Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: SAMSARA not in 70mm

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-28-2012, 01:40 PM:

SAMSARA was world premiered at the Toronto Film Festival but not in 70mm. The film was shot in 65mm but the showing in Toronto was in 4K digital. I am sure some 35mm prints will be made but no 70mm printing is planned. Most of the theatrical showing will be in 4K digital. The movie will probably be shown in large cities such as Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, London, Tokyo as well as film festivals around the world. SAMSARA was created by Ron Fricke and his first film, BARAKA played in Hawaii but only at the Hawaii Film Festival and that is where I saw it, It was in 35mm with mono sound and the print was badly scratched.

Like BARAKA, SAMSARA will eventually will be released on Blue Ray and DVD and I cannot wait for it to come out and I know it will be just as gorgeous as the other film on BD..

-Claude

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-28-2012, 04:22 PM:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I would take a 70mm setup and install at a local theater at my cost if they would strike 5/70 prints of this.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-28-2012, 05:24 PM:

I'l talk to Mark and see if he'll strike a print for you. [Big Grin]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-28-2012, 08:19 PM:

Boo! Hiss!

At least make some 70mm prints for NYC and LA and then let them tour the rest of the country. Ideally, there should be both mag and DTS prints to maximize the number of venues that can show it in 70mm.

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 01-28-2012, 10:49 PM:

I'd go multiple nights!

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 01-28-2012, 11:55 PM:

ideally it's best to see this as it was filmed in 65mm, but the 4K does have the advantage that it features 7.1 sound

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2012, 10:03 AM:

I imagine the 4K imagery will be really sharp and colorful, but it would still be even better if the movie was shown on 70mm.

Digital projection needs at least another generation or so of improvements with native resolution and contrast before it can surpass 35mm done right much less aspire to take on native 65mm imagery projected on 70mm. When systems can jump up to 8K and the black levels can get sufficiently deep then digital in commercial cinema will have the capability to impress audiences and deliver something people can't have in their home theaters.

Paul Thomas Anderson's upcoming movie, The Master, poses a similar problem. He reportedly filmed the movie using the same Panavision 65mm camera system used on Samsara. But there is a question on whether the release will have any 70mm prints.

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 01-29-2012, 10:51 AM:

I didn't think it was possible to stripe and sound mag anymore. Something to do with the EPA and the chemicals that go into the striping compounds. I'd settle for a DTS track. [Smile]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2012, 11:42 AM:

With the newer "Datasat" players it's possible to use the 70mm DTS time code to sync to higher quality audio formats on the hard disc, like uncompressed 24-bit 96kHz 7.1 audio or even something better than that if the unit was upgraded.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 01-29-2012, 11:53 AM:

We could certainly do 7.1 (or more!) channels in Datasat Digital Sound with a 70mm print, but unfortunately can't do uncompressed or lossless. There will be a Datasat soundtrack on the 35mm prints, and my understanding is they've not thrown in the towel yet on the 70mm; I'm hopeful that in the end they'll decide to strike 1 or 2 70mm prints.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-29-2012, 12:17 PM:

As they went the DI route I think that makes striking prints very difficult. Really they would have to go back and cut the negative and somebody would have to finance that. Perhaps one could look at a filmout from a CRT recorder but even if that were affordable it would probably negate the advantages of shooting in 65mm in the first place.

I think once they decided to do a DI that was the end of the print option.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2012, 12:29 PM:

quote: Brian Guckian
As they went the DI route I think that makes striking prints very difficult.

When they did the 8K digital intermediate of Baraka they created an archival 70mm print from it.

quote: Daniel Schulz
We could certainly do 7.1 (or more!) channels in Datasat Digital Sound with a 70mm print, but unfortunately can't do uncompressed or lossless.

The data sheet on the AP20 says it can decode DTS HD Master Audio. Is it only able to do that from a source on something like Blu-ray?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-29-2012, 01:04 PM:

The AP20 does not handle DTS/Datasat tracks directly...it is strictly a DSP based cinema processor. It would team with an XD20 for handing film digital. And with that any 70mm prints could have up to 16-channels of sound if one desired.

And mag prints are certainly possible though less desirable at this point except for the cost of a 1-off.

