This is topic Getting a Doremi server to control a Dolby DMA8 Plus in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-26-2007, 07:17 AM:
Arrive at the cinema yesterday to find that a proper monitor, keyboard and mouse has been attached to the Doremi, so that it's now possible to use the thing without bending down and trying to read the text on the tiny touch screen. This has been one of the main problems that I've had with it in the past. I wish it was possible to preview a playlist on the monitor, but that's another matter.
Since there's nothing on digital this week I was having a look at it while the film was running. I went into the Macro Editor, and had a look at the 'Sound to digital' automation cue. I thought it might be possible to programme this to send the appropriate ascii string to the DMA8 Plus, via either RS232, or preferably Ethernet to an IP address and port number. I know this works with the DMA because I've tried typing the commands into it from my laptop. However, the Doremi doesn't seem to be able to do either, despite the fact that it has an Ethernet connection.
The only means that it seems to provide to control an external device, other than the projector which it does control via IP, is the 8 general purpose outputs, which it can pulse or turn off or on. Is this really the case? I don't have a technical manual for the Doremi. If so, this does seem rather restricting; why would they not provide control via Ethernet?. The DMA can also be switched to 'Digital 1' by momentarily shorting a control pin to a ground pin, pins 1 and 5 I think, on a 9 pin control socket, but what would it need to get the Doremi to do this without an automation system? I don't know the Voltage of the GP outputs, nor how much current they can source, but I doubt that they cold drive a relay directly.
A Sound mute cue might also be useful, and it should be possible to add this in the same way, but you could soon run out of GP control lines doing it this way.
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-26-2007, 11:16 AM:
Stephen, yup.
I've done quite a number, we simply connect the appropriate terminals in the wallbox to the appropriate terminals in DB9 control connector on the DMA8+. Crude but effective.
Posted by Paul Carey (Member # 2241) on 08-26-2007, 06:46 PM:
Stephen,
Assuming you have an Arts Alliance installed DSN, you will indeed be restricted by the number of I/O's you can have using their wallbox. I've setup our site pretty much the same method as you did, having utilised the shorting of the "digital 1" and ground pins on the DMA8Plus and the sound to digital macro cue.
Paul
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-27-2007, 04:13 AM:
When Arts Alliance installed the equipment the DMA wasn't there; it didn't arrive until later, so obviously the AA installer couldn't connect it up. Pete, I think the DMA was installed by your company, but since the wallbox is owned by AA does that mean that only AA or somebody authorised by them, can open it, and connect things to it? Maybe the next time AA come in to do something we can get them to connect this up as well. Since the DMA is owned by the cinema presumably we can allow them to connect to it, and the same with the CP-65 to get a sound mute function.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-27-2007, 04:31 AM:
If you own the actual box, then you can do what you like with it, whether AA likes it or not. It's the same principle as with the teenager who hacked the iPhone. After he bought the phone and paid for it, it was his to do what he liked with. You can't infringe a patent, copyright or any other law by modifying an object you own outright for your own personal use - hence teenager 1, Apple nil. You can invalidate a warranty or service contract by doing that (i.e. AA could refuse to service something that's been user modified), but as long as this isn't an issue for you, I can't see that you have anything to worry about.
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-27-2007, 05:15 AM:
Leo, I think the wallbox, along with the rest of the equipment in the digital package, is the property of AA. The DMA is not part of the package, and is the property of the cinema.
Pete, have I understood you correctly, that the 8 GP outputs on the Doremi are presented as relay contacts, or electronic equivalent, in the wallbox, which can be connected directly to the DMA8, with no extra electronics needed? If this is the case I'll have a word with the chief when I see him, and suggest that we get this connected up.
I do think that the Doremi is rather lacking in his respect; since it has an Ethernet interface, and talks to the projector through it, why can't it control other things the same way. Then all that would be necessary would be to give the DMA an IP address, programme this, along with the port number and the ascii string for the command, both given in the DMA manual, into the Doremi, plug in an Ethernet cable and that's it. Even equipment which doesn't have an Ethenet interface is often controlled in this way, by having an Ethernet connection to a controller somewhere near the equipment to be controlled, and then some sort of serial connection, RS-232, 422 or 485, to the actual equipment. There are often multiple controllers in different locations, each controlling multiple devices. Three systems at work I can think of that work this way are the boiler management system, the entrance barriers and ID card system and a Kramer 8x8 AV matrix switcher feeding several plasma screens in the new refectory which opens this week. This has the advantage that equipment can be controlled over any distance, I managed to operate the video switcher from a train between London and Birmingham, and an unlimited, for all practical purposes, number of devices can be controlled by a single Ethernet cable, or even a wireless connection, from the computer. No, I didn't need to operate the matrix switcher from the train; but the installers only set up the AV side of things not the control side, so I had to make up a cable and set this up, and I just wanted to see if I could get it to work from the train. We will only actually use the facility from a pc in the same building to operate the switcher at scheduled times.
