Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: AMC's ETX system question

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 10-13-2010, 09:36 PM:

Is AMC's ETX system comprised of Sony's Digital projection system or is it something else?

for the record:

AMC also offers ETX at AMC Empire 25 (New York City); AMC BarryWoods 24 (Kansas City, MO); AMC Pleasure Island 24 (Orlando, FL); AMC Burbank 16 and AMC Century City 15 (Los Angeles); AMC Northpark 15 (Dallas); AMC Metreon 16 (San Francisco); AMC Forum 22 (Montreal) and AMC Yonge & Dundas 24 (Toronto). Another ETX auditorium is scheduled to open soon at AMC Aventura 24 (Ft. Lauderdale, FL).

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 10-26-2010, 01:06 AM:

I believe the ETX projectors are in fact SONY

Pretty damn good presentation.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 10-26-2010, 05:20 PM:

I can't find any resource to back up the assertion that ETX is using Sony 4K units. The only reference I can find that leans toward that fact is the mention on the AMC web site, describing ETX:

quote:
ETX Includes 20% larger floor-to-ceiling screen, breathtaking sound and digital projection that is higher resolution than HD.

http://www.amctheatres.com/Empire/

Click on the ETX logo on the left-hand side of the page for the above description.

None of the ETX theaters are saying anything about 4K in the same breath as ETX in their showtime notes, as well. Maybe they're assuming that the two go together, but audiences wouldn't have any reason to automatically connect the two.

The main ETX page says very little. Considering how much they are upcharging for shows in the ETX screens, they could put more than 5 minutes into publicizing it...

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 10-26-2010, 06:21 PM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
None of the ETX theaters are saying anything about 4K in the same breath as ETX in their showtime notes, as well. Maybe they're assuming that the two go together, but audiences wouldn't have any reason to automatically connect the two.

I believe all the cinemas at Yonge Dundas 24 in Toronto are 4K SONY Machines.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-26-2010, 09:00 PM:

Yet, isn't all digital info on the HD still in 2K form? Like watching a lesser resolution video on a 1080p TV ...?

Granted, with SONY using a higher resolution chip when doing 3D so you don't have the classic "triple flash" as with the other units where each eye has it's own dedicated information, but shove a 2D playback through a SONY and it's no better than a BARCO, Christie or NEC...

Sounds like AMC is copying REG's process .. "Whoopie! Let the race begin!"

-Monte

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 10-26-2010, 10:45 PM:

I wonder if the Sony is worse than 2k dlp as i have yet to see it theatrically but the home theater HD versions look softer than most 1080 dlp projectors i have compared.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-27-2010, 12:46 AM:

Visually, I can't tell the difference between the SONY 2K and the DLP 2k presentations...in the 3D form.

But, what helps a lot is when the throw is long so the light is more concentrated, then you got a great picture.

Short throws and big screens really disperses the light quite a bit.

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 10-27-2010, 08:20 PM:

I think i'm going to check out an ETX show at the aventura AMC, if I can peek in the booth i'll let you know what they're running

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 03-01-2011, 08:40 PM:

do all the ETX screen feature/playback 7.1 films? (like the Cinemark XD, Regal RPX setups)

I see that AMC is installing an ETX system over at Tysons Corner beginning on the 18th of March.

Posted by Eric Rice (Member # 4665) on 03-02-2011, 11:22 PM:

I watched Unstoppable in the ETX auditorium at the Pleasure Island 24 in Downtown Disney back in November. They'd converted an auditorium with a balcony with the booth underneath it with a very large port window, could see everything in the booth from the back row. They were running a Christie 2k, the rest of the complex had Sony 4ks.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 03-03-2011, 01:25 PM:

well now I'm really confused I thought ETX systems were comprised of Sony units, but with your comment it sounds like AMC is switching between Sony and Christie projector's depending on the size of the screen. AMC installed a Christie DLP system on the Uptown screen since it outputs a greater amount of light needed for such a large screen - not that AMC needs to be wedded to Sony, but I'm glad they are branching out and using the suitable technology - I'd think though if Christie is the alternative, I'd hope they are 4K DLP upgradeable since the Solaria systems are now available.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-03-2011, 01:46 PM:

This situation with digital projection and large screens is so goofy and stupid.

The native 4K projectors have resolution levels more acceptable (but still not great) for giant screen use if the movie file is native 4K in resolution; very few are. But they throw an image that's just too dim.

Some 2K projector models can throw a somewhat adequately bright image onto a giant sized screen; they can do better still in brightness when dual 2K projectors are used. But the imagery is still just 2K and just too fuzzy or pixel-jaggy to work well.

35mm doesn't really work so great on giant sized screens.

To this day, the only format that works on great big screens:
70MM FILM PROJECTION.

Posted by Chase Pickett (Member # 5975) on 03-03-2011, 04:17 PM:

An ETX install is being completed today at my theater here in Colorado. Unlike the rest of the digital houses here, it is a Christie 2k (3200 it the model I believe) with a 4k upgrade. The sound system is 12.1 too. Not that we would really ever need it, but we do have the capability now. Hope this helps.

ALSO: AMC seems to be going with Christie now for the larger auditoriums. The sony 4Ks just can't provide enough light for screens bigger than 80 feet wide.

EDIT: 11.1 surround sound. Not 12.1 [uhoh]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-03-2011, 10:54 PM:

Maybe the system has "11.1" channels of amplification, but that in no way makes it deliver 11.1 channel sound.

The native channel layout of the movie soundtrack is what really determines the channel layout. Nearly all are just 5.1. It doesn't matter how many amps and speakers are thrown at it it's still only 5.1.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 03-03-2011, 11:10 PM:

Filmjournal.com is reporting that ETX is five stage/screen channels, six surround, two low-frequency.

filmjournal

Posted by Chase Pickett (Member # 5975) on 03-04-2011, 02:45 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The native channel layout of the movie soundtrack is what really determines the channel layout. Nearly all are just 5.1. It doesn't matter how many amps and speakers are thrown at it it's still only 5.1.

