This is topic First hint at end of 35mm film distribution for Disney in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-01-2011, 06:37 PM:
 
This was posted on my Facebook today and I thought it significent enough to share. If Disney barks for making the post go ahead and delete it.

Mark
________________________________________________________________

Dear Exhibitor:

At the end of this month I conclude 40 years in exhibition and
distribution. I do not want to make this transition without sharing my deep concern with you. Some of you are among the dwindling number still playing only 35mm prints, apparently without plans to migrate to digital cinema. Others of you have converted only a few screens. (For those of you who are in the majority who have committed to conversion, congratulations and you can stop reading!)

The window of opportunity is closing for you to take advantage of our VPF contributions to convert to digital cinema. At the same time, 35mm print costs are rising as suppliers grapple
with falling volumes and soaring input costs such as silver and oil. (Film stock costs are up about 20% in just the past year.) I can't predict when, but we may reach a point when it is no
longer economic for us to supply film prints on the same terms we have in the past, or at all.

Likewise, it may become uneconomic for our suppliers to remain in the 35mm print business.

Under these circumstances, if you intend to remain a long term player in the theatrical exhibition business, why take the risk of the eroding economics and questionable prospects for 35mm? The question is particularly timely and urgent when you can still take advantage of limited-time distributor-subsidized programs to convert to digital cinema.

I urge you, as a friend in exhibition, not to miss the best opportunity you will ever have to upgrade. For the sake of your business and the moviegoers that we serve, I urge you make the
move to digital, and do it now.

Very truly yours,

Chuck Viane

500 S. Buena Vista St., Burbank, CA 91521-1208

Tel 818.560.5900 Fax 818.841.6847

chuck.viane@disney.com
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-01-2011, 07:29 PM:
 
Quite interesting. What (asking a general question here, not directed at Mark...) are the Drive-In's gonna do with this: find ways to do digital or close down and sell their land off?

..and along with "mom and pop" cinemas?

..gonna be interesting to find out .. - Monte
 

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Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 07-01-2011, 08:34 PM:
 
I received this e-mail letter directly from Disney today.

I couldn't decide if it was for real or a hoax.
But since it appears that others have gotten it also,
I guess it is real.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2011, 08:53 PM:
 
He's just saying the same thing John Fithian has been saying, except without guessing at an end date for film.

The ones who have converted, or who have plans to get converted, are the ones who want to stay in the business. There are some who have resigned to the fact that when film stops, they will close -- or maybe wait out some opportunities for used digital equipment.

Then there's a group of naysayers who think digital is just a fad and that clearer heads will prevail and film will make a comeback. These are probably people who are still listening to cassette tapes, thinking that the CD fad will end soon.
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 07-01-2011, 09:35 PM:
 
Yes thank God the reign of Compact Disc is finally nearly over!
Now I can enjoy my record's and tapes in peace!

Still not buying the film is over thing.Need to wait for better digital deals on equipment anyway!The last possible second is the only way for us silly diehards to go digital.

The film projectors will stay right where they are next to the in case filum makes a comeback!
We don't play Disney stuff anyway

As a single screen we will get a D Cinema machine when we can afford it but it is not clear if we really should though?

I hope we can.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2011, 11:15 PM:
 
Well...our film projector is still there all right, but it hasn't projected anything for an audience since June 16 of last year. I still turn it on once in a while to keep the gears lubed. It looks kind of lonely over there.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-02-2011, 12:15 AM:
 
....lonely, but still loyal to be used again since they've earned their place in this industry.
 

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Posted by Burleigh Ibbott (Member # 3917) on 07-02-2011, 08:33 AM:
 
Well some films have been released on digital only like the last Resident Evil and Universal's Senna. So I gather small release films maybe only digital in 18 months. My service engineer who comes travels the UK says that he has install so many D cinema in small chains and independants that its only a matter of time when that saturation rate will hit its target. I suppose it when the big ones like Odeon and Cineworld go totally digital thats will be the call to big companies to save money and go only digital prints.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-02-2011, 09:37 AM:
 

quote: Tony Ratcliff

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it appears that others have gotten it also,
I guess it is real.

