Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sony SRX-R220 Bulb explosions

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Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 09-26-2011, 12:28 AM:

At our theatre, we have a Sony SRX-R220 that each bulb that has been in there has blown up at 480 hours. We now have to remove the bulb after 300 hours to ensure that it does not blow up anymore. This more than doubles our expense on the bulbs for that auditorium. But I cannot figure out what is making it blow.

Info: SRX-R220, 4200w bulb.

If any one has any ideas, that would be wonderful. I would like to solve this issue once and for all.

and by the way, because it has blown up, Sony will not warranty it anymore. (they stopped after it blew up on the second bulb in it, thus, us changing it out very early.)

Thanks,

Steve

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 09-26-2011, 02:23 AM:

Exhaust not up to Sony's requirements?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-26-2011, 02:25 AM:

Sony?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-26-2011, 02:37 AM:

Stick a booster fan in the exhaust stream - I had to do it also even though I never had a bulb explosion with my R320 units, but tired of pulling black bulbs out on the change.

If your unit is out of warranty, take out that mesh screen at the top of the exhaust outlet. Dumb screen is the weakest link for strong air flow.

"it's a SONY!"

Posted by Kris Verhanneman (Member # 5562) on 09-26-2011, 02:37 AM:

When you remove the bulb at 300h what is the status of the lamp?
Is it like new? Or has it a blue shine? Cracks in the glas?
Is the light output still stable?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-26-2011, 02:39 AM:

What are your power settings in the menu section - you could be over driving them....

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-26-2011, 03:15 AM:

Monte, as far as I am aware, Sony will not let you over drive a lamp. 100% is the maximum for any given lamp, and the range is determined by two digits of the 16-digit lamp code which specify the wattage.

I vote for exhaust issues here, too. The 320 has a safety switch like film consoles do; it will not let you strike a lamp (or the lamp will extinguish if already struck) with failed exhaust. The 220, unfortunately, does not. So, yeah. Check your exhaust.

Posted by John Thomas (Member # 6509) on 09-26-2011, 04:27 AM:

1. Make sure you're focusing the lamps properly. Sounds stupid, I know, but for a time we had someone who wasn't focusing them correctly when he changed them, and so the auto-adjustment was powering the lamp much higher to make up for the very low luminance it was reading. This made the lamps get very dark very fast until we realized his problem and corrected it.

I wouldn't even mention the focusing thing if the focusing step in the lamp change wizard were intuitive. But it's not. I personally had no problem understanding what was going on, but I can see where our guy got confused and I figure it's possible someone else out there could too.

2. Another vote for exhaust airflow. One of ours in particular (a 320) would get dangerously dark before even passing 300 hours. We added a booster fan we had on hand and now its lamps last the longest of all our Sony's. After seeing that we now plan to add a booster exhaust fan to each Sony we have. The ~$250 for each fan will more than pay for itself within a few lamp cycles.

Not only do the Sony's seem to have inherent (read: BY DESIGN) trouble with exhaust because of the grate built into the chimney, but we've also experienced HVAC guys taking airflow measurements with the lamphouse open, closed, the vent attached, detached -- basically all different conditions just to get the bare minimum CFM reading for the installer.

I cannot more strongly recommend a booster fan. Here is the model we are very pleased with:

http://www.amazon.com/Fantech-Inline-Fan-FX8XL-521CFM/dp/B001E1IXPI

I hope some of that helped.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 09-26-2011, 11:21 AM:

quote: Ken Lackner
The 220, unfortunately, does not.

It does have a temperature sensor that will kill a 4200w lamp within about 20 minutes in a booth with an ambient temperature in the mid 70's and the rest of the system having clean airflow from the smaller fans.

I'm surprised no one has asked: what brand lamps are we putting in here?

Sony asks minimum 550 CFM at the 8" duct, did you have this previously? Has anything changed? HVAC guy monkeying with things?

Good point about the screen on the lamphouse and the grate in the stack. I brush and vacuum that screen damn near every bulb change. However if he's popping lamps on a routine basis. Though Sony has probably replaced the lamphouse entirely at this point, right?

Any buildup on the grate in the stack? Piece of something sucked against/caught in it?

Good question above about the coloration/wear on the lamp.

How large is your screen? 2D or 3D lens attached? And what is the power setting when you've just installed a brand new lamp?
If you know the foot-lamberts too that'd be great.

Good luck!

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 09-26-2011, 01:22 PM:

Using Philips for the bulbs (warranty is 700 hours). all of our other digitals are 320, and not a single issue with those using the same bulb.

3D lense attached

The exhaust has nt be altered since setup while the first couple bulbs blew too. (no bulbs got up past 480... )

the lamp house has been replaced the first time, the second we just replaced all that broke.

the only discolouration was mentioned by another poster, about the darkening. Though my other manager states that when the hours get up to 200, it starts to look a tad unclear/blurry.

