".

But, it's just simply safer to know that the units will start with the servers going into their pre-start sequence of, pre-show terminations, bulb striking, sound changeover from pre-show to the file then douser opening for the image to go on the screen (just no framing and focusing to be concerned about during this start-up procedure..), why there still be operators in a full DCP complex.

Plus, there will still be bulb and filter maintenance, along with vacuum/clean/mop floors to keep dust down to a minimum during this time.

Now, at our 14plex, we run two booth people a day - one comes in prior to opening til 5:15 and the other comes in at 5p to close and that 15 minute overlap of the two operators ensure that no one leaves until the other one takes over. On Thursday, a third employee comes in to do film (we have 13 film and one DCP) while the booth is handled by closer.

Plus, if the opener has some messages to tell the closer, this is the time to pass on the info.

-Monte

-Monte

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-25-2010, 06:40 PM:

My customers were told by NATO/cbg that the equipment never fails and does not require people to work.

(That is the only way they become "cheaper.") Louis

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-25-2010, 07:02 PM:

Is there any POS software available that can interface with any current servers to automatically input show schedules?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-25-2010, 07:06 PM:

Never fails...now who was it said NATO had no sense of humor?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-25-2010, 07:18 PM:

In theory, can't EVERYTHING be run from a single location? And it wouldn't even have to be located in the projection booth; couldn't the entire automation and server(s) be located in the manager's office?

And with a fairly inexpensive verification system consisting of cameras and mics in each auditorium and a switching system to let a manager view and hear each room, one person could see that, at the very least, everything is up and running. Then a walk through in each theatre for direct observation could be done quite leisurly. Just a few hours maintenance in the booth to keep things clean, dust the lenses, mopping the floors, etc., would be all that would be necessary boothwise; in other words, Chief Projectionist morphing into Master Janitor.

I would think today's automation could start each show without ANY human intervention, no? It knows the start time, when to go from preshow to feature and exactly when to power up a lamphouse to have the bulbs preheated so they are full brightness when the show starts. By incorporating some simple verification feedback for those few iffy things like if the lamp actually struck, why would you need anyone to even push a button? All you would need is a human to verify that the automation did it -- or even more sophistocated -- automation smart enough to set off alarms if it didn't happen.

Needing a human to push even a start button seems unnecessary. Button-pushing would only be needed to over-ride the system should a start time would need to be held to accomodate say, a holdup of some kind such as clearing and seating full houses. But other than that, what Joe said --humans could become practically superfluous with a really robust automation system.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-25-2010, 07:57 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
In theory, can't EVERYTHING be run from a single location?

-- or even more sophistocated -- automation smart enough to set off alarms if it didn't happen.

That depends on your system and how it is designed and implemented. Film-Tech runs all of our systems from one central "full service" NOC in Texas.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 07-25-2010, 07:58 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
And with a fairly inexpensive verification system consisting of cameras and mics in each auditorium

Wow, I can imagine the MPAA going ballistic over that [evil]

It would pretty much defeat all of the "security" measures built into DCI.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-25-2010, 08:12 PM:

With the CA-21 automation we ran a 16-plex with film that had projectors start on their own. Granted we had to press one button so they knew the start time if I recall (not sure if they could auto-pull from the CA-Link software when we had them 10 years ago), but just as long as you don't thread your movie more than 24 hours in advance (23 hours and 59 minutes is OK, though) all was good. One projectionist could easily run the entire 16-plex with plenty of time to sleep, goof off, drive around town, eat, sleep some more and not miss a beat.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-25-2010, 08:51 PM:

None of that is an issue anymore Joe.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 07-25-2010, 09:42 PM:

How many theaters have no booth?

http://www.bbtheatres.com/wildwood.asp

excerpt: "This will also be the first theatre in the State of Missouri and one of the first in the world to be built without a projection booth (digital projection allows for this new building design)"

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-25-2010, 10:00 PM:

The Hollywood 14 in Centennial Colorado has no booth. Each auditorium has a room behind it and up some stairs with a digital projector. I don't know if they have any kind of central data management area, probably not. I got lots of pictures of this theater but I don't think I've submitted them anywhere yet.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-25-2010, 11:07 PM:

No time like the present then. They'd be interesting to see.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-25-2010, 11:37 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
This will also be the first theatre in the State of Missouri and one of the first in the world to be built without a projection booth (digital projection allows for this new building design

True with the units about the same length as a regular console, but not needing any form of film transport device, the term "booth" would be eliminated since the DCP units could be installed into a standard 8 ft hallway.

Yet, why was this placed in this description since "who cares" on what is done upstairs as long as the presentation on the screen is right, proper and correct?

-Monte

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-26-2010, 01:11 AM:

Sorry to B&B, but I have to agree nobody cares if you have a booth or not. Also a theater with all-digital projection won't have DTS sound and presenting a movie digitally has nothing to do with "digital filmmaking".

It sounds like the marketing person doesn't quite understand the technology here.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-26-2010, 02:41 AM:

quote: John Wilson
No time like the present then. They'd be interesting to see.