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quote:

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(For those of you who are in the majority who have committed to conversion, congratulations and you can stop reading!)

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He may want to go back to school after 40 years to re-up on what constitutes a "majority". We are nowhere near a majority of digital houses.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-02-2011, 02:09 PM:
 
Perhaps someone who knows the man should call him and confirm that this actually originated from his office. Major industry announcements are not normally made in the form of Facebook posts.

In any case, even if it is legitimate, this doesn't really say anything that hasn't already been said. Personally, I would not make a major business decision based upon this sort of veiled threat of what may or may not happen in the future. Sure, there will come a time when major new releases are not generally available on 35mm film, but that could be next year or it could be many years away. In the meantime, equipment is becoming both better and cheaper.

Considering that it has taken about five years to install in about half of the cinemas in the US, I would expect that it would take at least another five before the process is complete, given the limits of manufacturing ability, installation ability, and the fact that many of the 35mm-only venues may have little or no desire to convert. Additionally, the newer theatres were generally the first to get equipment; the remaining houses tend to be older and may require more construction work, electrical work, or other upgrades before the conversion can be made.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-02-2011, 03:10 PM:
 
I guess the real strange thing about this letter is, why is it being posted to Facebook? You would think if Disney wanted to put out a letter like that, they would print it up on nice Mickey Mouse stationery and mail it. It just seems off for the way they normally do things.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-02-2011, 04:11 PM:
 

quote: Tony Ratcliff

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I received this e-mail letter directly from Disney today.

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quote: Aaron Mehocic

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He may want to go back to school after 40 years to re-up on what constitutes a "majority". We are nowhere near a majority of digital houses.

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quote: Aaron Mehocic

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He may want to go back to school after 40 years to re-up on what constitutes a "majority". We are nowhere near a majority of digital houses.

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My understanding is US screens have reached, or are on the verge of reaching, 50% digital.
 

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Posted by Donald Brown (Member # 5427) on 07-02-2011, 06:11 PM:
 
This discussion provides a rather interesting lens under which one might view a number of the issues involved with digital projection and independent exhibition.

At least at the present time, there is no viable advocate for independent exhibitors in the U.S. While there are trade and industry associations that include independent, limited market, and seasonal operators, it is evident that among those affiliations, the supposed advocates for independent operators appear to have either broadly endorsed the digital roll-out or to have taken a position of advocating for their own interests in securing affordable terms.

It is apparent, in the middle of a prolonged period of economic instability, that many independent, seasonal, and limited market exhibitors will not be able to survive a forced transition. In many cases, the overall cost of a digital transition represents between 50%-100% of the market value of many of these locations. No one is advocationg for the interests of these exhibitors! What is most unfortunate is that the loss of these theatres will change the nature of movie going patterns that were established in small towns and rural areas across America decades ago.

Independent exhibitors need an advocate similar to the late E.M. Lowe and the role he played in the industry in the late 1940s. Film has a place in this industry. It is time for independent, limited market, and seasonal exhibitors to advance their interests, preserve their vocations, and maintain their communities' cultural landscape. Without this advocacy, we will all be at a loss. As a class of businesses, our interests can be preserved!

Don Brown
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-02-2011, 06:48 PM:
 
Maybe the "little guys" can just play the Blu-ray!( Day & Date are almost here.) Louis
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-02-2011, 07:09 PM:
 
At best, the numbers I've see are no more than 50% conversion by the end of 2012. And if the VPF deals stop there, as they are set to do (and reduce by the fall of this year), you will likely see conversion slow or halt until the deals are extended. What the industry does not want is a 50/50 conversion or (anything near that).

