Absolutely not. The adjustments are and always have been "shortest path": directly from the present value to the target value without driving the lens to mechanical stops as a waypoint.
Series I Barcos executed lens adjustments one value at a time (x, y, zoom, focus). In the worst case scenario this could take minutes, though usually it's more like 20 - 30 seconds.
Like Steve said, Series II Barcos do this much faster. A large part of the faster lens set times is due the Series II projectors driving all lens values simultaneusly (the rest is due the lens motors being faster than before).
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-05-2011, 03:57 PM:
Thanks Jussi. Do you know wether these machines have absolute position encoders on these adjustment axes?
I would think that on simple systems, a projector would at least have to do a homing cycle on power-on.
- Carsten
Posted by Chris Mosel (Member # 1451) on 02-05-2011, 05:22 PM:
What I thought to be lens issues turned out to be a bad "local keypad" on the side of the projector. Replacement of the keypad solved all my lens issues.
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 02-05-2011, 08:39 PM:
Ahh the Barco lens issue. Yes have been enjoying this for oh I'd say 2 years now. Any day now someone will get around to getting off their fat ass and fix this..... ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Me holding breath.....
Here's one fix that works... Don't turn off the projector......EVER!
Posted by Kris Verhanneman (Member # 5562) on 02-06-2011, 03:32 AM:
Brendan,
if you have that much troubles with your lens check out that one of the positions isn't at the edge of the lens.
The problem that many encounter are linked to that.
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-06-2011, 08:46 AM:
The Barco lenses do not have position sensors. The home procedure sends the lens to each axis's end stop and sets the internal step counter to zero. After that the projector stores the current step count of the lens and the step counts for each preset, just moving the stepper motor to the new step count when you change presets. If you did't do this on installation you will probably see your lens step counts are nutty - high or negative numbers - and you won't be able to home the lens without redoing all the lens files.
You may have a problem if you have the lens at or very close any of its stops for any preset. The lens can get "out of whack" a few step counts, if it tries to go past the end stop you get a yellow light error. The projector still works fine but that error message and yellow light keep popping up. Power cycling the projector or homing the lens usually corrects this for a while. Not much you can do about the zoom except reset the lens a bit off the stop and live with the image size. Focus should be moved away from the stop by adjusting all 3 Scheimpflug adjusters the same way and then adjusting all preset lens files. Lens shift hitting the end stop requires a small change in the projector angle and redoing the lens files.
This same "out of whack" issue will give you focus, zoom, or shift errors after a longish time. Rehome the lens and this should be corrected.
Sometimes the projector just goes stupid and forgets lens or screen files. I don't know how or why. usually a power cycle brings them back, but it's only happened to me a few times and usually on B projectors.
If you have Doremi servers I suggest using the "send projector macro" command in Doremi's macro editor rather than "set projector channel". Barco and Doremi both say the channel select function is fine but I've seen several bizzaro problems with it which were eliminated by using the named macro command. The projector macro name on the projector preset must be exactly the same as the one you call in the server - case matters. I've heard that underscores and dashes should be avoided in these projector macro names if you call them from a Doremi server but I haven't personally seen a problem with that.
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 02-06-2011, 11:04 PM:
Yeah yeah heard all that before for the last two years. I have tried ensuring the lens is not near the precious micro switches. Hmm funny that it happens on all 60 of our projectors in the field. what a coincidence....
We are going to try sacrificing a small Goat next week. Will let you know how that goes.
Good luck with that microswitch theory!
Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-07-2011, 12:01 AM:
What version of software are you running?
I had the same frustrating experience until I found out about 14.01 if I remember the number right. Not everyone seems to know about this.
It's definitely fixed the problem at both my locations.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-07-2011, 10:57 AM:
Brendan: What does Barco say about all your sixty machines not performing to spec?
- Carsten
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 02-07-2011, 01:23 PM:
They say urr arrr urrr maybe ummm arrr ohhhh arrrr arr ummm arrrr hey what's that over there?
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-08-2011, 07:10 PM:
Why don't you kick their asses then?
-Carsten
Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 02-09-2011, 01:02 PM:
Too much effort and they already know very well about this problem.
I guess its not the end of the world as it probably only happens a few times a year on each projector. Usually due to power surges. There are a couple of projectors that have never done it to me oddly enough so maybe electronics power filtration is the go.
I just recommend as part of training, projectionists know how to reset and save the lens files. Takes only a minute to fix.
Posted by Arnoud Edens (Member # 5938) on 02-27-2011, 02:55 AM:
(First of all, this is my first post here, so 'hi' to everyone ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)
I've seen some problems recently with lens settings on series 2 Barco's; especially on the 32B model.
Had the problem on 2 different machines. Both of them seemed to trash their lens files every now and then.
On loading a lens file, instead of changing to the correct lens setting, they would only home the lens. (Like in the home and return, but without the return)
After this, the lens file seemed to be damaged or lost as well. Switching to another lens file worked fine, but then switching back to the first, the lens would go back to the home position.
Last week however, Barco released a firmware upgrade (at least for the 32B model) version 1.5.56 that should fix this problem.
This update should also fix another lens problem on the B models, where the lens step counting sometimes failed a bit, which was resulting in some small drift in lens position over time.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 06-27-2014, 04:09 PM:
It has been 1216 days since the last post.
