Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: More on KDM's

This is topic More on KDM's in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 08-22-2011, 03:23 PM:

I know there is already a thread on this, but I am doing a little research on this topic.
Looking for input from non-projection trained people on their experiences with regard to using and obtaining KDMs.
For example if there is no dedicated projection personnel in the building when a KDM is needed what is your company/site procedure.
Most of us, who have been or are lucky enough to still be projectionists already know what to do. But, what happens when there is no one in the know on site?
I already know of many horror stories so not interested in those, just how do sites/companies cope with this issue?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-22-2011, 03:25 PM:

Why should non-projection trained people need to deal with KDMs at all?

- Carsten

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-22-2011, 04:18 PM:

quote: Justin Gorka
Looking for input from non-projection trained people

I would imagine that they know the "chain of command" of such to get the ones in charge on this matter to handle this issue.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-22-2011, 05:40 PM:

Anyone who can operate a computer or a cell phone should be able to handle a KDM with ease.

Just write some brief instructions on how to download it and ingest it. Everybody carries a thumb-drive around these days so the person could just use his or her own thumb-drive, or maybe have one hanging on a hook somewhere in the theatre with "KDMs" written on it.

Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 08-26-2011, 06:19 AM:

Not very helpful folks. I'm talking about they way kdms are issued and chasing them up not how to use the things. Remember the art of projection is ( sadly) dying so things like this will become a real issue before long, and in some cases now.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 08-26-2011, 07:10 AM:

Well, adding to what Monte said - if there are no Projectionists on duty at all, or not for extended periods of time, then one would have thought it was a Management responsibility.

One consequence of further de-staffing of the Projection area with digital is that Management subsumes duties formerly carried out by the Projectionist.

Can you give a little more detail about the scenario you're researching?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-26-2011, 07:26 AM:

Well, basically you could have a dedicated email account where KDMs are being received or forwarded too. E.g. we would have a PC in the projection booth with this email account set up. There could also be a list of phone numbers to call, either trained personnel or the distributors.

But you know - as soon as someone is able to detect a missing KDM or use these means, he is no longer 'untrained personnel'.

So I have trouble to understand what you are after. If there is a KDM missing on site and no person in charge available - then that person in charge has made a mistake in not providing the KDM in time while he was on duty. The proper procedure would be to set up a remote connection for KDM ingest, or have the trained person arrive on site in time.

I mean, how would untrained personnel detect a 'missing' KDM at all? The projection system would not play, that's all untrained personnel would be able to detect. Could be any problem like this - blown lamp, automation failure, etc. They can't tell, they have to call someone.

It's not that you have a large red flashing 'Missing KDM on screen #4' in the ticket booth or concession.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-26-2011, 11:11 AM:

In the Cinedigm TCC...actually, there is a RED though not flashing message that will state in those words..."KDM Missing" and also say which show, screen number(s) will be affected.

-Steve

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-26-2011, 11:40 AM:

And the Cinedigm TCC is something untrained personnel would or should deal with?
Even the server itself will usually show that kind of message. But who expects 'untrained personnel' to take care of alerts like that and act accordingly?

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-26-2011, 01:40 PM:

"Untrained personnel?" There shouldn't be anyone in the booth who isn't trained in at least the basics. I have several people who don't know EVERYTHING about our system but they know enough that I could talk them through most of the various procedures on the phone, or even by email if I had to.

quote: Justin Gorka
I'm talking about they way kdms are issued and chasing them up

Well -- they are usually issued by email, but I know that Technicolor has a website (keys.technicolor.com) where you can also download keys from if necessary. I assume the others have, or will have such sites.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 08-26-2011, 02:02 PM:

I suspect maybe Justin didn't get his point across the way he intended.

Whilst I agree that no one without any booth training belongs in a booth, this is a far more simple project. KDMs are issued by the company handling the distribution of the movie. In America, there is Technicolor, Deluxe and Cinedigm. For this instance, let's say Technicolor is handling the release of "Billy Bob's Big Adventure," and they've sent the movie file via hard drive. The KDM rarely is included with the hard drive. Technicolor usually sends an email to theatre personnel designated in their system as needing to acquire KDMs, but they've also been known to send the KDMs directly to the LMS via modem. So let's say, in this case, it's Thursday morning, and you've only just discovered you don't have the KDM for BBBA. You can...