-Steve
 

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Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 07-02-2011, 07:17 PM:
 
Exactly.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2011, 07:19 PM:
 

quote: Mike Frese

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That statement is true for the number that counts the most: box office gross.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Most out there in the US and Canada can qualify for VPFs.

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quote: Mike Frese

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VPFs are only for the first 4 weeks

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quote: Mark J. Marshall

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So what happens to all of those theaters overseas that haven't converted and are nowhere near converting? No more film for them either?

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quote: Monte L Fullmer

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What (asking a general question here, not directed at Mark...) are the Drive-In's gonna do with this: find ways to do digital or close down and sell their land off?

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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I wonder what stuff Paul and Tim are smokin?

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Cinedigm has a program that can fit just about every one's needs. They have even come out with a mini monitoring rack so Mom and Pop can collect VPF's.

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Is this a new program or the CBG program? If CBG, then it is a done deal and you had to be a CBG by their cut-off.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-04-2011, 10:15 PM:
 
Even if a theatre manages to qualify for VPFs now, that won't help in a decade or so when the next generation of equipment needs to be purchased and installed. Ultimately, this hardware is going to have to be paid for by exhibitors, even if the drug-dealer approach ("first one's free!") works in the short term.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-04-2011, 11:09 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Cinedigm has a program that can fit just about every one's needs. They have even come out with a mini monitoring rack so Mom and Pop can collect VPF's.

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quote:

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Even if a theatre manages to qualify for VPFs now, that won't help in a decade or so when the next generation of [digital projection] equipment needs to be purchased and installed.

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Scott, I would imagine that the movies of the future will be backwards-compatible, in much the same way that...

...70mm coexisted with 35mm
...Digital sound coexisted with analog
...3D coexists with 2D

In multiplex situations, it's likely that the "premiere" screens would get the upgrade while smaller houses stick with the current technology.

Like 70mm, THX, digital sound, 3D, etc, if it appears that the upgraded houses really do have more earning power, then we'll see a widespread adoption of whatever is the new thing.

But let's not ignore the motives for the current change from analog to digital. It's about reduction of overhead due to printing and shipping of prints. Once the switch to digital occurs, there really won't be a *pressing* need on the part of the studios to go any further.

Certainly, there may be a few high-powered directors who seek technological improvements (higher resolution, increased frame rates, etc) but even if they get their way for a particular film, I don't think it will necessarily result in a *mandatory* industrywide retooling.

Cases in point:

Specially-timed version of "Transformers 3" for brighter 3D projection -- not mandatory.

7.1 sound -- not mandatory

Even George Lucas did not make good on his threats to withhold the new STAR WARS trilogy from theatres that didn't convert to digital.

With that said, now that we *are* on the digital treadmill, technological enhancements are inevitable, and it's likely that we all see this coming. So why not simply plan for it?
 

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Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 07-05-2011, 04:17 AM:
 
If the converted ratio of 35 to digital is ONLY 50/50 then Disney is barking at the Fuck-Up Fairies skirt.
This makes no economic sense whatsoever. So Disney are going to throw away the potential income stream from 35mm exhibitors?
Not a hope in Hades. This is classic strike-breakers strategy...send in a big gun, let them threaten all sorts of shit and see which way the land lies.

And since when have the studios dictated to exhibitors what, which and when they have to convert?...and why would any exhibitor even allow any studio to tell them what to install and when.

them.
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-05-2011, 04:51 AM:
 
I guess they are not THAT stupid. Of course they want to speed up conversion by issueing statements like that. After a while, they will reconsider what the actual conversion status is like and then decide what to do from there. Offer more VPFs, other deals, stop 35mm, or, what is more likely, make it less attractive to put more pressure on the houses that have not converted. That is, less prints, bad quality prints, more expensive prints. They'll certainly not just watch it growing slowly into peacful coexistence.

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-05-2011, 06:52 AM:
 
Most of the VPF deals that I've heard about are of the sort where one has to convert at least 50% of their screens (in a location) at the onset and have a set time frame for when the remaining within that location must also convert.

