Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Industry screening of 'North By Northwest' (4K DLP)

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 11-08-2010, 09:59 PM:

Cypress, CA
Nov 8, 2010

Christie Presents World’s First Full Feature Screening in 4K DLP Cinema
Alfred Hitchcock’s masterpiece “North by Northwest” presented flawlessly on Christie’s premiere 4K Solaria Series Projector

Christie, the leader in digital cinema projection, has presented the world’s first full feature screening in 4K resolution DLP Cinema before members of the Hollywood community. Held at the famed Mann Chinese theater complex in Hollywood, California, the screening was presented for the annual Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) technical conference.

SMPTE is the leading technical society for the motion picture industry. The 4K presentation on a Christie Solaria CP4230 projector, featured Alfred Hitchcock’s classic, “North by Northwest,” which was meticulously restored by Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging (MPI) with a process that included the highest available scanning resolution and played back using an Integrated Media Block from Doremi Cinema.

“We were impressed by the 4K presentation of this timeless Hitchcock chase thriller,” said Wendy Aylsworth, SMPTE Engineering Vice President and Senior Vice President, Technology, Warner Bros. Technical Operations. “The image looked superb, and the audience gave the film enthusiastic and rave reviews. Both Motion Picture Imaging’s restoration and the digital presentation were excellent.”

“The audience saw details in the 4K restoration that were unlike anything ever seen before,” said Brian Claypool, Senior Product Manager, Entertainment Solutions for Christie. “It’s not an easy thing to showcase new technology to an audience of engineers and technicians who belong to every discipline of the film industry. To get such a positive reaction from them is proof that superior 4K has arrived, and Christie’s 4K DLP Cinema solution meets the industry’s highest standards in image quality for spectacular 2D and 3D presentations.”

The new Christie Solaria™ Series 4K projector line for digital cinema features the enhanced 4K DLP Cinema chip from Texas Instruments (TI) (NYSE: TXN) and is designed to be compliant with the Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specification. It was the first 4K DLP Cinema projection system to be demonstrated publicly at IBC in September 2010 and launched at ShowEast several weeks ago, where Christie began accepting orders.