1) Email Technicolor and ask them for the KDM
2) Call Technicolor and ask them for the KDM
3) Log on to Technicolor's KDM portal and download it yourself

Options 1 and 2 are also available for Deluxe and Cinedigm.

But seriously, one should have a tracking board for which digital titles have arrived, which ones have been uploaded, which one have been built up and transfered to their proper auditoria, and when the KDMs have arrived. And if any of those are blank within 48 hours of opening, start your due process then.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-26-2011, 02:54 PM:

Or they could get a NOC that deals with getting and verifying valid KDMs and content. [Razz]

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-29-2011, 01:58 AM:

This is not rocket science...every week, usually on Wednesdays, someone checks the servers to make sure all keys are up to date. If a key is missing a call is put in to the responsible party-Deluxe, Technicolor, whatever-and the key is either emailed or sent via modem to the LMS (central library server).

With about 5 minutes of training anyone can handle this.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-30-2011, 12:20 AM:

...not to be mean, but do you think that they care any about this in the first place?

(Good luck with Cinedigm getting keys from them if you have to call for them for an email .zip file - takes a good deal of time, or they can send the wrong version. TECH is pretty good in this area... DeLuxe .. they do okey)

One can take this as a "it's not my job" thing and point fingers anywhere if the task was not done.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-30-2011, 12:54 AM:

At my location we only have 2 digital screens at this point. So far I handle all of the issues with KDMs, but I have taught my assistants how to do it and we have a digital contacts sheet which say specifically who to call for various issues.

When we receive KDMs, they go to my email account and then I have message filters set up to forward them to a theatre office email account. The assistants have access to this office email account and they can extract the keys from the zip file to the thumb drive and then ingest them.

We will have the remaining screens converted to digital and an LMS installed within weeks. When this happens, I will redo my procedures as needed.

I like Ed's idea of having a board to track the progress of digital content.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-30-2011, 02:01 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
converted to digital and an LMS installed within weeks

...and then, you can get the keys automatically sent down to the LMS and activated - no more thumbdrive transfers even though you'll still receive the files in the email.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-30-2011, 05:34 AM:

Never lost a show due to a missing KDM and although I haven't had to personally call for one in a while never had a problem getting one from any of the digital providers. The heart of the question, if I understand it correctly, is what will people do when there is a KDM problem and no one 'qualified' to handle it is available. The thing is that a theatre should NEVER have a KDM problem that requires such last minute action since KDM's last for at least a week (I've seen KDM's that last 2-3 months). Check the keys once a week and you should never have a problem. Its not like they're going to suddenly stop working in the middle of the week.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 08-30-2011, 07:16 AM:

Well, they could become corrupted, like any other file can. But I imagine that's pretty rare and there are probably safe guards in place for that on the server/projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-30-2011, 08:57 AM:

One of these days, I'll post a screen shot of the Cinedigm TCC to show how painfully obvious the KDM status is within the entire complex for not only the current week but also for the FOLLOWING week.

As for KDMs getting corrupt...certainly possible. They are XML files and the theatre will often have them in multiple places just due to the nature of how they are distributed. That is, there is a point or points where the KDMs are received (email, folder on a designated computer...etc). If the theatre has an LMS system...they will go there and then the LMS will distribute them to the respective theatres. So one normally has two copies of the KDMs if there is no LMS and three copies if there is an LMS...that is pretty well backed up! The only corruption that can affect a show is if the copy on the player somehow gets corrupt...to which the LMS can resend it or the KDM can be put on the individual player directly via thumb drive.

I now know of a situation where the lack of KDM delivery did cause a loss of show...confusion as to whether the title was actually booked at the theatre! The theatre must have prevailed since it only cost them the first show. But still.

-Steve

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-30-2011, 11:27 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
where the lack of KDM delivery did cause a loss of show

...but, wouldn't that missed KDM show up on that particular server's display of "no KDM found", or similar, or that particular venue had no individual servers at each unit and only one LMS to connect and communicate to all units?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-30-2011, 11:52 AM:

Monte...did you not read my statement. The theatre had no KDMs because the distributor would not issue one due to a question on if a title was properly booked. The theatre knew they didn't have the KDM but could not convince the KDM issuer to issue the KDM before that show was lost...an entirely stupid situation.

-Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-30-2011, 12:01 PM:

No, what is stupid is encrypting movies that are already on blu-ray. I understand there would be a re-package process for a movie that came out, say 3 years ago to make an unencrypted file, but it would be a one time thing and would eliminate all of the bs down the road. If someone is going to run an illegal rep show, they would just do it on blu-ray.

Still there should be an automatic approval for a 24 hour key in such situations Steve speaks of above. The studio could then go after the theater if they didn't actually have a booking.

Know what else is stupid? Encrypting Michael Bay movies. Nobody would want to run those if they weren't legally obligated to anyway. [Razz]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-30-2011, 01:13 PM:

The movie in question...to make things even stupidier...was not on its initial break...it was "brought back"...we are not even talking about a movie that hadn't been seen by many.

-Steve

Posted by William F Green (Member # 3192) on 10-14-2011, 10:18 AM:

I've just received my very first KDM in the UK - and it's wrong! Wrong date range which didn't include the final screening date.
Also one distributor asked us to complete a 'digital readiness' form inc. serial no's of server & proj for deluxe digital.
Then another distributor asked us to complete their digital readiness form and also asked for the server cert (which we don't have).
All seems unnecessarily complicated to me this whole KDM thing. Before anybody says "your booker should deal with this" - I am the booker, and the tech, and the manager, and the..
We have always been pretty pro-active in terms of chasing 35mm prints and have never missed a show due to non-delivery of a 35mm print. I'm hoping to apply the same zeal to chasing KDM's but there's no guarantee that when a KDM comes it will be correct.
A friend of mine remembers the first few DCP's he had several years ago had the KDM's already on the drive - what a good idea!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-14-2011, 11:04 AM:

You will have to fill out one of those digital readiness forms for every film company. Just like you had to fill out a credit app for each of them. They don't share information.

Just make a phone call to the "troubleshooting" number that is included with your drive, that will resolve your KDM issue in about two minutes. I've never had a problem with any KDM here.

Putting the KDM on the drive with the movie would defeat the purpose of having KDMs in the first place.

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 10-14-2011, 06:20 PM:

well, the management on site should know what would need to be done. If one needs to be obtained, they should know if they need to call Technicolor or Deluxe. But if the projector is missing teh key, and it is saved somewhere, use that. and if you havent recieved one, they would have to call the company who sent them the hard drive (usually the two stated above).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-14-2011, 07:10 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
You will have to fill out one of those digital readiness forms for every film company. Just like you had to fill out a credit app for each of them. They don't share information.

They do now. There is one form for all studios. Just happened a week ago. [thumbsup]

Of course the only problem with that form is there is no place to denote what email address you want the keys sent to. Oops!!! They also want the server's serial number, whereas the number they ACTUALLY want is the media block. Whatever.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-15-2011, 07:15 AM:

William - one of the issues you have is probably that you bought a second hand system and installed it without the assistance of an integrator or cinema service company. These would usually explain these needs to and partly service them for you.
You will be fine after these initial issues have been solved. Just set up a standard email with the necessary data for all booking contacts, make a round call to all of them to apply for forms, etc. In some countries, this is organized effort, in some not (yet).

- Carsten

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-18-2011, 09:20 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Putting the KDM on the drive with the movie would defeat the purpose of having KDMs in the first place.

How is that? Isn't it keyed to your projector/server/theater so it wouldn't work anywhere else? If not, that's pretty dumb.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-18-2011, 09:56 PM:

All hard drives for each title contain the same content. If you wanted the KDM on the hard drive, they'd have to burn a specific drive for each booking. I imagine that would be a gigantic logistical pain for the distributor.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 10-19-2011, 12:30 AM:

The movie files might be the same, but one can assume that, since the hard drives have to be erased and rewritten for each new movie, one could add the individual theatre's KDMs after the main process is complete. The only issue would then be if the wrong hard drive went to the wrong theatre. Like that NEVER happened with 35mm prints! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-19-2011, 09:50 AM:

Put all of the files for all of the theaters on it. Or maybe all from a particular region, or state or whatever. Then have the projector/server/whatever find its file and grab it. Or have it automatically grab it from a web server somewhere. Seems like a pretty easy process gone complicated to me.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-19-2011, 12:55 PM:

Each KDM has a code in the file that is assigned to the individual serial number of the assigned server.

If a KDM, that was injested, that has a different code which doesn't match the server's serial number, the key remains unusable and the file cannot be played.

