Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: PS3 3D on a Barco Series 1 w/ Dolby 3D

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Posted by Alex Shultz (Member # 5027) on 02-05-2011, 12:53 AM:

I'm trying to find a way to run a 3D game on a PS3 in to a Barco Series 1 projector with Dolby 3D. I'm not even sure where to start looking for information about how to do it. Does anyone have any ideas?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-05-2011, 08:32 AM:

How much money do you want to spend?

Not knowing the PS3...I'm presuming that it outputs the 3D in an over/under or side-by-side fashion? If so...you will need a box like the Doremi Dimension 3D to convert your single HDMI feed into a dual HDSDI with the images broken apart so each output has a single 1920x1080 stream.

Then, to address the color that is normally done in the DCinema player, you will need the Cine-Tal Dolby color corrector...where you will use the conversion matrix values from the DCinema server to also apply the same matrix to alternative content (it has settings for the different color spaces too). The output of the Cine-Tal will then feed to your DCinema projector all Dolby 3D color corrected.

However, since your PS3 is likely ouputting 60p, you will need to use a suitable flash rate like 4:2 (double flash). The DFC100 only knows 24, 60 and 72 Hz rates so 60 is your choice. If you have a later Series 1 Barco that has the Barco colorwheel, things are easier since you can set the sync delay custom for each Macro so long as the wheel can sync up to the frequency being offered. Then select the highest flash rate the projector can handle without cropping (EFIB boards being the worst).

However, you will find that the price tag of the two boxes mentioned above to be much more than you are likely planning to spend...but it CAN be done.

I have already heard of other boxes coming on line in 2011-2012 that will deal with the 3D inputs to suitable outputs but I only know of the Doremi and Cine-Tal boxes at this time.

What would really be the ideal future for the Dolby 3D system is to get the PROJECTOR doing the 3D color correction...it is silly for it to be done in the server/player. The TI engine is capable of doing color correction, it knows when each frame is being displayed...That is where the correction should be done as it could be automatic by virtue of shooting the colors to begin with (once the correction factor is known to the projector for each eye in the Dolby system). But for now, it has to be done externally.

Likewise, it would be nice if the projector manufacturers could come up with the Over/Under or Side-by-side consumer 3D styles for the DVI inputs that all DCinema projectors have.

Dimension 3D

Dolby 3D Color Corrector

Posted by Alex Shultz (Member # 5027) on 02-05-2011, 09:03 AM:

Hmmm...

Well, it sounds like it is going to be much more involved than I had hoped. Also much more expensive. It would be nice if the PS3 could do that color space conversion since the projector doesn't.

Well, maybe something will change somewhere as new stuff comes out.

Thanks, Steve.

Posted by Kris Verhanneman (Member # 5562) on 02-05-2011, 09:08 AM:

We once used this thing to get a live 3D event on our screens.
datacasting sensio 3D Only problem for you is it's working on HD SDI signals.

You have 1 input HDSDI and 2 outputs (left and right eye).
Used it on an expand 3D kit and you can configure the color adaption in this module.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-05-2011, 12:34 PM:

I am not 100% sure but I think Blu Rays with PS3 are sent out at full resolution 1080p 24 frames per seconds per eye. Games are limited to 720p to ensure a decent framerate.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-05-2011, 12:43 PM:

The PS3 uses shutter glasses like all 3DTV so far. Some games are 720p, others 1080p (Gran Turismo 5, for instance) at 120Hz.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-05-2011, 02:39 PM:

The PS3 would do a bad job if it was outputing framesequential 3D at 120Hz - because that's none of the supported modes of current 3D-TVs.

The PS3 uses frame-packing. You need an external converter to make frame-sequential 3D for a DCI projector from that Signal. The Doremi unit mentioned above is quite expensive - but there is a new 3D-XL Box from Optoma due to be out within the next weeks that might be able to do it a lot cheaper - around 300 US$. They are still working on firmware features and formats, though.
This also might turn out to be a very cheap box to convert 3D-TV side-by-side to DCI-compatible sequential 3D.
It's not a professional device and one will have to wait and see how the signal quality ist. But for a PS3 and gaming...

- Carsten

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-05-2011, 03:41 PM:

Sorry, my bad. I meant to infer that it is displayed at 120Hz, not transmitted that way (nothing transmits at 120Hz yet that I know of).