That's why I said I don't think we will ever need that many channels. We have the CAPABILITY to utilize that many when we do get a feature mixed in 11.1.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-04-2011, 10:43 AM:

quote: Tom Petrov
Filmjournal.com is reporting that ETX is five stage/screen channels, six surround, two low-frequency.

It doesn't matter what line of Regal's marketing bullshit Filmjournal is willing to swallow, it's still bullshit. Despite its capabilities that system is still, at best, only presenting 5.1 channel audio, with 7.1 in some rare cases. The movie's sound mix determines that. The claim of extra channels is a marketing lie. Until movies are natively mixed in 9.1, 10.2, 11.1 or whatever channel layouts the "extra channels" in these over-priced fake IMAX, fake THX concept theaters will be like tits on a bull: pointless.

To go to an extreme example, you could put together a "4096.64 channel" sound system with so much hardware you couldn't fit it all into Cowboys Stadium. Nevertheless, if you're presenting Hollywood movies through it you're only listening to 5.1 or 7.1 content at best. Get the point yet?

Here's another one, a HDTV analogy. Does the HDTV hardware make anything shown on it "HDTV"? Hell no. Many people have only SD-quality signals fed into their flat screen HD capable TV sets -whether it's SD quality cable/broadcast signals or video from a DVD player. Worse yet, they have the SD picture stretched to fill the screen. The HDTV hardware doesn't magically convert any of that SD material into HD. If anything, big flat panel HDTV sets make a SD quality video signal look even more shitty than it did on an old NTSC CRT picture tube TV.

Extra features in hardware are nothing if the software/media being played through it wasn't created to take specific advantage of those features. So any movie theater claiming to show movies in "9.1 surround" is lying its ass off to customers.

quote: Chase Pickett
That's why I said I don't think we will ever need that many channels. We have the CAPABILITY to utilize that many when we do get a feature mixed in 11.1.

Hell may freeze before that happens.

The DTS-XD10 processor, with a couple card upgrades, would allow for more than 8 channels of audio. No movies were ever mixed to take advantage of the capability. Digital cinema can handle up to something like 16 channels of audio. Yet it has taken the Blu-ray format on home video to push movie theaters into offering 7.1 audio with a four surround channel layout.

A type of lethargy has set in with movie productions on pushing movie audio any farther past its current capabilities.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-04-2011, 11:59 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
It doesn't matter what line of Regal's marketing bullshit Filmjournal is willing to swallow

I'd be surprised if Regal would market ETX for AMC. [Razz]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-04-2011, 01:19 PM:

Yeah, but Regal dishes out the same bullshit with RPX. It's easy to get all of the acronyms confused when all the bullshit smells the same. The thing is, though, with RPX, Regal claims to be doing some matrixing bullshit to fill the extra channels with sound. AMC may be doing the same. If I were a sound mixer, I'd be bitching about that. Definitely not as it was intended to be heard.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-04-2011, 03:26 PM:

It would be really funny if they played a Woody Allen movie in one of these XD-RPX-ETX-XXX-OMG-PMS theaters. A mono mix faked into "9.1" surround. Um, yeah.
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 03-21-2011, 05:30 PM:

I saw 'Battle: Los Angeles" this morning at AMC Tysons Corner on their new ETX screen and my impression is a bit mixed. The image seemed brightened too much - the white lettering throughout the movie came across as hazy and a tad out of focused, as well as the black levels not as deep as I had hoped - for a ETX setup with a Christie DLP system it came as a let down on the visual side. However on the sound - unreal!, while the film's mix is aggressive, okay, that's an understatement, the volume never drowned out the bad dialogue, and all the gunplay and explosions had tremendous power and intensity, the bass seemed tight and with certain key scenes, it sounded to drop down several octaves - numerous times, the bass literally rocked the floor under my feet. The ears had a roller coaster ride, the eyes and brain on the other hand were set on standby.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-21-2011, 07:26 PM:

There is an ETX screen up in some northern town at a mall called Flatirons but I just can't seem to generate any ambition to see it. Maybe when (or if) they ever get a decent movie in that auditorium I'll make the trip, but so far nothing this year has been worth seeing.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-21-2011, 07:51 PM:

Diary of a Wimpy Kid 2 opens next week Joe. [Razz]

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-22-2011, 02:36 AM:

Effing Flatiron Crossing. I hate that place with a passion only reserved for Dennis Kucinich and Andie MacDowell.

Posted by Chase Pickett (Member # 5975) on 03-22-2011, 03:05 PM:

Hey now I'm the lead projectionist at Flatirons Crossing. Why the utter hatred? But as far as audio goes, no blending or channel smearing goes on in the system we use. If the DCP is mixed in 5.1 it plays in 5.1, or if it's mixed in 7.1 then we play it in 7.1, and so on. If there is a feature mixed in mono it will play in mono. Long story short is I select which audio format the feature is mixed in and use just those channels. Lower mixes do not get blended into other channels.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-22-2011, 04:25 PM:

Sounds like it beats Regal's RPX right there.

Posted by Todd McCracken (Member # 4718) on 03-22-2011, 08:13 PM:

I cant wait to see the new laser projectors. Big screens and lumen's should not be an issue. Though I have yet to see the pricing on the units they should be awesome for outdoor projection (drive ins) to boot [Smile]

Of course I don't think I will hold my breath for AMC or Regal to swap out their newly purchased Sony 4k units anytime soon.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-28-2011, 10:50 AM:

I'm talking about the whole effing, soulless mall.