The stick in this, however, is that the VPF allotment goes down this fall so if you only convert 50% now, you will have less money to convert the other half next year.

Make no mistake about these VPF deals, it does NOT cover 100% of the conversion cost but it does cover a substantial amount of it (typically 75% +). As such, the exhibitor will have to outlay a substantial amount of cash in order to hold their own (not generate any new revenue for the expense).

Manny, as to what Scott was saying about the second set...it wasn't about some new fangled format...it is about the realistic lifespan of the equipment going in today...it is unlikely that the majority of it will remain reliable and repairable 10+ years later. To drive the point home...non of the equipment that was purchased for DCinema 10-years ago is supported in any fashion. You may find some parts can be had and some parts will cost more than buying new. Even series 1 projectors have a black mark on them in terms of serviceability that is only going to get worse. The first 2K stuff is already starting to have more difficult times obtaining parts in a timely manner.

Certainly, time will tell on all of this. I'm hoping that since the currents stuff is being mass produced (as much as this industry ever mass produces anything), that the support of it will be longer than the stuff that was produced in more limited quantities. However, there are no guarantees.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-05-2011, 11:15 AM:
 
The studios will make 35mm as long as there are "chain" theatres that play 35mm. When it's down to just mom'n'pop 35mm theatres, that's when they will pull the plug. No matter what they say, the truth is they don't care about the small operators OR the income from them. The only exception is when we owe them money -- then they are deeply concerned!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-05-2011, 11:39 AM:
 
That sounds like an old Johnny Carson routine.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-05-2011, 01:59 PM:
 
What I'm noticing here is there isn't much of a glorious welcome to the digital conversion where it's supposed to be a "new thing" for the industry, such as: brighter and sharper picture, tonnage of presentation opportunities (3D is the big one..), and for the owners, a major savings in payroll and the elimination of presentation errors - like sound, scratches, out of focus issues (out-of-frame starts is extinct along with proper framing techniques, and the like.

Now, new problems seems to arise like: more bulb usage, KDM deliveries on schedule, system updates, server suddenly suffers with a major brain cramp during a presentation, maybe a HD crash here and there ...

who is winning?

-Monte
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-05-2011, 03:17 PM:
 
Well sure there have been problems with the new equipment but who was expecting anything else?

quote:

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What I'm noticing here is there isn't much of a glorious welcome to the digital conversion where it's supposed to be a "new thing" for the industry,

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quote: Monte L Fullmer

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who is winning?

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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I surprised the agent by putting his office logo and his picture on the screen while the crowd was coming in.

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quote: Frank Cox

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Just hook a computer to your digital projector

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quote:

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Quite interesting. What (asking a general question here, not directed at Mark...) are the Drive-In's gonna do with this: find ways to do digital or close down and sell their land off?

..and along with "mom and pop" cinemas?

..gonna be interesting to find out .. - Monte

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quote: Monte L Fullmer

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But, one question: Would you know if the VPF program be available for these subs and discount theatre owners?

thx-monte

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quote: Mike Frese was the last to post

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Cinedign

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quote: Monte L Fullmer

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But, one question: Would you know if the VPF program be available for these subs and discount theatre owners?

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quote: Mike Frese

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And god forbid share your VPF details with others in order to see if they make sense

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quote: Brad Miller

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As you know, specifics on VPFs really can't be discussed...

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1) Why are the VPF deals shrouded in mystery and ambiguity?

2) Why aren't exhibitors demanding transparency from the integrators?

3) Why isn't the legality of these backroom-brokered deals being challenged?

4) Why do I need to sign a NDA to get information from the integrators?

5) Why does Cinedigm continue to ignore my emails?

6) What the hell does everyone else seem to know that I don't?
 

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Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 07-08-2011, 10:29 PM:
 
Sony, GDC, & Film-Tech as integrators have been prompt on returning emails and phone calls. Cinedigm is horrible at both. Good to have choices.
 