It would be a shame for a movie to be shot in 65mm and not released in 70mm. The film out should not go through a 4K DI though as it will not let the 70mm print show all of the detail in the negative.

I'm sure the AFI/Silver would be willing and able to run the 70mm print in the DC area if it existed...they can handle mag or DTS and are planning a 70mm festival this year anyway.

-Steve

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-29-2012, 03:03 PM:

DKP Imax has the capability to scan to 70mm for some silly reason [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-29-2012, 03:47 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
When they did the 8K digital intermediate of Baraka they created an archival 70mm print from it.

You sure about that? What is your source? That is not what I was told by one of the guys involved.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-29-2012, 04:06 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
When they did the 8K digital intermediate of Baraka they created an archival 70mm print from it.

Thanks for that information Bobby as I hadn't known that. I thought they'd just made a new Answer Print and new IP directly from the OCN at the time, prior to the DI work:

Article on "Baraka" restoration - in.70mm.com

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2012, 05:10 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
You sure about that? What is your source? That is not what I was told by one of the guys involved.

IIRC, that's what they said on one of the extras on the Baraka Blu-ray disc.

quote: Steve Guttag
The AP20 does not handle DTS/Datasat tracks directly...it is strictly a DSP based cinema processor. It would team with an XD20 for handing film digital. And with that any 70mm prints could have up to 16-channels of sound if one desired.

I got confused between the AP20 and XD20. But can't the XD20 handle other audio formats besides the original, lossy DTS format?

quote: Steve Guttag
It would be a shame for a movie to be shot in 65mm and not released in 70mm. The film out should not go through a 4K DI though as it will not let the 70mm print show all of the detail in the negative.

I thought Samsara had a 8K scan and DI treatment. Regardless, digital projection tops out at 4K.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-29-2012, 05:55 PM:

I believe the XD10 and 20 can do lossless audio but I won't swear to that. Honestly, that shouldn't be the reason to deny the 70mm release...I guarantee that it will not affect one ticket sale. 70mm will draw people from 100s of miles...lossless digital audio wont draw people 5 blocks.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 01-30-2012, 02:35 AM:

Nope, the XD10 and XD20 decode the same APTX lossy format that's been in use by DTS and Datasat from the very beginning.

There was an unreleased XD10 software version for lossless playback, but it only worked in a continuous timecode setup, not locked to standard Datasat printed timecode. That was more of an engineering proof of concept than a commercial project.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 02-01-2012, 11:12 AM:

isn't the 8K digital intermediate also pretty much the same in terms of it's transfer for bluray?

the bluray states: "First of it's kind 8K scan from fully restored 70mm film"

it'd seem rather pointless to do a 8K scan then downrez it to bluray specs and not retain the original transfer resolution

... I'm just saying.

[thread digression: I'm not getting how 65mm is pretty well replicable and archived in high resolution in digital form, but when it comes to 70mm sound, five front channel sound is not a high priority in retaining]

I'm really really hoping that the programmers for this year's DC Environmental Film Festival can secure a screening of this in March - my fingers are crossed.

@ Steve Guttag: what's the projector's over at the AFI Silver? - I'm assuming the DLP units are 2K - any incentive to upgrade to 4K DLP?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-01-2012, 11:25 AM:

It was my understanding they scanned it in at 8K, but the post process (cleaning up marks on the negative) was all done at 2K due to cost.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-01-2012, 11:50 AM:

At present, the AFI/Silver projectors are 1.3K Barco DP50. The plan before the year is out to have 4K DLPs in place though.

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 02-02-2012, 03:39 AM:

Screened tonight in Santa Barbara on our Barco 4K. Looked amazing.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-02-2012, 06:50 AM:

Whos player/IMB? Doremi?

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 02-02-2012, 10:40 AM:

@ Phil: was the audio 7.1?

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 02-02-2012, 11:58 PM:

Doremi Showvault and IMB. We use a DMA8+ into a CP650 so not sure how we'd get 7.1 into the house. The Barco is a demo unit so we didn't wire the audio into the digital I/O the 650 has installed.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-03-2012, 09:21 AM:

No Surround 7.1 if the CP650's 6-channel input was used.

-Steve

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-22-2012, 09:21 AM:

I need to put up here, for the record, that the film was given its European Premiere in Dublin last Saturday in 2K, and on a 60ft silver screen.