I don't generally like automation in cinemas, but due to the layout of the equipment changing from film to digital at the moment is a bit awkward, and it would be easier if we didn't actually have to go the rack to switch the DMA.
Posted by Benjamin John Doman (Member # 4365) on 09-02-2007, 09:12 AM:
Hi,
Agreed that the automation contacts are limited. They are very easy to connect to though, but be warned! I have had several shows where one or more of the 'pulses' from the server don't work. If you're theatre didn't have automation when the server went in, chances are that the pulses to the wall box was not programmed in.
Regards, Ben ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 09-08-2007, 01:03 PM:
There may be some security and safety advantages to _not_ connecting control cables in a way that makes it possible to operate them while on a train. Computer software often has security bugs that can become problematic if you're connected to the Internet, which can be less problematic if the physical connection just isn't there.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-14-2011, 08:09 PM:
It has been 1528 days since the last post.
Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 11-14-2011, 08:09 PM:
And several years later the Doremi has changed much and things can be controled over the ethernet.
I on the other hand still have problems connecting the darn things. According to the manuals and tech advice, this should work on our DCP2000 servers:
- setup a RAW device called DMA8plus
- enter correct ip and port
- make macro to send text message in text form
- execute macro
But nothing happens. The Doremi says the macro is executed, nothing happens on the dma8plus side (or any other raw device i set up, apart from the CP650 which is set up exactly the same).
What can i try? Is there something blocking the communication. I can telnet to the devices fine, i can also ping them from the doremi terminal. I am lost.
Thank you for any input.
PS: For those that were looking for the DMA8plus software do drop a line, as i finally got it. Can it be put up to the warehouse somehow?
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-14-2011, 08:54 PM:
Set up your laptop in place of the DMA8 Plus (use the DMA8 Plus IP and have a suitable terminal program where you can see just what is being sent. Do you have a DEC/HEX issue? Some programs want ASCII text to be in brackets of some sort...etc
-Steve
Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-14-2011, 10:12 PM:
Here's a step by step process for setting up a Doremi to talk to a USL JSD-100. It should be similar for the DMA-8. The Doremi sets up the TCP connection, sends the string, then shuts down the connection. Early JSD-100 firmware would miss the string. That's been fixed, but Doremi has also added a "wait" escape sequence. I don't know if it's in the production code yet, but you might give it a try. Put \w before the first character of the string and again after the last. That should result in a 1 second wait before the first character and after the last.
Good luck!
Harold
Posted by Arnoud Edens (Member # 5938) on 11-16-2011, 12:53 AM:
We've seen that for some devices you'll also need to send an enter sequence after the command. On the Doremi you can enter that in the macro as '\r\n'
For the DMA8Plus to switch to digital 1 the command would be 'dma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_1\r\n'
You can also add the wait sequence Harold mentioned to that (didn't know about that one, might come in handy ) so the command would become '\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_1\r\n\w'
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-16-2011, 06:58 AM:
I think the DMA8 Plus does not require either a carriage return or a line feed (/r/n) but I also don't think it will worry about seeing it...it is looking for the proper string of characters together and then acts.
Note, different devices use different symbols for the ASCII definitions /r, ^M, x0D as is \0D are all often used for <cr> carriage return. Note, when one breaks out into pure ASCII mode in hexadecimal, one almost always has to have a character the device that is SENDING the command defines as the hex mode character.
-Steve
Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 11-16-2011, 06:34 PM:
@Steve: i made a telnet session, listened on a predefined port and sent some test macros from the doremi to the laptop, got the same message as is written in text box thru
i don't quite understand the last part of your last message about needing a special 'definition character'. is this at the front of the message, or just for the <cr> part. how can it be changed?
@harold: i tried the usl step by step (identical to what i used before), tried also with about 100 \w commands, because if telneting onto the dma8plus one gets the whole status upfront and it takes about 5 seconds to show it all. the \w seems to delay the action by about 0.2s
@arnaud: tried with \r\n, <cr>, <CR>, without, with space after whatever i could find. no luck.
is there a special type of command one should use when using raw access to a telnet enabled device, a special string at the beginning of the message that the device will understand?
or maybe its a firmware issue? i have doremi 2.2.2.0 and dma 1.4.1.9 firmware versions. is there anything more recent?
i find it really strange tho, that there are apparently no people in the community using a combination of a doremi dcp2000 and a dma8plus.
Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-16-2011, 10:34 PM:
I just looked in the Film Tech warehouse for the DMA8 plus manual and could not find it. If you have one, that should supply the ascii string and any control characters required. I'd start by telnetting to the DMA8 plus on the appropriate port and try typing in the command. That'll give you a good understanding of what it accepts and does not accept (though any issues due to the Doremi quick connect and disconnect won't be revealed).