Posted by Thomas Evans (Member # 8314) on 06-27-2014, 04:09 PM:
I tested this today as I have issues with the Barco 32B lens change
Barco Series II Lens Function Change Duration (DP4K-32B)
Ran the following test with the lamp on, douser open and content paused on screen
Benchmark tests
4K Flat 2D to 4K Scope 2D = 23sec
4K Scope 2D to 4K Flat 2D = 23sec
NB: image size changes to match relevant aspect ratio, image zooms out, image focuses.
Alterations
Confirmed lens installed was same match as lens selected in Lens Parameters = correct
Ran the lens Homing and return function to re calibrate the lens
4K Flat 2D to 4K Scope 2D = 23sec
4K Scope 2D to 4K Flat 2D = 15sec
The speed of the scope to flat change has improved
Amended lens settings for both flat and scope and saved to relevant function
4K Flat 2D to 4K Scope 2D = 23sec
4K Scope 2D to 4K Flat 2D = 15sec
No improvement after changing the lens settings
Re-loaded saved lens settings
No improvement after re-loading lens settings
summary
The lens change takes approx 23secs from flat to scope and 15sec from scope to flat.
When changing the image disappears for 2 secs and re-appears filling approx 50% of the screen
Next the image zooms out while moving slightly off centre before filling the screen correctly
Next the image focuses, this stage takes the most time.
All of the above is visible on screen as we only have 8 seconds blank from the house logo to the rating.
The same happens in 3D functions also.
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-27-2014, 05:29 PM:
The thing I hate most about my Barco DP2K-32B is the lens. I have one of the InVision, and I hate pretty much everything about it.
Not only does it vibrate, but I also find it necessary to constantly fiddle about with lens settings. Especially focus, which tends to drift over time. Eventually, the situation worsens to the point where writing over an existing file has no effect. At that point, my last resort is to delete all of the lens files and start from scratch.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2014, 05:41 PM:
Everyone had that focus drift problem with the InVision lenses running on .89" projectors or if your Invivion lens also focus's for a larger projector. The only ones that actually work are the ones for the NC-3200's and NC3240's. And I have even had to fix those twice now out of the box because the position encoder and motor were not set correctly and the lens wouldn't zoom all the way. They obviously have ZERO quality control at that plant! The two large NEC's actually slide the lens mount to focus. So there is just the zoom to get working right and it doesn't drift.
Strong took back all of the .89" InVision lenses they sold in the field and replaced them with Minolta or Fujinon's. You should squawk loudly at Barco or the dealer that sold it to you and see if they'll do the same for you. Not one of those lenses works correctly and focus will actually drift out of focus during a 2 hour show!! The glass in them is very good though.
Mark
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2014, 06:01 PM:
I've been through this with Barco. Depending on the lens size you need will depend on what manufacturer will make the lens. For example, if you have an Invision, there is no such Minolta equivalent. Basically, you're stuck with it, and yes they drift badly.
Christie uses 100% Minolta lenses.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-27-2014, 06:35 PM:
I've seen that, but I assumed it was normal for the lens. I don't know much of optic but some lens will require a great focus adjustment when switching flat/scope on a constant height screen. Some others are faster.
Unless Barco have slowed down the focus motor, I'd say it's normal.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2014, 07:57 PM:
That's bullshit Brad. Minolta or Fujinon makes all focal lengths of DLP lenses. Just look towards NEC or Christie for the list, and there are some very long throw and some very short throw lenses available from NEC that aren't even on the standard list. Christie does the same and they have lenses all the way down to 1.0 ratio.
What it amounts to is Barco is unwilling to commission Minolta or Fuji to make a run of lenses for their projectors, sure it's dam expensive. The Nvision lenses from Strong were ~$500 cheaper then the other makers lenses. They say they brought them in to ease the back orders during crunch time... it may have for a short time till they had to replace them all anyway.
Mark
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2014, 08:46 PM:
Mr. Mark-I'm-Going-To-Skim-The-Post-And-Then-Call-Bullshit,
Where did I say that Minolta didn't make ALL focal lengths of lenses? In fact, where DID I say that Christie uses 100% Minolta lenses. Also my entire post above was Barco specific.
What I said was with Barco you're stuck with whatever lens manufacturer made the particular focal length lens that you need for your particular auditorium. You can't just complain at them that Invision lenses suck and get a Minolta version of that lens. (Believe me, I've tried.) This is because Barco only offers that one option, despite having different part numbers stating otherwise.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2014, 08:06 AM:
Mark, on a Barco "B" series, with the exception of the 4K specific InVision lenses (just three sizes), the projector lens mount handles focus...which has been the source of the "B" series image shakes.
Brad, there are SOME lens sizes where Minolta and Fujinon lenses are available in the same size...case in point...the 1.4-2.05 and I think the next size larger. I have a complex that has one of each. The problem is that one doesn't have a choice to use just Minolta and I agree (and have stated in other threads).
If you ask the typical installation tech and put 10 lenses of the same size from each manufacturer to install (thirty lenses total)...10 from minolta, 10 from Fuji, 10 from InVision...all the same size. In those piles represents their good/bad quality level. You had to bet your reputation on the end results and you can only select ONE lens for this one critical installation...you can't go back if there is a problem...which pile of lenses would you grab from?
I don't know any tech that wouldn't go to the Minolta pile. While they have a bad one every once in a while...but your odds are so much better with them. I've had excellent from all three too but you can almost bank on the Minolta. I wish Minolta would make some 4K specific lenses too.
I'm wondering if the new Barco "B" lens mount does a better job holding focus. I think you'll find that the focus drift on the Barco "B" is dependent on down angle and how the mount flexes due to its need to move for focus. It has to see-saw a bit and dance that fine line of movability and precision.