I was at the screening.

There is some misinformation going about that the film was shown in 4K - it was not.

That's all I can say for now.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-22-2012, 11:06 AM:

Just because SAMSARA was shown at it's European premiere in Dublin in 2K digital, does not mean it is was never presented in 4K elsewhere such as it's world premiere at the Toronto film festival. The Wikipedia encyclopedia online had reported SAMSARA was shown in 4K in Toronto and the film's review in Variety reported the same thing. As you may well know, both the Wikipedia encyclopedia and Variety provide very reliable information.

Please also consider the fact that it absolutely makes no sense at all to show it only in 2K digital instead of 4K in theatres when Ron Frieke went to all the trouble to photograph SAMSARA on 65mm film.

-Claude

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-22-2012, 02:20 PM:

Apologies Claude, I'd meant that some claims that the film had been shown in 4K in Dublin were incorrect.

Obviously Samsara has been shown in 4K at Toronto, at Santa Barbara and in April will be shown in 4K at Bradford.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-22-2012, 05:50 PM:

No Problem, Bryan [Smile]

I am not certain but there is a good chance SAMSARA will be entered in the Hawaii Film Festival this year. BARAKA was and by the time it played at the festival here, the 35mm print I saw at the festival was in a terrible shape with vertical scratches running almost throughout the movie. THFF at that time was hosted by Consolidated' Theatres at the Varsity Twin Theatres and some of the big important pictures were shown at the Waikiki #3. The festival is now hosted by Regal at their Dole Cannery 18 Theatre in Honolulu and it is very likely SAMSARA will play in one of the houses with Sony 4K projectors. Although Regal's Pearl Highland is all digital, I am sure some houses at the Dole Cannery is still running 35mm because of the film festival's need to be able run some of the entries that are only on film .

I do not know if SAMSARA is only playing at film festivals and if it is, the home video release should be later tis year at the earliest. SAMSARA was premiered in Toronto last October in 4K digital with 7.1 Dolby Digital sound from a 8K digital scan from the 65mm negative. Like BARAKA, when it is eventually is released on Blue-Ray, the picture and sound quality should be awesome

-Claude

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 02-23-2012, 04:43 AM:

quote: Brian Guckian
Obviously Samsara has been shown in 4K at Toronto, at Santa Barbara and in April will be shown in 4K at Bradford.

Disappointingly, it seems to have disappeared from the schedule at Bradford. Replaced by the film festival closing event.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 02-23-2012, 06:41 AM:

quote: Allan Young
Disappointingly, it seems to have disappeared from the schedule at Bradford. Replaced by the film festival closing event

Be patient young padawan! [Wink]

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 02-23-2012, 09:56 AM:

Joining the thread. I am a Baraka fan and had have had the great fortune of seeing it in 70mm at the Seattle Intl Film Festival in 70mm prior to its initial release as well as subsequent showings at the Egyptian in Hollywood in 70mm. Nothing compares, but I look forward to Samsara.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 02-24-2012, 03:44 PM:

why such a slow roll out of the film, don't the producers want to make any money??

supposedly there's a rumored 'Spring' theatrical release

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-24-2012, 03:57 PM:

That is a very good question, Jonathan. Both BARAKA and SAMSARA are not mainstream pictures and the only people who appreciate them are the type of people who attend film festivals. After BARAKA played at the Hawaii film festival, it never played a regular run here. I am sure the same will happen with SAMSARA because Regal who might show it at the next HFF, probably might not play it on a regular basis. I hope I am wrong when I assume this.

-Claude

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 02-24-2012, 04:13 PM:

In case anyone is curious: For its commercial release by Samuel Goldwyn in Seattle, "Baraka" played at Landmark's Egyptian in 70mm for a couple weeks and then a 35mm print bounced around between the Metro, Varsity and Crest (all Landmark). It has had several subsequent revival showings including recently in 70mm at the Seattle Cinerama 70mm festival.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 02-24-2012, 04:17 PM:

yeah I guess if you're name is not Godfrey Reggio a semi-wide release is not a guarantee ... [Wink]

(I could have sworn I saw 'Baraka' not in a film festival setting here in DC, and it was in 35mm not 70mm)

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 02-24-2012, 07:22 PM:

There are 35mm prints of "Baraka" out there in circulation. I've still not heard whether or not there will even be any 35mm prints of "Samsara". The show was completed last year (2011) but he managed to avoid any qualifying run for Academy Award consideration during this year's awards-qualifying season, which was kind of odd (IMHO). To "qualify", it has to have had a one-week engagement at some commercial cinema in the greater Los Angeles or New York City area during the year for which the awards will be presented. (I.e, a run during 2011, for awards for year 2011, which awards will be presented in the Oscarcast in the following year -- in this case, 2012. Coming this weekend, in fact.