The latest Christie Solaria CP4230 and CP4220 projectors feature the Christie 4K+4 advantage, which includes maximum performance for 3D, Christie Pixel Track™ technology for optimum image quality, simple maintenance procedures and the lowest cost of ownership of any digital projector on the market.

~~~

hope the studios in turn follow and actually release more films in 4K - with the trend in film restoration/transferring in the 4K realm, the workflow should remain as such and downcoverting to 2K will become a thing of the past.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-09-2010, 08:48 PM:

quote: Jonathan Goeldner
the world’s first full feature screening in 4K resolution DLP Cinema

So now I'm confused: How is THIS the first? What about THE DAVINCI CODE?

BTW I just watched a short called "Pulse: A Stomp Experience" (or something like that). It was shot on 70mm. I saw it as a 4K DCP on a Sony projector and it looks AMAZING.

Lots of fine detail, even in fast-moving shots.

I think it played at ShoWest so some of you may have seen this already.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-09-2010, 09:05 PM:

Note they were stipulating the 4K DLP feature presentation. Note just 4K resolution.

Remember...no matter how amazing 4K may look...it is the resolution of 35mm...1.85. That is our bench mark?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-09-2010, 09:27 PM:

Yeah, but Steee-eeve...

Have you seen what most of us see in theatres? [Eek!]

We're not seeing 35mm at its full potential so, compared to what most people are seeing, 4K is something to write home about. Would I like to see even more detail, sure!

Before we get too hung up on the theoretical potential of 35mm, let's remember that the practical resolution of 35mm nowadays is limited to the resolution of a DI -- so seeing something digital nowadays is very much like seeing it in its native form -- 35mm projection just tends to add artifacts, whether from duplication, handling, mechanical issues or any combination of the above.

"That's the fact, Jack!"
(from STRIPES)

Okay, Steve -- I'm bracing myself.... LOL

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2010, 09:32 PM:

Manny...

What Steeeeve forgets all too often is that D-Cinema is still in it's infancy... The step towards 4K that he said will never happen is happenning and is a very positive step in the right direction. At least we might be gaining the 35mm quality that we once had... back again. Excepting laser DLP who knows what lies beyond 4K and when...

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-09-2010, 09:44 PM:

quote:
“The audience saw details in the 4K restoration that were unlike anything ever seen before,” said Brian Claypool, Senior Product Manager, Entertainment Solutions for Christie.

Except of course, Brian, the couple of hundred million people over the years who saw all that detail and MORE when they saw it in 35mm!

quote:
“It’s not an easy thing to showcase new technology to an audience of engineers and technicians who belong to every discipline of the film industry.

Especially when, in order to hype your own product, you insist on denegrating or in this case, just overlooking the fact that while this may look amazing for video -- it's amazing only relative to what DLP has looked like in the past, but not relative to what the source -- 35mm VistaVision film -- looked like and to which it can only EVER aspire to look as good as. It is never EVER going to look BETTER than the original; it can't, unless Christie and TI have been able to change the immutable laws of physics.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-09-2010, 09:48 PM:

But Maaaaannnnnnyyyyy those that are oogling over the 4K DLP are those that have also seen EK 35mm prints which DO hit the "theoretical" limits of 35mm film.

I absolutely agree that with the current state of crap film printing that 4K digital has a better chance at getting what was shot to John Q Public.

As for seeing "artifacts" of film reproducing 2K DIs...well garbage in, garbage out. 2K projection is heavily flawed...it artificially collapses the depth of the scene. The pleasing side-effect is the image appears crisp as all of the pixels are well defined. There is just less detail there.

And yes, Mark is right...I did not believe 4K DLP would come about...it is a financial loss. One thing was for sure at ShowEast this year...even though every DLP company had a 4K demo...they all were, very much, not pushing 4K...in fact, I'd say the opposite. "Its just for the biggest theatres" was a popular refrain. 4K should be for EVERY theatre and beyond 4K should be for the Biggest Theatres.

I also noted that the 4K demos for DLP were not all that impressive...actually, quite the opposite. One issue seemed to be the MTF of most of the current lenses is not up to 4K. I have no doubt that will get better as the chicken/egg are now out.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2010, 11:36 PM:

I donno Steve... Christie was taking orders for theirs at Sheweast...

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 11-10-2010, 12:22 AM:

Eeeeeevvvvveerrrrryyyyyyybody.

It just seems retrogressive to showcase 4K DLP of a Vistavision Motion Picture. Effectively, any comparison to 1:85 'should' technically be invalid. Now, comparing the 4K presentation to the resolution of horizontal 35mm might make more sense- and I'll bet both nuts it comes nowhere near that resolution.

P.S. Does this mean that those shitbox 2K filmouts will be a thing of the past?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2010, 05:54 AM:

What do you mean about 1.85 film comparisons being technically invalid? That is about the resolution of 4K digital. VistaVision should be higher, though you are comparing it to an older, and probably grainer film stock.

As to 4K orders...they all have the same time table for them (1Q 2011)...but I'm serious about the underselling (and it was noted by others). I can't recall ever seeing a new technology being so under-pushed.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-10-2010, 06:50 AM:

NONE of this adds up financially.

btw: where does this leave S.O.N.Y., the low-light-leader?? Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2010, 08:29 AM:

Nope...none of it adds up financially. And in the end, it is financially unsustainable. Think about a 100% digital cinema industry. Which projector company can survive on the minuscule numbers this industry will need on a year-to-year basis for new-builds and renovations? Who pays after the first 10-years?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-10-2010, 09:06 AM:

Regards to underselling; it's simple, they don't want you to stop buying the 2K projectors they are currently selling to wait for the 4K. I don't think the 4k versions will be in full production for some time.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-10-2010, 09:48 AM:

It may be unsustainable for the projector manufacturers to build in this hemisphere however with the mad dash to get factories built in China by Christie and the fact that NEC has always built in China where factories can be multi-purposed should help to make it sustainable for the long haul. Watch for BARCO to do something similar. All of these are multi purpose companieswho realize that to exist there has to be alable product... hence all of these companies manufacture a plethora of other commercial and industrial products.

As for T.I. loosing money... large corporations do typically loose money in some areas at different points in theor history but usually use it to their advantage tax wise. The manufacturing technology to make the DMD chips as well as the many other T.I. chips has no doubt resulted in spin offs that can be applied to other technologies it presently manufactures as well as making other future technology more easily accessable.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2010, 11:05 AM:

Barco too has a factory going in or is on line in China...however, like with Christie, it is to take the load off of the NA and Europe markets since there has been a short fall of projectors. Remember too, Barco supplies Kinoton and Cinemeccanica light engines as well as themselves so there are many mouths to feed.

Steve

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 11-10-2010, 02:40 PM:

quote: Manny Knowles
BTW I just watched a short called "Pulse: A Stomp Experience" (or something like that). It was shot on 70mm. I saw it as a 4K DCP on a Sony projector and it looks AMAZING.

"Pulse: A STOMP Odyssey" was filmed in 65mm with IMAX cameras. SONY also showed Chronos, another IMAX-sourced film at 2005's ShoWest on their SXRD 4K projector.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-12-2010, 03:15 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
NONE of this adds up financially.

Neither did DLP....at least not for the exhibitors, but that didn't seem to stop anybody.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-14-2010, 06:51 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
however, like with Christie, it is to take the load off of the NA and Europe markets

Steve... you aew way way too gullible. Don't believe it for a minute!

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-15-2010, 02:52 PM:

What's your point Mark? That they are moving the jobs to China? I don't disagree, just checking.

There is some final assembly of servers in Brazil and this has to do with import duties so that's maybe a factor.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-15-2010, 03:55 PM:

My point is that to be competitive with each other which they are not at this point in time... they all have to manufacture in China. This may also have to happen in order for these companies to survive once the market has been saturatred with equipment... that will not take very long to happen. Many of the large factories in China are multipurposed and can manufacture any of these companies products. Not totally true of the present factories in USA, Canada and Belgium.

Mark