Any other settings, I dont know off hand, and wont be able to check till when I go back in again.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-26-2011, 01:29 PM:

I started wiping down that silly screen in our 220's the first time we had to replace the lamp. Our machines still cook lamps black. Our 320's dont. ALL of our exhaust blowers are running at 600 cfm's.

I'm not enjoying playing Make Believe with these machines.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 09-26-2011, 01:33 PM:

Hmm...the Ushios don't seem to darken on us nearly as bad as the LTI/Philips did. Some do. Usually it's just a dark spot on the top of the envelope, no bigger than 1".
Although if we burn them long enough they'll eventually turn black. But this would be far past the warranty.

Have your HVAC guy verify your airflow at the duct.

Let us know about the other details (lamp power and such).

Failing the cooling I'm thinking you could have a bad power supply.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-26-2011, 06:30 PM:

quote: Dominic Espinosa
that will kill a 4200w lamp

..and you get a yellow tail light and a high-temp warning in the status section on the monitor and on the display on the back of the unit.

...why we added a booster fan-I had too many of these high temp warnings...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-27-2011, 09:06 PM:

Instead of that particuluar Fantech look into the FG8XL. It offers abot 25% more CFM in the exact same size housing or about 800 cfm for just a litle more $$. You have to take into account the entire stack system plus any limitations the projector places on the extractor fan itself. Sony's are known for a limiting air volume in the lamphouse... Isn't there a fine mesh screen on either the intake oe exhaust? Be sure that is not plugged!

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-28-2011, 03:38 PM:

quote:
Isn't there a fine mesh screen on either the intake oe exhaust? Be sure that is not plugged!

Exhaust side at the base of the 8inch out.

I love to take that screen out, but was warned that would void warranty. Thus, on went the booster fan.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-29-2011, 08:35 PM:

Mark...comparing the two models...if anything, the FX8XL has slightly more air flow (about 20cfm more).

-Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-30-2011, 09:50 AM:

You're right Steve... It is just slightly more. I use the fg8xl up to ~3kw generally. After that the Fantechs go to a 10 inch fitting.... Makes it a bit trickier to deal with. Not many places have off the shelf 10" to 8" step downs....

Monte.... Is Sony really going to come around to see if you've removed that screen? The NEC's also have a screen but it is a fairly course weave. I believe it is actually there so nothing can fall back down the stack and get into the lamphouse. In Fallon Nevada I once removed the carcas of a dead crow from the booth exhaust blower...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-30-2011, 01:22 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Is Sony really going to come around to see if you've removed that screen

Prob not, but unfort, these units belong to someone else along with not having the authority to do any sort of mods, why it's best that I keep "my hands clean" of the matter.

I pull out black bulbs when I put in clear ones in...and that's how it goes...

-Monte

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 10-07-2011, 09:24 PM:

Update on everything so far.

Right now we have 79 hours on the current bulb.
0 lumin. offset
lemp power is currently at 80% with max of 4.2 kw

it is also our biggest house we have too. (why a 220 instead of our other 320s in teh biggest theatre I dont know.. but they did.)

that is all I know at the moment, as I am a manager, not full fledge projectionist.

Also, I am not sure that it is airflow as it only happens after 450 and before 500 hours... maybe a UPS problem? I do remember that when it was initially installed they did have a problem with the UPS and communication between it. But has been fixed since, and before the first two bulbs blew. (first one blew at 489 hours ,second at 478 hours.)

and they have all have blown during ignition.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-07-2011, 11:09 PM:

...220's were made for the larger screens (up to 100' wide), whereas the 320's for the small to middle sized screens

Can't be UPS since that device backs up all of the 120v circuitry.

..almost sounds like a 'ballast' (rectifier) issue. Do you have multiple strikes before the bulb ignites when you get age on them?

What about the 16 digit code that you use when you do the bulb install?

For the code is what sets the amperage output for the rectifier to run the bulb.

Need to get your SONY tech back to check this all out..

-Monte

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 10-07-2011, 11:25 PM:

Actually, the ballast sounds quite right.. we have gotten a couple random ballast errors on it before... though random, and not often. (they appear like the TMS servers do with "cannot communicate with project..." errors randomly.). and yes, there are multiple strikes alot of the time.

What should I check for with the ballast.

No offense to our "Tech" for our location, but he sucks and is quite useless... I do most of the repairs myself.

I can take apart things and put them back together to make them work, but I dont always know WHY they do what they do. (I know how to replace and repair circuit boards, but I cant tell you how it operates, etc..., I can do maint. on a car, but cant tell you what and how everyting does its job.)