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 02-26-2012, 04:50 AM:

quote:
Be patient young padawan!

Damn. I'm guessing that tickets are going to be tricky to get hold of then.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 02-26-2012, 06:28 PM:

We've already installed a 5/70 set-up in the hope of getting a 70mm print [Razz]

The news of the new 70mm print of BARAKA from the 8K DI is new to me - like Brad, and like that article, I'd been told it was a new interpositive from the OCN.

We've got a 70mm print of BARAKA from the original release - it was destined for junking but we were able to have Mark Magidson intervene. It's a regular fixture on our calendar and a spectacular show in 70mm. I'm not sure of too many other places that show it in 70 with any regularity, actually.

We were naturally very disappointed to hear that there were no plans for a 70mm release. At least we're able to show it in 4K, but it's just not the same. Even a film-out wouldn't be the same as a 70mm show-print on 2393... in Dolby Stereo Six-Track while we're heading down that path [Big Grin]

We enquired about getting hold of the 4K of SAMSARA but apparently (from the twelfth-hand info I'm getting) they're holding out for one big release, or at least internationally anyway.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 02-26-2012, 06:35 PM:

A question for Tony Bandiera Jr . Have you ever asked Mark if 70mm prints are a possibility?

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 02-27-2012, 03:50 AM:

According to the UK Film Distributors Association website http://www.launchingfilms.com/release-schedule
Baraka is being rereleased on the same day Samasara opens , Friday September 7th.

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 02-27-2012, 07:06 AM:

A new 70mm print with DTS of Baraka was made when they released the Blu-ray a couple years back. I talked to Mark about, but our Venue only had Mag at the time so we booked that. I'm sure its kept for special shows only, rarely going out.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 02-27-2012, 07:59 AM:

quote: Allan Young
Damn. I'm guessing that tickets are going to be tricky to get hold of then.

Tickets for "the closing night film" [Wink]

go on sale on the 15th March.

You may want to register interest for booking a ticket for the as yet nameless film with

Jeni Hall
Film Sales Executive
National Media Museum Bradford
BD1 1NQ UK
E-mail: Jennifer.hall@nationalmediamuseum.org.uk

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 02-27-2012, 04:15 PM:

quote: Paul Gordon
A new 70mm print with DTS of Baraka was made when they released the Blu-ray a couple years back. I talked to Mark about, but our Venue only had Mag at the time so we booked that. I'm sure its kept for special shows only, rarely going out.

Presumably struck from the OCN or the new I/POS then, rather than any 8K or 4K film-out.

I won't hold my breath until I see it, as much as it would be nice as our 70mm print got a bit beaten-up before we got hold of it.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 02-29-2012, 01:57 PM:

I confirmed with the post production supervisor on Baraka, the new 70mm print was an answer print off the negative. The 8k scan was used to down-rez to 2k for the Blu Ray and a 2k DCP.

Samsara was also scanned at 8k and down-rezzed to a 4k DI for a 4K DCP and possibly a 35mm filmout.

Posted by Tom Doyle (Member # 1474) on 03-11-2012, 07:12 PM:

There is indeed a new 70mm print of Baraka in circulation, I've seen it. Unfortunately, it's just not as sharp as an original print. Also, the DTS audio did not seem to pack the same punch as an original mag track.

I've seen Baraka so many times in 70mm, I'm not sure how I feel about Samsara on the big screen in digital. Maybe I'll check it out if it plays in my area in 4k.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-15-2012, 08:45 AM:

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Samsara being picked up for release this summer through Beastie Boy Adam Yauch's Oscilloscope Films...