OK John I just submitted them. Unfortunately it will be about 7 months before the page is built and I am able to caption them and maybe a couple of weeks after that before it goes live, so check back then. You think I'm joking, but I'm not.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-26-2010, 03:31 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
With the CA-21 automation we ran a 16-plex with film that had projectors start on their own.

Bah. I've been able to do that for years, and with software that wasn't even designed for theatres.

I can start by clock time, but being a drive-in, that doesn't work too well. I have a couple of photo sensors that can tell the system it's dark enough to start, but I rarely use them, if ever.

Personally, I prefer to push the one button that fires off the start sequence here, then stand in the middle of the booth while everything starts rolling. Focus, sound, platters working properly, nothing making any unusual noises... good. Now, I can go downstairs and do the important stuff (making cheeseburgers) while "otto" watches the booth.

Hard to imagine taking all that stuff for granted, given you can piss a lot of people off with just a couple of minutes worth of minor problems... maybe that's just old school... or an on-site owner's mentality.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-26-2010, 03:32 AM:

Do you have a 16-plex drive-in?

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 07-26-2010, 09:07 AM:

quote: Mike Frese
How many theaters have no booth?

I forget the chain name, but I met an exhibitor last year who has been buiding no booth for almost 2 years now.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
told by NATO/cbg that the equipment never fails and does not require people to work

Almost true, on the surface . . . . . problem with not having a booth staff is ther will be a catastrophe when something DOES fail because no one paid attention to the system - there still needs to be someone on staff with enough knowledge and experience to notice issues and be pro-active in getting them fixed (as opposed to reactive to customer complaints or failures). Personally I think if exhibitors jump to staffless booths too quickly we will have the same number of marginal to poor presentations that we have now with some 35mm houses (i.e. if an exhibitor has poor 35mm presentations now due to being cheap on maintenance, they will eventually have poor digital presentations as well)

quote: Jeremy Weigel
Is there any POS software available that can interface with any current servers to automatically input show schedules?

We use the Cinedigm Windows based TMS at our newest location - it can pull schedules from various POS systems and once features are mapped it will schedule content transfers too. I have not investigated any others yet so I don't know if there are more out there. Most POS systems can be polled so the scheduling import would be a function of a TMS server.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-26-2010, 10:05 AM:

The race to the bottom accelerates! Louis

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-26-2010, 05:39 PM:

quote: Martin McCaffery
Wow, I can imagine the MPAA going ballistic over that It would pretty much defeat all of the "security" measures built into DCI.

Martin, and don't you think that thought was running thru my mind as I typed the words! But also the thought, " [fu]

em," came right after it. I mean, ditial is all watermarked up the wazoo -- at least according to MPAA yes? So if the exhib knows the only reason the system is in place is to verify there's picture and sound on the screen and he's NOT copying anything, then no copy will ever show up so he has nothing to worry about.

Besides, you can easily arrange to have cross hatches superimposed on the image, maybe even with the time, date, screen number an even the name of the theatre so even if someone were to tap into that system, the image would be useless. Besides, there isn't a recorder of any kind anywhere in the system. Nothing is being COPIED or broadcast so in theory there isn't any copyright infringement. But you are right, that wouldn't stop the super paranoid MPAA freaks' heads from exploding.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-07-2010, 02:43 AM:

quote: John Wilson
No time like the present then. They'd be interesting to see.

OK John, it's now on the front page. That was a quick 7 months!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-07-2010, 04:03 AM:

Most interesting looking complex. yet, they could have done something better with that small house with the exit on the side.

Wonder if they could had made that walkway go low so the patrons would go under the screen instead of making it look like a single house that Carmike ran and then they converted that single house to a twin...

Posted by Jason Metcalfe (Member # 5739) on 08-08-2010, 03:41 PM:

Our 5-plex in Dallas was built without a booth

the floor staff acts out the movie with flashlights while standing behind the screen and I play various instruments from beneath our stadium seating

needless to say, we had mixed feedback from customers leaving Inception

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 08-30-2010, 10:15 PM:

I feel in a Multiplex you need someone with technical training on site that isn't the Manager at all times. I can think of two major issues straight away in a staffless booth, the ACOP system failing in an evacuation, and secondary lighting failing in a given area, both with no-one to fix it because the Manager has to deal with something else or doesn't know how to do it. In the latter case you lose a screen and in the former you create potentially dangerous hassle and wasted time in a serious situation. There have been occasions where I would have been screwed without my Projectionist and I don't see that changing when we become all-digital.

Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 01-22-2011, 08:24 AM:

Ok, we are now 50/50 35mm/Digi. I've noticed a huge reduction in work levels and have cut hours by about half. I'd be intested in how other projection suites are dealing with this issue?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-22-2011, 01:13 PM:

Did you increase your operators' pay rates to reflect the additional knowledge and skill required to operate both film and [dlp]

equipment?

Posted by Peter Egglington (Member # 3448) on 01-23-2011, 03:54 AM:

I think Justin has answered the question of manning levels very well. He has seen the reduction in workload, and with that will go the reduction in booth staff. I hope you're not a projectionist Justin as when that magic 100% digital figure comes in, there will not be a requirement for anyone in the booth. Here in the UK all the major chains are making their technical staff redundant. The days of the projectionist are (long overdue) over.