Using that box to convert into sequential frames would probably need to transmit at 120Hz, though. It would likely cause a bit of lag which is unacceptable in gaming applications.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-05-2011, 03:55 PM:

Yes, the lag issue could be a problem of all external converters, but maybe they get away with one or two frames.

There is a couple of 120Hz consumer/presentation beamers that accept 120Hz 3D in 720p. That's the cheapest way to do 3D on an entry level DLP projector. They don't do double or triple flashing internally like DCI systems.

But so far you can only feed this kind of signal from a PC graphics card. Therefore, Optoma (one manufacturer of these beamers) developed the 3D-XL as an external addon converter for PS3-3D, 3D BluRay and 3D-TV signals.

- Carsten

Posted by Anders Nordentoft-Madsen (Member # 3334) on 02-07-2011, 08:16 AM:

I have also been looking into this. The only solution AFAIK is to use the Doremi D-dimension box. This will do all the colorspace correction and framerate ditto. However it doesn't support HDCP, so in order to play 3D PS3 game you will need at special Debug PS3 with the ability to turn of HDCP. Another concern is price..it's in the 5000 £ range...

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-07-2011, 10:17 AM:

The optoma 3D-XL will do it - at a fraction of the cost for the Doremi. The colour correction needs to be done otherwise through a suitable channel preset.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 02-07-2011, 10:34 AM:

The Optoma 3d-xl will not do the color correction necessary for Dolby 3D.

3D-XL converts hdmi 1.4a 3d from frame packed or side-by-side into 120hz 720p frame sequential suitable for use on single chip DLP projectors equipped with DLP-Link 3D ready technology.

It can also isolate an individual 1080p right eye or left eye signal. Theoretically, two of them could be used in tandem to extract an individual left eye and right eye stream. You could use this in a dual DCI projector set up, running at 60hz with passive filters.

It has a vesa port for external syncing of shutter glasses, which is advantageous for those of us who dislike DLP-link. With a bit of clever engineering, you might be able to adapt the vesa signal to drive a Real-D z screen. But your digital projector would have to be able to accept and display 120hz directly, without any processing, which I don't think DCI projectors can do.

It is rumored that an upcoming product called 3dTheatre will be able to extract individual eyes and perform the Dolby 3D color correction, but that product is still in development.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-07-2011, 10:53 AM:

I guess for gaming you can easily live without the Dolby 3D color correction.

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-07-2011, 02:48 PM:

There's some interest here in 3D satellite events, there was a NHL hockey game a few weeks ago for example. We couldn't find a solution for a Real-D setup.
I can't see any way to activate 3D for any combination of the Barco DVI inputs so the HDMI 3D signal would have to be converted/scaled to whatever format the cinema server 3D is - dual SDI 4:2:2 10 bit @24fps I think. I think the projector would do color correction as usual.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-07-2011, 03:21 PM:

For RealD, the Doremi converter should be okay. You will have to apply double flash settings on the projector, since it won't do triple-flash on broadcast frame rates.

There have been quite a few live 3D broadcasts to cinemas during the soccer world cup. As far as I know they used more or less consumer type satellite receivers with HDMI output. So on these events a HDMI side-by-side to framesequential HD-SDI converter like the doremi would have been in use.

Has anyone supervised one of these public viewings and seen the hardware?

I expect to see a lot more cheaper solutions in the future, a couple of boxes have been announced.

- Carsten

Posted by Kris Verhanneman (Member # 5562) on 02-08-2011, 05:41 AM:

Carsten,

we have played the soccer in 3D.
It's the same brand of équipment like in my previous post.
More info on the hardware can be found here

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-08-2011, 07:27 PM:

Thanks Kris. Always wanted to know what sort of gear is used for live events. Looks expensive, though. I guess you didn't buy but rent it?

Also found this device on their site:

http://www.datacast.com/products/bytype/broadcast-video/pro-cinema-cache-server

- Carsten

Posted by Trevor Cable (Member # 6086) on 02-10-2011, 07:13 PM:

I believe the cine-tal Davio can do both the color correction and the HDMI consumer checkerboard or LCD scanline conversion to dual HD-SDI. They (cine-tal) told me it will work with RealD and my Barco DP-1500. I didn't ask about Dolby and I haven't tested it. Just thought I'd point this one out. I believe it's between $4500-6000 depending on options.