Samsara

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 03-15-2012, 10:02 AM:

I can now confirm that Samsara will be the closing night film of the 18th Bradford Film Festival on Sunday 29th April.

Details can be found here

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 05-05-2012, 05:28 AM:

Was lucky to be able to see this at Bradford and it was absolutely stunning in 4K - like watching a completely different film this time.

To see the incredible detail from that 65mm negative 4K is the only way to go, in lieu of a 70mm print.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 05-05-2012, 08:24 AM:

I am not really supposed to talk about the films I watch for work. However since this has already been screened in public in the UK and in Ireland I will make an exception on this occasion to say that Samsara is absolutely stunning in 4K and a must-see if you appreciate the visual arts. I'm lost for words to describe how detailed, colourful, and brilliantly executed some of the sequences were.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 05-05-2012, 02:12 PM:

quote: Edward Havens
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Samsara being picked up for release this summer through Beastie Boy Adam Yauch's Oscilloscope Films...

On their website today:

"We are deeply, deeply saddened by the passing of Adam Yauch – an amazing leader, a dear friend and an incredible human being. Today we are heartbroken at Oscilloscope as we take in this awful news and our thoughts are with his family at this difficult time. Adam’s legacy will remain a driving force at Oscilloscope – his indomitable spirit and his great passion for film, people, and hard work – always with a sense of humor and a lot of heart."

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-27-2012, 07:18 PM:

SAMSARA will play in the Titan XC house at Consolidated' Ward Centre in mid October in digital 4k and 7.1 Dolby. Watching a movie in 3-D in this house is dreadful because the image is too dark but there should be no problem with SAMSARA because it is in 2-D. I am really looking forward to seeing this movie at the Ward.

-Claude

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 09-27-2012, 11:03 PM:

I saw this earlier in the week at the new Angelika Mosaic theater in DLP 4K/7.1 and it was stunning to say the least

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 10-14-2012, 08:24 PM:

I finally had the opportunity to see SAMSARA late yesterday afternoon at the Ward 18 in the Victoria Ward Centre in Honolulu and it was everything I was expecting it to be. The film was very similar to BARAKA with it's world wide location settings and the way it was photographed and edited. Even the use of music was similar. The only thing different was the scenes that might disturb animal activists when chickens and other farm animals are either shown being slaughtered or being prepared for market after that have been killed at packing house assembly lines.

When I learned SAMSARA was coming to the Ward, the email notification I receive from Consolidated every week indicated it was booked into the Ward's Titan XC house and will be shown in 4k digital sound and 7.1 Dolby Digital Sound. When I saw the movie, it was not in the XC house but another large auditorium next door with a slightly smaller screen that was only equipped with Dolby 5.1 sound. The movie however was projected in 4k digital and it was awesome! It was so good, I now understand why the decision was made to release SAMSARA only in 4k instead of 70mm. In my opinion after watching many movies that were photographed in 65mm and released in 70mm, what I saw yesterday was just as good. From the image quality and the sound, I actually felt like I was watching a 70mm print.

-Claude

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-14-2012, 10:32 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
The only thing different was the scenes that might disturb animal activists when chickens and other farm animals are either shown being slaughtered or being prepared for market after that have been killed at packing house assembly lines.

Are you kidding? Animal Activists absolutely LOVE that kind of stuff. They think it will shock people into being vegetarians or boycotting KFC or some such nonsense. The dorks who made this movie are probably charter members of PETA hoping to "enlighten" their audience with awareness of animal cruelty. I'll just enlighten myself by not watching their video. They did something similar in Baraka with the chicks and showing chickens trapped laying eggs. They've got a huge political agenda that they just can't resist inserting into their crap. It's really annoying.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 10-14-2012, 11:31 PM:

I don't know, I think the only real agenda is to show images from anywhere and everywhere on the planet.Stuff that creates a mood and honesty about people and chickens being treated with indifference by the powers that be.
Another agenda may be to kill off 70mm projection!
It's all 4k this and 4k that...wtf? Really? So nobody has the will and skill to do 70mm right?
I mean I keep hearing crap about The Master having bob and weave or shimmer issues in 70mm!
I am right now showing a 35mm show print that's rock steady,perfect focus.Showing how great 35mm can be.I work insanely hard to keep my end of it spot on with new parts such as a new reflector,band straps,curved gate piece,new shutter and shutter drive assembly and hours of careful calibration.
Is anyone doing 70mm right where 4k is humbled a little?
WTF!! [Mad]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-15-2012, 02:01 AM:

If you were running a 35mm release print, you would've gotten it from Deluxe there in Canada and you would be crying about how awful the copy was...and there is nothing you or your equipment could do about it.

