Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Is digital 3D possible at a drive-in?

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 07-27-2010, 02:44 AM:

One of my fellow managers and I were knocking this around Monday night.
We came up with several potential problems:
1. Screen surfaces. The Spud Drive-in in Idaho recently went digital 2D with a screen surface which is best described as "quilt-like". I would think the owners, who claimed they are going to be able to run 3D in the future, would have to use Dolby 3D as that format does not require silver screens. Or does that really matter here?
If they chose this format, they will have fun getting the 3D glasses back from the customers.
2. Windshields. They are all different. Some people will have better 3D results than others. Some will have to watch the movie outside of their vehicles.
3. That picture is gonna be dark.
I'm wondering what some of the more knowledgeable techs think.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-27-2010, 03:41 AM:

quote:
If they chose this format, they will have fun getting the 3D glasses back from the customers.

That picture is gonna be dark.

they could capture dr. licenses in exhange for glasses rental. Then, return the glasses for their licenses.

They're running a BARCO out there and if they got the big one, that unit can run a 7k bulb in it.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-27-2010, 03:44 AM:

quote: James Westbrook
One of my fellow managers and I were knocking this around Monday night.
We came up with several potential problems:
1. Screen surfaces. The Spud Drive-in in Idaho recently went digital 2D with a screen surface which is best described as "quilt-like". I would think the owners, who claimed they are going to be able to run 3D in the future, would have to use Dolby 3D as that format does not require silver screens. Or does that really matter here?
If they chose this format, they will have fun getting the 3D glasses back from the customers.

Dolby 3-D does not rely on polarised light, and so should, in theory, work with whatever this screen surface is, but it also has a higher light loss than most other systems. Given the difficulty in getting enough light on a drive in screen even for a 2-D show, I think this would be a serious issue here.

quote: James Westbrook
2. Windshields. They are all different. Some people will have better 3D results than others. Some will have to watch the movie outside of their vehicles.

Stresses in materials affect polarisation of light, they can be dectected by viewing between crossed polaroids, so toughened glass would be a problem with these systems; I'm not sure about laminated. With Dolby tinted windshields might be a problem, and of course would lose even more light.

quote: James Westbrook
3. That picture is gonna be dark.
I'm wondering what some of the more knowledgeable techs think.

Very dark, I think. The newer digital projectors do seem to put more light on the screen per Watt than 35mm but I think it's going to be very difficult to get a reasonable looking picture.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 07-27-2010, 04:26 AM:

Monte,
Driver's licenses. Of course. I forgot about that.
That resolves the glasses return...drive-ins probably had to do that with the plug-in in-car heaters they rented out years and years ago in the winter time...
Stephen,
We are both thinking along the same lines regarding windshields, especially with the tinting, laminations, curving...the customer would likely have to leave their vehicle to get a decent 3D effect.
I'm just not seeing digital 3D being viable at a drive-in. 7K lamp, 2 projectors stacked...even with that there are just too many obstacles to proper 3D presentation.
What about some other type of outdoor venue? The "movies in a grassy park on some inflatable screen" type of event? That would eliminate the windshield...

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 07-27-2010, 09:25 AM:

"especially with the tinting, laminations, curving"

I think the only difference between digital Dolby 3D in a drive-in and "standard" 2D in a drive-in will be the tinting. If curving of laminations would have an effect, it would be the same in non-3D setups.

Tinting in front car windows is always gentle (I suppose the law doesn't allow you driving with e.g. purple haze ;-)): impact on Dolby filter should be minimal... at least not perceivable

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-27-2010, 09:57 AM:

I think this was covered best at the UDITOA meeting last year. Everything mentioned above was also mentioned there.

I think the tempered glass on windshields is a major problem, since it prohibits 3D in-a-car. Likewise, the light losses (of any 3D process) effectively eliminates any 3D before late night. (Notice that most if not all 3D is oriented towards kids.)

The Dolby process fixes the screen problem, but creats another since it is very inefficient.

Maybe someone should do this as a test (at no risk to the theatre owner.) Louis

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 07-30-2010, 11:07 AM:

quote: James Westbrook
What about some other type of outdoor venue? The "movies in a grassy park on some inflatable screen" type of event? That would eliminate the windshield...

This would only work in a formal, ticketed admission situation (where people can collect/return glasses), not for a more informal drop in show (funded by sponsorship etc.)

Again Dolby (or active glasses) would have to be used unless somebody can make a very robust silver screen (capable withstanding outdoor usage, and being folded up for transport).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-30-2010, 01:32 PM:

Does polarized 3D work on rear-projection screens? If so, that may be an option for a "movies-in-the-park" show.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-31-2010, 07:39 PM:

Outdoor 3D has already been done on the inflatable screen in New York a few weeks ago, the artical mentions Real D

Outdoor Movies Inc. Projects First Digital 3D Outdoor Movie

Outdoor Movies announced today that they supplied technical and production capabilities for the nation’s first outdoor digital 3D film event July 16 at Brooklyn Bridge Park with the backdrop of the Statue of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge and Manhattan.