Also, here's a script I wrote to test the USL JSD-100 command interpreter:
#! /bin/bash
for(( ; ; )) do
for ((i=1;i<11;i++)) do
sleep 5
printf "jsd100.sys.input_mode\t$i\r" | nc -i 1 192.168.1.159 10001
echo "Selected button $i"
done
done
nc is "net cat." The "-i 1" adds a 1 second delay before sending data and after sending data. The trick is that Doremi does not have that delay. I had to revise the JSD-100 firmware to work without the delay (currently shipping code handles this fine).
Anyway, I'd start with the manual and a telnet terminal.
Good luck!
Harold
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-01-2013, 10:44 AM:
It has been 715 days since the last post.
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-01-2013, 10:44 AM:
I started this thread six years ago, but never got round to doing it due to the complications of the ownership of the equipment at the time.
The council now own all of the equipment, and are allowing me to do more or less what I want with it before the cinema re-opens.
To recap, this was a DSN installation; the digital equipment was removed, but has now been re-installed by AAM. I want to get the 'sound to digital' cue on the Doremi to pulse the DMA8+ to 'Digital 1 mode. In his original reply Pete suggested connecting to the Wallbox installed by AAM. I've never looked inside this; is it obvious what to connect to? I have the DMA8+ manual, which shows that a dry contact between pins 1 and 5 of the Digital Media Automation connector is required to select the Digital 1 input. Does the wallbox contain relays to provide this contact?
When I last looked I found the place in the Doremi software where exactly what each of the automation cues does can be configured. I can't remember where it was now, but I'm sure I can find it again.
As an alternative, is it now possible to get the Doremi to control the DMA8+, and other equipment, over Ethernet?
Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 11-01-2013, 12:56 PM:
Indeed the doremi can control either a cp650, cp750 or a DMA8+ over ethernet.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-01-2013, 01:49 PM:
Both is possible, but nevertheless, under the new conditions you should try to find documentation about that wallbox and how the DOREMI GPIOs are wired.
- Carsten
Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 11-01-2013, 05:37 PM:
If it is possible, could you then please write the exact syntax you use in the Doremi macros for controlling the dma8+ that actually works?
That would be very helpful.
Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 11-01-2013, 06:29 PM:
\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_1\r\n\w
\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_2\r\n\w
\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_3\r\n\w
\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_4\r\n\w
\wdma8plus.sys.input_mode film\r\n\w
Port= 61412
Protocol = tcp
Here ya go!
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-01-2013, 07:13 PM:
dma8plus.sys.input_mode dig_1 makes sense, that's the string which is given in the manual, as is the port number to send it to, and this worked when I typed it from a laptop a couple of weeks ago via Ethernet. I'm guessing that \r makes the Doremi send a carriage return, and \n a newline, but what's the \w?
The Ethernet port on the DMA has never been used before, and the IP address is not on the same network as the Doremi. I don't have the DMA setup software, but I should be able to change the address via the serial port.
Something which I didn't check when I typed the command manually was that when the DMA is commanded to go to Digital 1 mode by this means it will in turn pulse the CP into format 10, as it does when the Digital 1 button is pressed, without me having to send a contact closure to the CP to switch it separately.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-01-2013, 07:52 PM:
Get the software and don't try to set it up via serial (or Ethernet). The factory default Ethernet is 192.168.1.131...but you can't bank on it (ping it and find out).
Also, you want to be on the latest firmware on the DMA8 Plus...it will make software MUCH more reliable...especially if you change the Ethernet.
Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-01-2013, 09:55 PM:
\w is "wait." on the Doremi. So, the server sets up the TCP connection, waits, sends the command, then waits, then tears down the connection. I'm not sure, but I think the wait is about a second.
Harold
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-02-2013, 07:12 AM:
Harold,
That makes sense, thank you.
Steve,
I'd be happy to use the DMA8+ setup software, but it seems to be just about impossible to obtain. I wasn't there when the unit was installed, but I did go in after work on the same day for a first opportunity to hear the digital system for a few minutes between shows, which were then still all on film. There was a manual and various packaging material, and I think some cables, but no software. I'm pretty sure it wasn't supplied with the unit. Dolby don't seem to want to supply it to projectionists, only to suitably qualified technicians and partners. I did try calling Dolby at the time, but they wouldn't let me have it.
Even chiefs seem to have difficulty obtaining it; at least the few that I've spoken to do; a lowly relief projectionist doesn't stand a chance.
I can understand Dolby not wanting people who don't know what they're doing to screw up the settings, but in that case why not lock down the more advanced options and allow normal users access to the more basic ones? It's necessary to use the software, or serial or Ethernet connection, to do something as basic as turning the matrix decoder on or off when fed with a 2-channel PCM stream, hardly something which should need a qualified cinema technician to do.
After the digital equipment was returned to the cinema it was re-installed and set up by an AAM technician a few weeks ago. I am guessing that this would have included installing updated software, but I don't know for sure. What is the current version for the DMA8+?
I can understand not using an Ethernet connection to set the IP address and subnet mask, but why do you advise against doing it via the serial port? If I can't get hold of the setup software then that's the only way that I can do it, and I can't see that it can do any harm, or is there some problem which I'm unaware of?