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 10-15-2012, 05:52 AM:

Deluxe in Toronto shut their lab down a few months back. Vision Global out of Montreal is doing all their release prints.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-15-2012, 06:40 AM:

quote: Victor Liorentas
Is anyone doing 70mm right where 4k is humbled a little?

Fear not, I saw The Master very recently in a superb 70mm presentation and rest assured that it blows even the flawless 8K>4K restoration of Lawrence of Arabia out of the water!

IMO Samsara works very well in 4K because it is principally a documentary. But...again in my opinion, for dramatic storytelling, video - no matter how sophisticated it may be - does not engage to the extent that film does.

Had the eminent filmmakers behind Samsara been able to go back to the negative and strike a small number of 70mm prints, this would have added another dimension to the picture; it would have been the full experience. Who knows; it might still be possible.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-15-2012, 08:16 AM:

It is impossible to say that Samsara at 4K looks as good as 70mm since one is not afforded a comparison. Based on strict numbers, the statement is false. 4K is approximately the resolution of 35mm 1.85. As such, an EK print in 35mm should have looked as good or better than the 4K version. A properly struck 70mm print should have substantially more information on it than the 4K presentation. The 70mm print should have a greater color gamut too. But again, without a comparison, the statement, on its own, has no basis.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-15-2012, 10:38 AM:

quote: Paul Gordon
Deluxe in Toronto shut their lab down a few months back. Vision Global out of Montreal is doing all their release prints.

Interesting. We have no more affiliation with 35mm houses at the office, all have long since converted, but the last prints I saw were the worst I'd ever seen and they were coming from Deluxe Toronto, which I was under the impression was the only lab still making release prints. Who is supplying the bulk of 35mm prints for the theaters that have not yet converted?

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 10-15-2012, 11:42 AM:

In Canada its Vision Global and Technicolor in Montreal, though Technicolor is shutting down very very soon. I think thats it.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 10-15-2012, 01:19 PM:

Deluxe Hollywood is still printing film, and AFAIK is supplying the bulk of 35mm release prints for the North American market.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-16-2012, 12:37 AM:

At least they were better than Deluxe Canada, but it is clear the quality has dropped to nothing based upon the last 35mm prints I saw.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 10-22-2012, 12:44 AM:

quote:
Fear not, I saw The Master very recently in a superb 70mm presentation and rest assured that it blows even the flawless 8K>4K restoration of Lawrence of Arabia out of the water!

I have always been a really big proponent of 70mm presentations, but I saw "The Master" in 70mm at the Ziegfeld in NYC and the print had positive dirt on it from end to end and it was also not projected with enough light. And the print was only 7 days old when I saw it. The image was crisp, but except for those few scenes near the end where he drives off in the car, there were no great landscape shots that really warranted 70mm (and it was 1.85, not 2.2). I doubt that anyone who saw the print that I saw thought that 70mm was superior to either 35mm or a normal digital presentation. It was incredibly disappointing. But assuming they scan from the 70mm, I'm sure the Blu-ray will look great.

I don't know whether the dirt was a lab problem or whether someone dropped the film on the way to the platter, but if that's the way film is going to be handled because of problems in the lab or because of the lack of trained personnel in the booth, then we're better off with digital. You'd think I was watching a 30 year old print.

If your print was in great condition, which I'm guessing it was from your description, then I have to assume there was a problem in the theatre. Which would also be a shame because some of the best presentations I've ever seen were at the Ziegfeld.

Posted by Derek Young (Member # 7160) on 10-22-2012, 03:55 AM:

Hi Brian,
Can you say where you saw the 70mm screening.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-22-2012, 06:32 AM:

Thanks Derek, have replied via PM, and will confine comments about other films to their respective threads.

Apparently there were also some picture corrections made during the DI process for Samsara (removal of extraneous items in some shots, selective colour changes).