Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Any Hard Digital Screen Numbers?

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-13-2011, 03:28 PM:

When the conversion to cyan tracks was being put into place, I recall they kept pushing the date-certain for cyan-only prints up further and further before they would actually go fully to all-cyan inventories. They also prolonged the full switch by using the high-magenta interim tracks to ease the transition. The reason I heard why they keep holding back full cyan conversion was because the studios needed something like at least 90%-95% penetration of red readers before they could go exclusively cyan. Loosing any more than 10% would hurt their bottom line.

Does anyone have any stats on the actual number of digital conversions that are in place vs. total US screen count? Where are we in terms of penetration for the whole country? And of course the second question, if we are not near that magic 90% conversion, won't that determine how long studios will keep supplying 35mm prints? Wouldn't the same motivation still apply -- simply that they can't afford to eliminate any more than 10% of the screens on which to play their product?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-13-2011, 08:36 PM:

It's surprisingly hard to get updated numbers. Even the Boxoffice and NATO websites don't have the info (or at least, not easily found). On Wikipedia I found this:

quote:
As of June, 2010, there are close to 16,000 digital cinema screens, with over 5000 of them being stereoscopic setups.

...but it has no reference, so who knows where that came from.

If true though, that would mean the U.S. is about 50% converted by now.

For what it's worth, our film booker predicted to me last summer that film would be around for five years, maybe less. We were already having trouble getting film prints from some companies even then.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-13-2011, 09:07 PM:

Texas Instruments would know how many chipsets they shipped to the 3 vendors.

Deduct 10% for failures and not installed units. Louis

Posted by Jussi Siponen (Member # 5572) on 03-14-2011, 01:12 AM:

Media Salles publishes the European Cinema Yearbook - section
Digital Cinemas Worldwide has numbers on digital sites (cinemas) and screens.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 03-14-2011, 02:17 AM:

I stopped keeping track after they topped 1,000.

I will say that the majority of installs have been made in the last couple of years. It took about a decade just to get to the 1,000 mark. It was pathetically slow going those first few years.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-14-2011, 06:01 AM:

So, we are at or about 21% in North America. I actually think the installs for all but the majors is going to slow down in 2012...the VPF deals are going away and that is really going to put the breaks on. Starting in October of this year, the VPF deals, I'm hearing are going to be small enough that it will no longer cover the cost of the typical installation.

3D fueled most of my installations and 3D's bubble has burst...most are now reporting that 3D does not increase sales enough to justify the added expense...especially if you add in the cost of digifying on top of 3D.

-Steve

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-14-2011, 11:11 AM:

The site dcinematoday.com had databases on movie theaters equipped with digital projection, but I think they may have removed access to it. I can't find the links to it; anyone wishing to view the material had to register. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

I kept up with tracking digital projection installs when Carmike was doing their conversion. And even there dcinematoday was lagging behind what Carmike would make available on their own web site listings. It's still kind of funny to see Carmike's theaters listing DTS or Dolby Digital logos on d cinema shows (sometimes both logos together) when neither process is really being used.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-14-2011, 12:21 PM:

It will be in interesting to see what happens in the next year or so. I suspect that most of the installations that have already been made have been in newer theatres, which presumably have modern sound systems, larger booths, and ample electrical and exhaust facilities.

Many of the remaining theatres are likely older and will be more difficult (and, therefore, more time- and labor- intensive) than the first batch of installations. They will also likely require additional upgrades before [dlp]

can be installed.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-17-2011, 12:26 PM:

The film company had no cost savings with the conversion to cyan soundtracks. They have an extreme cost savings with the conversion to digital cinema. So the cyan comparison probable isn't a very good one. You would have to go all the way back to incorporating the sound track in to the film rather than on a synchronized record to have a fair comparison. The film companies everyone meet that deadline. I don't know if the theaters did or not.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-17-2011, 06:42 PM:

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=2127

'Worldwide, DLP Cinema screen counts showing Hollywood content rose by 67 percent for 2D and 97 percent for 3D, to grand totals of 28,036 and 18,637 screens respectively.'

That leaves out Sony installs, which shouldn't be too complicated to find on the net, as they have a large number of chain installs and fewer single screen installations.

Note that '97 percent for 3D' doesn't mean that TI DLP has 97% of the 3D DCI market. That passage means 'increases in 2010', that is, 3D DLP installs nearly doubled in 2010. I'm not sure though how TI get's the 3D numbers from their sales alone or how they deal with mixed 2D/3D screens.

- Carsten

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-23-2011, 01:06 PM:

the 18,000 + figure exceeds the 50% of the screens the USA market is that here or North America?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-23-2011, 09:53 PM:

Flawed data.

btw: the combination of cyan track & mylar reduced the cost of 35mm significantly. Printing now at 3000 fpm. Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-24-2011, 02:07 PM:

Ron that figure is worldwide (and out of date now). As Steve noted above, it's somewhere in the 20%-range for the US.

I'm sure some more accurate figures will come out at CinemanCon next week.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-25-2011, 11:39 AM:

The figure I posted was for North America not world wide according to what the article said.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-25-2011, 10:24 PM:

Steve I'm quite curious about the word "digifying" maybe the word is a typo or just a word I am totally unfamiliar with but "digifying" isn't in any dictionary that I can find. I suppose you might have meant dignifying but knowing you have a much deeper vocabulary than me I was just curious about the word. I am not trying to be smart ass I am just curious!