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Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 07-10-2011, 10:52 AM:
 
In Denmark (as most other places, I guess), VPF-money are only for those theatres, who can afford the conversion themselves. Why should distributors want to help small cinemas, in which they don't earn anything worth mentioning.
I'm selling somewhere between 25 and 30.000 tickets a year, and would never be considered worth that kind of investment. I've been here for 38 years this week, and I'm not ready to just close down, but I have understood the words: Digitalize or die !
So simple is it !
Screen 1 - 88 seats - 2 Philips Dp70 in fine shape, DTS and Dolby Ex - everything to run my time out, but what is that worth, when 35mm has gone in less than a year from now.-Ergo: One Kinoton DCP30 in and one Dp70 out (sic!), total expence about 950.000 Danish Kroner (ticket price to compare is 70 for grown-ups, 55 for kids). Danish minister of culture, last autumn aired the idea of supporting the 90 smallest cinemas (from my size and down) 200.000 DKK to help going on. That made the two big chains (The Nordisk Film Cinemas and german-owned CinemaxX file a complain at the European Commonship about disturbing the competition ! This came from the same people that othervise spend their time, telling everybody that those 90 small cinemas are representing 2% of the total danish box-office only. But even small pebbles should be disarmed !
My colleques and I still hope to get this support. I may have two private sponsors coming in, too - af if they do, I guess, I will go for my 39 seat Screen 2, too. Othervise, my place will wil return to single screen next spring, digitalized by one private investor - me ! But on it goes !!
I have great wounds of the investment, but I do enjoy my new projector and the possiblities, it gives - accepting the minor pull-downs, as the missing move-over.
A Kinoton Scaler is handling the picture-signal from the Philips BluRay player, with a "Teufel"-box directing the sound to the proper inputs of the CP650, giving real nice quality on alternate shows. -And it was mentionned earlier in this tread, a USB stick in the BluRay opens the doors to "very local oriented contents".
I've got my hands free of the make-up table, and can now take over the job in the combined ticket- and concessions stand.
Not bad at all !



Per
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-10-2011, 11:42 AM:
 

quote: Monte L Fullmer

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a major savings in payroll and the elimination of presentation errors

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quote:

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quote: Monte L Fullmer a major savings in payroll and the elimination of presentation errors

Horsepucky! Another great example of a technology being touted
as 'the grestest thing since sliced bread' but which is in
reality an excuse to cut corners and eliminate skilled labor.
Remember - "you get what you pay for"

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quote: Monte L Fullmer

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I know that projecting film movies is form of art and the industry is taking that art form away from us

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I think it's all in how you look at it. To me the "art" is presenting a good show, no matter what medium it's presented in. That means the lights go off and come on when they're supposed to, you have a good mix of trailers geared to the feature you're playing, there is a sound snipe or a policy clip (or both), the picture is bright and in focus, the show starts on time and the crowd is managed. All of these things still manually controlled with digital.

I get just as much pleasure out of putting on a good presentation for the folks with the digital as I did with film.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-13-2011, 02:11 AM:
 
Guess I'm looking forward to it too, a little.

I've transitioned from playing 45s on the radio, to carts, to CDs to content on hard drive. Didn't think I'd survive losing my beloved razor blades, splicing block & china marker. A half hour after starting with a digital editing system, the analog stuff went on the shelf. Never looked back.

Hard to imagine pulling all the film gear out of my booth & threading some movie up for the last time. Survival is a powerful motivator though. Not planning to be the last person running film. Sure do miss that splicing glue.

Now... where to put the oil can!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 07-13-2011, 10:19 AM:
 

quote: Jim Cassedy

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Sure, new digital installations look great. But a few years
down the road as the equipment ages and theater owners take
the same amount of "care" they do with their present equipment,
it will only be a matter of time before digital looks just as
'bad' as some people claim 35mm looks today.