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 01-23-2011, 04:24 AM:

Gee, it's too bad that the pre-show at the Horton Plaza in one of the back theatres was running with a blown xenon. Of course it was explained that there was no one there who could change the bulb. I believe it. So they started the feature slightly out of frame, one channel distorting badly, (sounded like a blown cone)... oh, did I mention that the aperture had been filed crooked? I know because there wasn't any masking there. Which is okay, I suppose, as the projector had to throw at an angle as that theatre had been built. But the even that parallax wouldn't have accounted for this.

Yeah, low staffing levels. I totally believe it. Got my money back to prove it. The Customer Service person couldn't fit my laundry list of items onto her form. Real problem is that it wasn't even a digital house.

Posted by Kris Verhanneman (Member # 5562) on 01-23-2011, 04:47 AM:

Now why does everybody thinks that going full digital is less work?
You still need to maintain the projectors, filters, servers, 3D wheels.
You got lots of extra jobs ( projecting other stuff than film like pc, HD cam, satelite, ...). You can learn them how to created a DCP (to support your candy store, upcoming events ...).

The actual fysical workload has indeed changed. But there is still a huge amounth of work in the projection room. You need to have qualified staff in your projection room ...
And most, you need to want to have staff in your projection room.
In stead of saying 'cut the hours' learn them how to use their time up there better.

I did love the reply of Jim. It proves that you still need qualified people up there.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-23-2011, 10:03 AM:

I think there's a difference between "someone in the booth" - which is really not required with an all-video cinema - and "someone who can handle problems" present at all times. You need to have someone who understands the systems and how to work with them. Stuff happens: lamps fail to start, servers stop talking to projectors, macros mysteriously don't work one time in a thousand... having support via a NOC is good for serious issues so a trained tech can be scheduled where needed but usually someone who "has a clue" needs to go and restart a lamp or reboot something. Paying a trained "projectionist" to sit on his/her hands and go crazy from boredom makes no sense financially or any other way. But you need to have someone in the building, whether a manager or a cleaner, who knows the basics of the projection system and whose job priority is correcting projection problems and doing other jobs when nothing's wrong. Naturally projection problems appear at show set start times when everyone is most busy, but that's life.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-23-2011, 07:35 PM:

quote: Peter Egglington
The days of the projectionist are (long overdue) over.

What do you have against us Peter?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-24-2011, 01:03 AM:

quote:
I hope you're not a projectionist Justin as when that magic 100% digital figure comes in <> The days of the projectionist are (long overdue) over.

How come it is always people with no picture and six posts come in and say stuff like this?

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 01-24-2011, 06:36 AM:

Well isn't he right? The days of a projectionist being a career you could feed your family on are long gone. Most people here are in ancillary fields now, like technicians, manufacturers and theatre owners. Sad, yes. True, also yes.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-24-2011, 09:58 AM:

Damien...I think it is the "long overdue" part that irks folks. It is one thing to accept the demise of a once honorable profession (elevator operator, brakeman on a train...etc). It is another thing to actually wish the demise of someone's job for seemingly no other reason than pure spite.

-Steve

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-24-2011, 10:06 AM:

Sorry, that is not true. There are projectionist all over the world still running film. Perhaps not in the numbers and in the configurations that you see as applied to commercial theatres, but he doesn't make that qualification. He makes a blanket statement. And you can be sure that there are projectionist making very good livings in screening rooms and in specialty venues which will remain so well into the foreseable future. Although commercial movie theatres AT SOME POINT IN TIME (a point not even the best professionals can predict with any certainty), that magical 100% digital is as much an unknown as when the Big One will hit California. How many rolls of film are sitting on shelves around the world? Whenever they need to be screened, they will need a projectionist and as more time goes on, the more in demand and the more skilled that projectionist will have to be. As long as there is film, there will be the need for projectionists. Just ask the people at the Library of Congress and every other film archive in the world.

That is not the point, however. What I take umbrage at, is his flippant, arrogant and dismissive attitude. In a forum of hundreds of people who make a living connected in one way or another to film, does he think that to come in here and state with that kind of taunting glee that getting rid of projectionists is something that is "long overdue," is going to be endearing?

Take that crap to the digital forums.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 01-24-2011, 12:43 PM:

Yes it really offends me also and it's the attitude i have endured from many managers who hate film but are forced to deal with it since real projectionists became a redundant expense to theaters with automation!
It has become worse since D Cinema installs started happening as is predictable but such is life at the multiplex!

I should add some managers are very cool and understanding about our predicament.

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 01-24-2011, 10:27 PM:

What's going to happen is while no one will be running booth, there will still be a need for a projectionist to be on the floor just in case a xenon blows or there's some other need. I don't think projectionists are going away (and I don't know why people would be happy that they are).

Heck I like the way its going, now I can do the important booth maintenance and other things i'd like to catch up on instead of being stuck threading/building up films.
It can be thought of as a win/win, the people who might actually see this as a loss are those who can only thread a projector (but not do any real work with them) and won't be needed anymore