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 03-25-2011, 10:52 PM:

Probably the most important number is how many locations a particular movie plays digitally. Recently a 3400+ location 2d movie played approx. 33% digital on the break while a 3400+location 3d movie played approx. 70% digital.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-25-2011, 10:57 PM:

3D movies would be doing better lately if the movies themselves were better. A bad movie in 3D is still a bad movie.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-26-2011, 12:54 AM:

Well yeah, that gets back to that old saying, "you can't polish a turd."

But the bean counters are still going to punt endless numbers of sequels, remakes, send-ups of TV shows, super hero movies and anything else based on a previous source to sucker the fools in past the box office.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-26-2011, 10:28 AM:

Oh I'm almost sick to death of sequels and remakes. TV shows turned to big screen and just plain stupid movies. In one degree or another that has been the same it is just more of the same now.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-26-2011, 12:29 PM:

'Digifying' ? Here's my smart ass comment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neologism

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 03-26-2011, 03:00 PM:

To get back on topic. That 70% 3d I mention were all digital as it was from a studio that does not support film 3d. Since most of theaters that have started to add digital are going 100% digital (for many they have to in order to get VPFs), you could assume that we will be at 70% digital in less than 12-18 mos for movies that play on the national release date.

To get off topic, whatever brings people to come see a movie at the theater is okay with me.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2011, 06:05 PM:

My numbers are not consistent with you. We will not even be near 50% in the next 18-months. Those that are looking for VPFs are indeed accelerating their pace (we are doing two complexes, thus far, by this summer due to the VPF deal)...however we have others that have done digital for 3D only and have stated that they are doing NONE this year...maybe one 2D next year.

The fact of the matter is...digital doesn't bring any more customers in...it is a net (financial) loss, at this point.

As the VPF deals vanish (they are already starting to get less attractive)...I predict a digital slow-down.

And digifying...that is my word (or I have used it without prior knowledge of others using it)...any by extension, digification is one I use too.

-Steve

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-27-2011, 12:41 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
The fact of the matter is...digital doesn't bring any more customers in...

Are there really people who thought it WOULD bring more customers in?

I will say that there are at least a half-dozen films, maybe more, that we were able to get 2 or 3 weeks sooner because we are digital. So, films play sooner = higher gross, so from that standpoint it does help. Otherwise -- no. I never thought it would. My guess is by this time, about 90% of our audience has forgotten that we even got a new projector (if they even knew it in the first place).

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 03-27-2011, 03:41 AM:

They don't care for projector, sound systems etc, not all, but very most....I go to movies often, and most of the time I have some complains, because presentation is low on my standards. But one time, that isss sooo obvious, whole dialogue was on the left channel, except on center, I did spoke with some people in cinema in row next to me, nobody even notticed that....

As for dci, it won't be changed like cyan, I don't know why people always compare transfer from silver to cyan with 35mm to digital, cyan was just $600 upgrade to projector and nothing more, dci is something wayyy more expencive.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 03-27-2011, 08:50 PM:

For the top 2500 or so locations, the VPFs are a no-brainer to go after. The VPFs plus booth labor savings pretty much pay for the conversion. I can't find a top chain that has not put plans in motion to make the conversion. What major chain or any 15+ chain is not doing a full conversion? The top 10 chains are approx. 1800 locations.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-28-2011, 04:57 AM:

The vpf only makes sense if you believe that the full term will be paid in full. I'm sorry, but I don't have that much faith in the studios fulfilling any contract. (This is starting to have religious overtones.) Louis

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-28-2011, 08:05 AM:

In any case, the VPF only helps with the initial installation. After that, the theatre owners are still responsible for long-term maintenance and upgrades, which will no doubt be more expensive than with 35mm. I still don't see the business case, unless one believes that "alternative content" and such will actually do something to increase attendance and/or justify higher ticket prices. Or, as Mike said, if DLP allows one to book titles that might not otherwise be available (which would also have the potential to increase attendance).

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-28-2011, 11:22 AM:

Steve they weren't my numbers and I didn't post them I just re-posted the figure in the article for North America. I think the real point is that there aren't any hard numbers on who many are in the works or how many have been done.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-30-2011, 03:45 AM:

An article in this week's Hollywood Reporter states that are 16,231 digital screens in the United States (8,963 3D-capable), and another 23,511 digital screens abroad (17,059 3D-capable). It doesn't say when those counts were valid through, but it does say about 100 digital screens are being installed weekly.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-30-2011, 09:24 AM:

Edward are they saying where that information is coming from? If it is NATO or any source for that matter in is rather unusual and contentious Digital Cinema extend roll out it may or may not be accurate.

The numbers you post suggest that when those committed screens are installed Digital will have most of the theaters in the country. If it is NATO and the CBG then the completion date is Sept. 30 next year for VFP's. Rock and a hard place for someone either do it or go out of business when the film companies either remove the paying for the movie and it being inside the flow of income. The print cost well go way up when there are only a few hundred being made.

Sorry Steve about the other post you weren't talking to me I realized this when I read back though.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-30-2011, 10:51 AM:

Inspecific about where the numbers come from. Sorry. There is some mentions about VPFs, and John Fithian is quoted as saying he expects 30,000-32,000 screens to be digital by the end of 2013.

Article can be found at http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/evolving-upscale-movie-experience-170509 but one has to be a subscriber (or know a way to hack those things) to read more than the first paragraph.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-30-2011, 04:17 PM:

Current US and worldwide digital screen numbers backed up by NATO:

http://www.natoonline.org/pdfs/JF%20SPEECH%20CINEMACON%202011%20-%20Distribution%20Version.pdf

'Here in the U.S., we have nearly 16,000 digital screens out of a total of 39,000. Almost 9,000 of those digital screens are equipped to project in 3D. We will add thousands more this year.'

- Carsten