With numerous servers having the same feature, each key must have its own assigned code containing the serial number embedded in the .xml file due per each server's serial number, along with the dates that the key is valid.

Why it's handy to have a list of servers in the complex with accompanying serial numbers so the right key is assigned to the right server if doing KDM injest manually instead of networking them out from a central source from the email client.

When the new "Dark Knight Rises" trailer came out, this file was a locked file which required a KDM to unlock it with the valid playdates and server assignments in each KDM file that came down via email.

Posted by Flemming B. Nielsen (Member # 6356) on 10-19-2011, 01:50 PM:

Hmm
Our 'Dark Knight Rises' trailer is not encrypted.....

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-19-2011, 01:55 PM:

..the first set originally assigned to "HP:VII" were encrypted and needed the key.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-19-2011, 02:58 PM:

It still sounds like it's a process that is way under-automated.

On the Dark Knight trailer being encrypted... I never understood security on trailers. Wouldn't you WANT everyone to see your trailer? Why make it difficult to play?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-19-2011, 04:33 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
that is way under-automated

...it's all for the simple case of anti-piracy procedures.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Wouldn't you WANT everyone to see your trailer? Why make it difficult to play?

All typical trailers are not encrypted, thus they can be played at any time along with being stored as long as you want to. WB prob only wanted a certain time frame to advertise this trailer, why it was encrypted.

Yet, it can be automated where, example sake's,: Tech or Deluxe sends the KDM's to the theatre's mailbox, which a copy of these keys are automatically delivered to a ftp server, in which then, due to the serial number assignment per each key, the server automatically delivers the key, with the matching serial number of the server, to the appropriate playback server. The serial number procedure is like a checksum: both ends have to match to make the process work.

This eliminates the email deliveries to the manual copy to the USB procedure. Yet, if an glitch in the automated delivery happens, a user can still retrieve the .xml file from the ftp server to expand it to copy to USB if an occasion is needed.

I haven't performed a manual USB key delivery for a few months now after we went automated. Even if I do need a key, I call up either depot and it comes shortly to our email client, which in turn automatically goes to the ftp server..and in a few minutes, the playback server has the key and the movie is unlocked.

Trust me, it does work .. - Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-19-2011, 04:50 PM:

Believe it or not...one of the reasons for the stupid POTS line requirement was for the KDMs...the distributor would "call" the server, send the KDMs to the LMS for distribution...no human involvement at all at the theatre level.

Who here has a working POTS line on the LMS and actually has ever had anything delivered on it?

-Steve

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 10-19-2011, 05:00 PM:

I am uncertain of how the KDM's get to our LMS; has to be either satellite or via modem. All I know is it happens automatically and the occasional instance where it doesn't show up on the LMS/servers copies are emailed to the theatre email address anyway.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 10-19-2011, 06:58 PM:

Our KDMs are uploaded directly in to the LMS, AND emailed to whomever I tell Technicolor, Cinedigm and Deluxe I want the KDMs sent to each week, AND (in the case of Technicolor) available for me to download every Wednesday from http://keys.99films.com

Posted by Olivier Lemaire (Member # 5579) on 10-19-2011, 07:33 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Who here has a working POTS line on the LMS

we have one... cause of VPF contracts :S

quote: Steve Guttag
and actually has ever had anything delivered on it?

Did not since more than 3 years now... cause of pure realism I guess [Smile]

KDMs are flowing by mail to the theater central server, where they can then be ingested a few clicks away.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for this "security" measure to be removed by Studios... but until then, I'm still forced to apply it on a regular basis (each LMS we deploy)...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-19-2011, 08:32 PM:

quote: Edward Havens
available for me to download every Wednesday from http://keys.99films.com

..member restricted site... I've seen this url in the *.xml files. Bookers, with instruction to these deposts, prob can have these keys sent directly without owner interaction...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-20-2011, 12:10 AM:

I believe the POTS line requirement is indeed finally going away (at least in the US). Sony is probably the lone hold-out on demanding it.

Mind you, it isn't the end of the world to implement it...just a USB modem (and some LMS systems have that built in). It does require the business to have a dedicated land-line and phone number just for that single purpose.

-Steve

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 10-20-2011, 01:24 AM:

Well... yeah, Monte. You need to have a TDC account, and have TDC link your email account to your TDC account, so when you log in, you get your KDMs.