Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: CP-200

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-11-2011, 01:35 PM:

Anyone hooked up D-cinema server audio to a CP-200? I'm looking for suggestions...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-11-2011, 02:14 PM:

DMA8/DMA8 Plus...pretty easy.

-Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2011, 09:20 PM:

Assuming you're not using a DMA-8 the DTS 6 channel interface card works well. It was reccomended to me by several on this site. It is also easy to automate and costs about ~50 bucks.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 04-11-2011, 10:41 PM:

So Mark, are you saying that you can use the DTS 6 channel interface card as a D/A convertor?

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 04-11-2011, 11:51 PM:

I think that depends on whether your server has a 6 channel analog output or a digital output.
We just did an install with a CP200 and DTS. We were keeping the film along with the digital, and we wanted to keep the DTS for the 35mm. Our GDC server has an analog output that went into the DTS input on the CP200. We then realized that the booth kids couldn't be trusted to replug the DTS when they would run 35mm, so we put in a CP650 and Dolby Digital for the 35mm.If you have an analog output you can go into the same 6 channel input card that you used for DTS.
The DTS board isn't a D/A converter. If you only have a digital output on your server you'll need an outboard unit.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-12-2011, 10:02 AM:

The problem is getting 6 channel analog sound into the CP200, we have a D/A converter. The CP200 was not designed for this: the sub and surround channels are derived from film optical and magnetic sources with a complicated signal path and limited gain adjustability. Installing a DA20 with one is a big job requiring updated cards and backplane mods, it's been a decade or two since I've done it.
I have yet to confirm that this one has a DA-20 installed. My reading of the DTS manual indicates that the CP200 must have a DA20 already installed to use a DTS6D, and that the DTS relay card is just inserted in the DA20 cabling.
After a lot of looking at diagrams and installation manuals yesterday: if the system has a DA20, I think I can put an Odyssey switch card (I have one) connected where the DA20 would be in the adapter cables. The 35mm projector is being removed.
If there's no DA20 I think a modern processor is needed, the mods are just not worth the trouble on an antique, assuming the required cards are even available.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-12-2011, 11:24 AM:

All one has to do is do the signal insertion on JM11/21 just like for DTS or SRD
you will need the 560 for the sub acess again just like the way the da20 does

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-12-2011, 07:18 PM:

Really Dave? Have you seen the AFI/Silver Pictures on this web site...do you see what that CP200 is working with? TWO DTS XD10s, TWO DA20s, a DMA8, DP564, DP572, Dubbers, A/V sources...and the list goes on and on.

You should have the Cat 517/560 cards but that is about it. A DMA8 Plus is a drop in after that. The DTS board (D567, if memory serves) is great if you have an analog version of the audio...which the USL DAX602 can generate for you (with the right pinout on the DB25, if memory serves). The choices are a-plenty.

Now, if you are not going to have film anymore...I do tend to agree, replacing it with a dedicated DCinema sound processor (CP750, JSD100, DCP300...etc) (or even a DSP based A/V product, like the QSC basis) would be a more logical step into the future.

-Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-16-2011, 05:51 AM:

Steve,

Just a thought though... I'm curious why a decent or high end audio router feeding a modern processor wouldn't have been spec'd into a large system like that? As much as I love the CP-200 by today's standards it is antiquated and may not even be servicable in the near future... Even the CSP-1200 excells a CP-200 in many aspects... A router would also offer greater future expansion ability as well as the ability to combine balanced and unbalanced sources at any given levels to any desired destinations extremely cleanly.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-16-2011, 07:26 AM:

If 35mm will be removed, why bother with the CP200 at all? I would only keep one of these if the film projector stays in the booth.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-16-2011, 07:37 AM:

Effectively, the system at the AFI/Silver is a rather extensive audio router. If you look at the pictures...you'll see Panastereo MP64s fitted with Line Amp cards to make 4x1 selectors (6 or 12-channel wide). The CP200 has complete control over them so it chooses what source feeds and eventually gets played. There are four film projectors connected and the primary source is indeed film, still, by a 90/10 margin.

As for antiquated...perhaps...there is a full CP200 sitting on the shelf at the AFI to guarantee it won't go down very easily and we can repair most of the cards. Then again, the CP200 has yet to be a source of problems...in fact, it is often the source of solutions to problems.

Economically, even today, it would be hard to set up a DSP system that has the the channel capacity that this system has (remember, everything is either 6-channels or 8 (12) channels wide and we rarely need that many outputs...a lot of DSP systems have equal inputs/outputs.

Sound wise...again, it will be hard to top it in a theatre environment. The Cat 517/560s use some of the best VCAs and output devices.

Theatres 2 and 3 DO use Panastereo CSP1200/CSP4600 combinations since neither 70mm nor 4-film projectors were required. However, they are not nearly as flexible as the CP200...even now. The Panas are indeed a little quieter though. Our power supply upgrade, however, significantly lowers the CP200's noise level (especially on the hum side but also on the hiss...we get a rock stable +/- 14V as well as 24V). We are even using an LED based pilot lamp so that won't burn out anytime soon. Despite what Tony said in another thread, the CP200, updated is quieter than the CP65. The CP65, unless you have the rare Studio version, does not use the best output section on L,C,R and Ls channels. Rs is actually quieter and lower distortion than Ls owing to the Cat 441 using the same output section as the CP200's Cat 517...the Cat 242 goes back to the CP55 and was effectively unchanged except on the "Mag/Aux" input stuffing of the Capacitors/resistors.

I reserve the CP200 now for 70mm (magnetic) and more than 2-projectors. I would not install one in a facility that does not meet the 70mm requirement, period.

-Steve