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One thing that sure isn't changing is bad movie theater sound. Most theaters that go through digital projection conversions do little if anything at all to the sound system. At most a stereo optical based auditorium might get enough changes just to do 5.1 in barely good enough to get by standards. With the illusion of these digital systems needing less maintenance than film based systems I expect the theater sound systems to become even more neglected than they've already been.

To make matters worse some theater circuits are already charging premiums for sound done halfway right by installing more dynamic sound systems in premium priced big screen auditoriums and leaving the sound ordinary or shitty in the rest of the multiplex.

The combination of wimpy sound and the possibility of declining standards in digital projection system maintenance could push more people into watching movies on their TV sets at home. The high prices for tickets and concession items aren't helping things. And distractions from other audience members (cell phone use, crying babies, etc.) sure don't help either. Let's not forget the very derivative nature of so many of the movies themselves. The movie product itself is often shit.

The primary motive of pushing the conversion to digital projection has always been about cutting costs. The business people and marketing folks spoon feed the public the story about digital improving quality, but honestly it's about cutting costs. It's just like so many other trends in the entertainment industry, such as the glut of unscripted "reality" shows on TV. Less money to spend on professional writers and actors. More money for the producers and guys at corporate.

The movie studios cut their costs in numerous ways. No more prints to order and ship. Movie post production is essentially turned into a video-based work flow. The same digital intermediate video master used for the movie post production can be used directly for release onto Blu-ray, DVD, PPV/VOD, cable, broadcast, etc. This situation also allows the studios to rush things more and perhaps even lower the finish quality of the product. But it's still digital and that makes it perfect anyway.

The cost cutting situation with digital projection is very simple for movie theaters: cutting the payroll. Let the salaried manager punch the buttons (and work marathon shifts). Let the d-cinema tech visit once in awhile to change bulbs or do IT stuff -but more of that will become the job of the theater manager as service providers try to increase or protect their profit margins.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-13-2011, 11:52 AM:
 
With my "art" comment, one can compare this to driving a car and I can relate that to some semi-pro driving skills that I've learned:

Operating film machines is like driving a totally manual vehicle - no power nothing - where you 'learned' how to handle the vehicle with steering, shifting gears (when to to get the most torque per RPM range), braking and so forth. You're simply in total control and you know exactly what to do. Plus, you can take a junker that you bought for cheap and make it into a diamond and have the satisfaction that you have accomplished something.

Now, with digital, it's like driving a vehicle that does it for you: automatic tranny, power steering/brakes - all the buttons and whistles to please your fancy that are included to where in short, you sole duty is to put the thing into "D" and point the thing down the road - you have no control of the vehicle.

Plus, the danged thing has a price tag of a decent home where you have to take a 2nd mortgage out to make the payments for it if you did a contract where then, you have to lease the thing to "flush the toilet" once a month, and they only last a third as long as a good older vehicle.

Guess, I'm ranting on the user end of this spectrum since most comments are related to owners who have to do this for survival.

Oh well, and agree: it has to be - gotta make the changes if one is gonna survive.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-25-2011, 03:13 AM:
 
'Lab pact heralds twilight of film

Deluxe, Technicolor agree to combine film services

By DAVID S. COHEN

The death knell for 35mm film production has just gotten a lot louder.
Citing collapsing demand for film prints as theaters shift to digital projectors, lab giants Technicolor and Deluxe have struck subcontracting agreements that edge them toward an end to their century-old competition in 35mm release printing.'

(...)

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118040041?refcatid=13&printerfriendly=true

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-26-2011, 08:10 AM:
 
Oh no...... Be careful Carsten! I posted that one and it was immediately locked by Adam . You better run and hide.

Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-26-2011, 06:56 PM:
 
I think he just locked that cuz it was already posted in another thread.
 

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Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 07-26-2011, 08:02 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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One thing that sure isn't changing is bad movie theater sound. Most theaters that go through digital projection conversions do little if anything at all to the sound system.

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