(I-Newswire) July 20, 2010 - Outdoor Movies announced today that they supplied technical and production capabilities for the nation’s first outdoor digital 3D film event July 16 at Brooklyn Bridge Park. Set to the stunning backdrop of the Statue of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge and lower Manhattan skyline, the show demonstrates new possibilities for film festivals and outdoor events around the country.

The brilliant 3D images entranced a 5,000-person audience with a showing of Monsters v. Aliens, the first digital 3D movie ever made. Outdoor Movies worked in partnership with Fresh Air Flicks of New York, RealD of California.

“As the nation’s leading provider of high-end outdoor movie
projection services, we are thrilled by the quality and flawlessness of the 3D images at the beautiful outdoor venue,” said Bob Deutsch, the president and CEO of Outdoor Movies.
Deutsch expects the demand for similar 3D outdoor movie events to rise rapidly, mirroring the growing popularity of the new technology in traditional cinema.

Outdoor Movies, is a full-service company specializing in outdoor movie events, outdoor movie screens and equipment sales. We provide the highest quality professional outdoor movie services and equipment. Outdoor Movies is trusted by studios and filmmakers for their premieres, film festivals, and events. Our commitment to state of the art equipment includes DCI compliant and 3D capable projection systems, servers and processors.

web page

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 08-01-2010, 01:30 AM:

To quote Jamie and Adam, we now know it's possible.
(Jamie and Adam are the Mythbusters, by the way.)

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-02-2010, 02:13 AM:

quote: Cameron Glendinning
Outdoor 3D has already been done on the inflatable screen in New York a few weeks ago, the artical mentions Real D

OK... but was the audience outside, or sitting in their cars? As Louis indicates, the problem isn't whether outdoor 3D can be done, but what a car's windshield would do to the polarization. Unless you're in California, most drive-ins might have a problem with that.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 08-02-2010, 02:42 AM:

Louis also pointed out that the 3D movie would have to start really late at a drive-in, which would relegate it to horror fare as opposed to kid movies.
It may be doable on paper and by theory, and possible in a park, but the car windshields, almost all being different, some cleaner than others, some tinted more than others, would have the likelihood of causing grief amongst customers (and staff.)

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 08-02-2010, 05:10 AM:

"Does polarized 3D work on rear-projection screens? If so, that may be an option for a "movies-in-the-park" show. "

I've never seen polarised 3D in rear-projection; typically time-sequential (Xpand) is used.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 08-02-2010, 05:41 AM:

With the screen sizes, throws and screen/patron distances involved, and assuming a reasonably bright post polariser image would not be of sufficient size to give a worthwhile 3D effect anyway.
3D works in a hardtop because of the much shorter viewing distance to the screen and the corresponding wider field of view that is covered which "immerses" the viewer in the action and 3D effects.

This just doesn't happen in the majority of Drive In Theatres.

Posted by Todd McCracken (Member # 4718) on 08-02-2010, 07:23 AM:

Yes it would work, however I think that it wont be until laser projectors come into their own when you will see a return to outdoor venues in numbers.

I cant wait [Smile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_video_projector

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 08-13-2010, 09:23 PM:

We have run film 3D with no problems in the past at our drive-in.

We'll just need a glasses collection point at the ticket box if we go with Dolby; then there will be a line-up of cars waiting to exit the theatre as well as get in!

....or go silver screen and watch it rust.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-15-2010, 01:11 AM:

quote: David Kilderry
We have run film 3D with no problems in the past at our drive-in.

We'll just need a glasses collection point at the ticket box if we go with Dolby; then there will be a line-up of cars waiting to exit the theatre as well as get in!

....or go silver screen and watch it rust.

So have I, but it was the anaglyph process... not all that good.

If you haven't silvered your screen(s) yet, you probably haven't run the kind of 3D that's the topic here.

Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 08-17-2010, 03:24 PM:

Spud Drive-In in Idaho is digital

Spud Drive-In Goes Digital

quote:
For more than half a century, the Spud Drive-In has been a local landmark in Diggs, Idaho. Last month, with screenings of Despicable Me and Robin Hood, it became America’s first true digital drive-in. While other outdoor theatres have used digital projectors to show DVDs to large outdoor audiences, Spud is the only drive-in to date to actually employ digital cinema projection and surround sound audio. They plan to install 3D technology this month.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-17-2010, 06:26 PM:

"using mono-speakers that hung in the windows to broadcast the audio and twin carbon ark real to real projectors."

We have a novice reporter here. Ark and real to real?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-18-2010, 12:03 AM:

quote: Sam D. Chavez
Ark and real to real?

yah... well, consider where it came from. [Roll Eyes]

What's the practical range for viewing silvered screens. Last one I saw, the light drop-off was pretty dramatic beyond 40 degrees or so.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-25-2010, 02:33 PM:

Really? Is Noah involved? Louis