And for this unit, it is safe to assume we have had whatever error you may want to know of at some point in its life.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-07-2011, 11:36 PM:

When I get a 'ballast error'(which is rare), I flip the switch above the USB port to turn the projector off (not the media block) and leave it off for a minute. Then flip it back on.

What you're doing is doing a 'cold reboot' on the projector.

We had to replace that ballast twice in this one unit. The first one totally died, and the other one was having a hard time striking the bulb. The 208/3ph current coming from the wall was right on.

Definitely sounds like you got a bad ballast and it needs replacing (there is nothing that you can do inside being all circuitry) if it's popping that many bulbs...their like a STRONG switcher: they can suddenly shove WAY too much amperage after a ignition and that will pop a bulb in a heartbeat since it's suddenly being over driven.

It's also wise to go into the menu-into "restart SMS" then "shutdown" once a week so the UPS gradually shuts down the entire unit where the media block and projector can rid of stray memory and start fresh. I do this on a weekly basis and I never have a problem with our Sonys...

Good Luck -Monte

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 10-07-2011, 11:51 PM:

Yea, we do weekly shutdowns, and we do have to do the force shutdown (cold reboot) and it only blows after so many hours which leads me away from airflow. I will check into that ballast.
is there a way to "test" the ballast?

Since we are out of warranty, I would like to figure out before we do test runs to see how far we can get to reduce costs.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-08-2011, 03:59 AM:

quote: Steven Wold
is there a way to "test" the ballast?

That, I don't know since those 'ballasts' are all but sealed up.

I bet that SONY got that one all locked up where it's just a "repair/exchange" or something else where you have to get a replacement only.

Posted by Steven Wold (Member # 6537) on 10-10-2011, 12:25 PM:

The "tech" mentioned earlier is the sony rep, who essentailly said it was our problem.

The company tech we have (who is probably one of the best techs iv seen) has replaced the ballast, and all potential issues would have all been addressed when it was first happeneing. He, along with the rest of us, just wants to get rid of that thing. So all options from here have all been addressed, and no luck, stumping all of us...

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-10-2011, 01:16 PM:

All of us want to get rid of our Sony's. I think we are all in the same boat, here.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-10-2011, 04:24 PM:

I know that the lot would love to send these unfortunates to STRONG to add to their salvage pile for recycle, but unfort .. not going to happen since they're not our machines-we have to work with them.

Now, comes the 2nd step: finding a way to work with these units so the will behave as they supposed to in an orderly manner.

(Makes one wonder why these things were never bench tested or researched out before installations, unless it was a blind boardroom decision..)

-Monte

Posted by John Thomas (Member # 6509) on 10-10-2011, 06:24 PM:

quote: Steven Wold
and they have all have blown during ignition.

quote: Steven Wold
and yes, there are multiple strikes alot of the time.

The igniter is separate from the ballast; was that replaced as well? I've had an igniter go bad and the alarm it gave was for the ballast.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-10-2011, 06:50 PM:

I'm still pointing towards the ballast, for if the igniter was bad, it wouldn't strike the bulb at all.

Yet, if John had an igniter go bad, what were the symptoms of a bad igniter - like the same as a film projector igniter?

I had a igniter crap out on a BARCO and it had the classic symptoms: hearing the ballast ramp up with power, a pause, then shutdown...then the error on the display screen pertaining to bad igniter.

Posted by John Thomas (Member # 6509) on 10-10-2011, 07:59 PM:

True Monte, and the symptom of my bad igniter was that one day it struck fine and the next morning it wouldn't make a sound, so it doesn't quite fit here. I only mentioned the igniter because at this point it sounds like it's the ballast but he said the ballast was replaced.

Are we ruling out that the replacement was defective? It's far from impossible with Sony.

What about checking the power source/breaker? The possibility of this being the problem is beyond my expertise, but is it worth mentioning?

Also I don't think it's been mentioned here yet: Are you striking per-show or per-day? Striking per-show causes premature difficulty with striking.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-10-2011, 09:19 PM:

...hopefully, striking per show (and when needed, for if he has a no-show, he can keep the bulb off), since bulb warranty hours aren't the greatest and those bulbs are pricey for these units.

But, multiple strikes can also be the results of a slight loss in line current (like AC running during summer drawing ) where the ballast isn't building up the necessary no-load voltage for proper ignition from the igniter - which is working properly due to it's giving out multiple strikes before ignition.

Course, Philips bulbs aren't the greatest IMO .. I'd shoot for Ushios for these Sonys.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 10-11-2011, 11:00 PM:

Second Monty on those Ushio bulbs.

Verify the AC lines into the PSU.
If you're feeling particularly wiley swap the PSU with another one if you can.
If all else fails call Paul Silkowsi.